YesNoOk
avatar

Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP) (Read 1338 times)

Started by Doggiedoo, July 15, 2008, 07:15:07 pm
Email this topic
View printable version
Share this topic:
Page 1 of 11   Go Down

Doggiedoo

Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#1  July 15, 2008, 07:15:07 pm
  • avatar
  • **
Might be a bit early to post this, but it'd be useful to hear opinions on how to implement Leo's various weapons before work begins. In Warzard, Leo could gain a collection of weapons which he could switch between mid-battle. He had different shields too, but only the strongest one was used at a time. Unfortunately, due to the limitations of Mugen, compromises will have to be made in either accuracy or presentation. There are several ways to go about this:

1a. Weapons changeable at will, but disappears during custom states:
This option will be the most accurate to Warzard in terms of gameplay, but it isn't be possible to display the currently chosen weapon if Leo is put in a custom state, e.g. during a throw. One way to handle this is to simply have his weapon disappear under these conditions. Ihoo1836's Dark Raven is an example of this approach. Afterwards, it can either magically appear again, or there can be a short (and probably invulnerable) anim of Leo taking it out. Note that if this approach is taken, none of the below options can be done without including an alternate .sff file.

1b. Weapons changeable at will, but morph to default during custom states:
Same as above, but the current weapon suddenly changes into his default sword during custom states. Unlike option 1a, it would be possible to have option 1b implemented parallel to options 2, 3 and 4, with users choosing between them via the Config.txt file.

2. Weapons as temporary power-ups.
Leo magically transforms his sword as a special, EX, or super move, and retains it's new form until he's knocked down, put in a custom state, or a time limit runs out. A variation of option 1b, this one would allow for more exotic and powerful effects on each weapon at the cost of restricting their usage. It'd also make it more believable when the powered-up weapon is forced to revert to his default sword.

3. Weapons appear during special moves:
Gal129's Leo does this; for different strength special attacks, different swords are used. This has the benefit of allowing more visual and gameplay variety between the different versions of each attack, and does not require compromises for custom states.

4. No extra weapons:
The easiest, but plainest solution. :P Fastest to implement, minimal fuss, but lacking in flash and dazzle.


I'm hoping to have a consensus on which option should be the first choice. Bear in mind that, while options 1b, 2, 3 and 4 can all be implemented at once (leaving it up to the player to choose between them), it will take considerable time to add them all, hence it'd be useful to know which option to start with first. Alternative suggestions welcome.

Will follow up on proposed weapon properties later.

EDIT: Changed title for clarity.
EDIT2: Another edit for clarity.
Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 08:52:31 pm by Doggiedoo

Iced

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth
#2  July 15, 2008, 07:28:33 pm
  • ******
  • does this look like the face of mercy?
I like the changing weapons one, it even allows you to go get more swords from other sources to make more moves, and perhaps a final swordmaster style move where he uses all of em , summons a titanic blade and finishes the opponent.

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth
#3  July 15, 2008, 07:29:38 pm
  • ***
  • Candy Princess
    • www.youtube.com/user/LaMissFa1ry
If you don't do option 1 I'll cry. :( ;D

I'd just have it where the weapon disappears and then he takes it out. It would suck for it to disappear but having different weapons and effects would be so cool it would override it. The other options sound sort of unappealing but that's just me

Rote Zaungast

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#4  July 15, 2008, 07:31:48 pm
  • *****
1a
"I’m never gonna grab anything by its balls, especially life. especially if life shows up in the incarnation where it would have testicles. if life showed up and had balls, the last thing I would do is grab those balls" - kyle kinane

Rōjenomu

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#5  July 15, 2008, 07:33:28 pm
  • ****
  • King of Sona
1 for sure
maybe 1b would be better suited i guess
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Quote
Lord Canti Says:
i was playing FFVII and I accidently named Red XIII Cyanide D:

card sagas wars is gonna own put this in your signature if you agree

old avy http://i36.tinypic.com/scgkmh.png
oversized signature! please read the rules

OZ

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#6  July 15, 2008, 07:41:02 pm
  • ******
  • ಠ_ಠ
While 1 would be optimal (as well as amazing), I would accept option 2, simply because it sounds do-able.
It would be a pity if the project was dropped due to over ambitious planning.
ಠ_ಠ

Bastard Mami

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#7  July 15, 2008, 07:54:31 pm
  • ******
  • [E]
    • Mexico
I would suggest a mix of 1 and 4.

