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M206 Project Thread: Pag.10 Sagat new SFV STANCE IMPROVEMENTS (Read 101899 times)

Started by M206, December 06, 2017, 04:56:42 pm
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Re: Supreme Zangief by M206
#21  December 11, 2017, 06:56:51 pm
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Dude... That's wild... In both good and bad ways.
I like the idea with an extra grappling system... But I kinda find it a cheating to let Zangief/Player to simply grapple the enemy to death, ESPECIALLY since grapple is an unblockable move by definition... You definitely need do balance this feature somehow!

Can it be like King's system or you can break out if you do the same inputs as the grappler?

Unfortunately, I can't give a definitive answer here. But Throw Techs were made in MUGEN somehow, so maybe...
Re: Supreme Zangief by M206
#22  December 12, 2017, 08:03:05 am
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Dude... That's wild... In both good and bad ways.
I like the idea with an extra grappling system... But I kinda find it a cheating to let Zangief/Player to simply grapple the enemy to death, ESPECIALLY since grapple is an unblockable move by definition... You definitely need do balance this feature somehow!

thanks. ;) as i told, it's just a test. maybe i can keep it as it is and create a new lv.3 super (lowering the damage of course).
another option (more difficult) is to create a special command list to perform after every throw to be able to obtain the next one (with low timings etc), just like the red cyclone throw combo system. ;)
Re: Supreme Zangief by M206
#23  December 13, 2017, 12:24:03 pm
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Interesting.

But beware. visually some animations seems to have a very different display ratio, or to have been turned 90°.
They have to be fixed, otherwise it wil look strange.

I want to hug you...
Re: Supreme Zangief by M206
#24  December 14, 2017, 07:39:01 am
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thanks for your feedback. :)

but what animations are you referring to??

the only one i could think to try to wide up is the vertical suplex, all the other comes from the original sized sprites resized in the cns with cvs aspect ratio. ;)
Re: Supreme Zangief by M206
#25  December 15, 2017, 03:08:45 am
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You have some backwards Velocities for your throws. You can see at 1:55 in your 1st video Sagat bounces into Zangief.
The slam at 0:20 gets up way to fast for Zangief. The throw at 0:25 barely rolls away from P2. It's sound FX are that of punches instead of air.

I think there needs to be far more screen shakes and the sound FX need to be that of bombs for his ultras. The "normal" sounds you have now are lacking.

A FAST Zangief shouldn't be a thing.
A powerful, fully equipped Geif sounds amazing.
I think if he's going to have this much, his walk speed needs to be dropped to that of Dhalsim's or maybe a bit faster. Like the slam at 0:20. He's 90% back to P2 before he can get up. There has to be an even match up on throws. P1 and P2 should recover around the same time, with a slight advantage to P1. Maybe have the frame where his hand's on his knee be longer. Something that shows it took a lot of strength to do the move(s).
Either you're going to have to nerf the damage the throws do, or reduce the speed at which Zangief can close his distance. Or do both. Or make the moves impossible to perform. Which only helps AI out.

Zangief was a character you needed a ton of skill to play as. As a reward his damage was high. But the risk of being zoned by fireballs was always there. A fast Zangief kind of kills the negative of playing him. You may want to drop his health to normal or something. He's the tank. Slow moving but extremely powerful. He's supposed to be hard as heck to kill up close, and fireballs aren't supposed to do that much damage to him. If he's constantly in your face, something needs to change.

I like the multi-slam option. It's fun for P1 to be able to do. I'd just suggest making the 3rd hit do minimal damage. Maybe 5 points. From the 4th on it should be 1 point of damage for each slam. But again, the moves should be pretty hard to perform, but should be able to be found out. Something like each additional move should be a 360 motion. Timed out nicely I think it'd bring a lot of fun and life to the character. Missing the additional throws wouldn't be that detrimental either.

Looking forward to the changes you make on him.

