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Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine) (Read 29965 times)

Started by Bastard Mami, December 21, 2017, 07:40:40 pm
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Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#1  December 21, 2017, 07:40:40 pm
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Tl;dr, i got scammed into creating a fighting game engine, so i want to recover some of my investment on it.

I created a fighting game engine for a company that did not come to fruition, since they owe me a huge percentage of the money on the engine I am releasing it to recover some of my down-wages. The engine itself is mostly complete, while focused on fighting games it has wrestling, beat em up, arena support, and if the relase goes well, I plan on supporting development.

The engine uses text files ( json), png files and sound files as resources, characters, backgrounds, select screens are scriptable, so it is similar to mugen, but the state control content is lighter as those got added as they got used.
Now, the plan is to release a version on steam for ten dollars, that version cant be used for commercial projects, right now i am working on formatting the documentation so i might be able to post it here around the weekend.

Feel free to ask any questions or give suggestions.

version 1.5 of the documentation :
http://jolly-kare-8d95f8.bitballoon.com/


Some extra disclosure about myself:

Regarding the engine work, due to lack of payments I kept on slowing down to work secondary jobs to make ends meet, so in the past few months I have not even touched it, so that is why some of my answers come up like "If I remember", etc... The computer in  which I had the source code even spent a few months in a pawn shop (but once I maaged tog et another job I unpawned the computer and recovered the source code).
More into my programming experience, while some know me for my my mugen stuff, I have been coding engines profesionally since 2010, disregarding the reseach/work on them I did before as a side project. most of the time it was engines for business apps, but what might be more relevant there is that I am used to developing engines, handling requests for the improvement, etc...
Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 12:49:35 am by Bastard Mami
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#2  December 21, 2017, 07:47:58 pm
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So is it's flagship character Kung Fu Neko? Mui-Thai Neko?

How or what gave them the name for it? Is it's default theme all... Anime? Will it be heavily centered in one part of the world?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#3  December 21, 2017, 07:51:11 pm
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It's an engine, Bluecat

The name is probably down to the creator being a big weeb
There's a race to be on top
The competition doesn't stop
Mixing with the ladies fair
being charming debonair
The gang will reign supreme
And no one can deny
They'll make some history
And always have an alibi
So join in the jubilee
The cats are great they'll all agree
Find in each calamity
the cat's superiority
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#4  December 21, 2017, 08:09:38 pm
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Yup, the name is place holder until/if i find a better one, as far as characters goes i designed a hort haired, athletic girl as the test character but i might need to redraw her as well as other current assets ,because yes,I need to have spme default assets to put it on steam.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#5  December 22, 2017, 09:14:51 pm
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Could you show some pics from it? Or maybe a vid with your test character in action? ö.ö

Btw. how did you get scammed into creating a fighting game engine? ö_Ö
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#6  December 22, 2017, 10:04:45 pm
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Got some preguntas.

1. Got any vids so we can see what to expect?

2. How would you compare it to mugen?

3. What modes are built in, any tag or tournament?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#7  December 23, 2017, 07:45:00 pm
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Antoher thing I would like to know is, what makes it worth buying it instead of using Mugen for free? What kind of better featues does it has etc.?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#8  December 23, 2017, 11:07:37 pm
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Can I just send $10 directly to you to help more so you don't lose a cut? Or would it help more to buy it on steam? Like popularity of downloads assisting or something?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#9  December 24, 2017, 06:53:37 am
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Got some preguntas.

1. Got any vids so we can see what to expect?

2. How would you compare it to mugen?

3. What modes are built in, any tag or tournament?

Thanks, those are some really good questions, I typed an answer right away yesterday at work (sinse the servers were down), but te proxy killed my post after I hit reply (yeah, that thing about the servers being down, lol) Anyway , will reply again.

1.  While taking new vids is just a mater of setting up some video recording software and recording some gameplay, I'd prefer to keep the vids lowkey because of the assets I am currently using , until I can get/crate more assets that are better for public showcase, so later I will post  some videos, my first interest is to maketeh documentation mor readable, then post it there so I can start modifying it (the current versions of the documentation were made intended for peopel who are already familiar with mugen)

2. nekoconeko was originally created with the intention to make full games; it was also coded from the ground up in a most optimal way for that instead of being made as a mugen clone per se; so there is no compatibility with mugen characters; it's similar in the sense that it uses configuration files for stages, games and characters (stages also have proper script, so menues, screens and stages all can have script code which is the same as a character's).
the script code itself, while it has less sctrls than mugen it has different ones and are there to be useful, for examples, it has named variables, string type variables,  loops and if conditions , states are named instead of being numbers, an useful thing is that states can have parents, which work ina  way similar to templates, very useful for htidefs so you can have a generic hitdeftype  for hard attacks and only define/change  the pareameters that change for the standing strong and the crouching strong. Th jump/walk logic is softcoded, so you can have up be walk up and put the jump in a button, useful for arena style fighting along with a stage with depth, or use like a traditional fighting game for jumping.

It also has learning ai based on move descriptors (an as advantage of the code architecture is relatively simple for me to change a few parameters around so you can script the ai in the traditional way, if enough people request the feature), story mode and menu support is also there, support for layers (which could be used for morphing, but IIRc I let an even simpler way off for that with palettes since they can completely swap out the whole spritesheet ).

