YesNoOk
avatar

Feedback to Warnings/Decisions (Read 156778 times)

Started by Iced, February 24, 2012, 09:43:26 pm
Email this topic
View printable version
Share this topic:
Page 156 of 161← First < 1 ... 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 ... 161 > Last →   Go Down

Just No Point

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3101  August 22, 2014, 04:27:46 pm
  • ******
    • www.justnopoint.com/

  • Online
That's fair enough too. But I don't think it hurts to say something on the 1st offense or the 5th.

Just saying something is terrible without feedback is pretty much the same as "I expected x character" instead.
But I tend to view these things more casually. I'm not trying to scare these people. I just want to let them know that those kinds of posts can be harmful.

Titiln

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3102  August 22, 2014, 04:30:47 pm
  • ******

  • Online
i can't really tell if the post is 100% mean spirited or not. i don't think posting an image like that without context helps. not everybody's going to get what you mean, even if you think it's fairly obvious. like this other post which isn't mean spirited, it's just saying you're comparing apples to oranges, but as felo demonstrated it can be confusing
Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 04:41:38 pm by Titiln

DKDC

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3103  August 22, 2014, 04:36:42 pm
  • ******
The actual problem here is the mob mentality in the particular case of Chu. It's just that this is a hot subject because it's been going on for years.

Take the same event but change one variable at a time, see if and when it bothers you.
Change the topic : if a comment like that happened once in a completely random topic, it wouldn't be a big issue. Anyone SHOULD be able to take this kind of comment *once* without the topic imploding and melting. It's when the topic is flooded by it that it goes to hell.
Change the poster : see my previous post. Even if it was meant as an attack, it wasn't really THAT insulting. It wasn't a torrent of fuckyous or anything.
So the only real problem here is that it happens repeatedly in the particular topics that involve Chu. This kind of comments can be harmful, sure, but only if they're repeated, by the same person, or to the same person. If you take this particular instance and say it happened just once or twice, it's really not a problem. So really, the only thing to say in this case is that Chu's is a dangerous subject, and JZ himself isn't really at fault, it's just the same warning Chu's topics always get.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 04:40:13 pm by DKDC

Just No Point

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3104  August 22, 2014, 04:46:59 pm
  • ******
    • www.justnopoint.com/

  • Online
I used the same logic when I was talking to Iced on google talk once it came up in warnings. I decided that I may be allowing it more because it is Chu and his history. Which is why I asked someone that isn't in the community here. Taking the history out of it and looking at face value from an outsider looking at the forum.

After that I still felt it wasn't worth anything even as strict as deleting. I  figured it'd be best just to explain how a post like that would be more acceptable with a bit more info. It offsets the "mocking" aspect more so even those that are easier to cry fowl can accept the post better. Call it a compromise. If my post seemed threatening or hostile and not polite then that was not my intent and I will apologize right away.

DKDC

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3105  August 22, 2014, 04:55:24 pm
  • ******
Long story short, when you asked "am I being biased against Chu for allowing it", I was more thinking along the lines of "you're biased against JZ for thinking of slapping that post". (except that was when I did mistake your "slap on the wrist" comment for the 3-day ban before you clarified that, since the 3-day ban is often considered as a slap on the wrist :P)

It's not that your post was hostile, it's that it's a hot topic and you're overthinking it. It's like every time something happens, you have to rethink the whole affair "should I or should I not allow it". And sometimes, you (not you specifically I mean, I'm generally speaking here) confuse the backlog of how many times it happened for an increased gravity of this particular instance.
Make a decision on what is acceptable and what isn't on the Chu subject, and stick to it. Don't focus on a specific post by a specific poster, otherwise it does look like you're unloading the accumulated stress on that particular person. I don't have anything against your call for order and description of what "good feedback" would be, mind you, but it came about in a kind of targeted way.


(by the way, after you clarified what you meant by slap on the wrist, what I'm saying here is probably much less relevant ; it's just a general comment on how this kind of subject is handled)
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 05:02:36 pm by DKDC

Just No Point

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3106  August 22, 2014, 05:14:19 pm
  • ******
    • www.justnopoint.com/

  • Online
I see what you're saying. But there are still 2 small issues that elevate this particular post more than a normal post simply saying "This is terrible"

It's an image. Images "can speak a thousand words" if you will. And it was brought to my attention by someone else in chat that didn't want to use the report button. That elevates it a bit more as well. If a post is or is not reported that increases the need for intervention just a bit.

After it was said and done I felt it wouldn't hurt just to casually say something in the thread. And here we are. If I hadn't been overthinking it then the post may have gotten deleted or maybe nothing would have happened at all. Not sure really.
I'd just rather be too critical so people don't think we're just reacting on 1st sight. Also why I posted everything in public.

EDIT to your edit:
I'll be sure to be more clear when I say "slap on wrist." I forget some mods use that as ban. I feel a ban is very extreme so I can see how it may be worrying for me to say that.

