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Mugen characters that didn't age well (Read 41839 times)

Started by jenngra505, October 23, 2017, 10:53:59 pm
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Mugen characters that didn't age well
#1  October 23, 2017, 10:53:59 pm
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As the thread title states, this thread is about Mugen characters that were good for their time but didn't age well. I think Judgespear's Homer Simpson could serve as a good starting example.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#2  October 23, 2017, 11:46:35 pm
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I think Homer wasn't a case of aging badly as it was the fad of Judgespear in general died out a while back.

As for what I can think of....

- Anything in the "arms race" of old. This includes Psycho Shredder (and variations thereof), God Orochi, Oni-Miko, Kuri's Saber and Super Mech Hisui  (I think they were part of it? They play like it) and whatnot.
- RyouWin's MvC2 stuff. It's more of a historical curiosity now, showing what it was like before DC/MvC2 emulation was really viable at all, especially with the sprites.
- A lot of old DBZ characters. They've been made obsolete with advancements in creation, nor were they really made with longevity in mind, with emphasis on power and effects.
- Similarly, a lot of old SFA/MvC edits that tried to use entirely new sprites. This is mostly in part of not transferring the fluidity of the sprites and the gameplay not having said feel either. Team Spoiler (anyone who went to IMT from about 2007-2009 might know of them) were a late example of it, where their stuff felt like it came out 4-6 years earlier than it actually did. Pax's Pax and Blackjack's Cyber Dan are good examples of this too.
- Youkai's Naruto characters, and Super Mario 64. Sort of the same issue as the DBZ edits of old; overpowered, and not exactly well ripped. SM64 however, was a vidmaker's wet dream for a while, and was a more extreme version of the Naruto characters.
- Evil Homer. Sorry Warner, but if it wasn't an Evil Ken spriteswap it might've aged a lot better. The only thing anyone really remembers from this is the intense amounts of controversy when it was new.
- A lot of stuff (non-Touhou) from the NicoNico Uploader. A lot of it really had no context to the non-Japanese, and as a result a lot of it faded into obscurity or became real dated quick.
- A lot of Shin/Orochi/Evil/Angel/God/what have you edits. Same sort of reason as the DBZ edits, including God Ken, even if I like it a lot. There's exceptions, like Reu's edits, or even (debatably Ilcane87's Evil Dan). This usually is more for ones before say, 2006-2007.
- Cattleya. Same thing as Evil Homer but at least Evil Homer's sprites were nice to look at.
- Stuff from the old CvG that Volzzilla ran. They practically had the aesthetics and coding of old SFA edits from the early 2000s. Exceptions exist, though even those had their flaws that held them back.
- That Orochi Gill character. Yes. That's a thing. It was a product of a friend's 2007 mentality of "THIS IS A COOL IDEA LET'S MAKE A CHARACTER OF IT" with no real idea what anyone was doing. I'm credited but all I did was give him my av from MI at the time (which became the port) and a palette. I haven't used the av in years btw, and you're not missing much. Imagine official art of Gill, with the red changed to a pale yellow-orange, the blue darker and the hair pink.
- Spec Ops stuff. As much as I like the stuff, the cobbled together effects from various sources and the high damage values don't let them age too well. I'm sorry Ilu.
- A lot of KFM's characters. Mostly because of how none of them really got finished.
- Kong's works. They really only exist as a showcase of what not to do, and given their obsoleteness upon release they've more or less aged like milk.

I'm sure I'm missing a lot but that's what I can think of. I'm looking to stay within the realm of things that came out in 2008-2010 and earlier, so they've had time to age. Just because it hasn't aged well doesn't mean it's not good.
Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 02:34:08 am by Orochi Gill
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#3  October 24, 2017, 02:01:03 am
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DDR's Hong Kong Phooey. He's just a spriteswap of Sho Nuff.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#4  October 24, 2017, 02:40:54 am
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Hopefully someday I'll be able to make the little puffball on my profile pic.
(Sprite edited from Scrollboss' sprite)
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#5  October 24, 2017, 03:13:28 am
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#6  October 24, 2017, 03:20:20 am
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Hopefully someday I'll be able to make the little puffball on my profile pic.
(Sprite edited from Scrollboss' sprite)
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#7  October 24, 2017, 03:57:00 am
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DDR's Hong Kong Phooey. He's just a spriteswap of Sho Nuff.

Wasn't that released recently?

True. But he's practically poorly done with the sprite errors and the similar moveset.
And don't get me started on the hitboxes.

The point of the thread is that it has to be an old character that was liked when it came out but isn't liked anymore.

