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Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen (Read 15402 times)

Started by mr_bourrepalestick, March 24, 2017, 11:15:40 pm
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Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#1  March 24, 2017, 11:15:40 pm
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Hi Ikemen lovers !!!

Few days ago, I've started trying to import a fullgame project of mine called "Another Blade" into Ikemen (you can check out the project's thread >>>over here <<<).

And I've been facing an issue with a different ground bounce behaviour on Ikemen than it is on Mugen.
A short footage with 2 different characters, on Mugen first, then on Ikemen, with the same attack strings (sorry for the 10 sec black screen in the middle of the vid).



As you can see, on the Mugen engine, the attacker can still juggle when the target touches the ground (right when the bounce occurs).
On the Ikemen engine, it acts as if the target is lying. It even goes beyond the y=0 axis ...

It acts as if the vertical position doesn't have the same thresholds or something... ?!
Is it due to localcoord stuff ?

For info (in case it has anything to do with this issue) :
I run both Mugen & Ikemen on a 640x480 resolution.
Characters are based on the default 320x240 localcoord, and the Mugen system.def has the default 1280x960 localcoord too.
Characters have KFM's default 0.44 y accel, and KFM's default ground/recovery thresholds too.

I've been trying some tweaks in the common.ssz file , in this section (but changed it back to default values) :
Spoiler: common.ssz - Game width & height section (click to see content)

I even looked a bit further under this section too, but didn't want to touch it tho :
Spoiler: common.ssz - Public & Camera section (click to see content)


I'd love some help, or even just hints about where to look at.
- samurais, swords & stuff ? → Another Blade
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#2  March 24, 2017, 11:52:47 pm
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Seems super weird... Are you using the current version of IKEMEN? Also, could it maybe be the amount of hits per combo that might have some potential that messes with IKEMEN? Like, juggles perhaps or somethin'? If not, I might look into this more when I have time. Cause ground bounces work on the engine, last time I checked.
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#3  March 25, 2017, 12:30:18 am
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Seems super weird... Are you using the current version of IKEMEN? Also, could it maybe be the amount of hits per combo that might have some potential that messes with IKEMEN? Like, juggles perhaps or somethin'? If not, I might look into this more when I have time. Cause ground bounces work on the engine, last time I checked.

Yes I suppose it's the current version (I'm using Ikemen 2017).
For juggles & hits, I've simply copy/pasted the characters as they are from the Mugen char folder to the Ikemen one (same for stages), so there is no difference.
The only "big change" is Mugen's "system.def" and how it's handled by Ikemen.

If I guess right, system.def parameters are separated into script/main.lua for menus, select screens etc,  and ssz files...

I've just ran into this section in char.ssz
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

I'll try to follow the index path for the bounce offset/groundlevel etc in this file, and others which call those indexes...
- samurais, swords & stuff ? → Another Blade
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#4  March 25, 2017, 01:14:15 am
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Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#5  March 25, 2017, 07:39:02 am
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Oh ! there was a 03-2017 release !! I was sticking with the 2017 millesime   :P
I'll try the latest version asap, and see if the changes impact on my issue.
Thanks TheFclass !
- samurais, swords & stuff ? → Another Blade
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#6  March 25, 2017, 09:11:55 am
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03-2017 version didn't change anything unfortunately for this issue.
I've tried to track down some const. index values (related to ground level and bounce stuff) in each .ssz file, but it goes beyond my casual coding knowledge...

I guess I'll have to look deeper into my common 5080-5081-5100 states, and maybe ground hit/bounce thresholds on (y) axis, and find the best compromise so Mugen and Ikemen engines give the same results . That troubles me a bit because I'll have to monitor every knockdown attack for each character on both engines ... welcome to multiport games !!! :D
- samurais, swords & stuff ? → Another Blade
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#7  March 27, 2017, 07:14:51 pm
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After few experimentations with cns thresholds, some triggers and (y) PosSet in 5080's states , I come to the conclusion that :
Mugen and Ikemen handle differently the moment when a target is hit with an OTG attack at (approximatively) the same frame when it hits the ground.
Mugen seems to handle the ground contact and bounce first, then applies the OTG attack's physical behaviour. This opens up some OTG juggle stuff (like with the kicks on the video above).
Ikemen first handles the OTG attack consequences, then looks after the ground contact (and position). This can lead to the target going below the ground axis (like in the video above, when the game is paused).

I don't want to get deeper in the engine code and try to make it behave exactly the same.
Besides, it doesn't bother me that much if there will always be some slight differences, as far as they don't "break" the game. :)

