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Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made) (Read 3087 times)

Started by Koldskool, September 03, 2007, 11:39:21 pm
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Koldskool

Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#1  September 03, 2007, 11:39:21 pm
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While I'm almost certain that no one knows it, I have been a member of this forum for over three years.  But, I've mainly been on the sidelines, watching the community collapse on top of itself, and now it seems to be slowly building itself back up.  I first discovered the engine in April of 2001, and being a long time fan of 2-D fighters, I was overjoyed.  At last, I could see Ryu fight Lui Kang, or Mario fight MegaMan.  So, I started snatching up every character I could.  At the time, warehouses were abundant and not afraid to host the creations of others.  But, many creators were disgusted by this and made their opinions well known. This lead to the anti-warehousing movement.  Many characters became nearly impossible to find.  Shortly thereafter, some forums added a "requests" section.  But, many people abused this feature.  Then, even making requests became forbidden.  Many people who only wanted to enjoy Mugen as a game were labeled as "leechers" and were often insulted for asking for characters.  After seeing this, I was too intimidated to post anything in any of the forums.  I just quietly watched and waited.  I ended up waiting for three years.  Although I actually did release something a while back (a set of palettes for Chloe's Lynn Baker) I still consider myself a leecher because I mainly intend to just enjoy the game.  Granted, many leechers are deserving of the title, since they would rather post a request than actually try to find the content that they want.  But, some, like myself, are people that search like crazy (for years in one case in particular) for what they want because they are afraid of being verbally castrated for asking someone else for it.  If someone is new to the community, and they want something that is no longer available for some reason, do they really deserve to be insulted?  The resent change here at the Guild is only the first step toward rebuilding the community, it's the people that have to make the change work.  I truly hope that Mugen becomes a community once again, but it isn't going to be a walk in the park.

This is just my opinion, but I hope that some of the other members agree with me.

Phoenix701

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#2  September 03, 2007, 11:46:45 pm
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I think that if a creator doesnt want people to have his stuff, then people should have at least respect that request. Other than that, theres nothing wrong with people requesting a character. It's people that request every verson of Ken or that want all chars that really get on my nerves.

Koldskool

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#3  September 03, 2007, 11:56:34 pm
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That is completely understandable, but, if the character has already been released, it shouldn't be an issue.  If a character is "private" then by definition, no one should even know about it.

I didn't mention this in the original post, but I want everyone here to know that I DO NOT support creation stealing (modifying another creator's contribution and then releasing it as your own).  However, I FULLY support open source.  Many people learn how to create Mugen content by modifying the creations of others, myself included.  I just don't release it.

Valodim

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#4  September 03, 2007, 11:57:41 pm
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dude. line breaks and punctuation are your and other people's eyes' friends.

Koldskool

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#5  September 03, 2007, 11:59:37 pm
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Valodim

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#6  September 04, 2007, 12:03:26 am
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yeah but rambling is hard enough to read on its own (there's been quite a bit of that around here lately :P), like that it's almost unbearable.

...your sig is oversized, btw.

tetsuo9999

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#7  September 04, 2007, 12:05:43 am
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Before the new rules.
Leechers came here requesting for characters w/o creator status, outside of the request section.
They got flamed for not reading the rules.
WOO! WOO! WOO!
PSN / XBLA - ViewtifulSuxx

Valodim

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#8  September 04, 2007, 12:06:20 am
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...your point being?

tetsuo9999

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#9  September 04, 2007, 12:10:34 am
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Koldskool

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#10  September 04, 2007, 12:12:22 am
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Shin'ichi Kudo said, September 04, 2007, 12:05:43 am
Before the new rules.
Leechers came here requesting for characters w/o creator status, outside of the request section.
They got flamed for not reading the rules.
They fall under the "deserving of the title" catagory.

DKDC

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#11  September 04, 2007, 12:28:40 am
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Very simple - force of habit.
I've been in the community for 7 years and I have seen a bunch of what triggered all of this - and I do remember what led to what, unlike some high-ranking members of this forum who thought that doing the same thing as 5 years ago was going to lead anywhere else than the disaster it already created before.

One guy came and said something wrong, people were nice. Ten guys came and said the same thing wrong, people started being a little more straightforward. Ten times that amount of guys said the exact same thing, and people got bored of answering the same thing over and again. Now, even one person comes in with that same wrong thing, he gets bashed immediately. Force of habit, while it's not good, it's perfectly natural that those things would happen after 7 years of that.

There are, however, those who just came out of nowhere and joined in the bashing when it really wasn't their place. Those ones are doing it without any reasonable excuse, and the same higher-ranking members I mentionned put all of them in the same bag, in the same "gang".
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.

Just No Point

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#12  September 04, 2007, 01:31:00 am
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When did this happen 5 years ago? Er where?

Loona

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#13  September 04, 2007, 01:38:33 am
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Just No Point said, September 04, 2007, 01:31:00 am
When did this happen 5 years ago? Er where?

If memory serves me right back then there was still an ezboard Dev... Chaotic as it may have been there were alternatives with no-request restrictions for those who wanted a more quiet hangout.

Koldskool

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#14  September 04, 2007, 01:42:01 am
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Baiken, you make a good point.  "Force of habit" is the main reason I've been a silent presence here at the guild.

