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ESP.er: General Planning (Read 8173 times)

Started by [Judas], June 17, 2013, 07:00:05 pm
ESP.er: General Planning
#1  June 17, 2013, 07:00:05 pm
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Alright. So I'm not really sure if this should go here, but I'm gonna put it here anyway. If it belongs elsewhere, feel free to correct my mistake by moving it to the appropriate place.

I'll try to explain what I have in mind for ESP.er's backgrounds and make sure it's even possible before I attempt to design the graphics in such a way and end up wasting a ton of time on a pipe dream. Or I'll do it anyway and contract programmers for a different engine. Probably the first option, but it's good to dream. Anywho...

The basic round system for ESP.er is like that of Vampire Savior and Injustice. Multiple health bars instead of multiple rounds. I've been assured such a thing is possible within the boundaries of a closed full game. I've been playing with the idea of dynamic stage progression to accompany the change in rounds. For instance, the burning gas station stage. After a stage intro akin to Garou or Last Blade showing a scene of the initial explosion that triggers a massive raging inferno, the fighters go through their introductions and the match begins. For the first round, the stage basically a giant fire. When one character loses their first bar of health, a slight rain begins. Just enough rain to slightly tame the blaze. Now reduced to a smaller (yet still sizable) fire, the backdrop is billowing smoke more than it was before. Should the other player lose their first health bar, the background shifts to phase 3: heavier rain, smaller fire.

Essentially, its KoF's background changes between rounds. Instead of just changing suddenly behind a flash to black, I'd want them to shift to the next phase based on health. Is it possible to trigger such an event? Or would I be better off just forgetting the idea and settling doing the transitions at set times? The stage destruction in Injustice started this whole thing in motion, and I must know. I'd be content with simply letting the stages play out on their own, independent of what the characters are doing, but I'd be beyond elated if the other method were possible. As I've made it abundantly clear in the past, my knowledge of what is and isn't possible in the engine is pretty minimal.

Edit: Thread title changed to reflect the new focusssssss
Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 05:09:58 pm by [Judas]
Re: Dynamic Stage Progression?
#2  June 17, 2013, 09:16:42 pm
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It would be possible by adding the stage elements themselves into the characters' Sprite Files. Otherwise, you can't tell a stage to behave a certain way based on what the characters are doing. They're not connected, both characters and stages don't speak between themselves.

Or maybe add the stage elements changing in the common Fight FX and code them as explods, or something along those lines. It is possible, but also not natively supported, and workarounds need to happen.
Re: Dynamic Stage Progression?
#3  June 18, 2013, 03:00:41 am
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Since you're talking about a fullgame environment, this is totally possible.

Characters will trigger effects and all based on the stage they're in and some particular conditions (half health for example).
Syn is pretty proficient with this type of stuff since he has coded several interactive stages and is currently writing down a tutorial, as he participates into this year's Stage creation competition.
Re: Dynamic Stage Progression?
#4  June 20, 2013, 02:35:02 pm
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Syn seems to be the magic maker when it comes to any random stage trickery I inquire about. Perhaps I should just start directing my questions to him instead of even posting them.  :P

Should I convert this topic into a general "think out loud" thread for ESP.er? Or any of my other side projects that aren't moving anywhere currently, for that matter. My thread in the graphics forum has a lot of random non-graphical queries into stuff that could just as easily be discussed here. Keep the two separate and such.
Re: Dynamic Stage Progression?
#5  June 20, 2013, 04:19:34 pm
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Everything you mentioned is very possible and what makes it better is that this is a closed game project you speak of which means you can go above and beyond but 80 percent of what you want will have to be coded inside of characters and extra stage elements and sounds can be shared in that games screenpack fightfx.sff and common.snd and even the common.cns.

Players will just need helpers coded with the correct triggers for round based, low life amount situations, etc to call these extra elements to take place on your stages for your game.

just to show off a minor example:

http://youtu.be/JAOOsERQWtI?t=1m29s

this stage was my attempt at MK deceptions good and evil style stage that changes randomly and as you can see, 4 different scenery's are coded in this, one day time, one sunset, one night, one evil and I also coded it to where if something happens during the veil stage, it affects the rest. that happens during roundno 2. I also coded where the music changes also, and where your life is low in health, the evil version and music changes.

there is alot more I coded in this but this is one stage I used a ton of my tricks in it.

That was just to give you and example of what capable but like I said, since you are doing this for a full game, the possibiltes can go beyond what on this video.
Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 04:45:37 pm by -SyN-
Re: ESP.er: General Planning
#6  July 14, 2013, 05:29:27 pm
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That's... pretty damned awesome.

While I'm over here plotting stuff, a matter of sprite proportions has left me wondering which direction to go. Do I go the SFIV/SFxT route (which most 3D fighters seem to go) and have massive sized characters (roughly 4x CvS) for the little bit of extra detail, or do I keep the traditional proportions from nearly every 2D fighting game for a wider view of the action?

To illustrate:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Basically, do I opt for larger, more detailed sprites while risking a lot of action taking place over the health bars, or do I stick to a ratio that seems more friendly to the Vampire Savior-esque gameplay I intend to use? 720p is the resolution being used. I still have the master files for (most of) the graphics, so resizing to a larger scale would be an easy thing to do. It just comes down to preference, really. I jump back and forth on which I like more.
Re: ESP.er: General Planning
#7  July 31, 2013, 05:31:30 am
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Wow! This one is going to be big!
Re: ESP.er: General Planning
#8  July 31, 2013, 05:41:42 am
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While I'm over here plotting stuff, a matter of sprite proportions has left me wondering which direction to go. Do I go the SFIV/SFxT route (which most 3D fighters seem to go) and have massive sized characters (roughly 4x CvS) for the little bit of extra detail, or do I keep the traditional proportions from nearly every 2D fighting game for a wider view of the action?