A way to put it, is that it is a simpler, redesigned mugen to avoid using a lot of code contortions that make some mugen hard to read while at the same time, providing enough power to create games, it would be interesting to see what a comunity comes out with if thye want to use in a similar wya to mugen (plug and play characters and other assets into it).

3. current game modes are arcade, versus, training, aivsai and netplay versus. Did nto think about tournament and tag, back then, but that's somethign interesting to look at.


Antoher thing I would like to know is, what makes it worth buying it instead of using Mugen for free? What kind of better featues does it has etc.?

One big advantage is that, development is continuing, meaning that depending on input from the comunity, new things can get added to the engine to optimize development and gameplay.

Can I just send $10 directly to you to help more so you don't lose a cut? Or would it help more to buy it on steam? Like popularity of downloads assisting or something?

well, not knowing how steam keys work (and I'd rather put up with whatever piracy tha put much extra effort into drm) ,  I'd still say yes, since paypal etc.. takes only a 20% or smaller cut, compared to steam's 50%.

the current roadmap is to finish the documentation (got pretty busy with xmas stuff ), then look into / design a die to develop content for the engine,  mostly to define some soft standars on hwo to import content to the engine (games , characters , stages) as well as modify said content in a more organized matter.  Right now everythign is easy to modify for someone "techincal" (aka anybody who has created at least one mugen stage ) as json is just a text format and the sprite files are png sheeets, but i'd rather make something that makes that easier to handle, particularly the animation files.

There is also the need ,a s mentioned in the first point in the answer to memo to clean up the sprite resources ( I will probabyl look into handdrawing something ) so it cna be properly put in steam (it'd be a really fun project for me to make a character generator so it can actualyl compete in the same level as rpgmaker ).
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#10  December 24, 2017, 07:20:17 am
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I support this 101%

I'm always curious about limitations with these engines
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#11  December 24, 2017, 11:06:58 am
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Are there going to be stage interactivity, a dedicated pause menu, horizontal environment shake instead of just vertical (something that JNP asked once) and no custom state bugs in it?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#12  December 24, 2017, 11:27:06 am
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Quote
(stages also have proper script, so menues, screens and stages all can have script code which is the same as a character's).
I liked this. Sounds more like OpenBor than Mugen.

When you say "png sheet" you mean the engine will use sprite atlas (a single image with all sprites) rather than separated images? If so, this sounds cool.

Dunno if you ever heard about OpenBor, but there are some cool ideas you can borrow from it. For example, specific pain reactions (burn pain, burn knockdown, rise from burn, death from burn), damage over time (poison), alternate models (aka transformations). In OpenBor, you can just point the name of separated characters to transform to and you are done - no bugs in custom states. You even have index for each alternate models.

I can point you some other things if you have interest.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#13  December 24, 2017, 01:48:09 pm
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Can you have a like beat em up and a fighting game section?

Also does it support multiplayer?
SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#14  December 24, 2017, 03:04:06 pm
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My only question at the moment - Is it planned to support some kind of story mode?

Good luck guys, this seems to be promising. Hopefully I'll be able to give some support as progress goes;
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#15  December 24, 2017, 09:59:31 pm
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Are there going to be stage interactivity, a dedicated pause menu, horizontal environment shake instead of just vertical (something that JNP asked once) and no custom state bugs in it?

I don't remember if I already coded a way to pause the game, but menues are already in; they key configuration menu is a scene that has menu elements (everything configurable in the stage file) and for history a scene can create another scene to receive input. stage interactivity, yes, it depends on how much it's needed, but stages can be identified and they can run code as the engine is now.

no shakes are there yet, I will add cam shake if enough people ask for it; custom states are a more interesting proposition, as customs attes per se don't exist in the engine as it was made with full games in mind, so the way grabs, etc.. work is putting them in the common code files (which can be more than one) while having those call the apropiate animations, again, no need to worry about numbers so you can have stuff like character.grab fo the animation/code definition. I know the latest is probably one of those thign that will need more added to them if people want to use this like mugen and plug and play characters in it, to provide a cleaner interface to create grabs, I personally prefer to ignore how mugen does somethings because otherwise I might end up providing code so people code workarounds instead fo supporting thigns right in the engine which is the preferred method.

Quote
(stages also have proper script, so menues, screens and stages all can have script code which is the same as a character's).
I liked this. Sounds more like OpenBor than Mugen.

When you say "png sheet" you mean the engine will use sprite atlas (a single image with all sprites) rather than separated images? If so, this sounds cool.

Dunno if you ever heard about OpenBor, but there are some cool ideas you can borrow from it. For example, specific pain reactions (burn pain, burn knockdown, rise from burn, death from burn), damage over time (poison), alternate models (aka transformations). In OpenBor, you can just point the name of separated characters to transform to and you are done - no bugs in custom states. You even have index for each alternate models.

yep, characters can use one or more sprite atlas,the current example characters pushes it by having a very unoptimized one for performance testing. I'll have to look into recent sprite atlas tools, because it's a pain in teh as to handle those with no tools. if Ic an't find a good tool that I thing is good for the public, I'll have to code one.

From a  practical standpoint, I don't see how morphing from one character to the other wil be useful (except for making shangtsung) , that does not mean I am closed to that, if there are decent use cases, I can see how to modify the engine to add that. If we are talkign visual only, the sprite file is the palette (depending on the palette mode), so by changin the palette you can change the charcater's looks; another way to do so is using layers, since those are rendered after the character is rendered, autoatically by the engine so you don't have to worry voer coordinating explods.