I think he means the throw at 1:29. It seems to slide past P2 a bit and then snap back into position. Might want to look that over. Add some sound FX of him grabbing P2.
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Re: Supreme Zangief by M206
#26  December 16, 2017, 09:21:36 am
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thanks for your feedback. :)

but what animations are you referring to??

the only one i could think to try to wide up is the vertical suplex, all the other comes from the original sized sprites resized in the cns with cvs aspect ratio. ;)

I cannot remember all of them.
But in the anims where Zangief seems more "thin" than the others it's pretty obvious, they could be scalled to have more "width".
I think one of them is this custom wrestling move "brain buster-like" or something...

I want to hug you...
Re: Supreme Zangief by M206
#27  December 16, 2017, 01:05:14 pm
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A FAST Zangief shouldn't be a thing.
...
Zangief was a character you needed a ton of skill to play as. As a reward his damage was high. But the risk of being zoned by fireballs was always there. A fast Zangief kind of kills the negative of playing him.
...
If he's constantly in your face, something needs to change.
^ This!!
Try to capture the essence of Zangief.
Re: Supreme Zangief by M206
#28  December 16, 2017, 03:41:30 pm
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I mean it seems he has a different vision for him ya know it doesn't hurt to try new things with old characters
Re: Supreme Zangief by M206
#29  December 17, 2017, 03:17:58 am
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Dude... That's wild... In both good and bad ways.
I like the idea with an extra grappling system... But I kinda find it a cheating to let Zangief/Player to simply grapple the enemy to death, ESPECIALLY since grapple is an unblockable move by definition... You definitely need do balance this feature somehow!

Can it be like King's system or you can break out if you do the same inputs as the grappler?

Unfortunately, I can't give a definitive answer here. But Throw Techs were made in MUGEN somehow, so maybe...

If I recall correctly, Darun Meister from Street Fighter EX2 had a Meteor Combo where it was multiple command grabs in a row, while in the middle of it, Darun has to do multiple 360 motions with either a punch or a kick and the opponent has to just input a punch or a kick. If Darun's input of either punch or kick is the same as the target's input, then the move ends; but if not, then Darun continues doing one command grab after another, thus repeating the process of inputs, until the finisher, dealing a total of ~80% of damage. This way, it's like flipping a coin of some sort. I might be wrong on this one, but who knows.
Re: Supreme Sagat BETA 2.1 FIX 15 December
#30  December 20, 2017, 05:02:12 pm
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Heya, would you mind making any future update posts on Sagat in your Zangief project thread?. Topics in the release section should generally only be posted in when there's a new release out. Keeping everything sorted into projects and releases is important, after all.

Yes, you're right, sorry. No future Sagat updates in Zangief 3d. ;)

love your sagat...it's like a blend of tekken and mvc...always a new way to play.

great work

many thanks.

in the meanwhile, i've added 2 new tiger thrust kicks (thanks rotsprite):





here you are them in action, + new counter lev.3 (sort of) super (thanks infinite sagat edit):



Re: Re: Supreme Sagat BETA 2.1 FIX 15 December
#31  December 20, 2017, 05:24:32 pm
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I dunno, man. The animation and sprinting are good, even though the low one looks slightly stiff... But man, these kicks are SO nit Muay Thai. In fact, they are SO KARATE it looks really funny to see from Sagat!
And man, you SO need to finish that super... xD
Re: Re: Supreme Sagat BETA 2.1 FIX 15 December
#32  December 21, 2017, 02:15:21 am
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I like the new kicks a lot. They add more flair to his move set. Do you plan to copy some new moves from SFV Sagat?
Re: Re: Supreme Sagat BETA 2.1 FIX 15 December
#33  December 21, 2017, 04:23:22 am
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I agree with Trololo about the new kicks. They do look cool, but they don't look like any kicks that would be used in Muay Thai, at least traditionally. As far as other feedback, all I can offer is gameplay related.

- Awesome if his F+LK attack could also be used during a run so you could dash in and leg kick quickly.

