Renzo [a.k.a. Sachavaca Salvaje] said, September 22, 2007, 04:26:03 pm@THH: Not really, P.o.t.s interpretation is the correct for my post.I see. Sorry about that Renzo.P.o.t.S. said, September 22, 2007, 04:23:19 pmBtw HitDefs activate and hit in the exact tick you tell them to, the only delay there is is in the hit char, he only goes to the get hit animation one tick after being hit.I don't know why but for some reason that is not the case for me.On estimate maybe 10% of teh time the hitdefs I code for do not activate properly.In one situation it WILL activate most of the time. BUT sometimes when teh same situation arises, it does not.Hold on while I find a video please
Really waiting for that... because in my eraly days of coding characters I had a lot of animations frames with time=1 and never noticed strange behaviors like that.
Here we are:NHK's - MakotoSenind's - AI coding:My (THH) - CNS, AIR (clsns), and CMD edits http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgH-mch1u48Notice at: 3:41The Last Hit of Makoto's Hyper Combo does not connect (Please read the two notes below)Note:I expanded the AIR Attack CLSNs "GREATLY" and I know they should have hit. (Between -43 and 58)The trigger coding I edited for her to use was:Quote[Statedef 3272]type = Smovetype= Aphysics = Svelset = 0,0ctrl = 0juggle = 1anim = 3272sprpriority = 2...[State 3000, 2]type = HitDeftrigger1 = animelem = 6...The problem... animelem lasts for only 1-tickYou would, and should, be tempted to say the distance factored into the equation, but it did not.I tested this many times on my own and found that the hit was not triggering appropriately EVERY time, but instead, again by rough estimate, only about 90% of the time did it trigger approriately...NO MATTER WHAT THE DISTANCE WAS
What about the opponent's Clsn2?Meh, there's a hundred things that could make the attack miss, but I assure you that that trigger alone isn't one of them.
P.o.t.S. said, September 22, 2007, 05:06:08 pmWhat about the opponent's Clsn2?I'm going to need you to explain that.CLSN2 has always been a tricky subject for me because of some Edge business involved with it, but in this situation, I know that at least Makoto's CLSN Attack should have gone farther than the edge of Kyosuke's CLSN Collision or CLSN2 Collision.Also, I had tested this myself, in other situations.The two that I believe should most effcetively highlight my point would be these.1st:I selected the two same opponents each time (Makoto and Alex by GM). I selected the same stage (Chun-Li's SF3 stage). I began the round with the power bar full and triggered the move immediately while both AIs were deactivated.MOST times the attack hit, but sometimes it did not.2nd:Makoto vs. AlexChun-Li's SF3 stageAIs DeactivatedI put Alex in the Right Corner and had Makoto stand right next to him in some trials, and as far from him as possible in others, then triggered the move.MOST times the attack hit, but sometimes it did not.
Hm, the Clsn on the original version are pretty funky, I can easily picture them missing the target since they barely hit Alex and KFM:The black square is where the Clsn intersect eachother, just recolored it to make it more visible.Can you take a screenshot like this, but with the version you modified and a char you say it misses?Anyway, this is really derailing the topic, need to split it later.
P.o.t.S. said, September 22, 2007, 05:34:51 pmCan you take a screenshot like this, but with the version you modified and a char you say it misses?I always wondered how people did that. I will need to know how to reveal the CLSNs. I'm assuming that it's something in the mugen.cfg? I can't take a PCX image, but I can take a picture of Mugen using and outside source. Well... I can take a PCX image from Mugen, but my comp doesn't recognize it. I don't know how to color yet, and I'm pretty sure that I do not have any programs that color pictures
Tee Hee Hee said, September 22, 2007, 05:39:44 pmI always wondered how people did that.I will need to know how to reveal the CLSNs, I'm assuming that it's something in the mugen.cfgEnable the debug mode in mugen.cfg then press ctrl+C while playing.QuoteI don't know how to color, and I'm pretty sure that I do not have any programs that color pictures I used mspaint, and you don't need to color anything. Edit: Nevermind, just noticed that using the medium kick version and hitting from as far as possible makes it miss:So yeah, not a trigger issue.
How would I make up for the fact that this takes place within 1 tick (I don't know if I could get lucky enought to take a pick at the exact time the scenario comes up)?Also Should I take the picture using the outside source, which doesn't save as PCX??orShould I make a PCX image and open it with FF to view it??orShould I make a video. Isolate the frame then take a picture using teh outside source ??
Tee Hee Hee said, September 22, 2007, 05:47:08 pmHow would I make up for the fact that this takes place within 1 tick (I don't know if I could get lucky enought to take a pick at the exact time the scenario comes up)?Pause the game and press ScrollLock to advance one frame at a time. You should've known all the debug features by now. And the second option. Not that it matters now, see the edit on my previous post.