Can you have a like beat em up and a fighting game section?

Also does it support multiplayer?

yep, you can have a stage be a beat em up and another be a regular fighting game, or change into different game modes as you progress.

about multiplayer it supports both local and netplay; I will have to look into matchmaking (if I get green lighted in steam, I think they provide an API to do so, which, depending on how it works, it can save me a lot of time) to make netplay more useful for most users (the current method requires you to manually type the ip of the person you want to connect to).

My only question at the moment - Is it planned to support some kind of story mode?

yep, it alreayd supports history mode, there is this weird thign I did with states, whre they ahve to execution modes, the "60" fps one that we know from mugen anda  sequential one where the engine is stuck in one sctrl until it is explicitly told to go to the next one, the latest is sued for story mode to show the dialogs step by step, as it has dialog sctrls to use the same engine for both fighting and dialogs.

Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#16  December 25, 2017, 12:18:03 am
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Quote
From a  practical standpoint, I don't see how morphing from one character to the other wil be useful (except for making shangtsung)
This is exactly the best example I can give you. Let me show you how it works in OpenBOR (the engine treats is as "weapons"):

Code:
weapons {name1} {name2} {name3} {name4} {name5} {original name}

~This command sets other model which will be used to replace this entity when a weapon is picked up.
~{name#} is the name of the model which this character becomes when they pick up weapon #. # is weapon's number. Don't forget to load the model in models.txt.
~{original name} is the name of the character when it doesn't have any weapons equipped.
~If {name#} is filled with none, this entity can't pick respective weapon.

The "models.txt" is a file (kinda like a select.def but extended) where you name all the entities avaiable to the game.

So it could be something like:

Quote
submodel sub_zero scorpion kano shang_tsung
The last one would be the default character, which you an revert back.

With this, you can give the name of already loaded characters so we can simply change from one character to another. Its not only cosmetic, but a whole new character (images, sounds, codes, etc). Think about the possibilities...

Quote
no shakes are there yet, I will add cam shake if enough people ask for it;
Please, do it.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#17  December 25, 2017, 12:30:06 am
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(it'd be a really fun project for me to make a character generator so it can actualyl compete in the same level as rpgmaker ).
That sounds amazing. *_*

From a  practical standpoint, I don't see how morphing from one character to the other wil be useful (except for making shangtsung) , that does not mean I am closed to that, if there are decent use cases, I can see how to modify the engine to add that. If we are talkign visual only, the sprite file is the palette (depending on the palette mode), so by changin the palette you can change the charcater's looks; another way to do so is using layers, since those are rendered after the character is rendered, autoatically by the engine so you don't have to worry voer coordinating explods.

Mh It could be used to create specific Boss Characters that morph into there "Full power form" only in the Final Round, like for example Kagami from the Last Blade.

Another question will your engine support real character unlocking? Like for example if I win enough perfect matches with character X then I would unlock character Y?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#18  December 25, 2017, 01:03:33 am
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Can you have a like beat em up and a fighting game section?

yep, you can have a stage be a beat em up and another be a regular fighting game, or change into different game modes as you progress.

That's cool. I always dreamed of something like a Story mode for the beat em up section where you unlock stuff as you progress in the fighting game VS section. The fighting game section would have the regular 1 VS 1 player and another having 4 players.


Also does it support multiplayer?
about multiplayer it supports both local and netplay; I will have to look into matchmaking (if I get green lighted in steam, I think they provide an API to do so, which, depending on how it works, it can save me a lot of time) to make netplay more useful for most users (the current method requires you to manually type the ip of the person you want to connect to).

What's the maximum number of players? 4 or 8 players?
SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#19  December 25, 2017, 02:57:22 am
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That's cool. I always dreamed of something like a Story mode for the beat em up section where you unlock stuff as you progress in the fighting game VS section. The fighting game section would have the regular 1 VS 1 player and another having 4 players.

What's the maximum number of players? 4 or 8 players?

Right now I have 1 versus 1 (characters) coded in; it should be trivial to add ore onscreen fighters because of the whole idea of making it beat em up compatible.
tho adding more than two players is a more interesting proposition (also, because of netplay ), but I see the necesity of that for beat em up.

(it'd be a really fun project for me to make a character generator so it can actualyl compete in the same level as rpgmaker ).
That sounds amazing. *_*

Another question will your engine support real character unlocking? Like for example if I win enough perfect matches with character X then I would unlock character Y?

well, the character generator comes after bug fixes and some extra features, I have to prioritize stuff, but a regular character /content maker is high priority. about character unlocking, it's alreayd there ; a shallow explanation is taht the game has gamevariables and anything that can execute scripts can write/read to those variables, so you just add to a game variable  when you have a perfect win, then in the select screen , you show the extra character slot once a certain amount of  perfect wins has been reached.

Code:
weapons {name1} {name2} {name3} {name4} {name5} {original name}

~This command sets other model which will be used to replace this entity when a weapon is picked up.
~{name#} is the name of the model which this character becomes when they pick up weapon #. # is weapon's number. Don't forget to load the model in models.txt.
~{original name} is the name of the character when it doesn't have any weapons equipped.
~If {name#} is filled with none, this entity can't pick respective weapon.
The "models.txt" is a file (kinda like a select.def but extended) where you name all the entities avaiable to the game.

