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mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee. (Read 10729 times)

Started by mh777, July 18, 2013, 10:04:12 pm
mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#1  July 18, 2013, 10:04:12 pm
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So I've been meaning to actually make at least one complete, finished character for the longest while now.  (The KFM with Tag Code on my site doesn't count, since that was basically a copy-paste code test kind of thing.)  I'm posting this here in the hopes that it'll actually motivate me to get off my butt. :p



A long time ago, in a galaxy far away (re: MUGEN Dev), I posted a WIP of NES Billy Lee.  I had some decent progress in terms of required sprites and a very basic foundation of how I wanted him to play.  However, I lost it in a literal hard drive crash (re: I'm a clumsy ass who dropped the external hard drive that contained all of my MUGEN work up to that point on a very hard tile floor. Good times.) and then pretty much lost my motivation after that. 

Anyhoo, after some time, I decided to rip anew, but I wanted to make this more than just an exact conversion from the first NES game;  I wanted this Billy to be a "best of" version containing pretty much every move in their arsenal from all the official games.  I color-separated the sprites in the name of being able to recreate different palettes from all the Double Dragon games (and then some).  The only thing stopping progress is the fact that I'm terrible at frankenspriting and sprite editing in general, even for relatively simple sprites like these.  I should also mention that he'll be double-sized by default (the pic up there is him in his native resolution).

As far as gameplay goes, I think that limiting the character to two attack buttons (one each for punch and kick) keeps the old-school flavor of the character while forcing me to be a bit inventive as to how I want to approach his moves. Here's the move list I have in mind so far (moves denoted with * need sprite edits/frankensprites):

Punch Combo: A,A,A - three punch combo ending in an uppercut
Kick Combo: B - can end with another B kick, end with A uppercut; puts opponent into hitpause long enough to:
--Clinch: In clinch - A for knockdown punch, B for knee series, Back+A+B for Shoulder Throw, or Forward+A+B for Headbutt
*Hurricane Kick: QCB+B - not much horizontal movement, but ridiculous priority to make up for lack of distance. Think of Ryu's Tatsumaki super.  If missed, Billy "hangs" in the air long enough to be punished.
Run - F,F - can lead to Running Haymaker Punch (A), Running Knee (B), or *Running Sobat Kick (A+B). Running Sobat is essentially the simultaneous press Forward Attack+Jump move from the second arcade game.  All attacks knock down.
*Offensive Step - F,D,DF - Totally not stolen from Kazuya Mishima's Mist Step.  Designed to close the gap between fighters and also duck under the appropriate projectiles. Leads to Rising Uppercut (A), *Rising Knee (B), or *Overhead Neck Flip (A+B).
Down/Pursuit Attacks: Knee Drop (Up+B) or *Mount Punch (DF+A) when close to downed opponent.

Any suggestions/ideas/encouragement/help is always welcome, of course.  Now let's see if I actually do get it done this time around...
Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 09:27:10 pm by mh777
Re: mh777's Character Development.
#2  July 23, 2013, 11:29:17 pm
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hahaha this looks kickass. will give more thoughts later
Re: mh777's Character Development.
#3  July 26, 2013, 09:29:26 pm
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I'd love to see this character made. I'd also be happy to assist with sprites as well. I might not be as good as some of the other guys on here in that department, but I'm pretty sure I can make some simple edits here and there that could help.

Honestly, I had considered making a Double Dragon character of my own some time ago. But I'd REALLY like to see what you'll accomplish with this. Especially since you seem to have a decent moveset fleshed out already.

Which Double Dragon spriteset are you going for? First, second, or third?
Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 09:33:15 pm by OrochiWeapon2000
Re: mh777's Character Development.
#4  July 26, 2013, 09:45:30 pm
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Thanks, guys. :)  I've been busy trying to get things situated in real life right now (my Fall class schedule and real-life art commitments, primarily) but I'm definitely going to make some time for this particular project during my downtime. :)

Speaking of sprites, I meant to post some of my frankenspriting/custom efforts earlier.  These are obviously still in progress.



