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KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars) (Read 9464 times)

Started by Anderson Masters, October 22, 2017, 03:12:39 am
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KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#1  October 22, 2017, 03:12:39 am
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Something like father and dawther, at the style of Takuma and Yuri
but with other kind of moves
 

a attempt to learn a way to do a full char in XII/XIII style based on SNK PLAYMORE method

1- Work on a blender scene with the light configuration for the project
2- Render the model with the defalt pal
3- aply the "pal1" him first palete and base
4- rework with pixel art, fixing and changing pixels and lines to fit the style


Atual Process:

step1= idea of animations

step2= Render the model on the pose

step3= manual work

step4 = manual fixing minor issues







ps: if you going to sugest moves, do like xiao xiao sketchs
like i do
step 1 the xiao xiao sketch

Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 05:42:22 pm by Anderson Masters
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#2  October 24, 2017, 07:48:38 pm
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Changes in the model

New Concept

New size
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#3  October 24, 2017, 09:08:37 pm
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Your project looks very promising. :D
Good luck!
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#4  October 25, 2017, 01:11:50 am
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Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#5  October 25, 2017, 01:29:21 am
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These renders will need a lot of cleaning to look like passable KOFXII sprites.

From the top of my head you're dealing with too many stray pixels due to topology issues, your shadows aren't ray-traced (a massively important part of the XII look), and the shadows/ineffectual palette make your colours bleed into palette entries of the wrong shades.

I can't help you much in regards to topology versus stylized end-products, so you have to find the closest 3D match to whatever 2D style you'd like to reduce the amount of editing you have to do.

To help with the last two entries maybe switch to ray-traced shadows and/or make the palette you use to catch your colours three-fold.  The first pass is a larger palette that ensures no colour bleeding happens, second pass is running that through a program with the reduced colours placed properly in an identically sized palette to sort things, then third is loading those sprites through the final palette.  Do your edits after the final pass.
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#6  October 25, 2017, 04:11:04 am
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Actually, the main thing is that you're letting the 3D software pick out the midtones.

If you look at SNK's 3D models, you'll see they're flat shaded with really hard outlines. There's only one color for lit areas and only one color for areas in shadow. See below:



The midtones as well as the adjustment to the outlines are all done manually by an artist. You're going to have a hard time matching that automatically because the software will go for realism and what you really want is to go for aesthetics, which is tough to teach the software to do.

I like your model, but I would probably give him even a bit MORE muscle. He's a boxer after all, so his arms and torso should be bigger than those of Ryo (perhaps something in between Ryo and Ralf?). Another thing you need to work on is your posing. The movements are stiff and a bit robotic. You have to consider things like windup, follow-through, inertia, etc...

I promise this is all constructive stuff. Your work is very promising!
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#7  October 25, 2017, 01:43:50 pm
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We're both right on this, to be fair.  SNK did go 2-tone, yes, but we have more control over midtones now since those games were made.

If you're rendering midtones you have either a lot more (or a lot less) editing based on how you went about setting up your material/smoothing groups to force the renderer to draw lines for certain details.  That and change your lights to render ray-traced shadows to lose the blurry drop shadow edges.

There's no true shortcut for any of this if you're going to be dropping big names like KOFXII as your inspiration, sadly.
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#8  October 25, 2017, 03:02:26 pm
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These renders will need a lot of cleaning to look like passable KOFXII sprites.

From the top of my head you're dealing with too many stray pixels due to topology issues, your shadows aren't ray-traced (a massively important part of the XII look), and the shadows/ineffectual palette make your colours bleed into palette entries of the wrong shades.

I can't help you much in regards to topology versus stylized end-products, so you have to find the closest 3D match to whatever 2D style you'd like to reduce the amount of editing you have to do.

To help with the last two entries maybe switch to ray-traced shadows and/or make the palette you use to catch your colours three-fold.  The first pass is a larger palette that ensures no colour bleeding happens, second pass is running that through a program with the reduced colours placed properly in an identically sized palette to sort things, then third is loading those sprites through the final palette.  Do your edits after the final pass.

Thanks by the feedback and, agreed! i will test the shadows with raytraced method, about the char and animations, this is not finished, so, i can change alot of things or, everything, idk.

Actually, the main thing is that you're letting the 3D software pick out the midtones.

If you look at SNK's 3D models, you'll see they're flat shaded with really hard outlines. There's only one color for lit areas and only one color for areas in shadow. See below:



The midtones as well as the adjustment to the outlines are all done manually by an artist. You're going to have a hard time matching that automatically because the software will go for realism and what you really want is to go for aesthetics, which is tough to teach the software to do.

I like your model, but I would probably give him even a bit MORE muscle. He's a boxer after all, so his arms and torso should be bigger than those of Ryo (perhaps something in between Ryo and Ralf?). Another thing you need to work on is your posing. The movements are stiff and a bit robotic. You have to consider things like windup, follow-through, inertia, etc...

I promise this is all constructive stuff. Your work is very promising!

Thanks! and agreed about the model muscles,  about the snk classic method, we have alot of good shaders now, and i'll try to configure someone to gimme more than 3 colors, but if it keep going on wrong, i can try to remake all in the same old style. about posing and animations, this is not the focus now, i will finishh first the model, and the concepts. anyway thank you very much!


We're both right on this, to be fair.  SNK did go 2-tone, yes, but we have more control over midtones now since those games were made.

If you're rendering midtones you have either a lot more (or a lot less) editing based on how you went about setting up your material/smoothing groups to force the renderer to draw lines for certain details.  That and change your lights to render ray-traced shadows to lose the blurry drop shadow edges.

There's no true shortcut for any of this if you're going to be dropping big names like KOFXII as your inspiration, sadly.

this will really have alot of sprite editing, something like 30~80% of each sprite, so, we can try to do the scene, so close as possible of the XII, XIII original sprites, i can handly with one or two sprites, but, this is a char, no way to do all from sketch, without lose the body proportions and shadings areas, the 3d model is really necessary, and i will try to make it so usefull as possible, i will edit the model and lights, and post it here back for more feedback before think about posing or animations.



new tests







Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 05:02:18 pm by Anderson Masters
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#9  October 25, 2017, 11:52:26 pm
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Ah, I see.  So you're going for a realistic material/shader and just breaking up the tones of each colour using a palette.

You start with something like this:

Then apply your palette(s) and clean it up.

Using 3 blended non-photorealistic materials in Max I can start with:

And have to do far less editing.

I'm not sure about the limitations of Blender (if any), but maybe do some research on non-photorealistic materials/shaders to save yourself a headache.
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#10  October 26, 2017, 12:31:40 am
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I understand your point, and i've use it on some tests, but i'm searching for a configuration like guilty gear xrd now


this method (older test)
works fine on stand and alot of moves, but is not cool for rotating or horizontal kicks frames
pure render (no edits)
starting to fixing lines and shadeswith some changes in pal


maybe soon i post my new changes (still working in the scene and models, lights, and alot of minor details)
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#11  October 26, 2017, 12:48:48 am
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I understand your point, and i've use it on some tests, but i'm searching for a configuration like guilty gear xrd now

Make up your mind, first it was Blazblue, then KOFXIII and now Guilty Gear Xrd; which is it? They're all completely different from each other in terms of shading and proportions.
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#12  October 26, 2017, 12:56:20 am
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I understand your point, and i've use it on some tests, but i'm searching for a configuration like guilty gear xrd now

Make up your mind, first it was Blazblue, then KOFXIII and now Guilty Gear Xrd; which is it? They're all completely different from each other in terms of shading and proportions.
i'm talking about shader configuration (outline color, in draw color, oclusion, difuse and specular) no about rendering in the same atyle at all, just trying to mimic the tool, not the style
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#13  October 26, 2017, 03:35:10 am
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If you're working in Blender you can't do something they did in a totally different engine.  The two environments aren't alike at all.  The method you're using now requires that you pick a style, get it as close to the source of said style as possible (if not completely original), and do something.
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#14  October 26, 2017, 07:44:00 pm
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If you're working in Blender you can't do something they did in a totally different engine.  The two environments aren't alike at all.  The method you're using now requires that you pick a style, get it as close to the source of said style as possible (if not completely original), and do something.

is almost the same tools, but the environments really change alot, but i no need to use blender, maybe 3ds or any other
i will do more tests before start the 2d part of project, at now... i'm on this

Concept:


3D Base:


Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#15  October 27, 2017, 06:54:57 pm
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girl poser finished

 

back to man poser now.
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#16  October 27, 2017, 11:55:20 pm
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Boxer man model and scene finished

i'm actually pretty happy with this result, is this that i have in mind, and is this that i will use.
it gimme:
proportions, anatomy, shadow, highlight, midtones...

some showcase:
the stand posed render 1

in other pose to check the size of model

trying some dynamic move to test shadows


a new comparison:
in left and in right of Robert, is the same model, with the same camera, changing only the position of the model


the "3d" work is almost finished
now is pose bones, render, and manual finish sprite by sprite (the char will have something like 500~800 sprites)
Re: KOF XII/XIII BOXER CHARACTER (Developing the model)
#17  October 28, 2017, 02:56:32 am
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first move (or no)
just a first test with stand

Re: KOF XII/XIII Boxer Char (ANIMATIONS NOW) Need moves sugestions!!!
#18  October 28, 2017, 04:14:11 pm
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Boxer Man concept finished (it really need a name) :shocked3:
first post actualized

Re: KOF XII/XIII Boxer Char (ANIMATIONS NOW) Need moves sugestions!!!
#19  October 28, 2017, 05:07:30 pm
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Re: KOF XII/XIII Boxer Char (ANIMATIONS NOW) Need moves sugestions!!!
#20  October 29, 2017, 10:26:39 pm
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some more retouches and fixes
and we will have a stand
Re: KOF XII/XIII Boxer Char (ANIMATIONS NOW) Need moves sugestions!!!
#21  October 30, 2017, 01:41:57 am
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Feet still moving around too much.  Remember IK when animating as it can force your feet to remain stationary during animation.  Maybe research animation in general.
Re: KOF XII/XIII Boxer Char (ANIMATIONS NOW) Need moves sugestions!!!
#22  October 30, 2017, 04:03:07 pm
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Feet still moving around too much.  Remember IK when animating as it can force your feet to remain stationary during animation.  Maybe research animation in general.
i'm really letting some edits for the 2d part of work, this is not 100% intentional, but will work (i think)




Edit (not so "new" for do other post)
editing the model to get more inlines
Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 07:27:36 pm by Anderson Masters
Re: KOF XII/XIII Boxer Char (ANIMATIONS NOW) Need moves sugestions!!!
#23  November 02, 2017, 10:35:11 pm
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updating model


Re: KOF XII/XIII Boxer Char (ANIMATIONS NOW) Need moves sugestions!!!
#24  November 07, 2017, 10:52:42 pm
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after some days working on the shader, i made my choice, this char will be female

cause is pretty more easy to draw a arm like Yuri than all the muscles of Ryo or Terry
(but i will save the bone positions)

this is the actual stage of the shader

i think the shader is almost on her maximum, i explore all the options, adjusts, shadow types, and all the scripts and i no think this will get more better than this, only more adjusts on some colors and i will start to studing her animations
and this is the firsts adjusts to make a concept



actualized
this one below is pure blender render without manual edits
Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 01:01:34 am by Anderson Masters
Re: KOF XII/XIII Boxer Char (ANIMATIONS NOW) Need moves sugestions!!!
#25  November 08, 2017, 11:16:45 pm
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method for alpha sprites finished
Re: KOF XII/XIII Boxer Char (ANIMATIONS NOW) Need moves sugestions!!!
#26  November 09, 2017, 05:01:56 am
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3d rocks!
Re: KOF XII/XIII Boxer Char (ANIMATIONS NOW) Need moves sugestions!!!
#27  November 11, 2017, 02:15:11 am
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If you really, really want to make a good character then go onto Youtube and watching videos about boxers. Read up on them and study how they move.

Oh, and did you know that boxers have different styles?
https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Boxing_styles_and_technique.html

This might help you bet a better idea of moves and how your boxer could fight.

Good luck.

Cheers,
Revanto  ;P

thanks bro! i really not think on it yet, but agree with you, i will do some tests before a choice
boxer man style of production actualized:
at here only "shaders and tricks"

and there my manual finish

still no is what i really wanted, but, is going on
Re: KOF XII/XIII Boxer Char (ANIMATIONS NOW) Need moves sugestions!!!
#28  November 11, 2017, 05:24:28 pm
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2D -> 3D ->2D

Stanting to learn walk!

all animations will use 2d techniques to simulate an full manually done sprite
this is the first steps for animations, the 2D idea (key frames)




after this step i will go to 3d software and pose and add more frames to be more smooth

than, 2d software again to retouch and finish sprite by sprite!


feedback about the animations will be very apreciated, and if you going to suggest a move, do like those animations, don't need to be beutiful on the this step, just need to work fine and be smooth
Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 09:44:06 pm by Anderson Masters
Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#29  November 12, 2017, 03:05:09 am
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She's raising her knee a bit too much. Also, when we walk, we usually raise our heel first, then as we move our leg forward, we lower our heel and raise our toes, then step down heel first, then toes right after.

In your version, her feet are mostly flat throughout the entire motion and the left leg seems to be stepping down toes first.

I know it seems like nitpicking, but all those things are things that even if you don't notice directly, they leave you with this sense of "I can't put my finger on it, but something doesn't seem right".
Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#30  November 12, 2017, 11:39:43 pm
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She's raising her knee a bit too much. Also, when we walk, we usually raise our heel first, then as we move our leg forward, we lower our heel and raise our toes, then step down heel first, then toes right after.

In your version, her feet are mostly flat throughout the entire motion and the left leg seems to be stepping down toes first.

I know it seems like nitpicking, but all those things are things that even if you don't notice directly, they leave you with this sense of "I can't put my finger on it, but something doesn't seem right".

thanks dude!
i really like your points
new walk wip:

some changes



Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 03:45:50 pm by Anderson Masters
Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#31  November 13, 2017, 06:44:22 pm
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walk back wip

Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 10:12:16 pm by Anderson Masters
Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#32  November 16, 2017, 01:58:10 am
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Maxy changes on the model and on the finish method
render without manual edit:

manual finish:
first try to jab, still need 2d work and more frames, just testing a new way animate bones
Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#33  November 18, 2017, 12:32:15 am
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Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#34  November 18, 2017, 05:37:23 pm
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the last walks are far better.

I want to hug you...
Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#35  November 19, 2017, 12:50:59 am
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the last walks are far better.
thanks bro!
finishing the last details on model
at now changed the hair, to give her more light on face
after this, just finish the skirt to seems like athena's skirt (line between pleats)

Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#36  November 21, 2017, 12:13:44 am
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final model for Maxy

Showcase

ps: shirt will be closed in game, and skirt will be adjusted to never show panties (like athena to keep the style)
Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#37  November 21, 2017, 12:34:23 am
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i think you're focusing too much on the "kof conversion" process gimmick and not enough on actually animating fluidly. the actual devs didnt start off with the shading, they started with animating the models well with rough shading and then they clean up and then add it in afterwards.

focusing more on the other things than actually animating well enough will only slow you down and hinder your progress much more down the road
Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#38  November 22, 2017, 11:58:37 pm
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i think you're focusing too much on the "kof conversion" process gimmick and not enough on actually animating fluidly. the actual devs didnt start off with the shading, they started with animating the models well with rough shading and then they clean up and then add it in afterwards.

focusing more on the other things than actually animating well enough will only slow you down and hinder your progress much more down the road

we need to explore tools at the maximum, i will do manual edit on every single sprite, but had a good model and shader really helps
restart stand
3d work
Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#39  December 01, 2017, 10:40:01 pm
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close light punch
Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#40  December 02, 2017, 03:55:25 am
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You're getting the inertia of the skirt wrong. As the body moves forward, the skirt will try to remain in its original position. This means that the skirt should be moving backwards in relation to the body, not forwards. (maybe once gravity kicks in and the skirt catches up with the rest of the body, it can overshoot and flap forward a bit).

Right now it looks like there's a puff of air coming out of her you-know-what (sorry for being crude).

I would also recommend giving her at list a tiny bit of windup before throwing her punch. It lacks impact otherwise. She should raise her hand slightly in front of her face and THEN throw her punch. Otherwise it looks like she's pushing something, not punching something. If you don't want to give it windup, at least have her twist her body a bit as well as twist her punching arm.
Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 03:58:26 am by Graphicus
Re: KOF XIII Maximilian Meyers and Maxy Meyers (Boxers Chars)
#41  December 02, 2017, 04:11:23 am
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it would be cool if you look at bi bang beat Burai yamamoto, rick strowd, Franco bash, little mac, balrog, tj combo, Vanessa, Heavy D, Dudley as references for certain animations
to get that boxer feel for the characters

interesting project