I sse, so it uses it as way to support changing weapons, dunno fi it's optimal but that is someting to think about (because it changes code, not just sprites).
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#20  December 25, 2017, 05:35:35 am
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Right now I have 1 versus 1 (characters) coded in; it should be trivial to add ore onscreen fighters because of the whole idea of making it beat em up compatible.
tho adding more than two players is a more interesting proposition (also, because of netplay ), but I see the necesity of that for beat em up.

I'm assuming plane shifting(Fatal Fury 3, Guardian Heroes, MMPR, Yuyu Hakusho (Genesis), Bleach Dark Souls) is not included. Or is that the coder's job to have those features added in?

And when you answered the question interactive stages does that include World Heroes' Death Match mode?
SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 11:10:31 am by rgveda99
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#21  December 25, 2017, 09:46:31 pm
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yeah, it should be pretty simple since it's just moving in the already existing 3d plane so I don't see  the need to add something in the engine; world heroes style interactive stages should be doable, yep just create the dangers as projectiles or some other kind of object in the stage's script. Tho, I odn't remember if I kept the code so there can be a third "side", a side is where do the characters belong to so so your own projectiles can't hit you, tho there is alrady a change side sctrl anyway, for projectile reflection.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#22  December 25, 2017, 10:15:58 pm
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Can there be more complex coding for lifebars? Like having them be Mario 64 or Bart's Nightmare styled circular orientation or vertical like Mega Man games? Or just a number? Or like in Street Fighter 2 where the K.O. graphic in the center flashes when someone's health is low? Or a score system?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#23  December 26, 2017, 03:19:11 am
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I guess what's needed is more flexibilty and having the ability to have options on the character select screen (groove/striker select and animations ala Marvel Super Heroes )and in between round cutscenes like being able to select your opponent in SF3.

I can see this having an RPG like section for the Story mode and have mini games in it.
SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#24  December 26, 2017, 03:28:48 am
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That sounds very easy to implement, as in, with the stuff the engine already has it can be done , I think that will come more clear once I post the documentation; curently I am in the "sctrls" section , after that I write/format expressions and debugging, which are short, but the next seciton which is an exmaple of how to create some stuff (a game) is longer and I feel tempted to split it as a different document.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#25  December 26, 2017, 05:58:28 am
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Double post because it's an important post.

First, I managed to finish another version of the documentation, it's in html s it's mor readable, only the last seciton is left, though, it's about as long as the rest of the document. it can be read there:

http://jolly-kare-8d95f8.bitballoon.com/

I hope that answers/creates more questions. I will rest a few days (will keep on posting in this topic, ) because I have been working from 8am until  11 pm for two weeks straight now, before resuming to work on version 1.6 of the documentation.

Second, this is a bit of a disclosure post, it's obvious because of the documentation anyway; regarding the engine work, due to lack of payments I kept on slowing down to work secondary jobs to make ends meet, so in the past few months I have not even touched it, so that is why some of my answers come up like "If I remember", etc... The computer in  which I had the source code even spent a few months in a pawn shop (but once I maaged tog et another job I unpawned the computer and recovered the source code).
More into my programming experience, while some know me for my my mugen stuff, I have been coding engines profesionally since 2010, disregarding the reseach/work on them I did before as a side project. most of the time it was engines for business apps, but what might be more relevant there is that I am used to developing engines, handling requests for the improvement, etc...

Also, first post udpated with this info.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#26  December 26, 2017, 06:21:33 am
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I've been lurking in the shadows patiently waiting for you to post some photos or videos showcasing the engine, so i decided to check out the document and my malwarebytes blocked the document site you linked.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#27  December 26, 2017, 09:15:53 pm
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Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#28  December 26, 2017, 11:54:31 pm
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Interesting Basara!
I really like the fact this can be used for a lot of different games types!

I can't wait to see some progress on it / gamplay perhaps.

I presume it supports only 2D graphics... Just asking.

Anyway, keep it up!

I want to hug you...
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#29  December 27, 2017, 01:22:02 am
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Well, what is mentioned in the documentation is already working, tho I understand the need to see something since right now it's just words. I will try to do some cleanup on the project so I can record a video of the engine in action even if it's not using the best assets atm.

I did a re-read of the documentation as I have been formatting and is of my opinion that section 8 really needs some cleanup; also it's missing stuff on how to create basic objects like characters and backgrounds. Though I alreayd ahve a small IDe, it's mostly only useful to create the animation file based on al arleady existing sprite sheet file, sicne sprite sheet tools are alreayd a thing that exist, tho, judging by the hardships I had to put up with while creating the sprite sheets and converting to animation files even with an IDE, making the IDE so it can also create sprite sheets might be necesary.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#30  December 27, 2017, 01:26:53 am
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would you be able to code "platform like" stages with walls (hyrule temple from ssb64 for example) (arena mode)
anyway lookin forward to this project !
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#31  December 27, 2017, 05:06:39 am
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the stages have a "polygon" that defines when youa re inside or outside the stage (posadd, etc.. won't allow you to go offstage) , so in a sense it can have walls, what id does not has is variable floor height, tho the turnbucklers aer some kind of extra floor height.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#32  December 27, 2017, 05:49:11 am
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Will that be a problem for elevator type stages both fighting and beat em up?
SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#33  December 27, 2017, 05:59:32 am
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it depends, IIRc most beat em ups have the elevator stages not moving on the Z axis at all, just have the background scrolling down. Using reverse logic is very useful in programming.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#34  December 27, 2017, 10:02:08 am
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What did you write this engine in? Looks interesting. Sorry about what happened to you by the way.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#35  December 27, 2017, 10:40:42 am
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Make it so you can move the camera past the walls of the stage in an assertspecial sort of way. A move I coded imitates a portal effect by making a black bg with a hole so you can see the stage through it. In MUGEN I have to reposition the chars and the hole due to the walls.

