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Fighter's Generator ( previously Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine) (Read 59006 times)

Started by Bastard Mami, December 21, 2017, 07:40:40 pm
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Fighter's Generator ( previously Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
New #1  December 21, 2017, 07:40:40 pm
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Tl;dr, i got scammed into creating a fighting game engine, so i want to recover some of my investment on it.

I created a fighting game engine for a company that did not come to fruition, since they owe me a huge percentage of the money on the engine I am releasing it to recover some of my down-wages. The engine itself is mostly complete, while focused on fighting games it has wrestling, beat em up, arena support, and if the relase goes well, I plan on supporting development.

The engine uses text files ( json), png files and sound files as resources, characters, backgrounds, select screens are scriptable, so it is similar to mugen, but the state control content is lighter as those got added as they got used.
Now, the plan is to release a version on steam for ten dollars, that version cant be used for commercial projects, right now i am working on formatting the documentation so i might be able to post it here around the weekend.

Feel free to ask any questions or give suggestions.

version 1.5 of the documentation :
http://jolly-kare-8d95f8.bitballoon.com/


Some extra disclosure about myself:

Regarding the engine work, due to lack of payments I kept on slowing down to work secondary jobs to make ends meet, so in the past few months I have not even touched it, so that is why some of my answers come up like "If I remember", etc... The computer in  which I had the source code even spent a few months in a pawn shop (but once I maaged tog et another job I unpawned the computer and recovered the source code).
More into my programming experience, while some know me for my my mugen stuff, I have been coding engines profesionally since 2010, disregarding the reseach/work on them I did before as a side project. most of the time it was engines for business apps, but what might be more relevant there is that I am used to developing engines, handling requests for the improvement, etc...
Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 09:37:41 pm by Bastard Mami
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#2  December 21, 2017, 07:47:58 pm
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So is it's flagship character Kung Fu Neko? Mui-Thai Neko?

How or what gave them the name for it? Is it's default theme all... Anime? Will it be heavily centered in one part of the world?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#3  December 21, 2017, 07:51:11 pm
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It's an engine, Bluecat

The name is probably down to the creator being a big weeb
We the best
We will cut a frowny face in your chest, little wench
I'm unmentionably fresh, I'm a mensch, get correct
I will walk into a court while it wrecks, screaming "Yes!
I am guilty motherfuckers, I am death."
Hey, you wanna hear a good joke?
Nobody speak, nobody get choked
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#4  December 21, 2017, 08:09:38 pm
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Yup, the name is place holder until/if i find a better one, as far as characters goes i designed a hort haired, athletic girl as the test character but i might need to redraw her as well as other current assets ,because yes,I need to have spme default assets to put it on steam.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#5  December 22, 2017, 09:14:51 pm
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Could you show some pics from it? Or maybe a vid with your test character in action? ö.ö

Btw. how did you get scammed into creating a fighting game engine? ö_Ö
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#6  December 22, 2017, 10:04:45 pm
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Got some preguntas.

1. Got any vids so we can see what to expect?

2. How would you compare it to mugen?

3. What modes are built in, any tag or tournament?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#7  December 23, 2017, 07:45:00 pm
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Antoher thing I would like to know is, what makes it worth buying it instead of using Mugen for free? What kind of better featues does it has etc.?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#8  December 23, 2017, 11:07:37 pm
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Can I just send $10 directly to you to help more so you don't lose a cut? Or would it help more to buy it on steam? Like popularity of downloads assisting or something?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#9  December 24, 2017, 06:53:37 am
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Got some preguntas.

1. Got any vids so we can see what to expect?

2. How would you compare it to mugen?

3. What modes are built in, any tag or tournament?

Thanks, those are some really good questions, I typed an answer right away yesterday at work (sinse the servers were down), but te proxy killed my post after I hit reply (yeah, that thing about the servers being down, lol) Anyway , will reply again.