- Fireball effects don't look that great. They just look too cut out, and the anti aliasing around the edges doesn't look very smooth, leaving semi transparent hard edges. Much better effects are available.

- I like the new stance, but maybe you could try one where his arms are right in front of his head with his fists held close together, so he
looks like he's covering his head and torso a little more. Here is a perfect example, the stance in the middle shows what I mean very well. Pretty similar to Sagat's current stance, and would require little editing for the most part.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

- Also, referencing the Muay Thai stance image I just showed above, with his current stance, his front foot should be raising up and down, not side to side.

- Might look a lot better if his after image effects were the same sprites/colors as Sagat himself, but transparent and blurred. The solid color after
images just don't look as cool in my opinion, and are very distracting when they are active.

- Why does his standing LK hit the enemy twice? If it's a 2 part attack, such as the knee hits first then the leg snap kicks second, the transition
needs to be more apparent. If it is 2 attacks, it's very hard to tell, and just looks like he's getting 2 for 1 hits counted. If it is a 2 part attack,
 maybe you could have the second part of the attack only activate if you press LK 2 times in a row, and not just on a single press. More mix up potential.

- When Sagat does his parry/counter on an enemy, it would be way cooler if when he picked the enemy up, he would then slam them
 on the ground instead of just throwing them. It would basically just be the current throw anim of him picking the enemy up, then reverse it and add a few more follow through sprites to show him slamming them into the ground.

- With Sagat's grab that grabs the opponent, then knees the crap out of them, would it be possible to only have it do a single knee attack, but if
you keep pushing the kick button then he will continue to do more knee attacks, but use special meter for each additional knee? This would be very cool, and having additional knees cost special meter would eliminate the ability to spam them.

- Attack idea: Foot stomp. While Sagat is in his parry position with his knee raised in front of his body, you could hit a kick button to end the parry stance early and do a foot stomp by slamming his raised knee down quickly in front of him onto the enemies foot. This would allow you to bait your opponent by making them think you are waiting to parry, but instead you catch them off guard by ending it early with an attack instead. This would allow for some good mix ups, especially if the parry could be canceled into from a basic attack, then ended early with the foot stomp. Keep them guessing so much they'd be scared to attack.

- Attack idea:  May be hard to sprite, but the massive knee that Ong Bak used on the running man in the Ong Bak 1 that stops the guy
dead in his tracks would be an awesome attack for Sagat to do after a successful parry/counter. That knee is devastating.
at 56 second mark in video:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

- Also might be hard, but it would look awesome if you could redraw his hand wraps to be roped wraps instead of the normal
bandage wraps. This might be overboard, but he could then have a power-up hyper where he dips them in glass during the hyper effect, then can beat the enemy down with shattered glass wraps until his special meter runs out doing extra damage, or still do normal damage, but with additional bleed damage and extra chip damage if attacks are blocked e.g. Erron Black MKX.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

- It's probably just me, but I think the palette select color orders should be reorganized. If they're all there, maybe it could be all his official game palettes first, followed by cosplays, followed by random color schemes. As it is now, they all seem to be in random order. Totally not a big deal, but it would be a nice additional touch.

Just my two cents. I do love what you've done to him so far, and have been a fan of this project since you started it a ways back. He plays very well, but as anything in life, there's always some room for improvement. No matter what you do, keep up the good work, and keep on keeping on.

Last thing, I made a new Sagat portrait a while ago that you are more than welcome to use it if you'd like.

Example has black bg, actual portrait has pink transparent bg.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/c3zc2q3kc0rsw85/Sagat_portrait.rar
Re: Re: Supreme Sagat BETA 2.1 FIX 15 December
#34  December 21, 2017, 04:32:47 am
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I have not tested him yet but from the videos he looks cool with them combos BUT make sure you nerf his projectiles if you keep them in like DW's sagat he's gonna be mental and absurd to play against.

