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Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed) (Read 50757 times)

Started by Gate, June 16, 2011, 04:33:46 pm
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Mgbenz

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#101  December 19, 2012, 11:24:30 pm
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When was it that Beast became the most hated X-men? I've seen nothing but praise over his upcoming death.

Jmorphman

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#102  December 19, 2012, 11:26:53 pm
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You know, it just occurred to me (and by that I mean I saw someone say this somewhere else) that this "enemy becomes better Spider-Man than Spider-Man" story already happened. 20 years ago.

And there's no way this is gonna be better than Kraven's Last Hunt.

Mgbenz said, December 19, 2012, 11:24:30 pm
When was it that Beast became the most hated X-men? I've seen nothing but praise over his upcoming death.
whaaaaaaaaaaaa? I've been out of the loop on Marvel stuff for a while (besides Spidey)

Basara Dandy

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#103  December 19, 2012, 11:30:01 pm
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Iced

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#104  December 19, 2012, 11:31:23 pm
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Beast is devolving again, and he is afraid that he is going to lose his mind and/or die.
Its part of the subplot of why he has traveled back in time to get the five first x-men, his sickness is making him delusional.

Also, potto is such an autistic little douche that almost every page he has been in so far since tricking peter has been hilarious.
This is just a long arc, and you all should really read the book instead of just reading on and off pages and raging at things.

following pages are an example from daredevil last pages this month:
http://i.imgur.com/91MKj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MjVEM.jpg


Also , Kaine book is pretty solid, he has been a great character. Flash as venom, also very solid, the symbiote seems to like him.

Jmorphman

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#105  December 19, 2012, 11:33:30 pm
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Basara the Mayan said, December 19, 2012, 11:30:01 pm
That sounds to me like Kaine as the new Scarlet Spider, or the new Venom o_o
I meant more like "enemy defeats Spidey and takes over his identity", rather than "darker and edgier Spidey".

Iced said, December 19, 2012, 11:31:23 pm
This is just a long arc, and you all should really read the book instead of just reading on and off pages and raging at things.
never

Iced said, December 19, 2012, 11:31:23 pm
the symbiote seems to like him.
Is the symbiote just over the whole cannibalism phase that Gargan had to go through?

Iced

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#106  December 19, 2012, 11:39:53 pm
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Lumpy Space Jmorphman said, December 19, 2012, 11:33:30 pm
I meant more like "enemy defeats Spidey and takes over his identity", rather than "darker and edgier Spidey".

Hes not darker and edgier. Otto hasnt changed a bit. he is an arrogant prick with a inferiority complex

Quote
never
Your funeral.


Quote
Is the symbiote just over the whole cannibalism phase that Gargan had to go through?
They have it over sedated, it says that it hated gargan. Flash should have been with the suit for lesser time than he has been, and the suit should have tried to regain control far more often than it has done, it didnt, because it seems to like Flash and wants to protect him.


The suit has no concept of what a recovering alcoholic is , tho.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/2087079-venom_11_cover.jpeg
It keeps giving Flash booze whenever he craves it.

Jmorphman

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#107  December 19, 2012, 11:45:37 pm
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Iced

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#108  December 19, 2012, 11:48:09 pm
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You are getting infuriated by things you dont even read but only hear slightly about, i dont think your plan is working!!

Basara Dandy

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#109  December 19, 2012, 11:51:42 pm
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Well, it worked for me about Superior Spider-Man, and I was right sadly >_< I want to read about Scarlet Spider and Venom, even those 2 have a crossover out there, right??

And about Ock and trying to kill Spidey... how many of you read the Clone Saga remake in 2000s (the 6-issue miniseries that rewrite this 90s saga and changes the final)??

Jmorphman

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#110  December 19, 2012, 11:53:57 pm
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Iced said, December 19, 2012, 11:48:09 pm
You are getting infuriated by things you dont even read but only hear slightly about, i dont think your plan is working!!
I would get more infuriated if I actually read it. So yeah, I'm good.

Snakebyte

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#111  December 20, 2012, 12:02:01 am
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Mgbenz said, December 19, 2012, 03:00:34 pm
Snakebyte must probably only be hanging out at CBR where they pretty much like anything Marvel throws at them.

No, actually I hang out on irc/dc++ with scanners, and pretty much everyone I talked to agreed that was the best comicbook event in a very long time and the ending was phenomenal, and my other friends that read comics loved it also.
neocide said, December 19, 2012, 09:10:07 pm
BMB is doing a excellent job with All New X-men tbh. A lot of people were skeptical of his writing but he has done a wonderful job thus far. His magneto is excellent. His Cyclops is great. The team at the Jean grey school is great as well.  And the 05 ( minus iceman and angel) have been wonderful.

