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Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (3/14/13) (Read 17256 times)

Started by kingcharz, February 13, 2013, 11:06:26 pm
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kingcharz

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#21  February 22, 2013, 02:22:23 am
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GarchompMatt said, February 21, 2013, 11:58:36 pm
-I think it's when the bomb is on the ground. Try throwing it, waiting for it to hit the ground and getting a character to kick it.

-Comboing is dealt with in the CMD. Something like "triggerx = stateno = y && Movecontact", where "x" is whatever trigger number you're at, and "y" is the stateno of the move you want the attack to be combo'd from. I'd give you example, but I physically can't at the moment.

Got it. I guess I just need to figure out what moves should come before/after the other to make combos.

And with the bomb bug, you're saying that the Link clone comes from the bomb hitting the opponent, so if a bomb were to be thrown to the ground and explode in front of the opponent, nothing would happen. Is that right?

GarchompMatt

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#22  February 22, 2013, 09:30:59 am
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It's not from the bomb hitting the opponent, but rather the opponent landing a hit on the bomb while it's on the ground.
3DS FC: 0516 - 7483 - 3564
Iced said, July 24, 2013, 01:25:14 am
Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.

kingcharz

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#23  February 22, 2013, 06:02:43 pm
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GarchompMatt said, February 22, 2013, 09:30:59 am
It's not from the bomb hitting the opponent, but rather the opponent landing a hit on the bomb while it's on the ground.

WOOOOW! I just recreated it and it looks so awesome! But obviously it's a bug we need to fix.

I fixed the problem. The bomb was never suppose to have any blue CLSN boxes. Now I will try to fix it so that if an opponent hits it, it'll just explode (similar to the bomb in midair).
Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 06:19:24 pm by kingcharz

Txpot

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#24  February 22, 2013, 09:56:29 pm
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Here's my feedback on this. As the others say, it does have potential to be a great character. I will try to keep the feedback as simple and as non-clashing with other feedback as possible.

NOTE: Comparing this to both the 1.2 update and the feedback I would've put in, because I have posted this too slowly.

*Big Problems (High priority):

1. Collisions are a mixed bag. They are either too big, are not big enough to cover the attack/character, are too many, or outright disappear on some animations. However, almost all attack collisions have infinite priority. Some examples:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Stand Weak Punch, Air strong Punch, and Crouch Medium Punch Respectively.

You'll have to cover those up with blue collisions so that you'll have a fair trade of hits between you and your opponent, but not too much. Try to aim for 3 or less collisions of each type for the frame in the animation. I wouldn't bother using green collisions unless you're sure that the sprite won't move during the animation, because it means you'll have to use blue collisions with the green in the same frames of the animation, causing some problems to occur. The standing animation you did is a good example, but the collisions there are too much. I'd say somewhere like this:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Left is yours, Right is mine.

2. Crouch Weak and Medium Punch cannot be chained together without the opponent being able to recover. This also happens with the launcher > any air attack. You may need to add extra time for "ground.hittime" for the first two, and set the time of the launcher using "air.hittime = 30" to make it easier to combo.

3. Every basic ground attack other than Stand Medium Kick cannot be blocked to air opponents because the "guardflag" part is missing the "A". Use "guardflag = MA" to make it blockable in any state.
a. Using basic stand Weak attacks makes an air opponent bounce really high, making it easy to juggle the opponent. Used with the above problem and you can win easily with those attacks. Reduce the Y velocity part of "air.velocity" to prevent this.

4. The Super Jump is hard to perform. Within the command file (.cmd), the super jump "changestate" has "StateType = S", meaning you can only perform this if you are only standing and not crouching. Change this to "StateType != A" to make it easier to perform, since it checks whether you're NOT in the air.