Also a destroy hitsparks sctrl!
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#36  December 27, 2017, 12:12:19 pm
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Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#37  December 27, 2017, 12:55:47 pm
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Sorry to hear what happened, but about the engine itself I reaaly like what I read.
Two questions, is the engine able to cut sprites in-game to make a move like that one from Basara that sinks the opponent?
The second one is the price for the commercial license, I know you may not have a price set in stone but you may have an vague idea already.
Good luck!
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Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#38  December 27, 2017, 12:58:45 pm
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Consider myself interested in this engine. Who knows? It might replace MUGEN for all of our custom fighting game needs!

Two questions to ask about the engine and development in general:

1.) How easy will it be for someone to code for the engine and its characters? Could I, in theory, use notepad for all of my coding, or will I need special programs to do so?

2.) Are you allowed to release the engine like this without the sponsoring company's input? I wanted to ask since we all do not want you to get into legal trouble with the original company for breaching contracts or any legal agreements. Releasing work developed for other companies is serious business.
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Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#39  December 27, 2017, 06:13:52 pm
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and the proxy server hit again >.<

What did you write this engine in? Looks interesting. Sorry about what happened to you by the way.

Thanks.
C# and the monogame frame work; the latest makes it possible to port it to other OSes, which while being not something trivial, is still in the realm of doable things.

Make it so you can move the camera past the walls of the stage in an assertspecial sort of way. A move I coded imitates a portal effect by making a black bg with a hole so you can see the stage through it. In MUGEN I have to reposition the chars and the hole due to the walls.

Also a destroy hitsparks sctrl!
Well, rather than an assert special, what was planned was to have sctrls that directly manipulate the camera.

I don't know what would a destroyhitspark sctrl would be used for, so I'd look first into what you want to accomplish with what is currently here, and if it's doable in an easy way so be it, if the way to do it is too complex (what I call cns gymnastics in mugen) that's when something new gets added.

Sorry to hear what happened, but about the engine itself I reaaly like what I read.
Two questions, is the engine able to cut sprites in-game to make a move like that one from Basara that sinks the opponent?
The second one is the price for the commercial license, I know you may not have a price set in stone but you may have an vague idea already.
Good luck!
Thanks.
1) nope, not yet, I don't know if doing some tricks with what it already had that is doable, but anyway in this case, this is the second time masks are mentioned to me since I went public and I get the feeling they will be pretty necesary so they are likely to get added down the road.

2) yep, I have not gone into much tought, it depends a lot on the reach of the game and the necessity of the licensor to add more stuff to the engine. that would be more of a case by case basis rather than having a stuck in stone price.

Consider myself interested in this engine. Who knows? It might replace MUGEN for all of our custom fighting game needs!

Two questions to ask about the engine and development in general:

1.) How easy will it be for someone to code for the engine and its characters? Could I, in theory, use notepad for all of my coding, or will I need special programs to do so?

2.) Are you allowed to release the engine like this without the sponsoring company's input? I wanted to ask since we all do not want you to get into legal trouble with the original company for breaching contracts or any legal agreements. Releasing work developed for other companies is serious business.

1) around the same difficulty as creating mugen content , I hope easier eventually (and if it's easier right now, that's better). JSOn text files, if properly formatted are as easy to edit as a normal text file (they are similar to mugen's X=Y sctrls except that they are between ""), I tried using a json editor and found it even easier to just use a text editor. if you can edit mguen files in notepad, you can use noyepad here, though I sugegst using notepad++ ( and if you already use another text editor, yeah, that one works too).
now the ones that area  bit more troublesome are the sprite sheets, those are png files, tho, so I used  a sheet maker then sued irfan view to get the sprite coordinates to paste them in the animation file. later I made a small ide to help with that but it's mostly used to draw colission boxes and change animation parameters; so one of the first things to do for me is to design/code an ide that makes it better to add individual sprites to the sheet.


2) the company was a new company (and not yet legally created as such) by a an old friend of mine, we did nto sign any contracts or anything as I trusted him (I am using him for legal reasons) back then  to not worry about being scammed. I got paid less than 20% of the agreed salary until I got my current job so if there were contracts or anything I'd be suing my ex-employeer rather than being sued myself.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#40  December 27, 2017, 06:26:09 pm
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I'm liking a lot of the features and ideas described so far.

I'd probably buy it either way regardless of needing it due to how you were treated.  Had my fair share of shady partnerships in terms of indie development.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#41  December 27, 2017, 07:11:16 pm
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and the proxy server hit again >.<
Well, rather than an assert special, what was planned was to have sctrls that directly manipulate the camera.

I don't know what would a destroyhitspark sctrl would be used for, so I'd look first into what you want to accomplish with what is currently here, and if it's doable in an easy way so be it, if the way to do it is too complex (what I call cns gymnastics in mugen) that's when something new gets added.
This is the issue. Being able to change layering of sparks could be useful too.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#42  December 27, 2017, 07:30:39 pm
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Ah, so modify the spark as if it was a explod/effect ? so you don't have to resort to using explods to have hitspark behaviour (kind of what we do in mugen by using helpers as projectiles)?

sounds interesting, like having a spark id, woul be very easy but it gets some added compelxity by a hitdef beign able to generate more than one spark , so specifying a spark Id parameter has a (small)limitation (since it can always be an expresion).