Intended for Running Sobat Kick move.  This was done from memory without consulting the DD2 Arcade version... I should go back and capture reference frames.



I neglected to mention crouch attacks in my first post! Here's an obvious frankensprite attempt at a crouching jab.  Not totally happy with it... it could definitely use some lower body movement, in my opinion.

@OW2K:  I'm sticking with the first NES game's VS mode sprite style. Right now, I think that the Hurricane Kick might be the toughest spriting job.  I'm looking to adapt the NES DD3 version into the first game's style.  I'll give it the ol' college try, but I'll definitely let you (and anyone else who might be interested) know if/when I need extra help. :)
Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 09:51:25 pm by mh777
Re: mh777's Character Development.
#5  July 26, 2013, 11:52:36 pm
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Sounds interesting. While you're doing your own thing, I'll see what I can do to help you out on the side. If/when I complete anything related to this, you'll be the first to know. :)

For a minute there, I thought you were gonna go with the smaller sprites from Mode A. Either way, I'll give it a shot and see where it goes from there. I wish you the best of luck on this project. Your stages are great, so I can hardly wait to see what you can do with a character! :D
Re: mh777's Character Development.
#6  July 29, 2013, 10:46:29 pm
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While looking up sprite references, it has come to my attention that the PC-Engine CD version of Double Dragon II has a sprite viewer hidden in it.  What does that mean? Since the sprites in PCE CD version are relatively closer in proportion to the NES vs mode sprites, it means I have one of the best possible references for sprite edits/sprite translations.  It also means I have easy access to the Shadow-exclusive sprites (like that awesome cool stance coming out of the shadow meld move), which might just motivate me enough to put in a Shadow mode.





     Posted: July 31, 2013, 09:34:14 pm


Whipped this up rather quickly.  Arm/leg closest to viewer mostly frankensprited with minor edits.  Still not happy with the pectoral area.  Additional feedback/nitpicking is welcome. :)
Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 09:34:14 pm by mh777
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#7  August 04, 2013, 10:12:27 pm
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My initial attempt at spriting the Double Dragon Advance default stance in NES style. Gonna clean up and fix it later... also intend to sprite a couple more frames in the name of having an actual animated stance.

EDIT: slightly updated sprite. Still more I'd love to fix, but feedback is always welcome, of course. :)
Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 04:39:06 am by mh777
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#8  August 05, 2013, 09:51:37 pm
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Legs look a bit chubby.

Do you have a sheet of original frames, to try to figure out the style?
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#9  August 05, 2013, 10:24:58 pm
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Hmm, yeah, the legs were about two pixels less wide when I first started on the stance; I thought they were too skinny as they were.  I think it's translating the proportions from the other styles into this style that's throwing me off slightly.  I'll slim them down again and see how that looks. :)

I'm using this particular sheet for some of my references, which also has pretty much all of the attacks I need, save for the Mount Punch and Neck Flip.  I have the resources to rip those myself, so it won't be that much of a problem.
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#10  August 05, 2013, 10:37:39 pm
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It looks like an interesting project, I always like these oldschool ones, when done properly, and it looks like this has that potential.
I'll be lurking here!
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#11  August 07, 2013, 04:45:03 am
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Thanks, Balth. :) I'm actually hoping more spriters drop by, mainly because I'd love to hear their input as far as spriting goes.  With the amount of custom spriting I'm going to be doing for this project, that kind of input could and would help me a lot.  :) 

edit: actually, I should probably put together a sprite sheet of all the original NES sprites that I ripped just so everyone can see what I'm working with... I'll try to find some time for that soon-ish!