In that case, I'm gonna say Kung Fu Man (I bet y'all saw that coming)
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#8  October 24, 2017, 04:16:27 am
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Kung Fu Man has his fans, unfortunately...

NeoKamek's Kamek? KY Shanix's Bowser? Most Mysterious's old characters? Donald McDonald? AIDUZZI's OCs? Maybe even the original Shinryouga Mario, Rare Akuma, and Reu's edgy shotos?
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#9  October 24, 2017, 12:44:21 pm
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Kung Fu Man has his fans, unfortunately...

NeoKamek's Kamek? KY Shanix's Bowser? Most Mysterious's old characters? Donald McDonald? AIDUZZI's OCs? Maybe even the original Shinryouga Mario, Rare Akuma, and Reu's edgy shotos?

Definitely Mario,
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#10  October 24, 2017, 04:46:16 pm
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I agree with all OG said, and I want to add some other things to that list and what has been said before:

- Most of comic book characters that aren't from MVC series. Most of those creations are stiff and unplayable, I know there're exceptions, but in general I try to avoid comic book chars, specially from DC.
- Anything made under IMT's SMVC template. This is at the same level than Kong's chars, if not almost the same thing.
- Thanks for mentioning it RMaster: DDR's chars, maybe Warner made a great job drawing chars for MUGEN from western animations, but DDR is like the bad copy of Warner in that sense, poorly drawed chars with an awful gameplay. And the worst part, the DDR clones aren't any better either (Wlanmaniax/BeanFan/WhatEverHisNickIs and so the others).

These are the ones I can think right now
Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 05:06:18 pm by Basara Travers
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#11  October 24, 2017, 04:53:26 pm
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  • Jigglypuff by Willoughby Jackson: Yeah it was popular at the time, but when you look back at it now, there's just so many problems with it, and the fact that the sprites were literally just ripped from low-res screencaps of the anime is only the tip of the iceberg.
  • Mario/Luigi by ShinRyouga & NeoAnhk: Similar situation as Jigglypuff, except take the idea of using cropped anime screencaps as sprites and replace it with balls-to-the-wall AI that deliberately took advantage of flaws in the character's gameplay which went undiscovered for years. Oh and the fact that there isn't much to differentiate Mario from Luigi aside from a minor stat change. At least the sprites are still presentable.
  • Peter Griffin/Homer Simpson by Warner & Judgespear: These were literally everywhere back in the day, until you realized Homer was basically just Iori with an oversaturated pool of Hyper Combos that didn't really serve any purpose to gameplay and was just there to cater to memes and obscure Simpsons references. Peter was in a similar situation, except it tried to be MvC but couldn't get that right, especially with the Brazilian chains.
  • Any DBZ character by Choujin: Cell was the worst offender here, but they all shared common critical gameplay quirks despite being popular, including easy to pull off Alpha Counters that still did the regular damage of a Level 1 Super AND being able to confirm off of them.
  • Blaziken/Chansey/Registeel by Claymizer: Just because you're the first to make a character doesn't automatically make it the best version, even if its by default, no matter how popular it gets in people's youtube videos. The presentation of these characters surely didn't help their cases either.
  • Haruhi Suzumiya by Choiyer: This character is a bit unique from the rest, not because of gameplay quirks that people didn't really care to understand at the time, but moreso because of questionable design choices by the author that gradually turned her into a fetish character over time.
Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 05:06:31 pm by Ricepigeon
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#12  October 24, 2017, 05:26:10 pm
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Sonic is definitely with the rest of Claymizer's characters too. The 2nd one mainly before Sean's came out. I bet many still try to say it's the best Sonic.

D4 Kirby. The sprites attract, the gameplay turns away...
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#13  October 24, 2017, 06:38:36 pm
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I think DDR isn't that bad since he made fast-paced coded creations and too selfless to any community but, I'm still hoping if he trying to improve his Phooey and Frank Jr. better as their final releases.

All I'm seeing is there are some wannabes who created predictable ideas, especially for copying my stylized things and childish drawings. There was also some characters made by Zobbes though, he is alright now. But to me, I think some his ideas seem very irregular to create his characters like Jon Arbuckle, Odie, etc. I don't think they seem perfect for Mugen however, he made them as KFM-based which is sometimes slow-paced.

I don't want to say I despise about him, it's just because I don't find his ideas very appealing to me.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#14  October 24, 2017, 07:12:57 pm
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I agree with Homer and the other cartoon chars.
I shouldn't have voted Evil Homer for mugen in the first place.

