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Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators. (Read 5635 times)

Started by Flowrellik, September 30, 2014, 06:02:40 pm
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Flowrellik

Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#1  September 30, 2014, 06:02:40 pm
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Alright. Seeing how this is literally ticking me off and many others, its come to my attention make the people alert of whats going on.
So Instead of derailing other posts I am taking this discussion to here.
Recently, Sennou-Room, a Mugen creator from Japan, had his characters and blog taken down. At first I thought this would be a sham like any other crappy Copyright takedowns as means of trolling, but seeing 9 and a few others go down.....Something is definately wrong here.
I don't see the reason why Ecole would do such a thing to a good community that is using their sprites and works NONPROFITLY besides the means
of and I quote "Self-Pride".
Of course its enough about my end. I would like to hear/read your thoughts and opinions on this matter.
(and don't lock this/delete this or move this to a different location as this is affecting M.U.G.E.N. Thank you.)
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

SeraphicAngel

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#2  September 30, 2014, 06:04:23 pm
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Ill just copy and paste what i said on Sennou's thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is utter bullshit, they need to be stopped.

They are ruining everything.

This BULLSHITY Group is using peoples fear of legal persecution to shut them down for their own DAMN personal gratification! I WONT STAND FOR THIS!

I am from Japan as well, but this is UNFORGIVABLE.

Copyright law being enforced here? Yea maybe but its not to THIS POINT.

Ecole...They believe in Justice with Copyright, they beleive it needs to be enforced no matter what. At first it was just UNIB, but now they're doing MB and anything else now. SELF-PRIDE/GRATIFICATION. They beleive their work needs to be THEIRS alone and NO Edits or 3rd party Creations (Even non-profit) should EXIST. And this in thus fufills their own SELF-GRATIFICATION of their views on copyright. Making THEM Feel good.

But what you guys need to be reminded of (or taught) is that "Japan" isnt like this, its only a select few people/groups. There are plenty of Japanese Copyrighted stuff that ISNT Heavily Copyrighted, Such as Touhou Music and Remixes of Songs. Ever see a Touhou song get taken down on Youtube? I haven't. Ever see remixes get taken down on Youtube? I haven't. I myself have uploaded SEVERAL Remixed Songs to Youtube (Official Remixes) And they don't even get a 3rd Party NOTIFICATION. Same with Touhou. There are THOUSANDS of Full Quality Touhou Songs on Youtube and i have never seen one go down unless used in a Copyrighted VISUAL Video.

Non-LARGE Record Production Music isn't heavily copyrighted. I have a Music Channel with some music on it from different Comikets that are fine.

Markpachi

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#3  September 30, 2014, 06:13:49 pm
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No offense, but what i'm seeing from you guys is an act of rebellion with ecole's actions. I've never seen an act of rebellion that had helped solve an issue. There will always be people in this world who are sensitive when it comes to their creations. Have you guys tried contacting them via e-mail? Maybe you guys could try explaining it calmly before lashing out.



SeraphicAngel

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#4  September 30, 2014, 06:18:53 pm
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Im not really lashing out or rebelling really.

I myself have been a victim to copyright claims (Wrong ones at that). So i apologize if i come off as "Rebellious"

Contacting them by email? U think it would do any good? They don't seem the type to listen to reason. Now u can say that im saying this without even trying, or that it sounds like im giving up before trying. And u may be right, but I honestly don't think "Emailing" Them would do any good. They went so far as to directly take down peoples blogs and stop them from sharing/producing work they've spent months - years on and put their own valuable time into.

Reminds me abit of Mysterious Army. They are a Vietnamese Hacker group that took down 3Dgundam, a Chinese UKWXP Modding Site. Why? Probably because it violated Gundam's Copyright. That or they just pissed them off for some reason.

My point is, these people don't listen to Emails from random people. All they seem to care about are their instant-gratifications of enforcing "Copyright" in order to make Themselves feel better and keep their work the ONLY of its kind in the world.

Umezono

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#5  September 30, 2014, 06:19:53 pm
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you guys are acting so entitled to other peoples work lol. its almost hypocritical someone would mention gratification when the only reason people are whining is because they want to have other peoples mb characters. i actually think its perfectly fine for ecole to do this if they want. mugens open source but that doesnt make the stuff were using open source. if they want it down they have every right to.
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Niitris

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#6  September 30, 2014, 06:20:18 pm
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Well, it is their property; regardless of how one may feel, they have every right to do this. Sucks because I was just getting into MB and the likes too.

I'm just glad that other companies are a bit more flexible with their IPs and such. :)

Markpachi

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#7  September 30, 2014, 06:24:23 pm
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I suggest e-mailing them. Who knows. If someone explains to them properly that Mugen is just for fun, and that a lot of people pour out their heart and soul at making content with their work, and that they should consider it as fan-art, they might actually reconsider and give Mugen a free pass.



SeraphicAngel

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#8  September 30, 2014, 06:27:00 pm
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Uhhh, Ume...No.

Idc if i get my hands on other peoples work or not. I really don't.

Yes they have every right to "Enforce" copyright on their work.

But they could at least ask nicely :P

Joking aside, im serious. I just don't like to see people "Forced" to get rid of something they worked hard on. I myself...have been a major victim in this. 12 youtube accounts with 400+ videos, years of work. Gone. Due to unjust copyright claims which was legal under Fair Use. As i was not making a profit from it.

No, im not mad at them for really enforcing their rights, but what im mad at is that they seem to be "Forcing it down our Throats" and saying "Hey! You cant do that! We're gonna shut you down without even asking nicely! Here! Have a Copyright Notice! Do it again and we'll sue you for X Amount of money!"

Thats, what im mad at. Unjust? Maybe...Selfish? Perhaps.

But, its how i feel. And im entitled to my opinion on this matter.

@Markpachi, maybe. I still don't think it will do any good but i'll give it a whirl.

Markpachi

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#9  September 30, 2014, 06:32:13 pm
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Also, about e-mailing them. If what you said about them is true, then you should choose your words carefully before sending it to them. I mean, if you were to send them an e-mail about it, you'll be representing Mugen as a whole community, and if you accidentally say something that they don't like, they might lock us up completely, and even worse, take legal actions.



SeraphicAngel

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#10  September 30, 2014, 06:34:11 pm
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I know, thanks for the reminder though.

Im careful with my words, i won't say anything stupid lol.

Niitris

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#11  September 30, 2014, 06:43:01 pm
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Umezono said, September 30, 2014, 06:19:53 pm
i actually think its perfectly fine for ecole to do this if they want.

Agree with the other stuff, but don't know about that part (although I'm speaking from an overall perspective). I mean, Mugen is also free advertising of sorts. Quite a few people here was introduced to KoF (and likely other obscure games) through Mugen. Ecole's stuff isn't exactly iconic or anything to that like (and I'm sure that's not what they're aiming for) but it's disappointing that people want to promote the things they like only to be told "NO" by the people who made it (again, they do have the final word and rightfully so). I can see where people would become frustrated and less supportive of them, especially if they're resorting to immediate legal threats to discourage people from doing something that's rather harmless (they may not think so of course).

Agreed, e-mail is the best course of action to take, though don't be surprised and/or offended if it doesn't garner the desired result.

SeraphicAngel

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#12  September 30, 2014, 06:49:16 pm
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Markpachi

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#13  September 30, 2014, 06:50:16 pm
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Hold on, I think I get why they're mad.


People ripped their sprites. Sprites that Ecole paid people for.

People here used the sprites for Mugen.

Ecole assumes we're using their sprites without permission and/or using it for profit.



Is sprite considered illegal or not? And up to what extent is it to be considered illegal?



C.R.O.M Lando

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#14  September 30, 2014, 06:53:57 pm
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Hmmmm this is some real deal stuff to think about since I am making anime characters from various animes and some mangas. Dont want to spark a forest fire. Maybe I should stay low under the radar then as I have been lately. Def some stuff to think about if Ecole really upset or something. IDK.

SeraphicAngel

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#15  September 30, 2014, 06:55:31 pm
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Sprite Ripping is legal as long as you don't make a profit from it, at least, its not really enforced or said anywhere that its ILLEGAL.

And thats just it, they are "Assuming" that we are. You would THINK they would do their research before assuming these things. You'd really expect better from these people.

Markpachi

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#16  September 30, 2014, 07:05:16 pm
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They sure did their research seeing as they saw and discovered Mugen.



Niitris

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#17  September 30, 2014, 07:08:27 pm
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Another thing is that Ecole isn't a huge corporation. They generate less revenue (and have less ways of making money) the likes of Capcom/SNK/ASW and those guys. They would naturally be a bit more reluctant to let people use their stuff, free or otherwise.

C.R.O.M Lando said, September 30, 2014, 06:53:57 pm
Hmmmm this is some real deal stuff to think about since I am making anime characters from various animes and some mangas. Dont want to spark a forest fire.

In an industry where they allow people to sell doujinshi of Hinata/Bulma/Asuka/Haruhi... I wouldn't be worried about them suddenly targeting Mugen.

Besides, Hyper DBZ would've been struck down if that was the case.

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#18  September 30, 2014, 07:10:29 pm
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Markpachi said, September 30, 2014, 07:05:16 pm
They sure did their research seeing as they saw and discovered Mugen.
Mugen's not that obscure among companies that make fighting games, and I would guess that it's even less obscure to doujin companies (Ecole coming from the first Melty Blood and all when it was a doujin). But they don't always understand the details, see SNK who at first said don't use our stuff and then backtracked from the fan backlash alone.
Although I'm pretty sure it's not the first time Ecole or the Melty Blood guys pull that shit ? Shouldn't they know by now or are they just retarded ?
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Markpachi

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#19  September 30, 2014, 07:11:57 pm
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I meant them discovering the different authors of MB chars. Sorry for the misunderstanding.



Shwa

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#20  September 30, 2014, 07:12:52 pm
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It is the very first time, actually.
Shwa said, September 30, 2014, 06:59:19 pm
What puzzles me more about this is why the hell has Ecole taken so long to do this when the could've done it since Drowin's Kouma, which was like... what, over 8 years ago? ww
It has not happened even once until recently.

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#21  September 30, 2014, 07:16:05 pm
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They didn't actually force Mugen sites to shut down but I'm definitely sure they pressured Japanese Mugen creators before. At some point, several years ago, a lot of Japanese creators were saying "okay, they're asking, let's take our stuff down" for a while. That happened with Melty Blood creations and, I think... what was it, Queen of Hearts ? Both from French Bread.
That didn't hold.
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O Ilusionista

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#22  September 30, 2014, 07:18:08 pm
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Quote
Sprite Ripping is legal as long as you don't make a profit from it, at least, its not really enforced or said anywhere that its ILLEGAL.
This is not, technically, true.  Its, at least, a gray area. As Markpachi said, "Sprites that Ecole paid people for". The sprites are owned by the companies. Extract stuff from a copyright content and share it can be saw as illegal.

C.R.O.M Lando

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#23  September 30, 2014, 07:25:47 pm
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Yeah O llu that is what I thought as well . I was once told that if you buy the game, you only own the game as packaged...not the content inside of it. Some shyt like that I think it went.

Shwa

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#24  September 30, 2014, 07:26:14 pm
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DKDC said, September 30, 2014, 07:16:05 pm
They didn't actually force Mugen sites to shut down but I'm definitely sure they pressured Japanese Mugen creators before. At some point, several years ago, a lot of Japanese creators were saying "okay, they're asking, let's take our stuff down" for a while. That happened with Melty Blood creations and, I think... what was it, Queen of Hearts ?
That's the thing, though. Nobody got pressured over stopping MB conversions specifically. They had just... passively requested people should slow down over MB and QoH conversions (Furapan made QoH back when they were soft circle Watanabe) so they could actually get their games around, but nobody did and they had eventually stopped bothering. People figured it ended up being pointless outside of giving them good press, that their games were worth converting from.