I can't wait for the next few issues. I feel bad for teen Cyke. Everyone seems to hate him for what his adult self did :/

I can't get onboard Superior spiderman at all. I don't care. the premise to me is stupid.

Only read the first ANXM but it seemed great. Bendis is the man, when he's really writing and not just doing 'hi this is filler i am overworked' arcs.

Iced said, December 19, 2012, 05:03:39 pm
I thought of all those directions as coming from above him. his work on she hulk was phenomenal. I keep what I said! I think Slott is good.

Now, someone i would like to see with free reign would be Peter David. Anything he does turns out into comic book gold.

In AVx the only things I really liked were the gillen books, but that happened in such a way that if you had excised the whole event and just had let gillen books tell the story alone I would have thougth the event had gone alright.
With the added "OH NO PHOENIX IS EVIL" hubris, it all seemed very stupid.
Shit, give gillen spiderman, give peter david x-men, they would make solid gold. The last time peter david and warren ellis had control of a universe, it turned out great (until the fallout, but lets not speak of that ), so seeing another stint like that would be pretty great.

Slott is the sole Spider-writer and you think there's editorial influence? Yeah it doesn't work that way. His She-Hulk was not great.

What 'Phoenix is evil' hubris? Phoenix isn't evil. If that's what you took away from the book you didn't read it right at all.

Lumpy Space Jmorphman said, December 19, 2012, 11:53:57 pm
Iced said, December 19, 2012, 11:48:09 pm
You are getting infuriated by things you dont even read but only hear slightly about, i dont think your plan is working!!
I would get more infuriated if I actually read it. So yeah, I'm good.

You don't know until you try! :D

Jmorphman

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#112  December 20, 2012, 12:04:14 am
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DKDC

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#113  December 20, 2012, 12:14:57 am
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Snakebyte said, December 20, 2012, 12:02:01 am
What 'Phoenix is evil' hubris? Phoenix isn't evil. If that's what you took away from the book you didn't read it right at all.
The first thing that AvX established about the Phoenix force is that it was a parasitic soul-eater of mass destruction that was going to roast the Earth no matter what sooner or later, no questions asked, regardless of previous storylines. That's why the battle happened at all, and some fans are defending Cyclops' action in it because they reject that premise. If you accept the premise, then Cyclops was officially the bad guy from the beginning, at least as far as what the writers wanted to do.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Neocide

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#114  December 20, 2012, 12:18:00 am
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Mgbenz said, December 19, 2012, 11:24:30 pm
When was it that Beast became the most hated X-men? I've seen nothing but praise over his upcoming death.

All his bitching and moaning got on people's nerves. I like the 05 beast (the original beast they brought back) though he's become assertive and not whiny at all he's becoming one of my favorites quickly.

The writers ret conned the phoenix into something it wasn't and failed. Fans became enraged and even if the phoenix 5 were meant to be bad guys there was never any evidence to prove they were until the avengers starting poking them with a stick.

Iced

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#115  December 20, 2012, 12:20:25 am
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Snakebyte said, December 20, 2012, 12:02:01 am
What 'Phoenix is evil' hubris? Phoenix isn't evil. If that's what you took away from the book you didn't read it right at all.

safe to say i disagree about she hulk, but opinions are that, opinions, so I will go into this one instead.

Everyone on that event acted as if the phoenix was evil, wolverine, cap, ironman, they all assumed that the phoenix was going to do bad things,  after cyclops and the others were possessed , they kept bullying them even though they themselves had created the situation by SHOOTING the damn thing.
And all during that everyone pretended that the past hosts all had gone crazy cuckoo in the head. It was extremely shit, they ignored all of the x-men past with the phoenix going as far as being inside Jean as she faced Onslaught.
Suddenly the Phoenix was all powerful as well, changing reality around like if it was nothing.
They needed to make cyclops and the others wrong, and had to push it instead of letting the status quo change for a while and have them being unstable develop later. Gillen was the savior of that whole thing, his tie in for the even finale literally saved the event from being shit into being okay.

The event was so ridiculous that they had grimm and luke cage both beat the shit of Namor underwater.
I liked the tie in comic that implied that it had been squirrel girl and pixie playing with the puppeter toys during the whole thing, tho.

