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Mugen characters that didn't age well (Read 37012 times)

Started by jenngra505, October 23, 2017, 10:53:59 pm
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Mugen characters that didn't age well
#1  October 23, 2017, 10:53:59 pm
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As the thread title states, this thread is about Mugen characters that were good for their time but didn't age well. I think Judgespear's Homer Simpson could serve as a good starting example.
Hopefully someday I'll be able to make the little puffball on my profile pic.
(Sprite edited from Scrollboss' sprite)
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#2  October 23, 2017, 11:46:35 pm
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I think Homer wasn't a case of aging badly as it was the fad of Judgespear in general died out a while back.

As for what I can think of....

- Anything in the "arms race" of old. This includes Psycho Shredder (and variations thereof), God Orochi, Oni-Miko, Kuri's Saber and Super Mech Hisui  (I think they were part of it? They play like it) and whatnot.
- RyouWin's MvC2 stuff. It's more of a historical curiosity now, showing what it was like before DC/MvC2 emulation was really viable at all, especially with the sprites.
- A lot of old DBZ characters. They've been made obsolete with advancements in creation, nor were they really made with longevity in mind, with emphasis on power and effects.
- Similarly, a lot of old SFA/MvC edits that tried to use entirely new sprites. This is mostly in part of not transferring the fluidity of the sprites and the gameplay not having said feel either. Team Spoiler (anyone who went to IMT from about 2007-2009 might know of them) were a late example of it, where their stuff felt like it came out 4-6 years earlier than it actually did. Pax's Pax and Blackjack's Cyber Dan are good examples of this too.
- Youkai's Naruto characters, and Super Mario 64. Sort of the same issue as the DBZ edits of old; overpowered, and not exactly well ripped. SM64 however, was a vidmaker's wet dream for a while, and was a more extreme version of the Naruto characters.
- Evil Homer. Sorry Warner, but if it wasn't an Evil Ken spriteswap it might've aged a lot better. The only thing anyone really remembers from this is the intense amounts of controversy when it was new.
- A lot of stuff (non-Touhou) from the NicoNico Uploader. A lot of it really had no context to the non-Japanese, and as a result a lot of it faded into obscurity or became real dated quick.
- A lot of Shin/Orochi/Evil/Angel/God/what have you edits. Same sort of reason as the DBZ edits, including God Ken, even if I like it a lot. There's exceptions, like Reu's edits, or even (debatably Ilcane87's Evil Dan). This usually is more for ones before say, 2006-2007.
- Cattleya. Same thing as Evil Homer but at least Evil Homer's sprites were nice to look at.
- Stuff from the old CvG that Volzzilla ran. They practically had the aesthetics and coding of old SFA edits from the early 2000s. Exceptions exist, though even those had their flaws that held them back.
- That Orochi Gill character. Yes. That's a thing. It was a product of a friend's 2007 mentality of "THIS IS A COOL IDEA LET'S MAKE A CHARACTER OF IT" with no real idea what anyone was doing. I'm credited but all I did was give him my av from MI at the time (which became the port) and a palette. I haven't used the av in years btw, and you're not missing much. Imagine official art of Gill, with the red changed to a pale yellow-orange, the blue darker and the hair pink.
- Spec Ops stuff. As much as I like the stuff, the cobbled together effects from various sources and the high damage values don't let them age too well. I'm sorry Ilu.
- A lot of KFM's characters. Mostly because of how none of them really got finished.
- Kong's works. They really only exist as a showcase of what not to do, and given their obsoleteness upon release they've more or less aged like milk.

I'm sure I'm missing a lot but that's what I can think of. I'm looking to stay within the realm of things that came out in 2008-2010 and earlier, so they've had time to age. Just because it hasn't aged well doesn't mean it's not good.
Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 02:34:08 am by Orochi Gill
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#3  October 24, 2017, 02:01:03 am
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DDR's Hong Kong Phooey. He's just a spriteswap of Sho Nuff.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#4  October 24, 2017, 02:40:54 am
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Hopefully someday I'll be able to make the little puffball on my profile pic.
(Sprite edited from Scrollboss' sprite)
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#5  October 24, 2017, 03:13:28 am
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#6  October 24, 2017, 03:20:20 am
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Hopefully someday I'll be able to make the little puffball on my profile pic.
(Sprite edited from Scrollboss' sprite)
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#7  October 24, 2017, 03:57:00 am
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DDR's Hong Kong Phooey. He's just a spriteswap of Sho Nuff.

Wasn't that released recently?

True. But he's practically poorly done with the sprite errors and the similar moveset.
And don't get me started on the hitboxes.

The point of the thread is that it has to be an old character that was liked when it came out but isn't liked anymore.

In that case, I'm gonna say Kung Fu Man (I bet y'all saw that coming)
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#8  October 24, 2017, 04:16:27 am
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Kung Fu Man has his fans, unfortunately...

NeoKamek's Kamek? KY Shanix's Bowser? Most Mysterious's old characters? Donald McDonald? AIDUZZI's OCs? Maybe even the original Shinryouga Mario, Rare Akuma, and Reu's edgy shotos?
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#9  October 24, 2017, 12:44:21 pm
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Kung Fu Man has his fans, unfortunately...

NeoKamek's Kamek? KY Shanix's Bowser? Most Mysterious's old characters? Donald McDonald? AIDUZZI's OCs? Maybe even the original Shinryouga Mario, Rare Akuma, and Reu's edgy shotos?

Definitely Mario,
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#10  October 24, 2017, 04:46:16 pm
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I agree with all OG said, and I want to add some other things to that list and what has been said before:

- Most of comic book characters that aren't from MVC series. Most of those creations are stiff and unplayable, I know there're exceptions, but in general I try to avoid comic book chars, specially from DC.
- Anything made under IMT's SMVC template. This is at the same level than Kong's chars, if not almost the same thing.
- Thanks for mentioning it RMaster: DDR's chars, maybe Warner made a great job drawing chars for MUGEN from western animations, but DDR is like the bad copy of Warner in that sense, poorly drawed chars with an awful gameplay. And the worst part, the DDR clones aren't any better either (Wlanmaniax/BeanFan/WhatEverHisNickIs and so the others).

These are the ones I can think right now
Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 05:06:18 pm by Basara Travers
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#11  October 24, 2017, 04:53:26 pm
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  • Jigglypuff by Willoughby Jackson: Yeah it was popular at the time, but when you look back at it now, there's just so many problems with it, and the fact that the sprites were literally just ripped from low-res screencaps of the anime is only the tip of the iceberg.
  • Mario/Luigi by ShinRyouga & NeoAnhk: Similar situation as Jigglypuff, except take the idea of using cropped anime screencaps as sprites and replace it with balls-to-the-wall AI that deliberately took advantage of flaws in the character's gameplay which went undiscovered for years. Oh and the fact that there isn't much to differentiate Mario from Luigi aside from a minor stat change. At least the sprites are still presentable.
  • Peter Griffin/Homer Simpson by Warner & Judgespear: These were literally everywhere back in the day, until you realized Homer was basically just Iori with an oversaturated pool of Hyper Combos that didn't really serve any purpose to gameplay and was just there to cater to memes and obscure Simpsons references. Peter was in a similar situation, except it tried to be MvC but couldn't get that right, especially with the Brazilian chains.
  • Any DBZ character by Choujin: Cell was the worst offender here, but they all shared common critical gameplay quirks despite being popular, including easy to pull off Alpha Counters that still did the regular damage of a Level 1 Super AND being able to confirm off of them.
  • Blaziken/Chansey/Registeel by Claymizer: Just because you're the first to make a character doesn't automatically make it the best version, even if its by default, no matter how popular it gets in people's youtube videos. The presentation of these characters surely didn't help their cases either.
  • Haruhi Suzumiya by Choiyer: This character is a bit unique from the rest, not because of gameplay quirks that people didn't really care to understand at the time, but moreso because of questionable design choices by the author that gradually turned her into a fetish character over time.
Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 05:06:31 pm by Ricepigeon
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#12  October 24, 2017, 05:26:10 pm
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Sonic is definitely with the rest of Claymizer's characters too. The 2nd one mainly before Sean's came out. I bet many still try to say it's the best Sonic.

D4 Kirby. The sprites attract, the gameplay turns away...
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#13  October 24, 2017, 06:38:36 pm
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I think DDR isn't that bad since he made fast-paced coded creations and too selfless to any community but, I'm still hoping if he trying to improve his Phooey and Frank Jr. better as their final releases.

All I'm seeing is there are some wannabes who created predictable ideas, especially for copying my stylized things and childish drawings. There was also some characters made by Zobbes though, he is alright now. But to me, I think some his ideas seem very irregular to create his characters like Jon Arbuckle, Odie, etc. I don't think they seem perfect for Mugen however, he made them as KFM-based which is sometimes slow-paced.

I don't want to say I despise about him, it's just because I don't find his ideas very appealing to me.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#14  October 24, 2017, 07:12:57 pm
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I agree with Homer and the other cartoon chars.
I shouldn't have voted Evil Homer for mugen in the first place.

I remember how Sean Altly made the chars poorly, but he finally got better at the sprites.

Tetsuo9999 were the chars that i enjoy, now it's history and
back then, most of his chars get voice from other chars like Neku's voice as Yang. Now a days, we can find most of them the voice for each char.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#15  October 24, 2017, 07:14:39 pm
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Dshiznetz's Pokémon characters, though I'll specifically detail Blaziken since that's the one I'm most familiar with; I imagine it's the sprites that primarily draws people to them, and I know these characters were pretty popular back when they were first released, likely due to the sub-par Pokémon characters prior to them. So yeah, Blaziken:
-Can Power Charge before the round even starts and can actually cancel into the Power Charge during certain Hypers.
-Chaining is weird:
--Can often chain Normals in a loop, being able to cancel from heavy to light.
--Can link certain heavy Normals into themselves several times.
--Can't cancel crouching Normals into anything outside of other crouching Normals.
-Can do over 50% meterless with minimal effort.
-Wonky hitboxes.
-Helper select could've done with being controlled by the arrow keys and start instead of being bound to specific buttons, as to avoid skipping the intro and/or trying to remember which button selects what.

