I can easily exchange all that, with a cop insted of a thug, a cop can destroy your property sometimes for no reason, can violate your rights, bully you, and sometimes loot you during a warrant search, so this and other tons of things this guys get away with, so lets call the criminal to protect me from the other criminal
i don't know what point you're trying to make right now. we're talking about what's expected from law enforcement
Yes we always expect protection from the law enforcement but lets not also forget the illegal actions this guys commit sometimes, we all feel protected by them but at the same time unprotected, some people just dont trust them thats my point
You're going all over the place and keep changing the subject whenever someone asks you for clarification or points out an issue in what you're saying. You're not making any sense, it's like you're just saying some random thing that's on your mind at the time without caring for the discussion that's actually going on.Stop trying.
Sorry if i did misslead the thread tittle, Im aware of what the main discussion is just though i could add an opinion of what I think of the Police in general since its also a thread that mentions them as well and yes it was a random opinion on my end, my bad and get on with the main subject.
yeah how about we stick with the main subject for the rest of this threadsuch asin an event i don't think any of us expected, buddhist monks from tibet and india have joined the protest
【RTC】MelvanaInChains said, August 18, 2014, 12:40:04 amyeah how about we stick with the main subject for the rest of this threadsuch asin an event i don't think any of us expected, buddhist monks from tibet and india have joined the protestcould these people try to be any more subtle?
sorry guys forget what I just said...I got another one for ya...Federal autopsy ordered for teen shot by police in Ferguson, Missouriarticle: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/17/us-usa-missouri-shooting-idUSKBN0GF0LP20140817
DesiDesai40 said, August 16, 2014, 09:53:00 pmWith racism so much less "glaring" than it was in the past, I don't think it will inspire or galvanize non-blacks enough to actually do something. Personally I don't think its in anyone's personal interest to defend us, really. You have a very pessimistic and unrealistic outlook. We are animals for sure, and racism (aka the fear of something different) is a necessary evolutionary device. But we also have a very special intelligence that gives us a say in our progress. Do you not think it really works like that, that we'll forever be a bunch of dumb animals? Things might not be as glaring as slavery or hosing people down in the streets but when an 85 year old white billionaire gets caught saying some mildly racist shit and everybody starts jumping up and down like crazy...it makes me think that we still got a pretty good focus on the wrongs of racism. Wrong is wrong, and intelligence will always side with right regardless of the emotionally driven detours along the way. We have the power to refine ourselves as a species.....and that's evolution and it's a mystery.Also, you shouldn't use "personally" and "personal" in the same sentence.
DesiDesai40 said, August 16, 2014, 09:53:00 pmYou have a very pessimistic and unrealistic outlook. I should have stopped right there. Hearing people like you, who have no clue what they're talking about, makes me cringe. No offense. I needed to say it.DesiDesai40 said, August 16, 2014, 09:53:00 pmWe are animals for sure, and racism (aka the fear of something different) is a necessary evolutionary device.That makes - no sense. Do you really expect me to defer to that? I hope that no one accepts this sentence because it's absolutely absurd.DesiDesai40 said, August 16, 2014, 09:53:00 pmBut we also have a very special intelligence that gives us a say in our progress. Do you not think it really works like that, that we'll forever be a bunch of dumb animals? Things might not be as glaring as slavery or hosing people down in the streets but when an 85 year old white billionaire gets caught saying some mildly racist shit and everybody starts jumping up and down like crazy...it makes me think that we still got a pretty good focus on the wrongs of racism. Wrong is wrong, and intelligence will always side with right regardless of the emotionally driven detours along the way. We have the power to refine ourselves as a species.....and that's evolution and it's a mystery.This part of your post I can actually respond to. The reason why I am so pessimistic is because of revelations highlighted by videos like these:Bike Thief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qMK-JSXawMVandalism: (Part 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cCQU0jt4cs(Part 2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLXCCcqnY-IThe people in these videos wouldn't deem themselves racists, and likely believe they are egalitarians, but unfortunately cannot recognize their racism because it has been indirectly normalized to them. Anyone can talk about progress, but when you're trying to tackle an issue that runs as deeply as the sub-conscious, you have an issue that's virtually insurmountable. Blacks and whites tend to occupy different neighborhoods and if you can't recognize this sad stratification between our two groups "in particular," and the huge problem it creates, you're simply ignorant. Merging the environments would be the answer and that will not happen because that is truly not in the interest of many to promote.Nucka said, August 18, 2014, 01:35:28 amAlso, you shouldn't use "personally" and "personal" in the same sentence.I had to; I should have put a comma after personally, though. In my original post "personal" was absent. I added personal because I acknowledge that there are members of other races who recognize what regularly happens and would love to help, but helping would ultimately work to their detriment monetarily or otherwise.