5. [Downward Thrust] cannot be blocked because the "guardflag" part is missing. (Add in the "guardflag" part of the "Hitdef" code.)
a. You can repeat the command up to 4 times on the opponent within a combo of this attack alone because you can jump after you land, as well as perform this move at any height, making the recovery time between each attack very fast. Increast the time it takes for link to get to the "stab" part of the state.
b. This is also a very easy way to gain lots of power, since you gain power right before the attack. Reduce the power you get upon being within the state.

6. The Boomerang should have blue collisions so that it can be hit during flight. As it stands, it can interrupt opponent attacks as it has infinite priority.
a. The enemy is not being pushed back enough from being hit by the Boomerang. You should add more to the "ground.velocity" of the "Hitdef" state.

7. Spin Attack cannot hit the opponent from behind, as there are no attack collisions for behind.
a. It deals multiple hits, but each attack has the same time used on the "statedef" as every other spin attack. It's rather pointless to use the weak version, when you have the strong version that deals more damage, so you need to adjust the time taken on the "statedef" so that weaker versions come out of this with a quick recovery time. Think of this as what you did for the air versions.

8. Hero's Bow feels unnatual. Your opponent should be reeling from being shot with an arrow (like the Boomerang), but they instead brush it off like its a mosquito.
a. It can also be used with the Boomerang to make an unstoppable projectile combo using Boomerang > Hero's Bow > Boomerang > Hero's Bow > Boomerang... You may need to use the same recovery time method used on the Boomerang for this (i.e using a variable to prevent the player from abusing the boomerang).

9. The strong version of Hookshot doesn't have a limiter for using this, but the weaker versions do. You might as well follow suit and add the limiter for the strong version.

10. The Bomb's gravity feels unnatual. It goes up, but then comes down like it hit a ceiling and it angles its approach to the ground. It's like shooting a bullet and the bullet bounces around the room. The "Gravity" state will help you achieve good results. There is also no sound playing after the initial "lit bomb" sound.
a. The bomb doesn't explode when the opponent guards it. Also, the bomb can be used over and over because the bomb doesn't have any recovery time between bombs, other than if it lands on the ground.
b. The bomb can be hit while on the ground. If this happens, a clone of Link appears, and you won't be able to summon another bomb again for the rest of the round unless the clone is destroyed. The "Hitoverride" state will help you there.

11. Megaton Hammer doesn't deal any damage through guard, which is strange.
a. Like the Spin Attack, it has the same time used on the "statedef" as every other hammer attack. It's rather pointless to use the weak version, when you have the strong version that deals more damage.
b. Megaton Hammer (Medium) > Megaton Hammer (Strong), Megaton Hammer (Medium)x2, and Megaton Hammer (Strong)x2 with both hitting the opponent is possible, but you need good reflexes. Your reward is between 242-270 damage, more damage than most supers.

12. Speaking of which, every super can be interrupted by the opponent. You should stick a "Nothitby" state in there for the duration of the Triforce Slash and Hidden Skills, and after Super Spin Attack activates that lasts about 20 ticks.

13. There was a little glitch that happened with Link dying and his roll state. I somehow managed to get into a recovery roll right when Link hit the floor once, and Link basically got stuck in the state, constantly rolling backwards even after the round ended. It may have something to do with the way the Backward Recovery Roll was coded, with the commands "~B, DB, D, any kick".

*Small Problems (Low priority):

1. The SFF file has alignment issues. Lots of Link's sprites are aligned to the right and needs moving to the center. This can (and will, according to the .AIR file) give you hell when it comes to the animation file, because you have to correct each and every alignment before you get to adding your collisions. Move the sprites to the center of the axis cross (but just on top of it to where Link's feet should be) within the SFF so that each sprite flows smoothly with the animation you're trying to achieve, and you'll have no problems with alignment issues, although it's a different story if it's like that for special effects.

2. One sprite looks rather weird to me:



Peak and coming down from Jumping. With the way it looks, its like Link has shorts on, and they've been crushed. You may need to get rid of the diagonal shadow below the belt, as you won't need it because there's nothing there to cause a shadow. Also, the alignment is off by a few pixels, as if it was based on Link's sword. It makes him seem like he moves forward a bit and backwards a bit as his chest is growing/shrinking by a few pixels.