1.  While taking new vids is just a mater of setting up some video recording software and recording some gameplay, I'd prefer to keep the vids lowkey because of the assets I am currently using , until I can get/crate more assets that are better for public showcase, so later I will post  some videos, my first interest is to maketeh documentation mor readable, then post it there so I can start modifying it (the current versions of the documentation were made intended for peopel who are already familiar with mugen)

2. nekoconeko was originally created with the intention to make full games; it was also coded from the ground up in a most optimal way for that instead of being made as a mugen clone per se; so there is no compatibility with mugen characters; it's similar in the sense that it uses configuration files for stages, games and characters (stages also have proper script, so menues, screens and stages all can have script code which is the same as a character's).
the script code itself, while it has less sctrls than mugen it has different ones and are there to be useful, for examples, it has named variables, string type variables,  loops and if conditions , states are named instead of being numbers, an useful thing is that states can have parents, which work ina  way similar to templates, very useful for htidefs so you can have a generic hitdeftype  for hard attacks and only define/change  the pareameters that change for the standing strong and the crouching strong. Th jump/walk logic is softcoded, so you can have up be walk up and put the jump in a button, useful for arena style fighting along with a stage with depth, or use like a traditional fighting game for jumping.

It also has learning ai based on move descriptors (an as advantage of the code architecture is relatively simple for me to change a few parameters around so you can script the ai in the traditional way, if enough people request the feature), story mode and menu support is also there, support for layers (which could be used for morphing, but IIRc I let an even simpler way off for that with palettes since they can completely swap out the whole spritesheet ).

A way to put it, is that it is a simpler, redesigned mugen to avoid using a lot of code contortions that make some mugen hard to read while at the same time, providing enough power to create games, it would be interesting to see what a comunity comes out with if thye want to use in a similar wya to mugen (plug and play characters and other assets into it).

3. current game modes are arcade, versus, training, aivsai and netplay versus. Did nto think about tournament and tag, back then, but that's somethign interesting to look at.


Antoher thing I would like to know is, what makes it worth buying it instead of using Mugen for free? What kind of better featues does it has etc.?

One big advantage is that, development is continuing, meaning that depending on input from the comunity, new things can get added to the engine to optimize development and gameplay.

Can I just send $10 directly to you to help more so you don't lose a cut? Or would it help more to buy it on steam? Like popularity of downloads assisting or something?

well, not knowing how steam keys work (and I'd rather put up with whatever piracy tha put much extra effort into drm) ,  I'd still say yes, since paypal etc.. takes only a 20% or smaller cut, compared to steam's 50%.

the current roadmap is to finish the documentation (got pretty busy with xmas stuff ), then look into / design a die to develop content for the engine,  mostly to define some soft standars on hwo to import content to the engine (games , characters , stages) as well as modify said content in a more organized matter.  Right now everythign is easy to modify for someone "techincal" (aka anybody who has created at least one mugen stage ) as json is just a text format and the sprite files are png sheeets, but i'd rather make something that makes that easier to handle, particularly the animation files.

There is also the need ,a s mentioned in the first point in the answer to memo to clean up the sprite resources ( I will probabyl look into handdrawing something ) so it cna be properly put in steam (it'd be a really fun project for me to make a character generator so it can actualyl compete in the same level as rpgmaker ).
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#10  December 24, 2017, 07:20:17 am
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I support this 101%

I'm always curious about limitations with these engines
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#11  December 24, 2017, 11:06:58 am
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Are there going to be stage interactivity, a dedicated pause menu, horizontal environment shake instead of just vertical (something that JNP asked once) and no custom state bugs in it?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#12  December 24, 2017, 11:27:06 am
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Quote
(stages also have proper script, so menues, screens and stages all can have script code which is the same as a character's).
I liked this. Sounds more like OpenBor than Mugen.

When you say "png sheet" you mean the engine will use sprite atlas (a single image with all sprites) rather than separated images? If so, this sounds cool.

Dunno if you ever heard about OpenBor, but there are some cool ideas you can borrow from it. For example, specific pain reactions (burn pain, burn knockdown, rise from burn, death from burn), damage over time (poison), alternate models (aka transformations). In OpenBor, you can just point the name of separated characters to transform to and you are done - no bugs in custom states. You even have index for each alternate models.

I can point you some other things if you have interest.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#13  December 24, 2017, 01:48:09 pm
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Can you have a like beat em up and a fighting game section?

Also does it support multiplayer?
SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#14  December 24, 2017, 03:04:06 pm
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My only question at the moment - Is it planned to support some kind of story mode?