Actually, I know I said I'd only detail Blaziken, but it's worth noting Gardevoir is able to become completely invulnerable if repeated uses of teleport are timed properly, which is something that A.I. patch exploits to hell and back.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#16  October 24, 2017, 08:40:31 pm
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  • Jigglypuff by Willoughby Jackson: Yeah it was popular at the time, but when you look back at it now, there's just so many problems with it, and the fact that the sprites were literally just ripped from low-res screencaps of the anime is only the tip of the iceberg.
  • Mario/Luigi by ShinRyouga & NeoAnhk: Similar situation as Jigglypuff, except take the idea of using cropped anime screencaps as sprites and replace it with balls-to-the-wall AI that deliberately took advantage of flaws in the character's gameplay which went undiscovered for years. Oh and the fact that there isn't much to differentiate Mario from Luigi aside from a minor stat change. At least the sprites are still presentable.
  • Peter Griffin/Homer Simpson by Warner & Judgespear: These were literally everywhere back in the day, until you realized Homer was basically just Iori with an oversaturated pool of Hyper Combos that didn't really serve any purpose to gameplay and was just there to cater to memes and obscure Simpsons references. Peter was in a similar situation, except it tried to be MvC but couldn't get that right, especially with the Brazilian chains.
  • Any DBZ character by Choujin: Cell was the worst offender here, but they all shared common critical gameplay quirks despite being popular, including easy to pull off Alpha Counters that still did the regular damage of a Level 1 Super AND being able to confirm off of them.
  • Blaziken/Chansey/Registeel by Claymizer: Just because you're the first to make a character doesn't automatically make it the best version, even if its by default, no matter how popular it gets in people's youtube videos. The presentation of these characters surely didn't help their cases either.
  • Haruhi Suzumiya by Choiyer: This character is a bit unique from the rest, not because of gameplay quirks that people didn't really care to understand at the time, but moreso because of questionable design choices by the author that gradually turned her into a fetish character over time.

Hell, that Jigglypuff wasn't even good when it came out.

Super Mario and Luigi could use an update to be honest. The sprites are still great (albeit maybe need a bit of modernizing as far as the shading goes.) But, there's a potentially good Mario character in there. It's like a rock that's only been partually polished.... It might not be the best it could be. But with a bit more polish, it could truly shine.

I can't really comment on Peter, Homer, the DBZ characters, or Haruhi.... So I'll pass on them. Other than that, Haruhi as you said ended up being a rather disturbing character by the end....

Claymizer's characters.... Okay, I have some beef with them. ESPECIALLY Registeel. Like, seriously, its attacks are incredibly fast. Go full screen. AND on top of all of that, has infinite priority.... Even when I was an idiot, and didn't know a good character if it hit me in the face. Even then I knew something was HORRIBLY wrong with that character.

I would onto this list.... But, besides the obvious stuff. Most of the things I would have mentioned have already been mentioned.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#17  October 25, 2017, 01:19:08 am
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I think DDR isn't that bad since he made fast-paced coded creations and too selfless to any community but, I'm still hoping if he trying to improve his Phooey and Frank Jr. better as their final releases.

All I'm seeing is there are some wannabes who created predictable ideas, especially for copying my stylized things and childish drawings. There was also some characters made by Zobbes though, he is alright now. But to me, I think some his ideas seem very irregular to create his characters like Jon Arbuckle, Odie, etc. I don't think they seem perfect for Mugen however, he made them as KFM-based which is sometimes slow-paced.

I don't want to say I despise about him, it's just because I don't find his ideas very appealing to me.

DDR won't release anything unless someone gives him money.

Zobbes is a decent creator IMO.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#18  October 25, 2017, 01:37:55 am
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Speaking of those cartoon creators, Madoldcrow.

...At least Crow's SpongeBob fits this, the one many people consider the best. I'll take the many random GBA sprited SpongeBobs over his for several reasons, but...
Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 01:41:30 am by MR. IBZS II
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#19  October 25, 2017, 12:54:57 pm
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I think Kazmer's MK characters can fit into this category, they were arguably the most popular ones back then, with how much liberty he took to customize them with new moves and supers which was really cool. That being said it's very hard to look past the many issues the characters have (sprites changing colors from one animation to the other, sketchy coding that causes balancing issues such as building meter just by stop walking, long blockstun on a lot of moves, unblockables, etc), especially these days.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#20  October 25, 2017, 01:26:02 pm
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Binho's MK stuff could go under that too. The custom sprites made them really stand out. Kazmer was more popular than Mike Orbchet though?