As for sagat doing spin kicks and whatnot I could give two shits about it, as long as its not as absurd as Ryu doing flash kicks im all for it.  Interesting take on Sagat, I like it, he just needs testing and ironing out.
Re: Re: Supreme Sagat BETA 2.1 FIX 15 December
#35  December 21, 2017, 03:23:43 pm
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I dunno, man. The animation and sprinting are good, even though the low one looks slightly stiff... But man, these kicks are SO nit Muay Thai. In fact, they are SO KARATE it looks really funny to see from Sagat!
And man, you SO need to finish that super... xD

uhm, yes and no, i assure you that that kind of kicks are in muay thai too, absolutely. ;)
about the super, i know that the sounds are messed up.. :D :D :D

I like the new kicks a lot. They add more flair to his move set. Do you plan to copy some new moves from SFV Sagat?

thanks. ;) if there will be some new cool move in sfv why not? :) hopefully not too hard to sprite.. ;)

I agree with Trololo about the new kicks. They do look cool, but they don't look like any kicks that would be used in Muay Thai, at least traditionally. As far as other feedback, all I can offer is gameplay related.

- Awesome if his F+LK attack could also be used during a run so you could dash in and leg kick quickly.

- Fireball effects don't look that great. They just look too cut out, and the anti aliasing around the edges doesn't look very smooth, leaving semi transparent hard edges. Much better effects are available.

- I like the new stance, but maybe you could try one where his arms are right in front of his head with his fists held close together, so he
looks like he's covering his head and torso a little more. Here is a perfect example, the stance in the middle shows what I mean very well. Pretty similar to Sagat's current stance, and would require little editing for the most part.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

- Also, referencing the Muay Thai stance image I just showed above, with his current stance, his front foot should be raising up and down, not side to side.

- Might look a lot better if his after image effects were the same sprites/colors as Sagat himself, but transparent and blurred. The solid color after
images just don't look as cool in my opinion, and are very distracting when they are active.

- Why does his standing LK hit the enemy twice? If it's a 2 part attack, such as the knee hits first then the leg snap kicks second, the transition
needs to be more apparent. If it is 2 attacks, it's very hard to tell, and just looks like he's getting 2 for 1 hits counted. If it is a 2 part attack,
 maybe you could have the second part of the attack only activate if you press LK 2 times in a row, and not just on a single press. More mix up potential.

- When Sagat does his parry/counter on an enemy, it would be way cooler if when he picked the enemy up, he would then slam them
 on the ground instead of just throwing them. It would basically just be the current throw anim of him picking the enemy up, then reverse it and add a few more follow through sprites to show him slamming them into the ground.

- With Sagat's grab that grabs the opponent, then knees the crap out of them, would it be possible to only have it do a single knee attack, but if
you keep pushing the kick button then he will continue to do more knee attacks, but use special meter for each additional knee? This would be very cool, and having additional knees cost special meter would eliminate the ability to spam them.

- Attack idea: Foot stomp. While Sagat is in his parry position with his knee raised in front of his body, you could hit a kick button to end the parry stance early and do a foot stomp by slamming his raised knee down quickly in front of him onto the enemies foot. This would allow you to bait your opponent by making them think you are waiting to parry, but instead you catch them off guard by ending it early with an attack instead. This would allow for some good mix ups, especially if the parry could be canceled into from a basic attack, then ended early with the foot stomp. Keep them guessing so much they'd be scared to attack.

- Attack idea:  May be hard to sprite, but the massive knee that Ong Bak used on the running man in the Ong Bak 1 that stops the guy
dead in his tracks would be an awesome attack for Sagat to do after a successful parry/counter. That knee is devastating.
at 56 second mark in video:
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

- Also might be hard, but it would look awesome if you could redraw his hand wraps to be roped wraps instead of the normal
bandage wraps. This might be overboard, but he could then have a power-up hyper where he dips them in glass during the hyper effect, then can beat the enemy down with shattered glass wraps until his special meter runs out doing extra damage, or still do normal damage, but with additional bleed damage and extra chip damage if attacks are blocked e.g. Erron Black MKX.
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

- It's probably just me, but I think the palette select color orders should be reorganized. If they're all there, maybe it could be all his official game palettes first, followed by cosplays, followed by random color schemes. As it is now, they all seem to be in random order. Totally not a big deal, but it would be a nice additional touch.