3. I feel that the animation for Crouch Weak Kick and Crouch Medium Kick should be switched around instead. As it stands, Weak Kick comes out slower than Medium Kick, and it feels weird when using it within a combo.

4. I don't like the Spin Attack in general. It does have good potential; It could be a single hit move that slashes the opponent away from your face, as well as push the opponent back when they're not being hit anyway. It could be used to draw the opponent in as a vacuume to acompany the multiple hits from it. It could even be used as a guard-breaking move.

5. Megaton Hammer doesn't hit the opponent while they're lying on the floor. While it is a minor issue, I always think of this situation whenever I use it: "I've run out of standard launchers for the current combo, but I want to juggle the opponent more, so I should use Megaton Hammer to knock the opponent up in the air!".

6. Instead of the arrow piercing the opponent (which seems rather boring), the Light Arrow could be used as a bomb effect so that when it hits the opponent, it explodes around the opponent with light magic.

7. The character is lacking a bit in effects, both graphical and code-wise. For example, Rapid Slash should have an "Afterimage" within the state so that it represents the speed within the attack, otherwise it looks like link's arm is being pulled off and then relocated somewhere near his arm. Standing Hard Punch is another, where the sword should have some "melting" effects so that the sword is shown being swung at a high velocity. Nothing a bit of pixeling can't handle though.

8. In the [Size] part of the .cns, head.pos and mid.pos are the wrong values. You may need to correct them, otherwise it looks weird when being grabbed by a character that uses those positions.

9. You have a power rangers sprite as a custom "Frozen" animation/sprite. You may want to change that so it represents Link.

Overall, the character is good but there is room for improvement everywhere. I know the character has used a template/base because the combo system is hard to use, especially launchers > any air attack without the opponent recovering. The sprites give way for many concept attacks. People will be itching to make their own version of this character, especially the unused wolf sprite within the SFF for a Wolf-Link-based attack. If all these issues are fixed, this character could be one of the best Link out there.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

★~~♥❤~Λ♍Ї-sӆn~❤♥~~★ said, October 19, 2014, 08:41:10 pm
Every character needs the shun goku satsu because you can do the sacred death art any day of the week, akuma won't be pissed at all

GarchompMatt

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#25  February 22, 2013, 11:22:25 pm
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I know infinite priority moves are "unfair", but think logically here: if your sword got hit, would you take damage? No. You may feel recoil through the sword, but not direct damage.
3DS FC: 0516 - 7483 - 3564
Iced said, July 24, 2013, 01:25:14 am
Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.

Cybaster

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#26  February 23, 2013, 12:07:24 am
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You're still supposed to balance it. Apart from a fullgame environment, this is usually done by putting red CLSNs on the whole sword and a blue one on half of the sword, covering more than just the arm and hand, just for the sake of fairness and not too much priority.

kingcharz

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#27  February 23, 2013, 12:24:24 am
  • *
Thanks Txpot for your help. I'm working on implementing some of your comments, while other comments have been dealt with beforehand. I did have questions though.

1) Where specifically am I suppose to put the "air.hittime = 30" for the launcher hit? On all the standing and crouching attacks? And how can I add the ground.hittime for jumping attacks?

2) You advised to lower the air velocity (y-axis) of the hits so the opponent doesn't fly up to high. I see that most of them are -7 and a few are -2. Is -2 a good value to go with?

3) How do you go about changing the time for the Spin attack (and Megaton Hammer), where the weaker one gets more time priority?

4) Where do I put the NotHitBy in the specials in hypers? Is it in the HitDef section?

5) I managed to fix the bomb problem before I read this, but I was thinking of fixing the bomb lighting up sound like you mentioned. I wanted to program it where the sound would go off when the move begins. The sound would be a long file and I would want the sound to shut off when the bomb explodes (or just moves on to the exploding animation) whether it was hit or not. I tried using StopSnd but I couldn't get it to work right. Is there something you can add to this?