He has his default weapon, when he is thrown he keeps his weapon. he morphs to other weapons not at will, but via a config.txt file I suggest to use a simple passowrd system in there, and use some eeasy to code achievement to show the passwords in game for the new weapons.

This way you can code him like a normal char, then as you update it you can add more weapons.

Ohsky

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#8  July 15, 2008, 07:58:10 pm
  • ****
I suppose it´s not a question of time in doing a good job on this. If your leo is done similar to the ones that there are already, considering options 2,3 and 4.....   :'(


So 1a or 1b is what i bet to be done. An amazing work requires time.

what satou sei says seems interesting, because the real accuracy that can be shown in that, via paswords to be put in some config file (in the game i see it a little complicated to be putting numbers or wathever....), although that only works for the weapons achieved during leveling up leo i think.

Leveling up to achieve passwords using some points counter based on hits done like any normal fighting game then when u reach the level where u get the sword, the pass appears in the top of the screen or the down, till the end of the match or somth, to be seen jaja.

bluesilver

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#9  July 15, 2008, 08:10:14 pm
  • avatar
  • **
Whatever option you finally choose, 4 def. has to be there, as it is kind of a basic mode.  :)

Doggiedoo

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#10  July 15, 2008, 08:46:15 pm
  • avatar
  • **
Option 1 seems to be the most popular, so let's go with that. When Leo gets thrown (or whatever), there'll be some kind of elemental *poof* effect, and his weapon disappears. He'll take it out again while getting up, or after recovering.

Unfortunately, it's not possible to merge options 1 and 4... by 'default sword', I meant the sword that appears in his required sprites, not the sword he begins the match with. In order to let him select a weapon to keep for the whole match (including during custom states), each weapon would need it's own .sff file, which would take up too much space and bandwidth. The closest that can be achieved is option 1a, but without in-game switching.

Leveling up seems an interesting idea for arcade and survival mode. Though he can't gain elemental resistances, he can gain health, damage and power capacity. He could also select a new weapon to get at regular intervals. Starting level and rate of improvement would be specified in the Config.txt, like Dark Raven.


About elemental properties... they can be done cosmetically (see the effects on Valdoll's dragons, for example), but making them do bonus/reduced damage to certain characters is tricky (to be complete, every single version of every applicable character needs to be listed for every weapon). An option could be given that instead changes each weapon's general performance. Some ideas:

Default: Increased power gain
Fire: guard damage
Ice: longer stun
Thunder: faster
Axe: more damage on hit
Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 08:50:39 pm by Doggiedoo

la;MISS~FairY-!

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#11  July 15, 2008, 09:05:43 pm
  • ***
  • Candy Princess
    • www.youtube.com/user/LaMissFa1ry
He should also get a new super attack depending on his weapon.

Like for example

Ice: he stabs his sword into the floor and makes three big ice pillars stab fourth. (Think sol soliton but weaker) If a character gets hit they'll become trapped within the pillar and leo can hit them and smash it, dealing damage.
default: a rush type slash thing maybe?
fire: maybe sending a big wave of flames at you (I'd need to think)
thunder: lightning strikes his sword and it becomes "charged" for a while, giving him a bit more damage and comboing power.
axe: he throws it like a boomerang perhaps? Like a projectile.

I'd also really like to see updates for Sekhmet, Blade, Valdoll to give their entire warzard intros with him featuring the text and stuff. I think that would be awesome!