Just my two cents. I do love what you've done to him so far, and have been a fan of this project since you started it a ways back. He plays very well, but as anything in life, there's always some room for improvement. No matter what you do, keep up the good work, and keep on keeping on.

Last thing, I made a new Sagat portrait a while ago that you are more than welcome to use it if you'd like.

Example has black bg, actual portrait has pink transparent bg.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/c3zc2q3kc0rsw85/Sagat_portrait.rar


-uhm, there's already a running lk hit, i prefer this way.
-about fb effects, it was really my purpose to make them as they are to be very different from everything already seen before. ;)
-i think the close stance resemble enough the one you posted.. no?
-afterimages are opinionable, for now i like them in this way, but i'll keep in mind your suggestion.
-about stand lk, if you look closely, the first hit is with his knee, just like the original old one.
-about the counter, there is the low version that do exactly what you mean, did you miss it?? :)
-about the knee throw, it surely would be cool, but i think it's too hard to code for me.. :(
-foot stomp. sorry but i didn't understood what you mean, do you have a drawing or something to try to understand?
-onk bak high kick. in the past i've tried to do something like that (cobra sword from bruce irvin), but i didn't like the result cause there were too much sprite to create from scratch.. :( :(
-hand wraps. again, very cool idea, but hard to sprite/find time/will to do.. :(
-palette color reorganization. good point. i've always wanted to do this, but i dint' find the free time/will to..i'm very lazy.. in the future i hope to be able to order them.. ;)

many thanks for your feedbacks, really appreciated.

I love also your portrait, maybe i'll use it for some super background. ;) ;)


I have not tested him yet but from the videos he looks cool with them combos BUT make sure you nerf his projectiles if you keep them in like DW's sagat he's gonna be mental and absurd to play against.

As for sagat doing spin kicks and whatnot I could give two shits about it, as long as its not as absurd as Ryu doing flash kicks im all for it.  Interesting take on Sagat, I like it, he just needs testing and ironing out.

thanks, and yes, i've reduced a lot his proj, i was nearly plan to remove them completely, but then i've decided to keep them. ;)

test him and let me know. ;) ;)





Re: M206's Supreme Project Thread of Supremacy
#36  January 05, 2018, 11:50:42 am
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hello, in the meanwhile i've fixed some Sagat bug, slighty redrawed superman punch, added the recovery from high kick combo ala bruce irvin, and added some new level.3 super portraits.





i love the result. ;)

what do you think??
Re: M206's Supreme Project Thread of Supremacy
#37  January 06, 2018, 03:36:38 am
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Now that is what I wanted to see in this Sagat. If I wanted Sagat to take just 2 things from Bruce it would be the Leg Bazooka and the Pasart Stance combination. Awesome stuff. I don't like how rough and choppy the level 3 portraits look, unless its just placeholder and a work in progress.
Re: M206's Supreme Project Thread of Supremacy
#38  January 07, 2018, 07:40:48 am
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This Zangief looks interesting, that color separation  ;D.
Re: M206's Supreme Project Thread of Supremacy
#39  January 09, 2018, 11:39:19 am
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Now that is what I wanted to see in this Sagat. If I wanted Sagat to take just 2 things from Bruce it would be the Leg Bazooka and the Pasart Stance combination. Awesome stuff. I don't like how rough and choppy the level 3 portraits look, unless its just placeholder and a work in progress.

thanks. about the lev.3 portraits, i agree with you, they're not definitive, but i'm not able to change them in the right way.. :( :(

This Zangief looks interesting, that color separation  ;D.

thanks.

in the meanwhile, some new sagat punches/combo, boxing inspired, and pasart stance slightly improved

:



Re: M206's Supreme Project Thread of Supremacy
#40  January 09, 2018, 11:51:18 am
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that's pretty nice work