If you are looking for an opinion on this... the second option IMO
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Re: ESP.er: General Planning
#9  July 31, 2013, 09:27:31 pm
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newer games with higher resolution characters are mostly 3D. I believe 2D games look better with smaller characters on screen. In your examples, the only one that looks big is AOF3, and that game sticks out like a sore thumb in pretty much every aspect, compared against all other 2D fighters.

Maybe the size of the stages also matters. The smaller the characters, the more zoomed out you can make the stages, and leave the option for more details and better perspective.

Just my 2 cents man.
Re: ESP.er: General Planning
#10  August 02, 2013, 04:37:24 am
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I'm willing to back this if you need another programmer.
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Re: ESP.er: General Planning
#11  August 16, 2013, 07:56:34 pm
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Hell yeah. I don't have any dedicated programmers yet, but the more the merrier when the time comes.

Also, traditional aspect ratio wins over the HD zoomed look. I was kinda hoping it would.

Incoming wall of text about a different project I was considering:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
judasian ramblin'
#12  July 05, 2014, 07:25:38 pm
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RESURRECTION kinda

So uh. Nevermind that last proyecto for the time being. Still something I would want to eventually do, but not any time soon. I've pretty much decided to temporarily halt ESP.er the game to focus on ESP.er the graphic novel(s). Trying to balance the two is leaving both a little lacking. I'll return to the fighter eventually, but I think I'd rather focus on the sequential art part.

In lieu of that, however, I can't shake the desire to work on a spiritual successor to Windjammers.


Now, I know what you're thinking. "That's already been done, Judas! You're a little late!"


And you would be right. HOWEVER, I also reeeeeaally love Kunio's Super Dodgeball sub-series.


Basically, would it be possible to do such a thing in MUGEN? I know plane-shifting isn't exactly MUGEN friendly, which is why I was pondering faking it via "hovering." Like, the aerial battles from DBZ Hyper Dimension. Instead of up and down being jump and crouch, they serve to move players around the screen. Jump would be a separate button. Obviously, this would be a full game environment (where rules are made to be... bent!). I'd imagine the goals and play-field barriers would be coded into the characters, but what about the disc/ball itself? I'm not code-savvy, but I'm surrounded by users that are.

The system I have in mind is essentially Windjammers with Dodgeball-esque health mechanics. I imagine it being a bit futuristic to allow for the ridiculous quick-sliding I have in mind (more on that later), with sprites not much larger than standard res to be displayed in glorious 720p. Maybe 1.5x CvS. Replace the disc with a ball, because I said so! The wall-bouncing/reflecting ball, super shots, catching and returning, increasing speed with each counter-throw, etc. of Winjammers would be pretty much intact, if possible. Rounds would still be sets, with points tallied and yadda yadda.

I'd want to utilize the health bar/super meter system to make it more combative than that, though. That's where the Dodgeball inspiration comes in. Health bar would be the ENERGY BAR WOW. When the ball hits a player, energy goes down. When the player boosts (again, more on that later!), energy goes down. However, energy is constantly (slowly) filling back up when those two things aren't happening. Maybe a quick boost to the energy meter when the opponent scores on you. Super meter is for super shots (duh) that can severely damage the opponent and/or more easily score a goal. Super meter fills via successfully catching the ball or being scored on. A penalty for holding the ball too long without doing anything a la Guilty Gear's Negative Penalty system, perhaps. If a player's energy hits zero, the match ends in a victory for the opponent.

Controls would be a four button affair. Throw/Catch, Boost, Jump, and Faint/Taunt.
Faint would be a false throw to try to misdirect the enemy, obviously. Taunting would serve to boost your super meter or something. I'unno.
BOOST is the center-point of the whole damned thing. Instead of diving to catch the ball or whatever, the boost would be a jet-propelled (hence the futuristic setting!) dash in whichever direction you should choose. Can be held down for continuous boost. Speed/energy cost would vary by character. Boost by itself would default to forward, but combining it with the d-pad would allow for 8-way maneuverability.

I like the idea of curving your shots by inputting fireball motions. Super shots would probably function like Dodgeball. Boost, throw or boost, jump, throw. Curve shots and super shots would probably take from the super meter like EX attacks and level 1 supers. Maybe a more powerful super shot by inputting a special command followed by throw+boost? I dunno about that part yet. Obviously, super shots would vary by character.

The middle line would work like Dodgeball, as well. If you cross it (by boosting, jumping, whatever), you drop the ball and head back to your side. Or maybe just make it uncrossable. Again, I'unno.

The goals themselves would most likely vary by player. Some are the same 3-5-3 set you see in the videos above, others are unique. Maybe one dude has two giant 3s and a tiny 5 in the middle that grows as he scores to make an enemy comeback even more likely. Maybe one has four sections that randomly shift. 3-3-5-3 becomes 5-3-3-3 becomes 3-3-3-5, etc. Maybe one is a full 3 that flashes 5 briefly at certain intervals. Maybe some use 2, 4, and 6 to mix it up. It would add a level of strategy, I think. Maybe not.

Someone (or someones) should tell me if MUGEN is even a viable option for such an idea. Inquiring minds want to know.