Ohsky

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#12  July 16, 2008, 12:38:46 am
  • ****
I suppose the "level up" text wich appears in warzard can be done, easily?, with the sound and voice that is in the game.

But, what about the gems dropping to achieve points?, that is much to ask for? lol. I see that useful if the char levels up like in the game indeed.


But what i don´t know really, if you decide to do the level up thing, is wich weapons you will include: all the swords plus the elemental ones and the axe, or only elementals and axe??: those were gotten by doing secret things i dont remember, not leveling, or i am wrong?, i don´t remember when i played a lot that game back in 1998 or so. Although i have the rom and the emulator, i dont remember a shit lol.
Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 12:43:48 am by Ohsky

Doggiedoo

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#13  July 16, 2008, 05:57:13 am
  • avatar
  • **
The leveling up messages, experience coins and text intros should all be possible. His Intro/ending storyboards can be added too, though they might seem a bit out of place in a non-Warzard themed Mugen setup.

For his early versions, I hope to include the Diamond Sword/Shield, the elemental swords, and the Axe. Once leveling is implemented, his other swords will follow. The elemental swords will be gained by killing an opponent with the matching Mystic Break at level 16 or above (similar to how it's done in Warzard), and both the Axe and the Legendary Sword can be gained simply by leveling up. Note that leveling will be much faster than in Warzard, since there should be a chance of reaching maximum level before the final boss of an Arcade run.

EDIT: As reference, here are the properties of the weapons as they were in Warzard (at least, from what I could test), taking the Diamond Sword as the point of comparision:

Elemental swords: Less overall damage, except on special and hyper attacks against bosses weak to that element (in that case, they do the highest damage of all weapons), and vice versa for resistant bosses.

Axe: Higher damage on normal attacks, weaker damage on special attacks. Same damage on his hyper attack.

Legendary Sword: Highest damage on normal attacks, highest damage on special and hyper attacks if elemental weakness is ignored.

One point of note is that these properties only affect hits that actually use the weapon; they do not affect Leo's kicks or strikes with his shield. Speaking of shield strikes, the type of shield he has doesn't seem to change their damage; they only increase his defence.
Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 06:30:34 am by Doggiedoo

Robert The Small

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#14  July 16, 2008, 08:32:56 am
  • avatar
  • ***
Any chance you'll throw Captain America's shield in, for shits and giggles?  ;P

Anyways, I love your boss characters, so I can't wait to see how you'd tackle a normal one.
"With ignorance and arrogance, success is assured."
~Mark Twain
Sig by TempesT

Cybaster

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#15  July 16, 2008, 11:21:57 am
  • ******
  • Limited time to use Infinite power !
    • France
    • network.mugenguild.com/cybaster/
Nice to see you went for option 1. :)
I can't wait to see how all this will turn out, especially with the experience system.

If this can be of any help, here are two character with an experience system :
Randy Mc Green by Splode, in the hosted characters section.
Link by Silencer, RMX, Mike Werewolf, etc.
Link has the most complex experience system to date IIRC, and you should check his readme... that's how readmes should be. :D

And yeah, adding stuff like Captain America's shield and other custom swords would be top-notch, but let's wait for the basic stuff first. :)
Good luck.

Ohsky

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#16  July 16, 2008, 12:05:33 pm
  • ****
mm for your first version you wont include his first sword?¿ (the one with red things on the blade)  :S


That link can level uuup? , never seen-knew that and i had that char for many time.

darkmoon766

Re: Leo from Warzard/Red Earth (Pre-WIP)
#17  July 16, 2008, 10:16:40 pm
  • avatar
  • **
First of all, thank you so much for your Warzard work.  Now the Leo insanity.... :sugoi:

If you do use the leveling system, I hope you include in the config the ability to make everything available immediately
kind of like the Link that was mentioned.  Of course, with all the hard work you have done, please ultimately do what you want to do, and think is best, as this will obviously be the best end product.

 ;D
Page 1 of 11   Go Up