I've now made more posts in this topic than I have in the entire forum since September of '03 when I joined.  :sugoi:

Messatsu

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#15  September 04, 2007, 01:55:51 am
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Honkey said, September 03, 2007, 11:56:34 pm
I didn't mention this in the original post, but I want everyone here to know that I DO NOT support creation stealing (modifying another creator's contribution and then releasing it as your own).  However, I FULLY support open source.  Many people learn how to create Mugen content by modifying the creations of others, myself included.  I just don't release it.
That form of "open source" was ready for you to use since Elecbyte's first engine up to today.  Now you're "allowed" to release stuff you've only modified.

Bastard Wolf said, May 12, 2008, 05:02:05 pm

Many people risk their lives everyday by having Mugen.

Valodim

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#16  September 04, 2007, 02:00:59 am
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"it's a habit I can't help it"? I wouldn't call that a good point. it's somewhere between "stubborn" and "childish", but nowhere near "good".

Just No Point

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#17  September 04, 2007, 02:03:54 am
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Loona said, September 04, 2007, 01:38:33 am
Just No Point said, September 04, 2007, 01:31:00 am
When did this happen 5 years ago? Er where?

If memory serves me right back then there was still an ezboard Dev... Chaotic as it may have been there were alternatives with no-request restrictions for those who wanted a more quiet hangout.

Ah, I barely went there. Mostly just went to Guild, for... my whole mugen life?  I started going to Dev after the banning sprees calmed down. But by then Dev was dead =(

DemonicDrPhil

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#18  September 04, 2007, 02:06:58 am
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people here still treat creations and creator's like crap for not getting expressed written permission to modify a character.  Force of habit may be a shitty excuse but for now it is viable in a sense.  You can't change the minds of people as easily as a forum layout.  I just hope that those who truly put something into their modifications and don't just do a sprite swap will soon get the recognition they deserve in this now open community.
Latest Yoshi alpha ready for feedback Aug 15th check here for details...

Mature4evr

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#19  September 04, 2007, 02:12:41 am
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It's useless to dwell in the past, but sometimes I wonder how my general outlook would've developed, had I joined the Mugen community in the TestP days.  Unfortunately, that's a dream, which will remain perpetually out of reach.

Anyhow...

Although I still harbor mixed emotions towards certain policies, I've given up on fighting.  As I once said on the Mugen History forum, when it comes to a hobby, there's simply no room for argument.  Civility is great, so the change to this board is nothing short of refreshing.

Valodim

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#20  September 04, 2007, 02:20:55 am
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DemonicDrPhil

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#21  September 04, 2007, 02:24:44 am
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yes like the whole DBZ thing that was released earlier today...but in a way it goes against the supposed new attitude of the forum.  Like I said before hopefully those who tried to make a good modification and could only post credit for whatever reason instead of getting permission will soon be treated with more respect.
Latest Yoshi alpha ready for feedback Aug 15th check here for details...

DKDC

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#22  September 04, 2007, 08:56:40 am
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Valodim said, September 04, 2007, 02:00:59 am
"it's a habit I can't help it"? I wouldn't call that a good point. it's somewhere between "stubborn" and "childish", but nowhere near "good".
Pretty obviously you can't read, he's asking for a reason, I give him one. Morally acceptable or not, it is how things are.
Quote
while it's not good, it's perfectly natural that those things would happen after 7 years of that.
It's pretty useless of you to try to make it pass as childish because that's what you think of it when it's not the point.

Heck, not 7, it's been practically 8 years now that I'm in the community, even, since the end of '99
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 09:11:59 am by Baiken

Ohsky

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#23  September 09, 2007, 07:57:01 am
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The best thing one can do is to not make friends in any internet community.

because many times i end up with desires of breaking so many faces unfulfilled.

Cyanide

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#24  September 09, 2007, 10:36:44 am
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I don't remember the testP days being hell on earth. Nor the 2 years after it went down.

Theft happened then and it wasn't really that bad. Very few people at that point made a fuss. However  a small number of people didn't like it, got a following and forced it till it became the right thing to do. It wasn't always like that.

When i started noone really cared about theft. Noone minded code use, my first character had lots of copied code in and noone ever worried about it.

The problem lies in telling people what they can't do. Noone ever listens or reads things. Try to see it from the perspective of someone really stupid and what's happening now makes everything so much easier. You ignore the dipshits, completely and utterly. No attention, no support no nothing. They get pissed off and leave or retreat back to leecherdom.

Don't talk about private stuff, keep it private that way noone can know about or will want it.

I don't agree with everything this forum is doing, well mostly non policing of original sprites, i'd prefer those were 100% out of bounds. But this feels more like a way forward to me than ostracising everyone new unless they join with all the rules down pat and their first creation meets 80 predefined standards.


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Frenchman316

Re: Mugen: A Leecher's Ramblings (My Opinions on Leeching and the changes made)
#25  September 09, 2007, 02:16:59 pm
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Well i probably have no place in this discussion
but i thought id put in my opinion
im only very new to the M.U.G.E.N community i discovered the engine about 3 months ago.I completly agree that sprites shouldn't be taken without the owner saying so drawing sprites takes allot of effort.
i would consider myself a leecher i only have 10 characters in my game and there all by DDR and Warner i dont see the point in collecting if im not even going to use them.
Ive seen how people treat these so called "leechers" and i don't want to be labled as one so ive started creating a Daffy Duck character for it
ive also heard people have hacked others computers for there MUGEN work

Demitri 45%
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