I'm liking a lot of the features and ideas described so far.

I'd probably buy it either way regardless of needing it due to how you were treated.  Had my fair share of shady partnerships in terms of indie development.

Thanks
Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 12:16:36 am by Bastard Mami
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#43  December 27, 2017, 08:16:15 pm
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Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#44  December 28, 2017, 12:20:34 am
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Yup, giving an id to hitsparks and killing them, with the option of killing them all if no id is given sounds like the proper solution. so the hitdef would have a _hitsparkId parameter, if a hitdef produces more than one hitspark the id can accept expressions , tho I think the way htidef trigger (by providing them a list of animation frames) might need to change, or I coudl simply revaluate the hitdef's parameters per active frame, both are easy.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#45  December 28, 2017, 01:47:58 am
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A short Question, how interactive can stages be? is it Possible to have some things like water splashes on water stages and different kinds of "dust" and sound effects different kind of stages? (Like in Last Blade with leaves, dust, snow and water etc.?)
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#46  December 28, 2017, 02:23:00 am
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What did you write this engine in? Looks interesting. Sorry about what happened to you by the way.

Thanks.
C# and the monogame frame work; the latest makes it possible to port it to other OSes, which while being not something trivial, is still in the realm of doable things.

C# and the monogame frame work

C#

Really now! What are your plans?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#47  December 28, 2017, 05:30:29 am
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heh, I don't follow your question , care to ask again (or more like, I kind of understand the question but the quoting of C#  throws me off)?
Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 04:18:47 pm by Bastard Mami
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#48  December 28, 2017, 09:01:13 am
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I'll gladly donate but I can only  either send with Solid Trust Pay or Bitcoin.
SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#49  December 28, 2017, 07:15:27 pm
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Thanks, I will see what can be done with that, I got a bitcoin account /wallet when Iw as trying to get paid before, so I will look into the account details when I get home (I don't know about Solid trust pay,, will look into it).

now, onto more news/info, I just finished re-reading all the old documentation I have from the three previous years, it contained botha  list fo what's already been done , bug fixes and ides on what to do next. that also reminded that the engine was going t o get used for a wrestling game at first, so there is "turnbuckler" object support (if you made it to that point in the manual I alreayd posted, it also mentions them).

Now, what they are used for is that the stage spawns them, based on the configuration file , they are like the posts that hold the ring ropes in wrestling matches and the fighters can climb them ; there are triggers to detect how close they are so the climbing state can get triggered; once you climb it, the height changes as if you are standing there and the statetype also changes so only attacks that are supossed to hit you when you are there do hit you (as well as having you react differently when you get hit).

I hope that explains their overall behaviour. Now as explained, they feel very wrestling focused now, but the code for them is already there renaming them to something else is trivial (so they are not named turnbucklers anymore, that brings back bad memories), but rather than also takign them off the code, I want ideas on how to keep them, or even expand them so they are more useful for fighting/brawler, etc... games .

Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#50  December 29, 2017, 05:25:24 pm
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This is a bump to announce that I am releasing the sprite set of the prototype character for the engine; she was designed to be internal use only and not to be used in commercial projects; if you look at the set you will understand why I am not even sure if I can use her as a test character for the steam release of the engine.
I think I need to remake her sprites while using a different set of bases so I can include her in the main release of the engine  since I grew fond of her, by different set of bases I mean, either using a 3d model and draw over the result (I did research on certain techniques to speed that up) or just hand draw the base. As I don't consider myself good enough to draw sprites from 0  (like kotani/snk do)  where using a 3d base (like arcsys, etc..) or sketches (like old capcom) is perfectly valid (note that I mean i a timely manner, as drawing from cero would take me 5 to 10 times longer than using 3d/sketches )

http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/bannou-seikaku-cvs-style-female-character-182361.new.html#new
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#51  December 30, 2017, 03:54:26 am
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Sorry about what happened to you, it sucks to hear you got scammed.

Regardless, this whole engine sounds very interesting, so I'll be following this thread very closely.

Only way to go is up.

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Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#52  December 30, 2017, 01:40:33 pm
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Can you also scale the sprites and backgrounds bigger or smaller?

Like those giant sailors in mugen.

SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 01:50:32 pm by rgveda99
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#53  January 04, 2018, 01:31:41 am
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heh, I don't follow your question , care to ask again (or more like, I kind of understand the question but the quoting of C#  throws me off)?

It means I studied C# in the past. I still do in a way; although my focus is currently on Python at the moment, I intend to eventually shift gears towards further studying C# because I'm learning Unity 5 at the moment. Plus, I had my program switched to a Bachelor's in Game Programming unwillingly because my other program didn't have enough students enrolled.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#54  January 04, 2018, 05:47:38 pm
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C# is nice since it's flexible both because of language features and available libraries, so there is a lot that can be done with it and being part of the C family helps it a lot too.

Can you also scale the sprites and backgrounds bigger or smaller?

Ah, I see, it's not there yet, I just have to stumble upon a use case of that, to prioritize it in the list.


Well, time to talk about plans again.