Bastard Mami

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3107  August 22, 2014, 05:59:30 pm
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico

  • Online
chuchoryu is well known for not listening the feedback so giving him more detailed feedback than"the sprite looks bad, just like this other one" is a stupid waste of time. those posts just tell him, that the animation looks bad, if he ever showsn any intent on listenning to any feedback rest assured people would give it that.

basically our options are:
ignore chucho's topics, so he only will get the "positive feedback" nice char +1 posts, which means he will continue doing what he does, people outside of the comunity (lurkers, etc...) will think that a majority of the comunity aprobes that kind of work, and chucho will keep on pissing off spriters; I don't want to hurt sensibilities so I won't say names but I know a few hadnful projects that have already been cancelled/gone ´private because they got pissed at the treatment chucho gives to their resources.

give chucho detailed feedback, again a waste of time as he won't listen to any.

once in a while post some stuff that tells people that hcucho's work is generally considered bad, so other guy's who make stuff don't feel like following chucho's examples (if you consider the amount of stuff chucho posts, the ocurrences of this are actually very sparse).

Iced

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3108  August 22, 2014, 06:02:05 pm
  • ******
  • does this look like the face of mercy?
If you got nothing worth saying, theres no point posting.

If you are going to give someone feedback give it, if they arent "worth" proper feedback then dont post . If you are posting you should at least be making full posts, otherwise might as well just be posting memes in project threads that go "mfw bad sprites"

the idea that you have to shit on chuchoryu to somehow save the community from people that decide to create like he does is ridiculous and isnt worth even commenting.

Not really rocket science.

DKDC

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3109  August 22, 2014, 06:03:59 pm
  • ******
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Iced

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3110  August 22, 2014, 06:04:38 pm
  • ******
  • does this look like the face of mercy?
if what you posted wasnt worth saying then its not worth being read.

DKDC

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3111  August 22, 2014, 06:05:24 pm
  • ******
Define what's not worth saying
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Iced

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3112  August 22, 2014, 06:07:54 pm
  • ******
  • does this look like the face of mercy?
The post i was replying to summed it.
Quote
chuchoryu is well known for not listening the feedback so giving him more detailed feedback than"the sprite looks bad, just like this other one" is a stupid waste of time.

DKDC

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3113  August 22, 2014, 06:09:15 pm
  • ******
Make a rule that no one should give feedback to Chuchoryu, then. I mean all feedback, not just those you don't like.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Bastard Mami

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3114  August 22, 2014, 06:14:53 pm
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico

  • Online
Iced said, August 22, 2014, 06:07:54 pm
The post i was replying to summed it.
Quote
chuchoryu is well known for not listening the feedback so giving him more detailed feedback than"the sprite looks bad, just like this other one" is a stupid waste of time.
should not you be busy then, deleting most post from his releases thread, while leaving only the nice char+a ones ? I mean just take a look at his joe thread.

Iced

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3115  August 22, 2014, 06:27:09 pm
  • ******
  • does this look like the face of mercy?
I dont even know what you are going on about, wip threads have always been parsed for stuff like that. Posts that are memetic or do not contain feedback are discouraged in projects.

if you dont think a user deserves more detailed feedback than a picture of a bad animation done by a newbie 5 years ago when he was trying to learn to sprite without any context, then you are probably not helping anyone and should consider if you should post at all.


[MFG]maximilianjenus said, August 22, 2014, 06:14:53 pm
should not you be busy then, deleting most post from his releases thread, while leaving only the nice char+a ones ? I mean just take a look at his joe thread.

there has been several cleanups of posts insulting him on his release threads , thats a thing that happens commonly due to the ammount of people trying to insult him. No one is saying that everyone should just leave behind "Nice char plus one" posts, just to avoid posting without any feedback at all if you have something to tell him. Its not more worth posting a random post just because you dont want to leave feasible feedback. You are not going to start discussing trainsets on his project threads just because you dont like his characters.
I myself have gone into long posts feedbacking his bad choices.


Iced said, July 14, 2014, 12:50:06 am
Quote
If you hate the extra changes by Varo_Hades that much...copy the sff onto the original PotS Cammy and shut up. Problem solved. Just enjoy what you've got, guys.

Criticizing something is not the same thing as hating something .
The whole point of the criticism was that the sprites arent done wonderfully.
in that stance her body rocks left and right a bunch of pixels without animation to them while her legs animate normally.



Delta has supposedly a different hat, the scar she a lready has in alpha.
just google cammy alpha.
Iced said, July 14, 2014, 12:58:03 am
Pretty dang sure that this here is misanimated

Its jumping pixels left and right instead of animating them or having any transitions fromt he waist up shes a rushed job.

you can see the same here for one of his other characters:



Not to mention how there are sprite count loss every now and then on those animations.

I dont know why you would assume I wanted bouncing boobs.