I remember how Sean Altly made the chars poorly, but he finally got better at the sprites.

Tetsuo9999 were the chars that i enjoy, now it's history and
back then, most of his chars get voice from other chars like Neku's voice as Yang. Now a days, we can find most of them the voice for each char.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#15  October 24, 2017, 07:14:39 pm
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Dshiznetz's Pokémon characters, though I'll specifically detail Blaziken since that's the one I'm most familiar with; I imagine it's the sprites that primarily draws people to them, and I know these characters were pretty popular back when they were first released, likely due to the sub-par Pokémon characters prior to them. So yeah, Blaziken:
-Can Power Charge before the round even starts and can actually cancel into the Power Charge during certain Hypers.
-Chaining is weird:
--Can often chain Normals in a loop, being able to cancel from heavy to light.
--Can link certain heavy Normals into themselves several times.
--Can't cancel crouching Normals into anything outside of other crouching Normals.
-Can do over 50% meterless with minimal effort.
-Wonky hitboxes.
-Helper select could've done with being controlled by the arrow keys and start instead of being bound to specific buttons, as to avoid skipping the intro and/or trying to remember which button selects what.

Actually, I know I said I'd only detail Blaziken, but it's worth noting Gardevoir is able to become completely invulnerable if repeated uses of teleport are timed properly, which is something that A.I. patch exploits to hell and back.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#16  October 24, 2017, 08:40:31 pm
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  • Jigglypuff by Willoughby Jackson: Yeah it was popular at the time, but when you look back at it now, there's just so many problems with it, and the fact that the sprites were literally just ripped from low-res screencaps of the anime is only the tip of the iceberg.
  • Mario/Luigi by ShinRyouga & NeoAnhk: Similar situation as Jigglypuff, except take the idea of using cropped anime screencaps as sprites and replace it with balls-to-the-wall AI that deliberately took advantage of flaws in the character's gameplay which went undiscovered for years. Oh and the fact that there isn't much to differentiate Mario from Luigi aside from a minor stat change. At least the sprites are still presentable.
  • Peter Griffin/Homer Simpson by Warner & Judgespear: These were literally everywhere back in the day, until you realized Homer was basically just Iori with an oversaturated pool of Hyper Combos that didn't really serve any purpose to gameplay and was just there to cater to memes and obscure Simpsons references. Peter was in a similar situation, except it tried to be MvC but couldn't get that right, especially with the Brazilian chains.
  • Any DBZ character by Choujin: Cell was the worst offender here, but they all shared common critical gameplay quirks despite being popular, including easy to pull off Alpha Counters that still did the regular damage of a Level 1 Super AND being able to confirm off of them.
  • Blaziken/Chansey/Registeel by Claymizer: Just because you're the first to make a character doesn't automatically make it the best version, even if its by default, no matter how popular it gets in people's youtube videos. The presentation of these characters surely didn't help their cases either.
  • Haruhi Suzumiya by Choiyer: This character is a bit unique from the rest, not because of gameplay quirks that people didn't really care to understand at the time, but moreso because of questionable design choices by the author that gradually turned her into a fetish character over time.

Hell, that Jigglypuff wasn't even good when it came out.

Super Mario and Luigi could use an update to be honest. The sprites are still great (albeit maybe need a bit of modernizing as far as the shading goes.) But, there's a potentially good Mario character in there. It's like a rock that's only been partually polished.... It might not be the best it could be. But with a bit more polish, it could truly shine.

I can't really comment on Peter, Homer, the DBZ characters, or Haruhi.... So I'll pass on them. Other than that, Haruhi as you said ended up being a rather disturbing character by the end....

Claymizer's characters.... Okay, I have some beef with them. ESPECIALLY Registeel. Like, seriously, its attacks are incredibly fast. Go full screen. AND on top of all of that, has infinite priority.... Even when I was an idiot, and didn't know a good character if it hit me in the face. Even then I knew something was HORRIBLY wrong with that character.

I would onto this list.... But, besides the obvious stuff. Most of the things I would have mentioned have already been mentioned.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#17  October 25, 2017, 01:19:08 am
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I think DDR isn't that bad since he made fast-paced coded creations and too selfless to any community but, I'm still hoping if he trying to improve his Phooey and Frank Jr. better as their final releases.

All I'm seeing is there are some wannabes who created predictable ideas, especially for copying my stylized things and childish drawings. There was also some characters made by Zobbes though, he is alright now. But to me, I think some his ideas seem very irregular to create his characters like Jon Arbuckle, Odie, etc. I don't think they seem perfect for Mugen however, he made them as KFM-based which is sometimes slow-paced.