If all goes well with work, I should get a non temporary position (all hired personnel spends their first 6 months as temporary in this company) in 4 more months, hopefully that comes along with an increase in my salary, , the company also gives bonuses in may-june so that's also an option. The reason I mention that is because I am barely keeping with paying the bills, so getting the 100 usd to pay for a steam release is impossible at the moment m and until may.I considered kick starter but that adds another layer of complexity to this and I prefer to have less headaches, it seems like an early access release in steam is a better option, but I will see when may gets closer.

so, back to the engine, Here is a list things that I need work on.

1) improve the documentation:
the previous document I posted, I consider it complete as long as I take out section 8 and make that one it's own document, since the first 7 sections read like reference manuals and section 8 is more like a tutorial,though there are parts of section 8 that also read like a manual and those will stay.
Make documents regarding individual object creation; how to create a character, a background, etc... I made an account in indiedb as it was suggested to me a a decent place to have those kind of posts. I will see how I mix and match that and the documentation.

2) fix bugs: I got the bug list at home, after I clear it I will prioritize and get started. The bug that bothers me the most is a disappearing sprite one, but I think it's very related to how unoptimized the current sprite sheets are and by making it so the IDE optimizes the sprite sheets this bug should get fixed, as right now the current test game uses multiple 4kx4k sheets  and the bug happens way sooner the weaker the video card is.


3) add new features:
Some have been suggested there, others I have in a list at home, though they are separated by subsystem. Things that I can remember right away:
Be able to modify "explods".
Make the learning AI optional, so a creator can hard code the AI, this also means adding a "pushCommand" sctrl.
Improve the learning AI (this is lower priority because of the previous feature)
Add a tag game mode.
Add a two players cooperative game mode.
Add masking.
Add sprite scaling.

4) create viable assets that I can include with the engine.
Regarding The assets I got those were made for internal use only, not something that can be sold, so I have to change them around for something that I can include in the engine without worries:
The backgrounds come from random games, so I would have to either search for open source-no royalties or make/draw my own
The UI also comes from random games, so I would have to either search for open source-no royalties or make/draw my own (again).
The music is also copyrighted music, same for the sounds, in this case I don't need that much music and I am not a music/sounds creator so I will be searching for it on the web.
The story mode graphics, if no open source are found I will redraw them, that will be fun at least since it is only one character.
Now the painful part is this, I grew fond of this character and would love to reuse her sprites, but since those are based on sprite edits that's most likely not doable and finding an open source full character sprite set that I can sell royalties free seems to be impossible,  so I will have to recreate bannou's whole sprite set, I will probably evaluate whether I use the scanned drawings  or the 3d model 2d render method.
http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/bannou-seikaku-cvs-style-female-character-182361.new.html#new
(I hope I am not missing any type of asset)

The game flow, well I guess I can recycle most of what I already made for the test, I see very little point of making a new one; though I will modify it depending on new features (a feature that has been considered is adding array/list types in the code so a stage list can be used for game flow).

one thing to note is that a friend offered his hand drawn assets, so they are in consideration and I am putting making new assets in the end of my to do list partially because of that.

5) design/create an IDE:
I think this step, will make the engine easier to sell; the IDE will be a program that will directly handle the game files so make editing it easier and depends less on opening a text editor to edit the game files.
One thing I want to, is to make it easy to add characters and background to a game, I will have to see how does steam handle mods (I am in a similar situation for network play), to see how deep do I have to go programming that functionality in the IDE. I also want to improve what I currently have regarding creation of the animation files, so the IDE generates  a better optimized sprite sheet based on individual sprites; as I found it bothersome to work with full sprite sheets while animating characters, I mean when doing the actual drawings, sheets are great for other instances of character creation. The standard method of using a big canvas (320x240 for lo res) with just one sprite then animate by cycling through the images is still the best one in my opinion.
So, there is that and being able to work with individual objects (backgrounds, characters) by opening their definition file in the IDE is also something I want to have.The first stage for this will be to design the IDE, then to prioritize and start coding.






Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#55  January 04, 2018, 10:12:52 pm
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How do the clsn's function, are they like standard mugen only hurt and hit boxes
or do you also have push boxes and guard distance boxes like capcom fighters do?
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#56  January 05, 2018, 12:31:51 am
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The way they work is that you define "generic" collision boxes, then each box has 3 properties: can it hit , can it be hit, can it be grabbed, so you don't need to have separate clsn1 and clsn2, but it's still easy to have them separate as most games do anyway. Grabbed is here to support the logic of being able to add more properties to the boxes; there are no push boxes because of the nature of the first games that were being developed but push boxes are some of the first in the new features list, along uneven hitpauses.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#57  January 05, 2018, 02:35:34 am
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SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#58  January 05, 2018, 05:06:31 am
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Well, the plan is to release the engine and keep on supporting it , particularly as long as more support means more sales, doing the math if I move something like 20 units per month keeping it alive  would be as profitable as my current job on a per day/hour basis (I get paid 25 usd per 10 hours day); add ot that the ethical-commercial way of having a mostly bug free-usuable engine  as I am trying to build a better software portfolio overall.

Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#59  January 05, 2018, 05:14:15 am
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Sounds good.

A question that I had in mind, would it be possible to recreate things like the Ratio System in CvS2 or the the Infinity Gems system in Marvel Super Heroes using Nekoconeko?

Only way to go is up.