If he isnt worth your feedback dont feedback. But you and all of you can give better feedback than that and make better posts than posts with content like that.  You taught me to moderate like that and if its true for "good" feedback receivers its also true for "bad" feedback receivers . I learnt it from ya, boss. =P

Bastard Mami

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3116  August 22, 2014, 06:33:13 pm
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico

  • Online
there is this thing of context, mien and jesuszilla's post were pretty much one post split it two, now I see that B-hatter's post got between them, I posted saying that the animation looked like someone used the skew tool as jesuszilla posted the skewed animation, as we both were talkign about it in irc.

to TDS:
the comic people that made you doubt yoruself lakc a lot of info being external, part of their argument is based on that he does some nice looking sprites, while in fact the nice looking bits are the stuff he usually takes/steals from other people; it's like having a comic guy who makes ocasionally good panels, so people tell you you treat him too harshly, except that you know that his good looking panels are actually traced from you friend's  panels.

DKDC

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3117  August 22, 2014, 06:43:34 pm
  • ******
Iced said, August 22, 2014, 06:27:09 pm
I dont even know what you are going on about, wip threads have always been parsed for stuff like that. Posts that are memetic or do not contain feedback are discouraged in projects.

if you dont think a user deserves more detailed feedback than a picture of a bad animation done by a newbie 5 years ago when he was trying to learn to sprite without any context, then you are probably not helping anyone and should consider if you should post at all.
I think you misunderstood something :
Iced said, August 22, 2014, 06:07:54 pm
The post i was replying to summed it.
Quote
chuchoryu is well known for not listening the feedback so giving him more detailed feedback than"the sprite looks bad, just like this other one" is a stupid waste of time.
What you're quoting here is saying that it's pointless to give detailed feedback - since he won't listen to them. that's what he called a waste of time. With what you're saying here, it's like you want people to NOT give detailed feedbacks - because they're pointless, which means, according to you, that it's not worth posting them.

Not to mention that one person who thinks a post is worthless doesn't mean another person will think it is too, so the whole "if it's not worth saying, then don't say it" thing has always been bogus talk for authoritarian parents who just want their kids to shut up because they said so. It's parent-talk for "If I think it's worthless, then don't say it".
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Just No Point

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3118  August 22, 2014, 06:47:39 pm
  • ******
    • www.justnopoint.com/

  • Online
E:
I understood that part :)
Many users are more casual. There seems to be more of a push to make sure that people that are not deeper into the community like us don't just come in and see things like that and think this is how it should be or is here.

As long as something like that doesn't alienate the actual community still here I don't mind that sort of push and will be mindful to attempt the bridge.
I don't think my post regarding that simple sprite is something that would alienate the regulars. Obviously I hope not =p

Considering the action I took I still don't get what we're talking about. I guess it's the "badge" that comes with admin makes my post rub a bit deeper but I honestly only meant to aid no one being upset on either side. I hope this makes sense. I wasn't trying to be all "OBAY ATHORITAI" I was casually addressing it.


Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 06:51:40 pm by Just No Point

DKDC

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3119  August 22, 2014, 06:56:40 pm
  • ******
Just No Point said, August 22, 2014, 06:47:39 pm
Considering the action I took I still don't get what we're talking about. I guess it's the "badge" that comes with admin makes my post rub a bit deeper but I honestly only meant to aid no one being upset on either side. I hope this makes sense. I wasn't trying to be all "OBAY ATHORITAI" I was casually addressing it.
Overthinking, don't worry, no one's still arguing about what you did.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Iced

Re: Feedback to Warnings/Decisions
#3120  August 22, 2014, 06:58:45 pm
  • ******
  • does this look like the face of mercy?
DKDC said, August 22, 2014, 06:43:34 pm
What you're quoting here is saying that it's pointless to give detailed feedback - since he won't listen to them. that's what he called a waste of time. With what you're saying here, it's like you want people to NOT give detailed feedbacks - because they're pointless, which means, according to you, that it's not worth posting them.

Not to mention that one person who thinks a post is worthless doesn't mean another person will think it is too, so the whole "if it's not worth saying, then don't say it" thing has always been bogus talk for authoritarian parents who just want their kids to shut up because they said so. It's parent-talk for "If I think it's worthless, then don't say it".

no no, i mean what i said where if you think its worthless going into detail and would rather not post then dont post at all.
I too do that.
E uses a technique similar ot mine, offering feedback on glaring defects, if user reacts well i go into more detail. if they dont I make a mental note and probably wont waste much time next time they release something.

TDS post in thread is how i think people should post, adding more context and feedback and not just posting the bare minimum or a picture or whatever. That stance by itself doesnt tell me much, but adding some explanation like tds did i think it turns out as a decent feedback on what not to do when animating.

Talking with E on chat he suggested that maybe tds should have just dropped the request to add more context in future posts and not bring it up on warnings since people seem to be mostly reacting to the post in warnings itself.
Page 156 of 161← First < 1 ... 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 ... 161 > Last →   Go Up