ink said, September 05, 2014, 03:17:49 pmYou're pretty sure... whats your point?My point is that there's no need to sugarcoat things. The companies will hire anyone that will work for them. It has nothing to do with bettering the lives of our children or stepping stones to better futures. It's just the greedy truth.
ink said, September 05, 2014, 03:30:56 pmQuoteMinimum wages should be hold in accordance to the place they are aimed at, if someone cant sustain themselves on minimum wage, its not a minimum wage! Thats the whole point of having a minimum wage to begin with.I didn't know there was an official reason. (Honestly, I am not being a smart ass)I guess life would be tough without going out for entertainment, cable, internet and a smartphone. Seriously though, do the math. You can live on that, it's just not fun.you cant really even pay rent with that as a job on some of those places, its exactly what they are protesting.if you have to do two full time eight hour jobs to hold rent and get food theres something intrisincally wrong with your minimum wage system.It doesnt really matter that "prices would raise" because theres absolutely no reason why you would pay someone below a living average.If prices would be so changed due to that then the whole system needs an overhaul but the other countries are able to have minimum wages without that kind of issue. we have a minimum wage ( also called a living wage ) and who works in one doesnt need to take two jobs to be able to hold a house. Why should it be different in America?If the issue is too many large wages for the top then the taxes get changed to charge more to those that get more out of them and the shifted money is placed at the bottom. Thats what the taxes are for, you get more out of a society you put more into it than those that get less out of it.
There's a couple issues going on here; minimum wage is pretty minor to this specific thing (fast food strikes), all things considered. The strikes themselves are not aimed at raising minimum wage, they're aimed solely at increasing wages at fast food restaurants to a level of a living wage, because the actual minimum wage has done an incredibly shitty job at doing that.Most of the people working at these places aren't young kids; they're people with families, often immigrants, and a fast food job is the best thing they can get. And they can't even survive on that, even while working one or two extra jobs in addition to that. All while billions and billions of profits are being raked in by corporate. It's... it's evil, is what it is, in the truest sense of the word. And thus the strikes.Because that's what strikes are for, they're the reason why we aren't living in a terrible dystopia out of Upton Sinclair's worst opium dreams (no idea if Sinclair did opium, and like, I love the outraged muckraking of The Jungle and the seismic consequences it had, not only in the meat industry, but labor at large, but my god is that a shitty, badly written book, and that's why I'm making fun of a long dead author). We don't live in a world where people get paid in company money they can only use to buy shitty products in a company store (and only just barely enough to survive on), a world where wages were so horrifically low that every single person in a family, including young children needed to work to keep the family surviving, a world where workers are treated as nothing more than cattle. All because of organized labor, unions, and striking. This latest protest is simply the next step in a long series of workers fighting for their very survival.Gritsmaster said, September 05, 2014, 02:29:43 pmIncreasing minimum wage in general would cause fluctuations in the American economy. And for that matter, the world's economy since they're such powerhouses. Plus that would fuck with small businesses.Not really, no. There is scads of evidence from different states that all have varyingly different levels of minimum wage that proves that raising it to something like $10/hour would pose little to any negative effect. The minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation since the 80s, and it's time to fix that.I strongly urge everyone against raising the minimum wage to read that article.ink said, September 05, 2014, 03:30:56 pmI guess life would be tough without going out for entertainment, cable, internet and a smartphone. Seriously though, do the math. You can live on that, it's just not fun.That's absolutely, objectively false. You simply can't live on a McDonald's wage, even if you're working a second job.
Quoteink said, September 05, 2014, 03:30:56 pmI guess life would be tough without going out for entertainment, cable, internet and a smartphone. Seriously though, do the math. You can live on that, it's just not fun.That's absolutely, objectively false. You simply can't live on a McDonald's wage, even if you're working a second job.Not easy, not fun but not impossible. People do survive on this. The best move someone can do who is on the bottom is try to move up, or cut down on extra things they dont need. Large companies will never change because there will always be able to replace there unskilled workers with any random person who wants to make a small wage.