DesiDesai40 said, August 18, 2014, 04:10:29 amI should have stopped right there. Hearing people like you, who have no clue what they're talking about, makes me cringe. No offense. I needed to say it.I'm not saying the attitude isn't understandable. It's just not an attitude of advancement, but you don't believe in that anyway. And I'll throw in the classic "you don't know who I am or where I came from". And I don't know you either. But I wouldnt've replied to this if I didn't have the life experience to warrant it. DesiDesai40 said, August 18, 2014, 04:10:29 amThat makes - no sense. Do you really expect me to defer to that? I hope that no one accepts this sentence because it's absolutely absurd.It was a completely valid statement. You kinda echoed it at the end of your post.Spoiler, click to toggle visibiltyDesiDesai40 said, August 18, 2014, 04:10:29 am...an issue that runs as deeply as the sub-conscious From an evolutionary perspective, if things are working and survival is solid, anything different is a threat because it presents uncertainty. You're saying that there's no hope and we're stuck. But unless we kill ourselves off, eventually racial differences will no longer register as a threat. It's not gonna happen to everyone at once and it's not gonna completely weed itself out for a long time but it's gonna happen....unless some major world altering event occurs to completely fuck us up and send us back 150 years. DesiDesai40 said, August 18, 2014, 04:10:29 amThis part of your post I can actually respond to. The reason why I am so pessimistic is because of revelations highlighted by videos like these:Bike Thief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qMK-JSXawMVandalism: (Part 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cCQU0jt4cs(Part 2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLXCCcqnY-IThe people in these videos wouldn't deem themselves racists, and likely believe they are egalitarians, but unfortunately cannot recognize their racism because it has been indirectly normalized to them. Anyone can talk about progress, but when you're trying to tackle an issue that runs as deeply as the sub-conscious, you have an issue that's virtually insurmountable. Blacks and whites tend to occupy different neighborhoods and if you can't recognize this sad stratification between our two groups "in particular," and the huge problem it creates, you're simply ignorant. Merging the environments would be the answer and that will not happen because that is truly not in the interest of many to promote.20/20 used to be a good show like 20/20 years ago. I think my previous comments cover this.DesiDesai40 said, August 18, 2014, 04:10:29 amI had to; I should have put a comma after personally, though. In my original post "personal" was absent. I added personal because I acknowledge that there are members of other races who recognize what regularly happens and would love to help, but helping would ultimately work to their detriment monetarily or otherwise.It's not wrong. It just doesn't sound good. You could replace "personal interest" with "vested interest". Read it out-loud, it feels better.
Racism will mostly be gone in i would say... 60 years, when most of the people who were somewhat involved in actively pursuing it, even covertly like giving jobs to a white over a black, will be dead.The places it's harder to stamp out are those where it's actively taught. That process is far slower, because these people are fucking dumb in the first place. The only way that aspect breaks is when one of the children being taught has something happen that shows them their parents were wrong and they have no way to deny it. This happens on both sides, on the white side it's about power, on the black it's about resentment. Still taught, still an issue, won't vanish as fast as the mainstream version, despite being less covert.The actions in missouri are the covert ones, but with social media now it becomes WAY harder to hide that sort of thing as there are almost always people carrying a camera with them now. 20 years ago the cops would have utterly gotten away with it. Now, not a chance, something is going to happen.
Cyanide said, August 18, 2014, 09:24:08 amRacism will mostly be gone in i would say... 60 years, when most of the people who were somewhat involved in actively pursuing it, even covertly like giving jobs to a white over a black, will be dead.The following provides the context for my opinion. I apologize for its length, but it is very important. Spoiler, click to toggle visibiltyMy comment about an instinctive tendency of Europeans (and I'm using code for American whites) to view blacks as sub-human comes from my life and an understanding about many of their beliefs that exists within me too. Let me outline this. My father is worth 4 million and I've been raised exclusively within white areas all my life and only managed to start associating with my own about two years ago. While raised in white-suburbia you're literally exposed to a a very different culture and very different faces that desensitize you almost completely from everything that goes on in the inner city. The white kids whom I grew up with, ESPECIALLY white girls, regularly -- and I mean regularly -- would talk about "big sweaty black guys" right in front of me and both the boys and girls had almost entirely negative view blacks. I did an experiment about five times now where I'd purposely drive my white friends through the inner city on our way to clubs and EVERY TIME they would talk about, 'getting robbed,' 'feeling unsafe,' and tone down after literally screaming with joy just minutes before. There's even part of me that looks at my own as backward in some sense, with the understanding that because our looks are so different from theirs, many of them have an instinctive inclination to view us as ugly and disgusting; at my core the Clark Doll experiment exists within me too.Cyanide said, August 18, 2014, 09:24:08 amThe places it's harder to stamp out are those where it's actively taught. That process is far slower, because these people are fucking dumb in the first place. The only way that aspect breaks is when one of the children being taught has something happen that shows them