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Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay 7-15-16 (Read 72355 times)

Started by Odb718, August 20, 2014, 01:01:31 pm
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Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay 7-15-16
New #1  August 20, 2014, 01:01:31 pm
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I've edited Slenderman's Ermac
I think the work Sean Altly and Slenderman have put into that character is amazing.

DOWNLOADS UPDATED ON 7/15/16 7/18/16  Host-A  SendSpace
or right click and save as HERE

NEW AS OF 7/15/16
Ermac has Air Hado Energyballs.
Widescreen Hado Energyballs bug is squashed.  7/18/16 - Now with working Ultras!
Ermac's overhead weapon updated to be more impact-full. Other small tweaks. 
7/18/16 - Edited the ultra bg not to end until the ultra hado ball is gone.

NEW AS OF 5/4/16
Ermac has a basic AI system in place. You'll see he's a lot tougher than before. The "fireball" now has a spark for when it hits other things. Small visual tweaks.

NEW AS OF 4/26/16
I've recently edited Sub Zero and Scorpion, and both had an overhead weapon attack. So I made Ermac have one too. Other than that there wont be any drastic edits you'll notice, just internal edits that make Ermac work better. The new basic attack is worth the download. It increases the amount of combos by a bit.

I've added a bunch of sprites. Mainly to create a 6 button Ermac. He has all 18 basic attacks, and a few directionals.
All of Slenderman's specials have remained in, but I've expanded upon them. All except the force push.

The fireball has 3 speeds. LP moves the slowest but Ermac recovers the fastest from it. HP flies the fastest but Ermac has the most recovery time.

The Levitation move is now performed by doing Down, Down, punch. All 3 punches raise to the same height. LP and MP will make Ermac body slam down. HP cancels out of the move. Ermac regains control and can perform air moves while falling. Each Kick button will perform the dive kick. The Teleportation move can still be performed while levitating. You can also hold forward or backward to move Ermac around.

The Teleportation move is now 6 teleportation moves... but really it's just 3. LP performs the basic ground teleportation. MP performs the basic air teleportation. HP Performs a higher air teleportation. Each button press can be performed both in the air and on the ground. Giving the illusion of 6 moves.

The Force Push has remained the same, except it can be performed by doing D,DF,F with all 3 kick buttons.

The Force Slam is performed by doing D,DB,B with all 3 kick buttons. LK puts the attack in the usual spot. MK is about double the distance. HK is about triple the distance. If P2 is standing in the far corner he wont be hit unless he's very oversized.

The Ultras have been given a little bit of a make over. I've added my basic portrait slide in/fade away but with an update for Ermac.
The Energy Ball Ultra has a few visual updates. I dont think I messed with it that much. The move just shows how excellent the base character is. I know I did my "Inside the move" Effect to it.
I didnt really mess with the Legion Ball Ultra.
I created a new Ultra. It's a wave type ultra. On each side of Ermac a burst appears, then another a little out, then another...
5 on each side of Ermac, 10 total. You can only be hit a max of 5 times.

The level 3 Psychic Explosion has 1 update to it. It performs a Brutality if it's the winning blow. I got the sound from somewhere and edited it for volume. the graphics come from name = "juano`s sub guy" displayname = "Smoke MK2" author = "juano16". It's the MK ninja character that changes with each palette selection.

In the video I forgot to show how far forward and backward you can travel during the levitation.


If you know any other bugs let me know. Let me know what you think. I'm still going to be working on this character.
vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv
Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 05:15:42 am by Odb718
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#2  August 20, 2014, 01:08:45 pm
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Nice job man.! I liked what you did to him so far. I'm about to test him out in a bit. I'm glad someone took the time to do this.
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#3  August 20, 2014, 01:13:33 pm
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Your updates look great. Good work.
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#4  August 20, 2014, 05:27:15 pm
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Im considering.. will you add any more mechs? Like a power charge of some sort?
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#5  August 20, 2014, 05:37:39 pm
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Nice work man! Really appreciate it. :)
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#6  August 20, 2014, 08:03:28 pm
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Like a power charge of some sort?
Still doing this? I think you were warned about this.


Feedback:
- D,DF,F,x+y gives debug flood and makes him stuck in his animation (you can move from that);
- the CLSNs on anim 1302 are a bis misplaced (they should be put higher);
- various hitsparks are not aligned correctly;
- D,DF,F,z+c has an effect (explod?) that doesn't disappear when he throws the fireball and remains behind him;
- if D,DB,B,z+c hits he has time to move away (and/or repeat the same move, dealing too much damage);
- the CLSNs in anim 2500 are overdetailed/too many; the supermove (D,D,z+c) starts with superpause (and no problem with that) but in the same superpause there's an orb that stays there; after the pause is finished the orb moves;
instead of this:
Code:
[State 1402, p2 on fire ]
type = Explod
trigger1 = (anim=2500) || (anim = 2501)
anim = 7051
...
change the trigger1 to this:
Code:
trigger1 = (anim=2500) && Time > 1 || (anim = 2501) && Time > 1

- it is very difficult to do but you can perform an infinite by doing light kick, medium punch, strong kick, "D,DB,B,x", get close to the enemy (this is the tricky part), repeat. The enemy has to be in the middle of the screen (or close enough). But it's not important.
Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 11:29:48 pm by Alex Sinigaglia
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#7  August 20, 2014, 08:30:57 pm
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Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#8  August 20, 2014, 11:28:39 pm
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Like a power charge of some sort?
I was actually planning on this. I usually have power charges for most of my characters unless they become to powerful/tough. Right now Ermac is way to tough for my friends to deal with. Ermac doesnt have a pushblock, which usually means he should get a power charge. I'm probably going to sprite the pushblock soon and see after that.