They literally did the math, and the math is impossible. McDonald's own budget for their workers shows it's impossible. The people working at these places can't sustain themselves on these wages forever.
ink said, September 05, 2014, 04:16:14 pmQuoteink said, September 05, 2014, 03:30:56 pmI guess life would be tough without going out for entertainment, cable, internet and a smartphone. Seriously though, do the math. You can live on that, it's just not fun.That's absolutely, objectively false. You simply can't live on a McDonald's wage, even if you're working a second job.Not easy, not fun but not impossible. People do survive on this. The best move someone can do who is on the bottom is try to move up, or cut down on extra things they dont need. Large companies will never change because there will always be able to replace there unskilled workers with any random person who wants to make a small wage.You're absolutely wrong. Please tell me you've actually lived on a McWage for a long period of time.There was a guy here who legally immigrated here, been working at McDonalds for like 9 years now. In order to survive from day to day, he works construction in the morning till about 4:30-5:00, then comes to work at 6 till close. He lives on Long island which has humongous property taxes and the cost of living is fucking insane, and I'm pretty sure he's gotten a raise like twice (one being the min wage raise)... so maybe 9 dollars an hour, I don't remember.He told me himself he had to get another job to support his family back home and his life here- he lives off a shitty phone, an old laptop, and he lives in the basement of his sister (who also works at the mcdonalds)He's desperately looking for a job with better pay, cause he if he has to do it much longer, I think he's probably gonna be forced to move back and find work in his country. At least he has talked about it.There's another guy who hit his 20s, has to live on his own now, doesn't have money to go to school but still wants to. He works 80 hours a week, 40 at McDonalds (thats just on the clock) and another 40 over at the hospital where he got a job at. He got the job specifically because he can't pay bills on McWage alone.These are real people, who lived in my town, who struggle because of the absolutely terrible pay, the lack of benefits, the awful management/business practices, and the long hours at McDonalds.Yeah, its possible, but its no way to live.
if a person cant feed clothe and pay rent for themselve ( as in, one individual) then theres something wrong going on and the job isnt being paid at the level of the zone where they are living.If a homeless 18 year old just kicked out of their home cant get by with just that job without support from others then the job is not a job. I mean this isnt a third world country, someone with a job should be expected to have at least some ability to get by .
Umezono said, September 05, 2014, 04:27:23 pmYou're absolutely wrong. Please tell me you've actually lived on a McWage for a long period of time.There was a guy here who legally immigrated here, been working at McDonalds for like 9 years now. In order to survive from day to day, he works construction in the morning till about 4:30-5:00, then comes to work at 6 till close. He lives on Long island which has humongous property taxes and the cost of living is fucking insane, and I'm pretty sure he's gotten a raise like twice (one being the min wage raise)... so maybe 9 dollars an hour, I don't remember.He told me himself he had to get another job to support his family back home and his life here- he lives off a shitty phone, an old laptop, and he lives in the basement of his sister (who also works at the mcdonalds)He's desperately looking for a job with better pay, cause he if he has to do it much longer, I think he's probably gonna be forced to move back and find work in his country. At least he has talked about it.There's another guy who hit his 20s, has to live on his own now, doesn't have money to go to school but still wants to. He works 80 hours a week, 40 at McDonalds (thats just on the clock) and another 40 over at the hospital where he got a job at. He got the job specifically because he can't pay bills on McWage alone.These are real people, who lived in my town, who struggle because of the absolutely terrible pay, the lack of benefits, the awful management/business practices, and the long hours at McDonalds.Yeah, its possible, but its no way to live.And to add in with more examples, there were about 6 hispanic employees under the same general situation working at mine. One man was over 70 years old. He had to be working there to support his family and even that wasn't enough. His hours were more than 8 per day and he worked weekends. That's ridiculous...
ink said, September 05, 2014, 04:16:14 pmNot easy, not fun but not impossible [to live on a McDonald's wage] .People do survive on this. The best move someone can do who is on the bottom is try to move up, or cut down on extra things they dont need. Large companies will never change because there will always be able to replace there unskilled workers with any random person who wants to make a small wage.Depends on the second job, cost of living, etc. On one by itself, lmao.Living is more than just "paying rent." Have to pay for commute (unless you're lucky enough where you can walk to work), a cellphone at the very least (you have to have some kind of phone), insurance, utilities, etc. This doesn't take into account any possible emergencies which would completely derail any financial plan that would leave some shit out of luck.Budgeting sounds good in theory but is much harder to practice (especially if your wages suck).
JMM I read that link but it doesn't say anything about prices going up due to it or if they stay the same.