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Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#60  January 05, 2018, 05:51:47 am
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I'd need a small explanation on how those work generally before being able to answer, so I can figure a way on how to code those with what is already there and/or figure out what else is necesary.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#61  January 05, 2018, 02:04:30 pm
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If your stage can generate items, then you can code the behaviour of collecting such item inside the characters, so Idon't  think the infinity stuff is that problematic.
The ratio stuff could be a bit tricky, but then again it's just buffing a member of the team, kinda like the Leader system in KOF03/XI.
That’s when I thought, “good grief”
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Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#62  January 05, 2018, 02:16:08 pm
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This is quite interesting, in spring i could provide you some graphic that you may integrate for demo, just like KFM in MUGEN, but i reckon this project is somehow commercial.
I'll read again the discussion, and when i have time i'll look into it, however in future i could make specific resources for this engine as i'm doing for mugen and gonna do for Doom 2
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#63  January 05, 2018, 03:54:11 pm
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Yeah, I won't be selling the resources per se, just the engine; but given how steam works, it would not be surprising to assume that free resources included inside a paid engine might beconsidered as being sold as part of the package. I will see if I can ask a steam representative ; I remember people/companies  having safe steam packages and providing the steam unaproved materials in their webpages got forbidden from linking the unaproved materials in the steam forums, so that makes me think that including them as part of the package is a no go.
Re: Nekoconeko ( a new fighting game engine)
#64  January 11, 2018, 11:41:59 pm
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Yeah, I won't be selling the resources per se, just the engine; but given how steam works, it would not be surprising to assume that free resources included inside a paid engine might beconsidered as being sold as part of the package. I will see if I can ask a steam representative ; I remember people/companies  having safe steam packages and providing the steam unaproved materials in their webpages got forbidden from linking the unaproved materials in the steam forums, so that makes me think that including them as part of the package is a no go.

You could put the extra resources like Demo Characters into a seperate DLC for free, that would probably work fine if the creators don't want you to sell the stuff they created. It worked well for the RPG Maker with there Community resource packs, I don't see a reasons why this should not work for your engine as well. ^^
Re: Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#65  February 04, 2018, 06:09:43 pm
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So happy the name changed.
Re: Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#66  February 05, 2018, 12:08:32 am
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Mhh aren't you afrait it get's mixed up with "Fighter Creator" `?^^
Re: Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#67  February 05, 2018, 12:10:18 am
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Any form of generation/generator makes any title better.

That and the previous one was way too catgirl. Maybe FC's name is also placeholder...
Re: Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#68  February 05, 2018, 03:14:22 am
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I'm gonna miss the old name.
SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Re: Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#69  February 05, 2018, 01:33:03 pm
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I'm gonna miss the old name.

I think the old name is quite unique but, at the same time, it really does not say what the engine was about (then again, neither does the name MUGEN).

The new name is to the point but I wonder if people would confuse it with similar-naming projects?
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Re: Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#70  February 05, 2018, 03:54:35 pm
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Technically, Mugen means infinite in Japanese, which does a decent job at explaining it's "an infinite fighting game", so... Actually, going by the blatant and somewhat silly to this day limitations, maybe we can sue for false advertising in that case.

Also technically there's (a) character(s) named Coneko, so it's not completely original, much like Mugen's name.
Re: Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#71  February 06, 2018, 03:43:44 am
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Yeah, the previous name was heavily inspired by the azumanga daioh character nekokoneko and I really wanted something search friendly.
nekoconeko will still be the internal name.
also, Ia m updating my development tools to the newest version of visual studio (2017) and monogame (3.6) so I have better android support, also windows phone and ios, but I don't own a mac to port to ios  and windows phone is lolz.
The bad nes is that I confirmed that my current job does not hand out raises when they hand out the permanent contract, so I will keep on saving the steam fee and the may date (when I should get my permanent contract) is irrelevant now.
Re: Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#72  February 19, 2018, 03:05:16 am
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    • andypetines@gmail.com
I just sent another donation for this month.  :toff:
SILVER said:
Saberblade, you're so full of yourself. Your quotes in your signature are like a self circle jerk. Its sad that you put so much emphasis on what the stupid members here say.
Tuxedo Biccy said:
You shut your mouth, Sarblade, we can have truth and facts interrupting our dystopia fanfics. :P
Re: Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#73  February 19, 2018, 05:13:09 am
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    • Mexico
Thanks.

The past week I was studying kivy, it's a python library  to make visual programs, so I can use it to make the IDE; Ia lso spent this weekend designing the IDE, so I should be able to get started working on it soon. What this means is python is a good programming language to handle big amounts of data and kivy works in mutliple platforms, more importantly windows and android.
Re: Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#74  February 19, 2018, 05:34:39 am
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  • WE ARE NESTS: THE NEW WORLD ORDER
    • USA
oh well lookie here i just happen to be studying python right now hahaha

sadly i haven't been able to build GUIs. Like I have this Character Generator tool for Morrowind that was supposed to have a combobox GUI using tkinter but it was hard to find anything that could teach you how to use it.
Re: Fighter's Generator ( previosuly Nekoconeko )( a new fighting game engine)
#75  February 19, 2018, 06:41:46 pm
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    • Mexico
Yeah, I also found out about Tkinter when researchign a visual framework, but I choose kivy because it's multiplatform though it more closely resembles HTML coding than regular gui programs like visual studio. that's kind of a plus for me, since I miss coding for adobe flex.