Made some changes: slimmed the legs a bit, minor adjustments for both arms, and fixed up the vest a bit.  However, now that I'm looking at it again a few hours after making the initial changes, Billy's left arm (viewer's right) is bothering me...  :-\
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#12  August 07, 2013, 10:00:24 am
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Don't worry, I'm down with giving advices where needed, even able to jump in and do some fixing or sprites of my own when needed.
That left arm looks fine to me, the whole sprite 'felt' right to me when first looking at it, nothing stands out (in a bad way).
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#13  August 21, 2013, 10:46:10 pm
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Here's my default (as in no sprite edits aside from the Double Dragon Advance small port) color-separated sheet.  There will definitely be more gethits to be sprited (mainly crouching gethits since none exist at all) as well as MUGEN's usual requireds.  I'm not too enamored with the default falling sprite, so I'll be spriting new ones based on the Double Dragon Advance falling sprites.  I'll post those as soon as I get done with them, whenever that may be.

     Posted: August 26, 2013, 07:18:01 am
After playing around in Double Dragon Neon for a bit, I think it'd be a good idea to borrow a few things from there, specifically the crouching sweep kick and and the running slide kick.  Is there anyone who can kindly get me screencaps of either move, or both if possible? Please let me know if you can!
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#14  January 05, 2014, 09:42:46 pm
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Ever-so-slight revival to let you know I haven't forgotten about this:



Adapting Double Dragon Advance's two jump kicks to NES Billy! Here's the Bruce Lee kick in (very early) progress.  It'll function much like in the original games as a knockdown move.  The other kick, a divekick, will stun the opponent long enough for follow ups.

Work on this thing hasn't progressed as much as I would have wanted because school is obvs a bigger priority than the MOOGENs.  I'm on break from classes until the 21st, so hopefully I can get more done before then.

*edit* Almost forgot to mention that I'm thinking about color separating the sprites even more.  Thinking about separating the pants and the hands, mainly.  Something basic like that but still opens up even more possibilities for extra palettes.
Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 09:50:19 pm by mh777
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#15  January 05, 2014, 11:55:27 pm
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Hey, good to see you back in action :) Don't go too crazy with the palette seperation if it slows down the overall progress too much!
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#16  January 09, 2014, 03:55:40 am
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More progress on the Bruce Lee jump kick. Still not where I want it to be, but it's getting there. Translating from Advance to NES proportions is definitely throwing me off... probably should have paid better attention in my drawing/illustration classes all those years ago.  Regular jump kick is on there for proportion study purposes... I'll probably end up making some edits on it to use it as the diving kick.
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#17  June 03, 2014, 10:29:50 pm
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RESURRECTION~!




So my semester's been over for a couple of weeks now, and I'm just now trying to get back into making progress on this thing, in between doing real-life things.  So here's Super Double Dragon's block adapted into DD1 NES style.  I wouldn't call it finished, 'cause nothing's ever quite finished. :)

More sprites to eventually follow! (I promise!)
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#18  June 03, 2014, 11:59:59 pm
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Nice, good to see you back!
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#19  June 04, 2014, 10:01:59 pm
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    • mugenorama.smeenet.org/index.html


Testing out an idea for a stance.  Terribly lazy, I know.  :P  Based on the idea that the Lee brothers never really had much movement in their stances, AND it kind of goes along with the Bruce Lee water quote, making for another Double Dragon/Bruce Lee connection! (Kind of.)  (Okay, I just may be reaching there.)  I'll sketch out a more active stance later and see how that goes...

Speaking of the stance, I just realized I may have to go with new walk anims.  At this point, I'm looking at Double Dragon Neon for inspiration on that point.

As for further palette separation, I think it might be a good idea, just for glove/wrist tape palettes a la Double Dragon Neon.  It wouldn't be that much work anyways, and at the pace I'm going with these sprites, it wouldn't affect the workrate that much, haha.

SPECIAL MEGA UPDATE (not really)

Whipped up a more animated version of the stance. Feedback, if anyone is so inclined? :)

Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 09:31:03 pm by mh777
Re: mh777's Character Development - Current: NES Billy Lee.
#20  June 11, 2014, 12:12:15 pm
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I liked the other avatar more. :(

I edited it: