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Koopakoot is sent to jail (Read 4172 times)

Started by Bastard Mami, October 20, 2014, 01:51:11 am
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#41  October 20, 2014, 05:42:40 am
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You know, I wonder. Can the argument be posed that, "No one can say whether or not these are children's features?"

When maximilianjenus raised the question of legal websites that depict this stuff, it immediately brought me back to REAL LEGAL pornstars who look like children. Remember the infamous Lil Lupe case; and she's extremely popular.

I wonder if that denotes a double standard if it is only based on "features"? Should this mean that it should be illegal to look at pornstars who look "young"? Can it be argued that this too creates a situation where fetishists can be driven to pursue their desires? Seems that way to me.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#42  October 20, 2014, 05:44:13 am
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You know, I wonder. Can the argument be posed that, "No one can say whether or not these are children's features?"

When maximilianjenus raised the question of legal websites that depict this stuff, it immediately brought me back to REAL LEGAL pornstars who look like children. Remember the infamous Lil Lupe case; and she's extremely popular.

I wonder if that denotes a double standard if it is only based on "features"? Should this mean that it should be illegal to look at pornstars who look "young"? Can it be argued that this too creates a situation where fetishists can be driven to pursue their desires? Seems that way to me.
like i said i think the law is strict and cuts down on ambiguity and would shoot first, ask questions later. then whenever someone proves the porn star in question is over 18, the case gets dropped. not that big an issue. the only issue is ambiguity. if people dont want ambiguity, they use evidence to proves theres not and go on their way.

there is always legal disclaimers before porn vids talking about everyone being of legal age afaik, so i dont think you have an issue here.
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#43  October 20, 2014, 05:47:37 am
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Right, but could the guy have argued that she's an adult with a kid's features? You'd say they'd reject that or that you'd reject that?

I can't decide personally. I think that the lil websites and pornstars of that sort do encourage the fetish... and in an even worse way. But banning that would violate rights. /]My last post
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#44  October 20, 2014, 05:48:54 am
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I'd wonder what Ume/Gaza's view on where we draw the line is, then.

Playing devil's advocate here, you seem pretty adamant about the law being strict over sexual abuse to minors even in fiction. If this is the case, why would it being sexual even matter then? If abusing/harming a child in any matter is illegal, then shouldn't that being depicted translate over to the law?

I mean, if we take the idea of "enjoying watching it drawn will illicit a similar response", then should Gurren Lagan be outlawed because of depicted violence towards children? How about murder of children in visual fiction? Murder of adults?

Just some food for thought.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#45  October 20, 2014, 05:52:11 am
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well on a legal standpoint, i dont think his argument wouldve held water cause theres too much ambiguity. how can the law in the uk that bans this sort of porn just dismiss a case cause the guy says "trust me, thats an adult who looks like a toddler." the only way he can prove that shit is getting the dude in japan who drew that shit to say it is.

I mean, if we take the idea of "enjoying watching it drawn will illicit a similar response", then should Gurren Lagan be outlawed because of depicted violence towards children? How about murder of children in visual fiction? Murder of adults?

Just some food for thought.
i figured this would be brought up but laws are just stricter when it comes to children than adults. its about protecting them. im just sticking within the confines of pronography- violence in media is a whole other big issue.

the laws im talking strictly deal with sex with children. with exploitation, in more broader terms.
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Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 05:58:33 am by Gaza Haganer
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#46  October 20, 2014, 05:57:05 am
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ume: yes, the very idea that it is illegal is what's scary, I learned they have a “Dangerous Cartoons Act” in the UK, which makes 50% of anime and manga illegal to this degree.


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Unfortunately this sort of how Australian law works in terms of who and who isn’t of legal age in pornography. It doesn’t matter what their birth certificate says or the legal paperwork the production company has on file, if you look under 18 (and seriously, that’s incredibly subjective), it’s illegal. It’s poorly designed legislation by politicians who fear a backlash from voters if they outright ban porn, but want to put enough hurdles in the way so distributors find it difficult to release material.

The outcome is that people are criminalised and labelled as sex offenders (and paedophiles) for owning pornography that people in other western democracies can freely buy and own with out consequence.



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There are some subtle differences though, and the UK is considerably stricter than Canada and the US (any sexually explicit depiction of a character implied or stated as being under 18 is illegal, compared to North America where the character actually has to LOOK underage), while Australia is considerably more relaxed (the depiction is illegal if a reasonable person can't distinguish between it and a photograph).
at least australia does not bother about defending the rights of fictional people, especially ina  legal system with legal resources that shoudl rather be fighting cases like this:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089

Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 06:01:45 am by [MFG]maximilianjenus
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#47  October 20, 2014, 06:02:11 am
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well that is a problem, but my solution to that is to tweak the law so that you do need to prove age not remove it entirely so people can get away with child porn because some people have porn of childish adults.

i dont think porn of any character that is clearly implied to be or stated to be under 18 should be allowed. thats just my opinion. the "implied" part is problematic but so is everything else in the world.
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#48  October 20, 2014, 06:05:11 am
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#49  October 20, 2014, 06:09:59 am
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this is good, but where is said report, links turn up a 404.

i get what youre saying about the video games, but i do see people who like SOLELY pedophilic imagery to be pedophiles or at least complacent/supportive of it

in the case of video games there is plenty of documentation no link exists- but all i ahve on thsi right now is one currently unavailable study, so i need more sources than that to come to a conclusion there is no link.
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#50  October 20, 2014, 06:17:11 am
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Yeah thats pretty much what Ive been thinking.
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#51  October 20, 2014, 06:19:52 am
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so youve been thinking nothing at all?
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#52  October 20, 2014, 06:24:56 am
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no after reading all of this im now thinking what Trololo is thinking "WTF"
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#53  October 20, 2014, 06:28:49 am
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wow you sure are a flow killer, as in killer of a threads flow. jesus christ
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#54  October 20, 2014, 06:57:18 am
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PSA: please do not post in a thread if you havent read it and at least looked at any corresponding links
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#55  October 20, 2014, 07:01:51 am
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Excuse me, but how the hell can this be an offense which could lead to jail time?

Easy: (likely unconsensual) sex that involves young people who can't defend themselves, that's probably how the government would see it.

Fictional media is just that. No need to go crazy over "people" who don't exist, regardless of how disturbing it may be. Besides, too many "twists" to determine who is and isn't underage in a medium where anybody can be created to be anything. Yeah it's easy to decipher obvious implications based  on comparisons to real life, but at the end of the day it's all fantasy. Images of real life children are obviously different (since reality has far more restrictions as to what's possible) and should be treated as such.

Of course any government will never see it as such because the concept "promotes" child porn and whatnot. This really isn't that much different from video games. The one difference that does stick out is that people who enjoy depictions of gang violence doesn't translate to "real life murder," where as someone who is aroused by a child looking character would logically be labeled a pedophile (not always the case of course). Even then, that doesn't hold a lot of weight if said "pedophile" never acts out on any child. Anyway, the idea of sexualizing children is one of the most (if not the most) heinous things one can imagine, so people are going to react.

Now i'm out of this thread.

Good move.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#56  October 20, 2014, 07:06:21 am
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hey, [e] can you rename the thread? or i will do it for you if you want. i want to avoid more shitposts related to the joke. it hasnt worked well
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Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#57  October 20, 2014, 07:08:58 am
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He went to bed so you may not be getting a response on that anytime soon.

Also I hate having to delete my own posts because someone messed up the flow of the thread.

Amy

Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#58  October 20, 2014, 07:14:37 am
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hey, [e] can you rename the thread? or i will do it for you if you want. i want to avoid more shitposts related to the joke. it hasnt worked well

Well at first I thought Koopa got sent to jail but then turned out to be just another guy. I could be bitching around but I ain't even mad.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#59  October 20, 2014, 08:45:08 am
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the rationale is that indulging in pornography of little children (andd these drawings will apparently depict VERY young children) implicitly means you are okay with this happening with children. they may not be real, but they are still children.
I don't agree with this point of view. To me, it's basically the same as saying "if you like violent movies or killing people in a GTA game, this implicitely means you're okay with people getting killed (which is an opinion and you can't be punished for thinking X or Y deserves to die) or even killing people (which is obviously false since all GTA players don't go on a killing spree)".

THere's a huge difference to me between fiction and reality (captain obvious to the rescue...). I can laugh when seeing a movie about someone being tortured or cut to pieces, enjoy violence, etc. but this is only because I know it's entirely fictional. The same thing would happen for real, I'd be disgusted.
It could be the same for these loli mangas.
Re: Koopakoot is sent to jail
#60  October 20, 2014, 08:59:01 am
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I saw my name in this thread and....um....
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