P.o.t.S. said, September 22, 2007, 05:42:06 pmAnd the second option. Not that it matters now, see the edit on my previous post.Edit: Nevermind, just noticed that using the medium kick version and hitting from as far as possible makes it miss:So yeah, not a trigger issue.Tee Hee Hee In Previous Post said, September 22, 2007, 04:58:05 pmNote:I expanded the AIR Attack CLSNs "GREATLY" and I know they should have hit. (Between -43 and 58)The trigger coding I edited for her to use was:....................You would, and should, be tempted to say the distance factored into the equation, but it did not.I tested this many times on my own and found that the hit was not triggering appropriately EVERY time, but instead, again by rough estimate, only about 90% of the time did it trigger approriately...NO MATTER WHAT THE DISTANCE WAS
Umm... My experience tells me that there's nothing wrong with HitDef controller and its triggering. There can always be factors that make things look like it's HitDef's fault.Tee Hee Hee, I see you've found quite a bunch of 'mugen errors'. I write it in inverted commas because in fact (in most cases) there are no such errors in Mugen engine. I understand that your experience says so, but your experience might come from bad-doubting your own conclusions. When I face some irregular problems I take as an axiom "mugen engine is working fine" and search for my mistakes. Even when you can't find a solution at first you should't just give up and state "I can't do anything because the engine is wrong".
Elix said, September 22, 2007, 11:26:37 pmUmm... My experience tells me that there's nothing wrong with HitDef controller and its triggering. There can always be factors that make things look like it's HitDef's fault.Tee Hee Hee, I see you've found quite a bunch of 'mugen errors'. I write it in inverted commas because in fact (in most cases) there are no such errors in Mugen engine. I understand that your experience says so, but your experience might come from bad-doubting your own conclusions. When I face some irregular problems I take as an axiom "mugen engine is working fine" and search for my mistakes. Even when you can't find a solution at first you should't just give up and state "I can't do anything because the engine is wrong".I share that same mentality.I look for my own mistakes as well, FIRST, and do that for a few hours.My coding is organized in such a way that you can see every element of the code clearly. I fix all my mistakes, then come to conclusion, never teh opposite.Check the Haohmaru AI Patch.I left some note in teh CMD file about randomly activating triggersAlsoThere are a few more glitches I noticed with the fvar and the default AI becoming dominant. It wasn't a bad thing and I didn't consider it worthy of discussion because they both can easily be avoided (or should I say avoided 99% of the time).
This didn't feel like help, aside from anything else, no question was really asked. Possibly belongs here anyway.Teeheehee: You seem to find a number of issues to present as "errors" yet you don't know the debug commands? That kinda sheds new light on a lot of what you say.
Cyanide said, September 23, 2007, 01:29:15 amTeeheehee: You seem to find a number of issues to present as "errors" yet you don't know the debug commands? That kinda sheds new light on a lot of what you say."PotS" moved the topic with particular posts because he said we were getting sidetracked.Please Notice that this starts with a quoteThe original topic that he moved it from was here:http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=65633.0Cyanide said, September 23, 2007, 01:29:15 amThis didn't feel like help, aside from anything else, no question was really asked. Possibly belongs here anyway.I never even knew there were debug "commands" until now.The things that I was talking about were just absolute codes; BUT, if Debug commands factor into this in any way, then I am probably wrong
More a comment on your percieved grasp of the engine itself. You say a lot of things "happen" yet haven't made use of frame skip debug or clsn display to check why.For eg, your comments on AI activating moves that it shouldn't be able to. Turning on debug and framestepping would show you whether the AI actually had control. Making use of displaytoclipboard in this instance would also give you some idea of when an attack activates properly via AI.
Cyanide said, September 23, 2007, 04:01:46 amMore a comment on your percieved grasp of the engine itself. You say a lot of things "happen" yet haven't made use of frame skip debug or clsn display to check why.For eg, your comments on AI activating moves that it shouldn't be able to. Turning on debug and framestepping would show you whether the AI actually had control. Making use of displaytoclipboard in this instance would also give you some idea of when an attack activates properly via AI.Well because that is new to me, I'll be using it.But, I know absolutely what I had coded and it was not being followed based on what I could check using my method. I didn't only check MY OWN AIs, but I also checked other creators chars (about 20 or so more others) and EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM HAD THE SAME GLITCH.My Method Again:Recording at 35 or more FPS, then isolating each frame in a frame by frame checkCyanide, I really want to ask you.Do you have a YouTube account?
Nope, i don't see the point in general. The big issue about your ai glitches is noone else gets them. Or if they do they know why they're getting them and fix it.I've never had anything do anything i haven't told it to. Priorities or otherwise. I've had some things acting incorrectly but that was always my fault rather than anything the engine did.
Cyanide said, September 23, 2007, 05:59:42 amThe big issue about your ai glitches is noone else gets them. Or if they do they know why they're getting them and fix it.I was waiting for that."noone else":You'd be very suprised. As I said, I tested this on other creator's chars and the ALL of them (100%) had the glitches.It stinks that you don't have a UTube account, so I guess I'll just have to show you the vids publicly.R[E]ika said, September 23, 2007, 06:06:31 amyou must record at exact 60 fps if you want to have frame accuracySuprisingly you really don't have to. That just creates a whole mass of extra frames @_@.You'll see what I mean tomorrow... that is if I don't break a rule by then (that doesn't have to do with the forum though )