Feedback:
- D,DF,F,x+y gives debug flood and makes him stuck in his animation (you can move from that);
- the CLSNs on anim 1302 are a bis misplaced (they should be put higher);
- various hitsparks are not aligned correctly;
- D,DF,F,z+c has an effect (explod?) that doesn't disappear when he throws the fireball and remains behind him;
- if D,DB,B,z+c hits he has time to move away (and/or repeat the same move, dealing too much damage);
- the CLSNs in anim 2500 are overdetailed/too many; the supermove (D,D,z+c) starts with superpause (and no problem with that) but in the same superpause there's an orb that stays there; after the pause is finished the orb moves;
instead of this:
Code:
[State 1402, p2 on fire ]
type = Explod
trigger1 = (anim=2500) || (anim = 2501)
anim = 7051
...
change the trigger1 to this:
Code:
trigger1 = (anim=2500) && Time > 1 || (anim = 2501) && Time > 1

- it is very difficult to do but you can perform an infinite by doing light kick, medium punch, strong kick, "D,DB,B,x", get close to the enemy (this is the tricky part), repeat. The enemy has to be in the middle of the screen (or close enough). But it's not important.[/code]
Alex, thanks for such detail. I've fixed 2 of the problems. Your code works great. I didnt really notice the 1 orb at his feet on the D,D, ultra. Your way looks better.
The access to the EX move has been commented out. I may or may not implement EXs into my Ermac. This seems like a leftover from Slenderman's that I missed.

I know about the explod green orb that sits behind him in the Ultra fireball. I plan on adjusting that soon. I also need to get rid of the afterimage when you cancel out of the levitation.

The Ultra Energy ball, I may just edit what/how it can hit. Maybe just make it so it puts P2 into a fall state and cant connect with falling enemies.  Thatnks for the heads up on that. You dont really look for cheapness when youre making characters. This is definitely cheap.

About the hitboxes. Dont take this the wrong way. but why, why are they bad? the dive kick, the boxes are placed exactly on him. Is there something that happens in game?
And with 2500, the most hitboxes I use is 8. I like my characters to have tight hitboxes. I usually dont allow toes and fingers to be hit. Other than that, I dont want P2 hitting air so I cover the body as close as possible. Why is 1 or 2 rectangles best? Again, I know there's some type of debate over this. I've never actually looked into which way is best and why.

The fierce kick back to light kick infinite, There's a lot of crazy possibilities. I've gotten the light>medium>fierce>LP teleport to connect back to light. I'm going to have to make a study of all of it. From the power slam to the teleport to the timing of the basics. All of it needs to be tweaked, including the hitsparks. 
vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#9  August 20, 2014, 11:56:22 pm
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About the hitboxes. Dont take this the wrong way. but why, why are they bad? the dive kick, the boxes are placed exactly on him. Is there something that happens in game?
I'm sorry, it's not 1302, but 1303.

And with 2500, the most hitboxes I use is 8. I like my characters to have tight hitboxes. I usually dont allow toes and fingers to be hit. Other than that, I dont want P2 hitting air so I cover the body as close as possible. Why is 1 or 2 rectangles best? Again, I know there's some type of debate over this. I've never actually looked into which way is best and why.
I used three collision boxes and they look alright.

Left: yours; right: mine (they could be much better though).
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#10  August 21, 2014, 12:06:26 am
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Yes the more CLSNs the slower it can be on old systems and it's frankly just not the standard. The standards are set by capcom and snk. Snk generally uses 1-2 CLSN for the stance. Capcom uses 3. I'm a capcom converter so I can speak better there.
They never go lower than 3 CLSN unless in the air then they have 1. Attacks generally shouldn't have more than 3-4 clsn2 and 3 at most clsn1

If you would like I can adapt your CLSNs to be more akin to capcom's standards.
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#11  August 21, 2014, 02:08:14 am
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I get capcom and the like use fewer hitboxes. Im just wondering about the benefit of speed. I doubt it could be that much. Especially when the move calls for 10 helpers all with multiple hitboxes themselves.  5 extra hitboxes would slow it down?
The spoiler is about hitboxes, I feel I'd like to keep this thread closer to Ermac. It's my response to Just No Point and Alex Sinigaglia.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Alex, I hadnt messed with the dive kick animations.. I dont think.. I was thinking you meant they should be raised like 1303 and I couldnt figure out why ;p
I'll definitely fix the one's that are raised up too high. I'll probably run through all of them and look for big errors tonight. I think Slenderman did a good job on them.

I think I'll release an update after I decide what I want to do about the pushblock with all of the edits you've suggested.
vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#12  August 21, 2014, 02:23:25 am
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Well, that collision box in the spoiler is too exaggerated even for me.
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#13  August 21, 2014, 02:55:16 am
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Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
I think you're a bit wrong about the concept of the hitboxes. The hitboxes don't need to fit with the aesthetics of the character, they need to fit with the functions of the character.

But it's okay if you want to use your own hitboxes. I just say this because it's not like Capcom hitboxes are lazy.

Good luck :)
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#14  August 21, 2014, 03:14:16 am
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I know you do not wish to continue discussing CLSNs and this is my last post about it.

There is a reason as to why capcom hit boxes end up so large. It is because the sprites jump so drastically from frame to frame and there should be more frames between the ticks. The hit boxes are meant to also express movement. They fill in the space between frames and aid in priority at the same time.

That being said you are free to make your hit boxes however you like of course. I'm just a bit anal about this stuff :p
Wanted to be sure you/everyone understands the purpose of capcom's bulkier boxes.

SF3 used boxes a bit more like what you have. But sf3 has many more frames of animation. And they still use the hit boxes to fill space in certain moves.
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#15  August 21, 2014, 03:36:57 am
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Once you start playing Capcom games more and more, you'll come to understand why things are the way they are, and why the design is actually quite nice and neat.

I used to think Capcom hitboxes were retarded as hell, and I still think many of them are. But I understand their function.

Like Chazzanova said, functionality > aesthetics. Take this for instance:



I HAD to make it lower so that the animation and overall movement would still look nice, while accomplishing what the move was designed to do.

I recall seeing a Dhalsim animation (I think it was a crossup) where the CLSN appeared in a REALLY odd spot. Then there's ST Guile:


But from a functional standpoint, it makes sense, just like the CLSN I made for Bluestreak does. Until you either make a lot of characters, or actually start really designing characters from scratch, you will not understand why hitboxes exist that don't match up with the actual sprites.

I have no idea how a conversation with myself from 6 years ago would go, or how I could possibly convince myself about this, but there is still a GOOD reason for these decisions.
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#16  August 21, 2014, 05:03:06 am
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Amazing what you're doing I hope one day we can have a new MK full  game with this excelent sprites. chuchoryo is making Retile few chars left.xD
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#17  August 21, 2014, 07:21:48 am
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Jesuszilla, Just No Point, Chazzanova, Thanks for your points.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Ermac didnt actually get a lot of time, but a lot of attention cmpared to my other characters. I think I started editing this character on the 4th of this month?  Once I feel the character is different enough from the original I put my name on it. It's all I've been working on for the last few weeks. I plan on continuing the edits.

I was thinking about making the Force Push into 3 different ranges. I'm also not a fan of how it goes through a character that is super close. I think I should increase the width maybe?

Do you guys think I should make the Brutality rain down body parts like other MK characters? How the character just disappears is a little anticlimactic. I was thinking I could then make the other Ultras end in a similar fashion.

vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#18  August 21, 2014, 02:51:03 pm
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The attack box isn't on his arm because in ST, that would be too low for jab.

Functionality, as the key word, is preserved by putting it above his arm.

To examine why this is, think about it. Hitboxes that work properly but look weird aren't really an "issue". Why? Because the general public(that being their audience) will never know. If you look at SFA3's Dhalsim thing, the reason that space is hittable is simple. Dhalsim's normal is incredibly long. That kind of range should not have high priority. It should be hittable around certain areas. This premise follows through with a lot of games, and since simple hitboxes are not only easier to draw but functionally more effective, it's basic design.

Granted hitbox principle varies from game to game, just look at Blazblue, for instance! There's plenty of variation and my advice is to do what is both functionally proper but also fair and optimal. The suggestion for Capcom styled hitboxes is simply because they work. Not to say your hitboxes don't function properly, but more to preserve the organic environment shaped by these hitboxes as it has been proven that they work.

I don't mean to order you around, I just like gushing about this since it's just one of the things that makes fighting games truly a fascinating medium to project oneself with.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#19  October 31, 2014, 12:22:57 am
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I've been editing Ermac again.
I've added in some changes that were asked for. I still want to make a few more moves for him before I release an update.
Being attacked in the corner is just ridiculously bad. There's just no way out against a faster opponent.
I created a move for the corner escape but it's just not as fair as I hoped it'd be. Basically it's the reverse of "Psyport". Instead of teleporting and then attacking, Ermac creates the "void ball" and teleports to the other side of the screen. He doesnt come out swinging. The orb is an attack. It's extremely spam/infinite stuff. I dont like it. I've all but commented it out.

I have a corner escaped planned. Similar to my Ibuki and Dhalsim's disappear moves. Not sure how I'm going to animate it. I dont want it too close to Raiden's teleport.

As I mentioned before, I'm also planning a push block. Yun&Yang grabbed my attention for a while.
vVv Ryuko718 Updated 10/31/22 vVv
Re: Ermac718 - 6 Button Ermac with custom gameplay
#20  November 01, 2014, 05:20:55 am
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