Good luck guys, this seems to be promising. Hopefully I'll be able to give some support as progress goes;
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#15  December 24, 2017, 09:59:31 pm
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Are there going to be stage interactivity, a dedicated pause menu, horizontal environment shake instead of just vertical (something that JNP asked once) and no custom state bugs in it?

I don't remember if I already coded a way to pause the game, but menues are already in; they key configuration menu is a scene that has menu elements (everything configurable in the stage file) and for history a scene can create another scene to receive input. stage interactivity, yes, it depends on how much it's needed, but stages can be identified and they can run code as the engine is now.

no shakes are there yet, I will add cam shake if enough people ask for it; custom states are a more interesting proposition, as customs attes per se don't exist in the engine as it was made with full games in mind, so the way grabs, etc.. work is putting them in the common code files (which can be more than one) while having those call the apropiate animations, again, no need to worry about numbers so you can have stuff like character.grab fo the animation/code definition. I know the latest is probably one of those thign that will need more added to them if people want to use this like mugen and plug and play characters in it, to provide a cleaner interface to create grabs, I personally prefer to ignore how mugen does somethings because otherwise I might end up providing code so people code workarounds instead fo supporting thigns right in the engine which is the preferred method.

Quote
(stages also have proper script, so menues, screens and stages all can have script code which is the same as a character's).
I liked this. Sounds more like OpenBor than Mugen.

When you say "png sheet" you mean the engine will use sprite atlas (a single image with all sprites) rather than separated images? If so, this sounds cool.

Dunno if you ever heard about OpenBor, but there are some cool ideas you can borrow from it. For example, specific pain reactions (burn pain, burn knockdown, rise from burn, death from burn), damage over time (poison), alternate models (aka transformations). In OpenBor, you can just point the name of separated characters to transform to and you are done - no bugs in custom states. You even have index for each alternate models.

yep, characters can use one or more sprite atlas,the current example characters pushes it by having a very unoptimized one for performance testing. I'll have to look into recent sprite atlas tools, because it's a pain in teh as to handle those with no tools. if Ic an't find a good tool that I thing is good for the public, I'll have to code one.

From a  practical standpoint, I don't see how morphing from one character to the other wil be useful (except for making shangtsung) , that does not mean I am closed to that, if there are decent use cases, I can see how to modify the engine to add that. If we are talkign visual only, the sprite file is the palette (depending on the palette mode), so by changin the palette you can change the charcater's looks; another way to do so is using layers, since those are rendered after the character is rendered, autoatically by the engine so you don't have to worry voer coordinating explods.

Can you have a like beat em up and a fighting game section?

Also does it support multiplayer?

yep, you can have a stage be a beat em up and another be a regular fighting game, or change into different game modes as you progress.

about multiplayer it supports both local and netplay; I will have to look into matchmaking (if I get green lighted in steam, I think they provide an API to do so, which, depending on how it works, it can save me a lot of time) to make netplay more useful for most users (the current method requires you to manually type the ip of the person you want to connect to).

My only question at the moment - Is it planned to support some kind of story mode?

yep, it alreayd supports history mode, there is this weird thign I did with states, whre they ahve to execution modes, the "60" fps one that we know from mugen anda  sequential one where the engine is stuck in one sctrl until it is explicitly told to go to the next one, the latest is sued for story mode to show the dialogs step by step, as it has dialog sctrls to use the same engine for both fighting and dialogs.

Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#16  December 25, 2017, 12:18:03 am
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Quote
From a  practical standpoint, I don't see how morphing from one character to the other wil be useful (except for making shangtsung)
This is exactly the best example I can give you. Let me show you how it works in OpenBOR (the engine treats is as "weapons"):

Code:
weapons {name1} {name2} {name3} {name4} {name5} {original name}

~This command sets other model which will be used to replace this entity when a weapon is picked up.
~{name#} is the name of the model which this character becomes when they pick up weapon #. # is weapon's number. Don't forget to load the model in models.txt.
~{original name} is the name of the character when it doesn't have any weapons equipped.
~If {name#} is filled with none, this entity can't pick respective weapon.

The "models.txt" is a file (kinda like a select.def but extended) where you name all the entities avaiable to the game.

So it could be something like:

Quote
submodel sub_zero scorpion kano shang_tsung
The last one would be the default character, which you an revert back.