Thanks so much and sorry for all the questions.
Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 02:58:36 am by kingcharz

GarchompMatt

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#28  February 23, 2013, 12:57:37 am
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3DS FC: 0516 - 7483 - 3564
Iced said, July 24, 2013, 01:25:14 am
Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.

kingcharz

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#29  February 23, 2013, 03:05:04 am
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Txpot

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#30  February 23, 2013, 04:49:49 pm
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Replying to your questions:

1. Within "[Statedef 420]" (Crouching Strong Punch, Launcher), there is a "Hitdef" state within the attack:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

You may want to play around with the values, but otherwise you should be able to air combo now. You won't need to put it in any other state definition because the launcher is the one that needs attention for now.

As for the "ground.hittime", its the same principle as the "air.hittime"; you find the value within the statedef, and you change the number to whatever you please.

2. It's ok, but you can change it to a higher or lower number. As it looks, you can get away with -2 in every basic attack state except the launcher, and have an ok feel to combos.

3. The Megaton Hammer's time can be changed by adding time to the first two frames in the animation of the attack (e.g, number 1700), but you need to get rid of the extra collision at the last frame, and then duplicate the whole animation twice before you can do this. After this, you can just change the animation used for the state of the relative numbers in the .CNS.

For example, change the number used in the "anim" code here to the corresponding animation;

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty


If you don't know what I mean about the animations, you can use the following code for the .AIR file:


Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty



Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty



Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty


The same method applies to the spin attack, but at the 16th frame of the animation for it. For example, find the following frame in the txt editor of the .AIR file:

Code: 
168,1, -88,-33, 12

Change the last number to a higher number, like 17, for each spin attack state that uses the animation. When done correctly, Link should be slower on the 16th frame.

5. As I see the .SND file, you only have the "bomb light fuse" sound, and not a "bomb continuous fuse" sound. You'll need to get a sound effect for the latter. Use a website like this: (http://noproblo.dayjo.org/ZeldaSounds/OOT/index.html)

Then you add it in to the .SND file and change the group and sound number respectively. Finally, you add a "PlaySnd" state that uses the "Loop" and "Channel" functions, like this:

Code: 
[State Bomb SFX Loop]
type = PlaySnd
trigger1 = time = 0
value = S?,??
Channel = 2
Loop = 1

Add that to the bomb's thrown state. Now use "StopSnd" to turn it off, and put it in the "Bomb explosion" state.

Code: 
[State Bomb SFX Stop]
type = StopSnd
trigger1 = time = 0
channel = 2

Sorry if this sounds confusing to you, as I think in a technological way to solve a problem.

★~~♥❤~Λ♍Ї-sӆn~❤♥~~★ said, October 19, 2014, 08:41:10 pm
Every character needs the shun goku satsu because you can do the sacred death art any day of the week, akuma won't be pissed at all

kingcharz

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#31  February 23, 2013, 07:14:20 pm
  • *
Thanks! I was able to put in everything, but I'm still having trouble with the bomb sound. I have a sound file that isn't a loop, but it's a combination of the bomb pull out, bomb lit and bomb fuse in one sound. If no one touches it, the sound will be followed by the explosion at the right time. I had that in mind instead of the loop if that's ok. The bomb fuse sound won't stop if the bomb goes off. Should I send you the Link char I have so far so you can see it. I can send you the bomb coding I have, but I think it would be better to give you the sounds also. Or should I go with the the bomb lit and bomb fuse loop separately?

Txpot

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#32  February 23, 2013, 09:40:11 pm
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You might as well send me the character, because I have the Link you posted to the public, and it may have different coding.