Was more like
Quote
"guise stop"
"tell the others to stop making so many ken's then"
"well ok"
than whatever hostile takeover is happening now. lol

Jmorphman

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#25  September 30, 2014, 07:29:22 pm
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C.R.O.M Lando said, September 30, 2014, 07:25:47 pm
Yeah O llu that is what I thought as well . I was once told that if you buy the game, you only own the game as packaged...not the content inside of it. Some shyt like that I think it went.
You don't even own the game itself, technically,  you're merely leasing the right to experience their intellectual property, or some such nonsense. At least, that's what they consider to be the case.

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#26  September 30, 2014, 07:31:50 pm
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Shwa said, September 30, 2014, 07:26:14 pm
So... what does that little detail change ? They still tried it before and it didn't do them any good. Do they think it's a better idea now that they can pull legal weight, completely disregarding the fact that it's a retarded idea in the first place regardless of legal matters ?
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

C.R.O.M Lando

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#27  September 30, 2014, 07:33:25 pm
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Jmorphman said, September 30, 2014, 07:29:22 pm
C.R.O.M Lando said, September 30, 2014, 07:25:47 pm
Yeah O llu that is what I thought as well . I was once told that if you buy the game, you only own the game as packaged...not the content inside of it. Some shyt like that I think it went.
You don't even own the game itself, technically,  you're merely leasing the right to experience their intellectual property, or some such nonsense. At least, that's what they consider to be the case.
Yup so see why copyright laws on stuff is so crazy. lol.

Markpachi

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#28  September 30, 2014, 07:33:39 pm
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So this is just them being really angry at us for not listening to their slightly mellow way of cease and desist from before?



Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#29  September 30, 2014, 07:36:19 pm
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In reading that it makes me believe that the ones in charge are being immature about it.
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Shwa

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#30  September 30, 2014, 07:36:35 pm
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DKDC said, September 30, 2014, 07:31:50 pm
So... what does that little detail change ? They still tried it before and it didn't do them any good. Do they think it's a better idea now that they can pull legal weight, completely disregarding the fact that it's a retarded idea in the first place regardless of legal matters ?
The big difference is that they barely even tried back then, and that was between 2001 and 2003. They had not done so again and, despite ECOLE being a small company, ever since the official merger in 2005, they had not touched the MUGEN community nor seeked to shut anyone down. My point was that it came down as a surprise after so long of neither side of ECOLE/Furapan doing anything about it.

【RTC】MelvanaInChains

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#31  September 30, 2014, 07:38:07 pm
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....so what's their stance on combat echizen?

sooner or later, everybody puts up with xiangfei
project thread / obscure mugen wiki / tweeter for mugen stuff

Shwa

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#32  September 30, 2014, 07:39:11 pm
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old and busted probably lol
does anyone even remember death crimson

Umezono

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#33  September 30, 2014, 07:41:56 pm
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C.R.O.M Lando

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#34  September 30, 2014, 07:42:58 pm
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Ehhh I wouldnt think they would be pissed over old stuff being ripped...but rippin UNIB sprites...might be a shitstorm of pissed offnes cause its new material. IDK.

Margatroid

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#35  September 30, 2014, 07:47:38 pm
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SeraphicAngel said, September 30, 2014, 06:04:23 pm
Ever see a Touhou song get taken down on Youtube? I haven't. Ever see remixes get taken down on Youtube? I haven't. I myself have uploaded SEVERAL Remixed Songs to Youtube (Official Remixes) And they don't even get a 3rd Party NOTIFICATION. Same with Touhou. There are THOUSANDS of Full Quality Touhou Songs on Youtube and i have never seen one go down unless used in a Copyrighted VISUAL Video.
Several years ago I saw videos from Iron Attack , Crow's Claws, CYTOKINE & Demetori being taken down.

Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#36  September 30, 2014, 07:48:36 pm
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UNIB is understandable to a point. When did new stuff ever stop the world from ripping anyways.
But Melty Blood?
Also Anyone have the E-mail to Ecole?
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Roman55

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#37  September 30, 2014, 07:51:04 pm
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Alpaca-San

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#38  September 30, 2014, 07:53:42 pm
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Dammit when I saw this thread I was gonna ask about Combat Echizen

Vans said, January 15, 2014, 10:25:02 pm
I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.

Saikoro

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#39  September 30, 2014, 08:09:02 pm
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I quickly read through everything here. I'll sit with this more later to gage a more thoughtful reply.

So Sennou Room is getting touchy over somehing that is considered freeware/fan work to begin with?? I've seen countless contributors or project leaders get their panties twisted over something that's clearly non-profit. Even sprites that were initially commissioned were recycled at some point in the future. While I could see why someone would ultimately get a bit angry/touchy over some sprites and/or custom work, as far as I know Capcom and SNK have made it clear on their understanding that Mugen is like fanart. Just in the playable sense.

To take down an entire community (which was pretty popular as far as I know) is a bit far fetched and a sign of blowing something out of proportion. While I think it's somewhat ridiculous, I could see their point to some degree.

Mugen is and will always be fan art related. Why can't everyone get this through their head?? If the way these guys are reacting happened everywhere, deviantart wouldn't exist. Fan fiction would be illegal and Capcom would sue themselves.
All of your Mugen Portrait needs may be found HERE.

Unstabler said, January 31, 2013, 04:11:33 pm
I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
GarchompMatt said, September 17, 2013, 12:37:33 am
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.

Shwa

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#40  September 30, 2014, 08:10:58 pm
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Saikoro said, September 30, 2014, 08:09:02 pm
So Sennou Room is getting touchy over somehing that is considered freeware/fan work to begin with??
No he's not.
He directly complied with ECOLE's demands.

Great job reading through.

Saikoro

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#41  September 30, 2014, 08:17:00 pm
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I told you I quickly skimmed!! :grrr:

I'm just getting the sense that the same argument of Mugen's fan content we've seen for ages still keeps popping up. My post is based off of that angle just as the initial post eludes to.
All of your Mugen Portrait needs may be found HERE.

Unstabler said, January 31, 2013, 04:11:33 pm
I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
GarchompMatt said, September 17, 2013, 12:37:33 am
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.