With this, you can give the name of already loaded characters so we can simply change from one character to another. Its not only cosmetic, but a whole new character (images, sounds, codes, etc). Think about the possibilities...

Quote
no shakes are there yet, I will add cam shake if enough people ask for it;
Please, do it.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#17  December 25, 2017, 12:30:06 am
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(it'd be a really fun project for me to make a character generator so it can actualyl compete in the same level as rpgmaker ).
That sounds amazing. *_*

From a  practical standpoint, I don't see how morphing from one character to the other wil be useful (except for making shangtsung) , that does not mean I am closed to that, if there are decent use cases, I can see how to modify the engine to add that. If we are talkign visual only, the sprite file is the palette (depending on the palette mode), so by changin the palette you can change the charcater's looks; another way to do so is using layers, since those are rendered after the character is rendered, autoatically by the engine so you don't have to worry voer coordinating explods.

Mh It could be used to create specific Boss Characters that morph into there "Full power form" only in the Final Round, like for example Kagami from the Last Blade.

Another question will your engine support real character unlocking? Like for example if I win enough perfect matches with character X then I would unlock character Y?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#18  December 25, 2017, 01:03:33 am
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Can you have a like beat em up and a fighting game section?

yep, you can have a stage be a beat em up and another be a regular fighting game, or change into different game modes as you progress.

That's cool. I always dreamed of something like a Story mode for the beat em up section where you unlock stuff as you progress in the fighting game VS section. The fighting game section would have the regular 1 VS 1 player and another having 4 players.


Also does it support multiplayer?
about multiplayer it supports both local and netplay; I will have to look into matchmaking (if I get green lighted in steam, I think they provide an API to do so, which, depending on how it works, it can save me a lot of time) to make netplay more useful for most users (the current method requires you to manually type the ip of the person you want to connect to).

What's the maximum number of players? 4 or 8 players?
SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#19  December 25, 2017, 02:57:22 am
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That's cool. I always dreamed of something like a Story mode for the beat em up section where you unlock stuff as you progress in the fighting game VS section. The fighting game section would have the regular 1 VS 1 player and another having 4 players.

What's the maximum number of players? 4 or 8 players?

Right now I have 1 versus 1 (characters) coded in; it should be trivial to add ore onscreen fighters because of the whole idea of making it beat em up compatible.
tho adding more than two players is a more interesting proposition (also, because of netplay ), but I see the necesity of that for beat em up.

(it'd be a really fun project for me to make a character generator so it can actualyl compete in the same level as rpgmaker ).
That sounds amazing. *_*

Another question will your engine support real character unlocking? Like for example if I win enough perfect matches with character X then I would unlock character Y?

well, the character generator comes after bug fixes and some extra features, I have to prioritize stuff, but a regular character /content maker is high priority. about character unlocking, it's alreayd there ; a shallow explanation is taht the game has gamevariables and anything that can execute scripts can write/read to those variables, so you just add to a game variable  when you have a perfect win, then in the select screen , you show the extra character slot once a certain amount of  perfect wins has been reached.

Code:
weapons {name1} {name2} {name3} {name4} {name5} {original name}

~This command sets other model which will be used to replace this entity when a weapon is picked up.
~{name#} is the name of the model which this character becomes when they pick up weapon #. # is weapon's number. Don't forget to load the model in models.txt.
~{original name} is the name of the character when it doesn't have any weapons equipped.
~If {name#} is filled with none, this entity can't pick respective weapon.
The "models.txt" is a file (kinda like a select.def but extended) where you name all the entities avaiable to the game.

I sse, so it uses it as way to support changing weapons, dunno fi it's optimal but that is someting to think about (because it changes code, not just sprites).
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#20  December 25, 2017, 05:35:35 am
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Right now I have 1 versus 1 (characters) coded in; it should be trivial to add ore onscreen fighters because of the whole idea of making it beat em up compatible.
tho adding more than two players is a more interesting proposition (also, because of netplay ), but I see the necesity of that for beat em up.

I'm assuming plane shifting(Fatal Fury 3, Guardian Heroes, MMPR, Yuyu Hakusho (Genesis), Bleach Dark Souls) is not included. Or is that the coder's job to have those features added in?

And when you answered the question interactive stages does that include World Heroes' Death Match mode?
SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 11:10:31 am by rgveda99