★~~♥❤~Λ♍Ї-sӆn~❤♥~~★ said, October 19, 2014, 08:41:10 pm
Every character needs the shun goku satsu because you can do the sacred death art any day of the week, akuma won't be pissed at all

kingcharz

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#33  February 24, 2013, 05:22:33 am
  • *

Txpot

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#34  February 24, 2013, 04:57:53 pm
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Ok, I've fixed the problem. My previous post about using "Playsnd" and "Stopsnd" still applies here, though you may need to change the channels if you're currently using them for another action/effect. Anyway, take out the "Stopsnd" state from the state where Link throws the bomb (Statedef 1080):

Code: 
[State Bomb SFX Stop]
type = StopSnd
trigger1 = stateno = 1083
channel = 2

Put it in "[Statedef -2]" and change the triggers so that it only activates if Link is NOT in the bomb-throwing state (Statedef 1080) and add a trigger that only activates if the bomb helper is NOT on the field, like this:

Code: 
[State Bomb SFX Stop]
type = StopSnd
trigger1 = stateno != 1080
trigger1 = numhelper(1080) = 0 ;<<< New trigger.
channel = 2

The only problem with this method is the sound plays until it ends if the player pauses the game via the Pause/Break key on the keyboard or a [Super]Pause state is currently playing.

I've encountered a few problems as well:

1. Some attacks can chain into things they shouldn't. Here are the offenders:

Air Hard Punch can chain into itself. You should get rid of the line shown in this code of the .CMD:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Afterwards, update the triggers so it then shows this:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

You can chain from Air Hard Punch into Air Medium Kick. You should get rid of the line shown in this code of the .CMD:

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Repeat as the earlier problem to fix this.

★~~♥❤~Λ♍Ї-sӆn~❤♥~~★ said, October 19, 2014, 08:41:10 pm
Every character needs the shun goku satsu because you can do the sacred death art any day of the week, akuma won't be pissed at all

kingcharz

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/20/13)
#35  February 24, 2013, 10:50:13 pm
  • *
Thank you so much! It sounds so beautiful now. I've also fixed the combo triggers you brought up. I believe all I need to do is finish up with cleaning the contact boxes. I only have a few animations left to do for the boxes, so hopefully it doesn't take long, unless there are new bugs found. But as of now, I love how he's turned out with everyones help.  :grin3:

kingcharz

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/25/13)
#36  February 25, 2013, 06:24:20 pm
  • *
Check out Link's new update posted today.

GarchompMatt

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/25/13)
#37  February 25, 2013, 10:06:10 pm
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Liking the update. :D
Plays a lot smoother than before, combos better (especially with the crouching attacks) and feels much more solid.

There's this weird glitch where he won't come out of his recovery roll. It's happened twice, but I've no idea what's causing it.
3DS FC: 0516 - 7483 - 3564
Iced said, July 24, 2013, 01:25:14 am
Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.

kingcharz

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/25/13)
#38  February 25, 2013, 10:28:01 pm
  • *
Are you talking about when Link is KO'd and he goes into a recovery roll loop instead of falling to the ground? I've seen it a few times, but don't know how to fix it.
     Posted: February 26, 2013, 03:52:12 am
Correction, I think I fixed the roll problem, but I don't know what to do to check it. I just ran Link deaths over and over and it looks good. But I'm not 100% sure how to trigger the bug to see that it's gone. It looks fixed to me though.

kingcharz

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/25/13)
#39  February 26, 2013, 07:56:49 pm
  • *
Hey TxPot,

I fixed the Megaton Hammer to hit opponents while on the ground, which you mentioned a while back ago. However, the opponent doesn't bounce from the ground, but just squirms on the ground using the Lie Down Hit (stay down) animation. Can you suggest anything, or is it fine on it's own. It looks good, but you did talk about another launcher for comboing.

GarchompMatt

Re: Link by KingCharz, ChaosDante, EMW & MICROmor UPDATED (2/25/13)
#40  February 26, 2013, 10:12:38 pm
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Yeah, normally when an OTG attack is used, the opponent just squirms about when hit. I'd say it's good.
3DS FC: 0516 - 7483 - 3564
Iced said, July 24, 2013, 01:25:14 am
Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.
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