Someone that works at McDonalds should earn as much as someone who did actual worked and busted their ass to get a decent job? Raising minimum wage would completely inflate everything, it's not even a long term solution and working at McDonalds isn't some hard task that causes massive stress, it's not even a real job. It hurt my brain to see people in this thread making it seem like it's worth 15 dollars an hour, similar to an entry level college graduate's job.Instead of just outright raising minimum wage, the wage increase should be based on a person's education level, if anything at all. I'll be damned if some bloke who just graduated high school with no intention to contribute shit to society makes as much as someone who wants to go to college to at least attempt or pretend to attempt to be a contributing member of society. At least the education will somewhat enlighten them, making them a human being worthy of a bit more compensation for their efforts.All these people nowadays want handouts without the actual work that comes along with it.
Rajaa said, September 05, 2014, 04:49:33 pmworking at McDonalds isn't some hard task that causes massive stress, it's not even a real job.
walt said, September 05, 2014, 04:53:58 pmHe made a decent point there. Nice quoting out of context.nice "I will allow it" from someone that was claiming that umezono should consider himself lucky for getting ten bucks and thinking that the cost of living in mexico is similar to america. If you are going to have a repeat performance of mocking people who are poorer than you and then avoid answering anything you shouldnt bother.Rajaa i cant tell if you are joking or not, but anyone should be earning enough to live on, this is not a matter of luxuries.. If you work an eight hour job and cant sustain yourself on the basics the system isnt working.A graduate should be earning way above that pay level since its a education level that will earn him some luxuries.Inflation is not directly correlated to salaries for one the inflation is adjusted far more often than salaries do.
Rajaa said, September 05, 2014, 04:49:33 pmSomeone that works at McDonalds should earn as much as someone who did actual worked and busted their ass to get a decent job? Raising minimum wage would completely inflate everything, it's not even a long term solution and working at McDonalds isn't some hard task that causes massive stress, it's not even a real job. It hurt my brain to see people in this thread making it seem like it's worth 15 dollars an hour, similar to an entry level college graduate's job.Instead of just outright raising minimum wage, the wage increase should be based on a person's education level, if anything at all. I'll be damned if some bloke who just graduated high school with no intention to contribute shit to society makes as much as someone who wants to go to college to at least attempt or pretend to attempt to be a contributing member of society. At least the education will somewhat enlighten them, making them a human being worthy of a bit more compensation for their efforts.All these people nowadays want handouts without the actual work that comes along with it.Yep, all we need is selective minimum wage increases, lol. Hard work is hard work and one should be rewarded appropriately. Some schmuck who made it to the top without any hard work shouldn't be rewarded at all. But the way things are, he's on top and getting paid the most. Of course there could be some college dropout working at McDonald's who contributes nothing to society. Also, education level doesn't mean as much as it probably should. I've met some fucking morons with Masters Degrees in their fields. I don't even have an Associate's, but who gives a fuck? I got my job from my skill level, not from my education level. Due to all these different factors, it's not going to matter what they change really. There's no perfect solution that's going to benefit everyone. There's always someone who will get fucked over by the process.
Right now, a parent that works full time, on minimum wage, will not earn enough to be above the federal poverty line. In what fucking universe is that acceptable?Just No Point said, September 05, 2014, 04:42:53 pmJMM I read that link but it doesn't say anything about prices going up due to it or if they stay the same.Can't really find anything that specifically talks about prices of goods, but most sources have an increase in the federal minimum wage providing a pretty huge increase in GDP, jobs, and would provide a real stimulus to the economy. It doesn't seem like price inflation is mentioned in these studies simply because it's not a big concern at all.walt said, September 05, 2014, 04:53:58 pmHe made a decent point there. Nice quoting out of context.Eh, not really. That post was a fucking abortion, taking every other post in this thread out of context.
Алексей said, September 05, 2014, 05:03:58 pmThere's no perfect solution that's going to benefit everyone. There's always someone who will get fucked over by the process.While thats true it doesnt justify economic based eugenics.Even someone who went through life with less school work deserves to live as long as they are willing to pull their weight around.
And I think there's been enough stories shared in this thread to show that fast food workers are willing to pull their weight around, doubly so than most. It's only fair that they should be able to, you know, actually be able to subsist on a living wage for that.