Gotta finish porting fightscreen stuff now ! :)
- samurais, swords & stuff ? → Another Blade
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#8  March 27, 2017, 07:41:23 pm
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Now THAT's weird. I never really seen OTG's act that way before (they usually function fine with games I've played). Thanks for noting that, and sorry that it couldn't be adjusted at the moment. I'm honestly not sure what do to with the info given (can definitely be helpful in some way). Good luck with your port man, hope this doesn't make you look "away" from the engine (I believe things can be found and fixed or done eventually... it's happened before).
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#9  March 27, 2017, 09:48:41 pm
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Now THAT's weird. I never really seen OTG's act that way before (they usually function fine with games I've played). Thanks for noting that, and sorry that it couldn't be adjusted at the moment. I'm honestly not sure what do to with the info given (can definitely be helpful in some way). Good luck with your port man, hope this doesn't make you look "away" from the engine (I believe things can be found and fixed or done eventually... it's happened before).
Nothing to be sorry about ! Maybe it will get a fix, maybe not, and maybe there is nothing to fix and things come from my end, maybe "we" will have to adapt to some kind of Ikemen's own standards ?!
In any case, thank you TheFClass for taking time to answer here (and for your vids too btw  they've been helpful to start out ;)  ).
- samurais, swords & stuff ? → Another Blade
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#10  March 27, 2017, 10:19:58 pm
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Alright... Also, I'm glad the vids have been helpful. I plan to do more, but I've been a little busy. A lot has happened and can happen with the engine, so who knows....
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#11  April 03, 2017, 04:49:43 pm
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this bug has been around for ages and still exists in the most recent one. It's something I've been working on with a hopeful fix soon.
Want to feel useful for a useless show? click here
118/150 Chars, I'm not dead yet....the true surprise is in my thread.
Hahahah fuck you photobucket.
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#12  April 03, 2017, 05:22:44 pm
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this bug has been around for ages and still exists in the most recent one. It's something I've been working on with a hopeful fix soon.

Hmm... How long ya been lookin'? (unless you already found where it could be and just coming up with a solution)
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#13  April 04, 2017, 10:06:17 pm
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this bug has been around for ages and still exists in the most recent one. It's something I've been working on with a hopeful fix soon.

Oh ! that sounds great !

If it may help, I think that there is definitely something going on with how Ikemen goes from state 5100 to 5080 (instead of 5020 in some cases)  and the (y) axis position. A short video will be more explanatory.
(sorry for the horrible mic sound, and nasty accent :P  doin my best to contribute )



Were you on the same path for the fix ?
- samurais, swords & stuff ? → Another Blade
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#14  April 07, 2017, 04:41:28 pm
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I was actually just going to rewrite it to get the specific behavior. I haven't had the chance to just yet but I'll release my ikemen common1 when I do
Want to feel useful for a useless show? click here
118/150 Chars, I'm not dead yet....the true surprise is in my thread.
Hahahah fuck you photobucket.
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#15  April 10, 2017, 06:45:57 pm
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I was actually just going to rewrite it to get the specific behavior. I haven't had the chance to just yet but I'll release my ikemen common1 when I do

I've tried to tweak 5100's states in "my" common1.cns so the hit redirects to 5020's instead of 5080's in Ikemen as it does in Mugen. Without success unfortunately.
It was with a state controller in 5080 gethit state, which redirects to 5020. I've tried triggers with Y position/ accel / velocity, in correlation to constants values (thresholds and y offsets etc). At the end, I had to face how sysvar(1) is stored in Mugen's engine, and how Ikemen stores it too.

Spoiler: first lines from Kfm's common1.cns (click to see content)

And then I've just realized that Kfmx's common1.cns is "quite different" than Mugen's Kfm's common1.cns which I'm using (and which I tweaked just a little bit here and there ).

In short, Ikemen's common1.cns is not coded in cns format at all. So how can I bring my own common1.cns specifics ?
Should I not replace Ikemen's default common1.cns with the one I've been working with under Mugen ? (this is exactly what I've done btw)
- samurais, swords & stuff ? → Another Blade
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#16  April 10, 2017, 07:10:36 pm
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Go for it. Use your own common1 instead of Ikemens. See how that helps.
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#17  April 10, 2017, 07:21:27 pm
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Go for it. Use your own common1 instead of Ikemens. See how that helps.

Sorry, I misformulated. Using my own common1.cns is what I've done right from the start.
I was actually wondering if I should keep Ikemen's common1.cns and then try to implement my tweaks into ssz code ... (I'm not enjoying that idea at all I must admit  :P  )
- samurais, swords & stuff ? → Another Blade
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#18  April 10, 2017, 07:27:07 pm
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Ohhhh, right... Well, you can try. Although the task does seem very daunting since it's not structured like a cns file at all. Did you try just taking out the common1 entirely and just adding your own in the ssz folder already?
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#19  April 10, 2017, 07:37:03 pm
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Ohhhh, right... Well, you can try. Although the task does seem very daunting since it's not structured like a cns file at all. Did you try just taking out the common1 entirely and just adding your own in the ssz folder already?

That's exactly what I've done from the very start, and the result is what you can see in the vids.
(in case you'd be interested, I've created a thread for the ikemen version of the game with a download link >>> here )

In your projects, did you keep Ikemen's ssz coded common1.cns ? Or did you use your own (with mugen's native cns code) ?
- samurais, swords & stuff ? → Another Blade
Re: Ground bounce behaviour different from Mugen to Ikemen
#20  April 10, 2017, 08:01:14 pm
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I was looking at the project a bit. Never tried it yet cause reasons, but it looks interesting and I wouldn't mind playing it in the near future. As far as my own projects, I'm still VERY new in coding chars and well... coding in general (since I haven't really looked up proper tutorials on coding, I just mess with things and figure it out that way). However, for my REV 2 project (where I actually started to code things from scratch) I just use IKEMEN's common1 and I do the rest of the coding on my chars (and their respective cns files). Cause honestly, from the IKEMEN's I've played/ported, they seem to work fine (with minor hiccups which are mostly patchable on the chars themselves, not the engine). I might just use my own common1 though instead of IKEMEN's for REV 2 cause it might make things easier for a full game.