DKDC

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#116  December 20, 2012, 12:22:13 am
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neocide said, December 20, 2012, 12:18:00 am
there was never any evidence to prove they were until the avengers starting poking them with a stick.
You keep saying that. You keep disregarding that the Avengers told the X-Men what was going to happen, and the X-Men repeatedly spit in their face essentially saying they only cared about saving mutantkind, not giving a shit that the phoenix might possibly destroy the planet.
Cyclops is a bad guy in AvX. It's just the storyline, it was written like that, that's all. That kind of shit has happened before. Get over it.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 12:25:53 am by DKDC

Neocide

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#117  December 20, 2012, 12:31:41 am
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It wasn't what was "going to happen" it's what they thought was going to happen. everything was going fine with the phoenix force it was going to hope and it was bringing back mutants. Tony stark shot it with a giant uncertain gun and shattered it into 5 pieces.

the 5 that got it then began to make the world better by fixing a lot of problems. Only until the avengers and the us president decided it was too much power for them. So they began attacking them. They made cyclops into the villain. There was never a clear cut villain until the final 2 issues of the whole crossover. The whole thing was out of character for everyone anyway. And they even went to the god damn moon to get the phoenix instead of having it on earth.

And I am completely over it. If it weren't for this event then cyclops wouldn't be as popular as he is as the whole thing blew up in marvels faces when people realized cyclops was right all along.

Also stop being so confrontational over this. You seem to try to attack me more than just respond to what I was saying.

Snakebyte

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#118  December 20, 2012, 12:33:55 am
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Slott's She-Hulk is overrated and unbelievable. Cheap gimmicks instead of good writing, the same objections I have to his Spidey work. I preferred both Byrne's and PAD's She-Hulk runs.

That said I was a huge fan of Avengers: The Initiative, but I'll give Gage the credit there.

DKDC said:
The first thing that AvX established about the Phoenix force is that it was a parasitic soul-eater of mass destruction that was going to roast the Earth no matter what sooner or later, no questions asked, regardless of previous storylines.

No, it established that's what the Avengers thought it was. Cyclops didn't. Hence the entire storyline.

Iced said:
Everyone on that event acted as if the phoenix was evil, wolverine, cap, ironman, they all assumed that the phoenix was going to do bad things,  after cyclops and the others were possessed , they kept bullying them even though they themselves had created the situation by SHOOTING the damn thing.

Exactly! Why are you complaining about this? That's excellent writing!

The Avengers thought the Phoenix was evil, despite there being no evidence of this. Phoenix isn't evil and was never evil. It came back to earth because it had a connection to mutants from the Earth hosts it had inhabited over the years, and Wanda removed them all. Cyclops knew this, he just went too far to accomplish this goal, and went insane in a wonderfully different and appropriate way from any of the previous hosts. He lost track of what he was fighting for, but he did win.

When you say 'they', you are talking about characters in the story, not the writers. Of course Tony Stark is going to fight against cosmic forces swooping in and fixing everything. Of course people close to Jean are going to resist it after seeing what it did to her.

The moral ambiguity of 'would the phoenix five really have saved the world if they had been left alone to do it' is what drove a good chunk of the story. Because maybe they would have, and maybe, by pissing them off and concentrating the amount of the phoenix force in the remaining ones, the avengers ruined utopia. Maybe Tony Stark really and truly fucked it up by taking some kid's word for what the Phoenix was.

Or maybe it always would have resulted in Colossus making whales with legs and forgetting that they don't do so well outside of water.

EDIT TO DKDC/NEOCIDE: Cyclops was always going to be a villain. It was a long time coming. Read Gillen's UXM run, Schism, etc.

Neocide

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#119  December 20, 2012, 12:36:00 am
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It initially came to fix wanda's fuck up with the "no more mutants" That was the whole reason it was coming.

Also logan escalated things because of his whole grudge with cyclops he came off as the bitter ex girlfriend

DKDC

Re: Marvel Universe discussion (no filthy muties allowed)
#120  December 20, 2012, 12:38:42 am
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neocide said, December 20, 2012, 12:31:41 am
It wasn't what was "going to happen" it's what they thought was going to happen.
No, it's what the writers declared WOULD happen. Did you miss Nova blazing through half the universe to warn them that the Phoenix was going to destroy them ? It was actually written like that.
"The Phoenix will revive mutanthood !
-But the Phoenix will destroy all life on Earth !
-Screw you !"
This is the only thing Cyclops ever said, and that makes him the new Magneto, because he was written like that. Nothing ever contradicted Nova's announcement. It was canonically true, because it was written like that. You keep saying it wouldn't have happened, but the writers wanted it to be the canonical truth, so yes, it was going to happen. Ergo, Stark & co were right, and Cyclops was wrong. Because it was written like that. Cyclops was written so that he would be the new Magneto. He was written to be the bad guy.

Quote
You seem to try to attack me more than just respond to what I was saying.
You keep bringing the same shit up over and again everyone anyone mentions it.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
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