Niitris

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#42  September 30, 2014, 08:18:54 pm
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Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#43  September 30, 2014, 08:21:31 pm
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seriously guys, do they not know of the Fair Use copyright law?
Fair Use Section of the Copyright Law clearly states that any copyrighted material may be used in any form as long as its for a non-profit project.
What we are doing is Non-profit. It does not matter what country you are from, they must abide to this law no matter how bad they think is killing off their franchise (Which is not btw).
This is the one thing that by quote from my sis (SeraphicAngel)
"a section many companies seem to forget exists.
Yeeaa surre they have a right to ASK u not to or ask u to take it down, but under fair use you are LEGALLY allowed to use it and deny their request as long as you aren't making any kind of profit from it."
Therefore Ecole's "Demands", no matter how threatening, can be denied, and they cannot do anything about it. This law is International, and proven to work against copyright claims.
In short: Sennou, 9, IQS, POTS, Jmorph, My neighbor, Sis, Even your CAT If he/she has a mind and thumbs can still do mugen in PEACE Without these companies to fret about it.
The best form of action when dealing with this is to post Fair Use against them.
www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
In the prideful words of my Dad, PEACE OUUUT!





I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Niitris

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#44  September 30, 2014, 08:30:56 pm
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I'm no expert in copywrite regulations, but I don't think Fair Use is that simple.

Anything that damages the integrity of an IP can be taken to court (doesn't matter if it's non-profit). Then there's the possibility that fan-work can infringe on the market value of the original.

Markpachi

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#45  September 30, 2014, 08:31:50 pm
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Are you sure that version of the the Copyright Law applies, or is the same as Japan's?



LurkerSupreme

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#46  September 30, 2014, 08:33:06 pm
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How does U.S. law apply to Japanese creators dealing with a Japanese company? I can't blame them for taking down their stuff.

SeraphicAngel

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#47  September 30, 2014, 08:35:51 pm
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Its not a US exclusive law, its the same in Japan. Here, Fair Use still applies. I have gotten many claims and everytime i used Fair Use as my Counter Claim, the Claim got dropped and I was allowed to keep my content.

Shaquto

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#48  September 30, 2014, 08:41:15 pm
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Saikoro said, September 30, 2014, 08:09:02 pm
I quickly read through everything here. I'll sit with this more later to gage a more thoughtful reply.

So Sennou Room is getting touchy over somehing that is considered freeware/fan work to begin with?? I've seen countless contributors or project leaders get their panties twisted over something that's clearly non-profit. Even sprites that were initially commissioned were recycled at some point in the future. While I could see why someone would ultimately get a bit angry/touchy over some sprites and/or custom work, as far as I know Capcom and SNK have made it clear on their understanding that Mugen is like fanart. Just in the playable sense.

To take down an entire community (which was pretty popular as far as I know) is a bit far fetched and a sign of blowing something out of proportion. While I think it's somewhat ridiculous, I could see their point to some degree.

Mugen is and will always be fan art related. Why can't everyone get this through their head?? If the way these guys are reacting happened everywhere, deviantart wouldn't exist. Fan fiction would be illegal and Capcom would sue themselves.

amen to that!
RALSH.
First Lt. Ding said, October 19, 2014, 02:06:48 pm
I think the only H-Character I ever got was that Black Raiya edit and she had a super that forced the foe to suck her cock while classical music played.

Umezono

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#49  September 30, 2014, 08:46:11 pm
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um no. "the Japanese Act does have a set of detailed provisions specifying fair use in particular circumstances such as reproduction for private use or reproduction in libraries or quotations, but it has never contained a general fair use defense such as in Article 107 of the U.S. Copyright Act. This has caused a lot of difficulties in dealing with copyright"

anyone crying fair use is spouting minsinformation
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-Red-

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#50  September 30, 2014, 08:47:30 pm
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Everything Ecole does is shit. Good riddance.

Move to a better game or company and code their characters for mugen. We'll all win.
pls

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#51  September 30, 2014, 08:48:55 pm
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Umezono said, September 30, 2014, 08:46:11 pm
um no. "the Japanese Act does have a set of detailed provisions specifying fair use in particular circumstances such as reproduction for private use or reproduction in libraries or quotations, but it has never contained a general fair use defense such as in Article 107 of the U.S. Copyright Act. This has caused a lot of difficulties in dealing with copyright"

anyone crying fair use is spouting minsinformation
Relevance-related counter-claim :
doujins.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

SeraphicAngel

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#52  September 30, 2014, 08:53:08 pm
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Is it in ur nature to reject everything people says Ume?

I am speaking from many personal experiences with Japanese Companies and Fair Use. They have always backed down when my counter claim was Fair Use.

If the Fair Use Law didnt apply in Japan, my own country I might add, then why do they always back down?

Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#53  September 30, 2014, 08:54:47 pm
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Yes that said copyright law, whether made in U.S. or not, applies to everyone, Japan included, even with circumstances you stated Ume.
Just because they have pride and honor does not mean that they should go as far as do takedowns by force without any regard to human rights, even if they are the original creators or not.
The fact that Ecole didn't show any means of backing down shows arrogance on their part that as a company they do not care about the community that they create games for and only care about themselves.
Seriously, something as a forceful takedown to a FAN-MADE PROJECT ON NON-PROFITABLE GROUNDS is just about as ridiculous as seeing an Idol Group's Manager Suing the Fans for Dating the Idols, and guess what? IT HAPPENED REGARDLESS.
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Bastard Mami

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#54  September 30, 2014, 08:58:49 pm
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the amount of work used is also a factor regarding fair use, even assuming it applies, a naked drawing of line is not gonna hrut the company the same way a perfectly accurate replica of line that plays the same way as she does in her original game, just like a news program airing a scene of a movie to comment on it is not gonna hurt movie ticket sales the same as a tv channel airing the whole movie under fair use.


DKDC said, September 30, 2014, 08:48:55 pm
Relevance-related counter-claim :
doujins.

that would be shooting themselves in the foot.

Markpachi

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#55  September 30, 2014, 08:59:47 pm
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Hey, to be fair, there are Mugen pricks that sell compilations that MIGHT contain MB characters. Maybe that's why Ecole freaked?



Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#56  September 30, 2014, 09:02:26 pm
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Selling Mugen Compilations??
Ok, THAT is new to me. Never have I seen a MUGEN Full game, let alone a compile, be sold.
I've seen them be Moleboxed mind you but this? Nope.
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Laharl

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#57  September 30, 2014, 09:02:44 pm
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I never thought of that it is true idiots try to cash in on things they didn't even make and are not even allowed to make money on. If that was the case I could understand but they should know by now the entire mugen community is not like that. You would think they would C&D those idiots rather than ppl who are using mugen what its meant for. FREE USE.

Something else a friend of mine mentioned they took down the netcode for MB. Idk if this is relevant but according to him it happened recently.
Cybaster said, May 21, 2013, 04:37:37 pm
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
Star Fucker said:
Do you often run naked in the streets screaming "YOU STUPID ASS FAGGOT NIGGA BITCHES WHY YOU NO HELP ME WITH MY MATH HOMEWORK !!!!???!!!!"

Red Comet Tyson

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#58  September 30, 2014, 09:05:05 pm
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regarding the take downs, Japanese police doesn't fuck around so i understand why the authors flew while they can 

64-bit-chu

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#59  September 30, 2014, 09:07:11 pm
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...and this, ladies and gentlemen, is why 9/10 people could care less about copyright. Because nowadays it's just a massive, overpowered system of criminalizing beginning artists, censoring opposing viewpoints, eliminating interpretation, and just outright shutting people up. Even the first government-instituted copyright law (in England, the Statute of Anne) was just used as a tool to censor books the British Crown disagreed with.

It's quite disgusting.

Markpachi

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#60  September 30, 2014, 09:07:58 pm
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What are you talking about.



Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#61  September 30, 2014, 09:09:37 pm
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Still, If they really wanted to take down anything, they would have stopped the people that are making a profit out of selling mugen, NOT THE CREATORS THEMSELVES. Despite them not knowing that their works are involved does not mean they can just take the original author down, for the author did not agree to any and all means of having the fan works made for profitable purpose.
I agree with 64-bit. The Copyright system is by far the most abused, and outright corrupt system ever dispatched in human history.
Hell Thomas Edison stole patents and copyrighted them with HIS NAME on it and got away with it Scott-free.
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Red Comet Tyson

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#62  September 30, 2014, 09:11:14 pm
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Flowrellik said, September 30, 2014, 09:02:26 pm
Selling Mugen Compilations??
Ok, THAT is new to me. Never have I seen a MUGEN Full game, let alone a compile, be sold.
I've seen them be Moleboxed mind you but this? Nope.
there was an asshat that spent like $300 trying to get get a compilation trough greenlight

Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#63  September 30, 2014, 09:15:59 pm
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...Thats just plain Retarded..
I'm very sorry if I sound direct but does he know that he cannot make any sort of profit using Mugen, even WITH compilations?
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Markpachi

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#64  September 30, 2014, 09:19:54 pm
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There will always be this one guy that just wants to fuck everything up for everyone else.



Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#65  September 30, 2014, 09:26:31 pm
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Yeah. I've seen this before in the past.
The outcomes were....not likable. Some cases the motherfucker found ways of evading the problem only to be caught when the situation is too late.
Still, this doesn't mean that we all have to suffer for one man's mistake.
I know for a fact that this community so far alongside many others really do no harm and just go with the flow for what we enjoy. Same can be said for the very people that choose to blog their works, but that doesn't mean we take profit from it. We share it freely to the world with open arms, not open wallets.
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#66  September 30, 2014, 09:44:34 pm
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Flowrellik said, September 30, 2014, 09:02:26 pm
Selling Mugen Compilations??
Ok, THAT is new to me. Never have I seen a MUGEN Full game, let alone a compile, be sold.
I've seen them be Moleboxed mind you but this? Nope.
There was a thread here where people could report Mugen compilations being sold on sites like eBay and stuff, to send letters warning the site that this item is illegal. They call it a crossover game and claim it's official and there will always be a few people who have no idea what Mugen is and will get interested ; meanwhile the guy who does it runs little risk of anything.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#67  September 30, 2014, 09:52:41 pm
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ok, THAT Is a major problem.
But I still do not see why Ecole would do takedowns on other authors when they should be aiming their sights on the people who are selling mugen like its a goldmine.
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Umezono

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#68  September 30, 2014, 10:24:37 pm
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SeraphicAngel said, September 30, 2014, 08:53:08 pm
Is it in ur nature to reject everything people says Ume?

I am speaking from many personal experiences with Japanese Companies and Fair Use. They have always backed down when my counter claim was Fair Use.

If the Fair Use Law didnt apply in Japan, my own country I might add, then why do they always back down?
no, its in my nature to challenge wrong stuff

your counter claims had to do with music im assuming? fair use works in different ways.

fair use is a law with several constraints, thats have to do with the scope of the work you ar eputting out. and yes, it far more restrictive than US fair use law. so yes, flowrellik us fair use policies DO NOT apply in japan.

furthermore, to act lie these people are tyrants for trying to protect something theyve invested in, is the height of entitlement and childishness.

yes, high quality MB characters thrown in a compilation would be an incentive not to buy the real thing.

no, this si not legally "fan-art," some companies choose to see it that way. but it is not. most mugen characters are directly ripping assets somebody paid for.

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Put this on the profile of people who are known/wanted terrorists
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Shwa

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#69  September 30, 2014, 10:41:16 pm
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Umezono said, September 30, 2014, 10:24:37 pm
yes, high quality MB characters thrown in a compilation would be an incentive not to buy the real thing.
Debatable.
That aside, it's not like anyone CAN buy Current Code.
The only way you could even legally own it is via Carnival Phantasm's Season 3 box, which costs over $200 now.

That's ECOLE's fault for bundling it as a "bonus" for a DVD boxset when most only bought that boxset for Melty Blood. There is no seperate release and the game is pretty much impossible to own now unless you're a collector with pockets full of cash and insanely good connections. It had, what, less than 500 copies or something?

You can't really use that argument when the only way to access the already released consumer version of the game is by pirating it. Otherwise you'd have to play that in arcades. It's pretty shitty.

-Red-

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#70  September 30, 2014, 11:08:26 pm
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What happened to all of you who were saying "That's just a small version for a more bigger future standalone release with extras like the boss rush and other console-like features. That's why that content is still there unused!"? Years later and we're still unable to buy the damn game, if even just digitally :|
pls

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#71  September 30, 2014, 11:27:03 pm
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Don't joke about it, maybe it's because of those evil mugeners that Ecole lost monies and was never able to finish that complete version >:(
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#72  September 30, 2014, 11:34:01 pm
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You mean the ones that sell mugen for profit right?
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#73  September 30, 2014, 11:46:14 pm
  • ******
joke
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Jesuszilla

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#74  September 30, 2014, 11:56:13 pm
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[MFG]maximilianjenus said, September 30, 2014, 08:58:49 pm
DKDC said, September 30, 2014, 08:48:55 pm
Relevance-related counter-claim :
doujins.

that would be shooting themselves in the foot.

Isn't that pretty much what they're doing, though?

[MFG]maximilianjenus said, September 30, 2014, 08:58:49 pm
the amount of work used is also a factor regarding fair use, even assuming it applies, a naked drawing of line is not gonna hrut the company the same way a perfectly accurate replica of line that plays the same way as she does in her original game

How close ARE the MB creations out there ACTUALLY to the real thing, anyway? Last I checked, even ⑨'s stuff had noticeable problems to MB players, including combos that just shouldn't be possible. As Shwa said, that's debatable, as he would be clearly far from the actual thing. If you're a company and that's any sort of threat to you, you should probably reconsider how you're doing things.

And also going off of what Shwa said, I'd have to agree that the biggest problem with their sales is that they're not actually making their content widely available through reasonable means.
Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 12:13:29 am by Jesuszilla

Bastard Mami

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#75  October 01, 2014, 12:22:25 am
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yeah, the logics that apply to most gaming companies who did fighitng games back in the 90s and became profitable back then sadly don't apply with this one becasue they only became big the past decade and already have a history with mugen.

Flowrellik said, September 30, 2014, 09:52:41 pm
ok, THAT Is a major problem.
But I still do not see why Ecole would do takedowns on other authors when they should be aiming their sights on the people who are selling mugen like its a goldmine.

because it's easier to attack problems at the root. let's say that minors buying alcohol is illegal, so rather than punishing any minors that you find whom have bought alcohol you instead start carding the people who buy alcohol to checdk if they are minors or not. you are going to inconvenience a fuckton of people who buy alcohol and are not minors but that helps a  lot insolvnig the problem.

Shwa

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#76  October 01, 2014, 12:24:05 am
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Jesuszilla said, September 30, 2014, 11:56:13 pm
How close ARE the MB creations out there ACTUALLY to the real thing, anyway? Last I checked, even ⑨'s stuff had noticeable problems to MB players, including combos that just shouldn't be possible.
It depends which version of MB they were shooting for, really.
Spoiler: Off the top of my head (click to see content)

-Red-

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#77  October 01, 2014, 12:26:04 am
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Dude now I understand why Ecole doesn't want people to do shit for mugen related to their games. The people behind the Melty Blood conversions are so bad at coding it makes their product look really really bad.

People are so bad at coding companies are starting to shut us down. This isn't going to end well!
pls

Magical Girl Amber

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#78  October 01, 2014, 12:40:34 pm
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I wonder if my character's are at risk. Though I see Rajaa's and several other author's MB creations are still around.

Dissidia

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#79  October 01, 2014, 08:37:10 pm
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That does make me wonder if Ecole's rulings apply to Western creators.

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#80  October 01, 2014, 08:54:01 pm
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There's no "ruling" from Ecole. And if you mean who they may want to bully, even last time it was only Japanese creators, and this time seems to be the same so far.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Kyoudou Senna

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#81  October 01, 2014, 08:58:00 pm
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Magical Girl Amber said, October 01, 2014, 12:40:34 pm
I wonder if my character's are at risk. Though I see Rajaa's and several other author's MB creations are still around.

You, The_None and Rajaa apparently are safe.

There's no 100% guarantee, but at least, I doubt Ecole looks at the western creators.
PotS said:
That they don't just restrict themselves to my style.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

The Alchemist's sound workshop. Newage Mugen

Taybear

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#82  October 01, 2014, 09:01:52 pm
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I'm pretty sure they do look at them, but seeing as they're not from Japan, and I'm positive everywhere else has different laws and such when pertaining to situations like this, there's nothing they can really do about it.

Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#83  October 01, 2014, 09:07:44 pm
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so this means that even if said japanese authors are bullied, they can just dust it off and do it all over?
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Taybear

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#84  October 01, 2014, 09:17:54 pm
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Well, yes and no. Realistically, they can do what they want. Once it's on the internet, someone from a western country/place/etc could easily host it and if they don't look at/care about western creators, they'll basically never know if the actual creator is Japanese or not. But that's too much just to get a character online, don't you think? :P Besides I could be completely wrong and they could be planning to go after the western creators too, but they haven't yet and they've only ever gone after eastern creators so I don't think they'll ever come after a western one.

Laharl

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#85  October 03, 2014, 07:01:09 pm
  • ****
  • Mother Fucking Money!
    • www.mugenfreeforall.com
so uh turns out sennou found out the original C&D he got was NOT from Ecole themselves. I would also like to point out the others going down were probably the same crap and it was mostly pagefreet. so in other words IT WAS A FAKE. Whoever was being a dick to get these offline got their wish for a short time now all the Japanese creators are talking according to google translate stuff I used (yeah I know its hazy but its what I got out of some of these). They are putting their stuff back up on a new host.
Cybaster said, May 21, 2013, 04:37:37 pm
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
Star Fucker said:
Do you often run naked in the streets screaming "YOU STUPID ASS FAGGOT NIGGA BITCHES WHY YOU NO HELP ME WITH MY MATH HOMEWORK !!!!???!!!!"

Dissidia

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#86  October 03, 2014, 09:09:05 pm
  • ***
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    • dissidia.mugenflowzone.com

  • Online
"ZUN" vs. RicePigeon all over again.

Saikoro

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#87  October 03, 2014, 09:19:54 pm
  • ******
  • Portrait Prodigy EX+
    • mugenguild.com/forum/topics/saikoros-high-resolution-mugen-portraits-fatal-fury-full-set-145724.0.html
Laharl said, October 03, 2014, 07:01:09 pm
so uh turns out sennou found out the original C&D he got was NOT from Ecole themselves. I would also like to point out the others going down were probably the same crap and it was mostly pagefreet. so in other words IT WAS A FAKE. Whoever was being a dick to get these offline got their wish for a short time now all the Japanese creators are talking according to google translate stuff I used (yeah I know its hazy but its what I got out of some of these). They are putting their stuff back up on a new host.

What!? That's fucked up. Who would want to do such a thing that would create such a ruckus?? Oh that's right, idiots with nothing else to do.

It's also relieving that they're migrating to a new host. While I never really visited that site often, it was good to know it was there if I should ever have needed to go back.
All of your Mugen Portrait needs may be found HERE.

Unstabler said, January 31, 2013, 04:11:33 pm
I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
GarchompMatt said, September 17, 2013, 12:37:33 am
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.

★~~♥❤~Λ♍Ї-sӆn~❤♥~~★

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#88  October 04, 2014, 06:06:56 am
  • ***
  • グーグル翻訳し、最高のイングリッシュ·ジェネレータです
    • Canada
    • amidweiz.webs.com/
Laharl said, October 03, 2014, 07:01:09 pm
so uh turns out sennou found out the original C&D he got was NOT from Ecole themselves. I would also like to point out the others going down were probably the same crap and it was mostly pagefreet. so in other words IT WAS A FAKE. Whoever was being a dick to get these offline got their wish for a short time now all the Japanese creators are talking according to google translate stuff I used (yeah I know its hazy but its what I got out of some of these). They are putting their stuff back up on a new host.

Lol this has been the second time this has happened, so to troll the mugen community all you have to do is make mugen complimations and false C&D orders.
Alpaca-San said, August 29, 2014, 02:18:34 am
Let me put it this way: BloodStorm is designed and programmed better than most characters in MUGEN. Let that sink in for a moment

My music looping thread

Japanese Jesus

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#89  October 04, 2014, 06:10:35 am
  • ****
  • Umezono's stud muffin.
    • Canada

Niitris

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#90  October 04, 2014, 06:45:45 am
  • *****
    • USA
    • niitris.tumblr.com

ink

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#91  October 04, 2014, 02:01:06 pm
  • ****
  • inktrebuchet
    • USA
    • s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/inktrebuchet/?
It makes sence...

Think about it, you can download characters that are accurate to the original game or enhanced, FOR FREE.

Wouldn't you be pissed as be the small company that did all the leg work?

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#92  October 04, 2014, 02:13:25 pm
  • ******
no
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Bastard Wolf

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#93  October 04, 2014, 03:33:36 pm
  • ******
  • Does this looks like the face of mercy?
DKDC said, September 30, 2014, 07:10:29 pm
(Ecole coming from the first Melty Blood and all when it was a doujin). But they don't always understand the details, see SNK who at first said don't use our stuff and then backtracked from the fan backlash alone.
Although I'm pretty sure it's not the first time Ecole or the Melty Blood guys pull that shit ? Shouldn't they know by now or are they just retarded ?
IIRC ecole was involved with melty blood when act cadenza came out.  i do think they did what shwa said about slowing down a bit. but what i do remmber is that some japanese creator were preassured to remove the sounds from their character so some old MB chars had no .snd file

but that was either resolved or ignored.

now why are they making a big deal now that no-one cares about melty blood is beyond me. oh well
Laharl said, October 03, 2014, 07:01:09 pm

oh well that's a relief. it reminds me of that guy who would mark mugen content as CP to have it taken down from file sharing sites... who was it again?
Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 03:45:08 pm by Bastard Wolf

ink

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#94  October 04, 2014, 03:35:39 pm
  • ****
  • inktrebuchet
    • USA
    • s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/inktrebuchet/?

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#95  October 04, 2014, 03:52:59 pm
  • ******
ink said, October 04, 2014, 03:35:39 pm
DKDC said, October 04, 2014, 02:13:25 pm
no
Well then, you must be a very rare selfless and generous saint of some kind.
Hardly. It's just that you're not getting how things work.
In a nutshell, you don't get sued if you cut and rearrange pieces of a comic or manga to make your own story, at least as long as you don't sell it.
Before you get sued, you'd have to start remaking a significant part of the original game. Even if you recreate all the character cast (and I'm not even talking about someone magically being 100% faithful, which just doesn't happen in Mugen), it's still nowhere close to the original game.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 03:58:19 pm by DKDC

C.R.O.M Lando

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#96  October 04, 2014, 06:13:09 pm
  • **
  • What did the 5 fingers say to the face? SMAAACCCK!
Dont know if folks saw this before but it seriously explains copyright laws in pretty much broadscale. Its something I am even taking into account for my own projects community wise and ones that are not.
http://chrisoatley.com/fan-art/
Check vid cause thats the meat and bones of it all explained thus far.
Hope this helps how explanations and fine line details of sorts for us fan artists wether paid or free share.
Kinda scary thing I guess.

ink

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#97  October 04, 2014, 08:11:35 pm
  • ****
  • inktrebuchet
    • USA
    • s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/inktrebuchet/?
DKDC said, October 04, 2014, 03:52:59 pm
ink said, October 04, 2014, 03:35:39 pm
DKDC said, October 04, 2014, 02:13:25 pm
no
Well then, you must be a very rare selfless and generous saint of some kind.
Hardly. It's just that you're not getting how things work.
In a nutshell, you don't get sued if you cut and rearrange pieces of a comic or manga to make your own story, at least as long as you don't sell it.
Before you get sued, you'd have to start remaking a significant part of the original game. Even if you recreate all the character cast (and I'm not even talking about someone magically being 100% faithful, which just doesn't happen in Mugen), it's still nowhere close to the original game.

I agree. I never said they had any grounds to sue anyone.

I said it makes sence that they would be pissed. They havent actually sued anyone...

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#98  October 04, 2014, 08:19:30 pm
  • ******
Okay, if you're talking about being pissed and not about suing, then I present the counter-claim that they would be flattered that people love their work and analyze it to the point of trying to reproduce it. If someone says he doesn't feel that way, then he must be terribly selfish and greedy.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

ink

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#99  October 04, 2014, 08:27:13 pm
  • ****
  • inktrebuchet
    • USA
    • s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/inktrebuchet/?
I guess in a world like that no one would feel used or ripped off but instead be flattered.

^thats just for arguments sake. I do agree with what you are saying for MYSELF but I know many people wouldn't feel this way.

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#100  October 04, 2014, 08:48:41 pm
  • ******
Then why did you call me rare selfless and a generous saint in a mocking tone if you agree
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

ink

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#101  October 04, 2014, 09:05:28 pm
  • ****
  • inktrebuchet
    • USA
    • s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/inktrebuchet/?
Obviously to answer back to you "no" comment.

My argument still stands. Most people don't like and are not flattered by others using work they have made. And nobody works hard on something in hopes that somebody else will run away with it.

Its that simple.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 09:18:53 pm by ink

DKDC

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#102  October 04, 2014, 09:17:56 pm
  • ******
ink said, October 04, 2014, 09:05:28 pm
Most people don't like and are not flattered by others using work they have made.
I disagree. I want proof. I posit that many commercial artists like fan arts.
ink said, October 04, 2014, 09:05:28 pm
If an artist is selling prints of his artwork, you get one and then make copies to hand out for free. Do you think the artist is happy?
Now that's a fundamentally different argument altogether, it has absolutely nothing to do with liking fanart of you work or not.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

ink

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#103  October 04, 2014, 09:21:19 pm
  • ****
  • inktrebuchet
    • USA
    • s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/inktrebuchet/?
At what point is it still fan art?

A lot of times the sprites don't change at all they are just packed different.

Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#104  October 04, 2014, 09:26:05 pm
  • ****
  • The Mad Paletter
can we get back on topic plz?
So far, my original thought of a troll doing this was correct, even though it appeared false.
It has come to my attention that something needs to be done to keep watch over which is official and which is troll.
I am happy this is fully resolved but we should also pay attention to whomever is sending all of this.
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Kyoudou Senna

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#105  October 04, 2014, 09:30:46 pm
  • ***
  • All I see is petals falling... like drops of blood
    • Mexico
    • Skype - alchemistofatlas
    • www.youtube.com/user/necro336336
Depends of the address.

Since the email address might be used only to troll and shit, and also depends if Sennou wants to reveal it. I could understand if he doesn't want to and move on with his life and doing more stuff on Mugen. So, let's not force him on this, ok?
PotS said:
That they don't just restrict themselves to my style.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

The Alchemist's sound workshop. Newage Mugen

Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#106  October 05, 2014, 12:35:00 am
  • ****
  • The Mad Paletter
I won't force him.
I'm just saying we should keep a lookout on who we're dealing with on these takedowns.
We won't know whether or not if it is the company that originally made the stuff used or just some idiot trolling his business because he/she has no life, but it is best to find out the emails and so forth on the ORIGINAL creators as a pre-caution.
Just saying.
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Ricepigeon

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#107  October 07, 2014, 05:56:32 pm
  • *****
  • Mega Klinklang confirmed
    • USA
    • ricepigeon.webs.com
So yeah, looks like a huge sigh of relief after all was said and done.

Bastard Wolf said, October 04, 2014, 03:33:36 pm
IIRC ecole was involved with melty blood when act cadenza came out.  i do think they did what shwa said about slowing down a bit. but what i do remmber is that some japanese creator were preassured to remove the sounds from their character so some old MB chars had no .snd file

but that was either resolved or ignored.

The way I heard it it supposedly started off with a full ban (much like with Queen of Hearts), then they eventually allowed only the sprites (hence the lack of snd, I even remember a few MB creations using sounds from other games just to compensate), and then ultimately "full permission", but, as you said, I don't know if that was because they explicitly gave the okay or if it was because people stopped caring, but I do recall hearing the former as the reason at one point.

Dissidia said, October 03, 2014, 09:09:05 pm
"ZUN" vs. RicePigeon all over again.

I wish I was joking when I said I still have nightmares about that, even if its rare nowadays.

<<-- Updated 09/14/14
Alpaca-San said, February 09, 2014, 07:44:05 pm
You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.

Ricepigeon

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#108  October 10, 2014, 10:46:43 pm
  • *****
  • Mega Klinklang confirmed
    • USA
    • ricepigeon.webs.com

<<-- Updated 09/14/14
Alpaca-San said, February 09, 2014, 07:44:05 pm
You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.

Flowrellik

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#109  October 10, 2014, 10:57:45 pm
  • ****
  • The Mad Paletter
OH WTF!
Seriously, this has to stop.
I'm not Crazy...I'm just Mentally not-ill enough....

Jesuszilla

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#110  October 10, 2014, 11:00:05 pm
  • ******
  • I'm a fuffy.
    • USA
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  • Online
yeah people really need to read and ask others first before they do anything.

Kohaku being a Western author really has no excuse.

Watta

Re: Ecole's Takedown on japanese mugen creators.
#111  October 12, 2014, 08:08:33 pm
  • *****
  • School.
    • Greenland
    • Skype - wattawright
    • mugencoder.com/authors/view/watta
Actually, people sell mugen full game compilations in pirated game CD's here. It's how I discovered mugen. But considering that this is in Bangladesh I doubt Ecole or any game company will give a shit. Just saying this because, though it's not common, I have seen mugen being sold in stores more than a few occasions. They usually label them something like "DRAGON BALL Z HYPER 2012 FIGHTING EDITION" with some random DBZ art on the cover :P
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