their parents were wrong and they have no way to deny it. This happens on both sides, on the white side it's about power, on the black it's about resentment. Still taught, still an issue, won't vanish as fast as the mainstream version, despite being less covert.Good point.Cyanide said, August 18, 2014, 09:24:08 amThe actions in missouri are the covert ones, but with social media now it becomes WAY harder to hide that sort of thing as there are almost always people carrying a camera with them now. 20 years ago the cops would have utterly gotten away with it. Now, not a chance, something is going to happen.Social media is no remedy. Amadou Diallo, Trayvon, Sean Bell, Jordan Davis, were all covered in similar fashions and eventually things died down and the status quo resumed. "They" have the backing of [militarized] police and can keep blacks at bay in any way they wish. If you've heard of the Danziger Bridge Shootings, you definitely understand why I am so pessimistic. Nothing gets done because it's not in their -majority's- interest to truly do something.Nucka said, August 18, 2014, 07:09:31 amI'm not saying the attitude isn't understandable. It's just not an attitude of advancement, but you don't believe in that anyway. And I'll throw in the classic "you don't know who I am or where I came from". And I don't know you either. But I wouldnt've replied to this if I didn't have the life experience to warrant it.You can talk about isolated experiences you've had, but when you're talking about the majority of people and the "observable" realities of the situations we're dealing with, I can only label you and most others naively hopeful. And my life experiences along with those of "most" other blacks raised across the spectrum would likely, by and large, contradict the positive ones you've been through. Nucka said, August 18, 2014, 07:09:31 amDesiDesai40 said, August 18, 2014, 04:10:29 amThat makes - no sense. Do you really expect me to defer to that? I hope that no one accepts this sentence because it's absolutely absurd.It was a completely valid statement. You kinda echoed it at the end of your post.Spoiler, click to toggle visibiltyDesiDesai40 said, August 18, 2014, 04:10:29 am...an issue that runs as deeply as the sub-consciousPlease do not stretch the meaning nor context of my words to fit a false paradigm.Your quote Nucka said, August 18, 2014, 01:35:28 amWe are animals for sure, and racism (aka the fear of something different) is a necessary evolutionary device. is wrong. First of all, racism is not automatically equated to "fear" and is actually more of a predisposition to view and treat someone negatively which can can stem from something as simple as the way they look. Some people treat others they deem "ugly" with contempt not out of fear, but because they're not physically attracted to them. Some people treat gays with contempt, not because of fear, but because they find their actions abominable. This is not about fear in the context of 'deer running from whatever 'else' approaches them,' this is about a predisposition that causes them to treat us in a particular manner.Nucka said, August 18, 2014, 01:35:28 am From an evolutionary perspective, if things are working and survival is solid, anything different is a threat because it presents uncertainty. You're saying that there's no hope and we're stuck. But unless we kill ourselves off, eventually racial differences will no longer register as a threat. It's not gonna happen to everyone at once and it's not gonna completely weed itself out for a long time but it's gonna happen....unless some major world altering event occurs to completely fuck us up and send us back 150 years.Where are you getting this stuff? Besides how wrong you are to bring this discussion down to "fear" and "a threat," where did I ever say that the remedy would be [for human or just blacks] to thoroughly kill ourselves off? I 'did' say of blacks that fighting back would be the only answer, but that would ultimately get us all killed and that's obviously counter-intuitive.If you misunderstood what I meant by "things going south," I mean that some force takes away the power of many more well-off whites to separate themselves from the black community (especially by militarized means) that forces us to unite. If that source doesn't take away that militarized power then events like Danziger will simply happen all over again because they can pay to have the more violent segments of their populace caqrry out violence to move us away. Notice that gentrification still happens with impunity too.Nucka said, August 18, 2014, 07:09:31 am20/20 used to be a good show like 20/20 years ago. I think my previous comments cover this.They didn't because you completely missed my point and likely will again. I don't mean to be confrontational, but you're frustrating me.Nucka said, August 18, 2014, 07:09:31 amIt's not wrong. It just doesn't sound good. You could replace "personal interest" with "vested interest". Read it out-loud, it feels better.You are correct, sir.
Did things change immediately after Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King etc. ? No. Is society the same as what it was just before these guys ? Of course not.What's the conclusion from only that ? The conclusion is that it takes time, but it does work.You say there was coverage, but then it died down. I say people saw it, and the kids who saw it will make things happen when they grow up. Don't just look at those incidents you list and say "well, things didn't change overnight after them, so it won't change ever". That's just false, history already proved that to be wrong. It will change. That's just how it works.By the way, you have to be a part of it yourself too. Come out of your closet, tell your friends that you're Black too, and yet they don't feel unsafe with you (hopefully). Then tell them that the difference isn't the color of your skin, but that those they're afraid of are poor. And the obvious solution is to make them not poor, maybe then your friends won't be afraid of them.Also, your own comments about Europeans vs Blacks (including white Americans in the Europeans) is also pretty racist. If they're not Black, then they're not Americans but Europeans ?