I don't want to say I despise about him, it's just because I don't find his ideas very appealing to me.

DDR won't release anything unless someone gives him money.

Zobbes is a decent creator IMO.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#18  October 25, 2017, 01:37:55 am
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Speaking of those cartoon creators, Madoldcrow.

...At least Crow's SpongeBob fits this, the one many people consider the best. I'll take the many random GBA sprited SpongeBobs over his for several reasons, but...
Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 01:41:30 am by MR. IBZS II
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#19  October 25, 2017, 12:54:57 pm
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I think Kazmer's MK characters can fit into this category, they were arguably the most popular ones back then, with how much liberty he took to customize them with new moves and supers which was really cool. That being said it's very hard to look past the many issues the characters have (sprites changing colors from one animation to the other, sketchy coding that causes balancing issues such as building meter just by stop walking, long blockstun on a lot of moves, unblockables, etc), especially these days.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#20  October 25, 2017, 01:26:02 pm
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Binho's MK stuff could go under that too. The custom sprites made them really stand out. Kazmer was more popular than Mike Orbchet though?
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#21  October 26, 2017, 12:08:36 am
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I Think Yu-Toharu version of Hatsune Miku can fit there. Yeah, the creator put a lot of fun stuff and the sprites are great, but the character takes an excessive time to load herself (sometimes to the point where the engine can freeze itself even in modern versions) and the Ai is pretty brutal and op, I can't even lay a hit on Miku most of the time when facing her with another character.

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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#22  October 26, 2017, 04:20:32 am
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Another example I can think of is Ironcommando's Dancing Banana. It was a meme character but even if you ignore that it's rather OP even though he's trying to make a balanced character; in the spriting department his limbs are much more detailed than the rest of the body.
Example number 2 is Kishio's Donald Mcdonald (which was already listed but not in detail) who similar to Shinryoga's Mario has an AI that exploits every flaw in the gameplay, Kishio also got pretty lazy after the first frame on the idle animation having sprites with missing sleeve and sock stripes, shoelaces, and EYES.
Hopefully someday I'll be able to make the little puffball on my profile pic.
(Sprite edited from Scrollboss' sprite)
Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 04:25:30 am by jenngra505
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#23  October 26, 2017, 07:09:06 am
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Derp.

Damn those are some old memes.

EDIT FOR MORE SPECIFICNESS

Derp by neocargalpha was built all around the memes that were common on the internet back then. As a result, it's very easy to tell when these characters were made, especially since Rage Faces and nyan cat haven't been in vogue for a long time.
Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 01:26:04 am by Dumanios
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#24  October 26, 2017, 07:12:35 am
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Oh, yeah. About Donald, Super Mario to an extent, and Judgespear's Homer. And many others listed.

They're all just blatant mashes of characters you've already seen and or have before. Not spriteswaps of them, but just... Uncreative. Another thing that probably killed 'em so fast... No, Donald being made on Japanese memes isn't an excuse. Not asking for completely original ideas, but yeesh. Especially disapointing on Homer, even Warner's original is more interesting.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#25  October 26, 2017, 10:22:51 am
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Most of Mario's moveset is directly taken from his games and Smash Bros.; why wouldn't you have his Jump Punch as a DP, or his fireball as a fireball? No need to reinvent the wheel when what works works.

Mario's problems stem less from his moveset and more from how he was put together.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#26  October 28, 2017, 11:02:15 pm
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I think Kazmer's MK characters can fit into this category, they were arguably the most popular ones back then, with how much liberty he took to customize them with new moves and supers which was really cool. That being said it's very hard to look past the many issues the characters have (sprites changing colors from one animation to the other, sketchy coding that causes balancing issues such as building meter just by stop walking, long blockstun on a lot of moves, unblockables, etc), especially these days.

Oh man I forgot about this guy

His Chun-Li has aged horrendously
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#27  October 30, 2017, 08:53:47 pm
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Quote
fast-paced coded creations
What the fuck does this even mean?
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#28  October 30, 2017, 09:07:44 pm
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Rushed out the door.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#29  October 30, 2017, 10:00:17 pm
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I Think Yu-Toharu version of Hatsune Miku can fit there. Yeah, the creator put a lot of fun stuff and the sprites are great, but the character takes an excessive time to load herself (sometimes to the point where the engine can freeze itself even in modern versions) and the Ai is pretty brutal and op, I can't even lay a hit on Miku most of the time when facing her with another character.

Damn, I legit forgot about that character in my post. Yes, the problem with her is.... She started out alright. Like, a somewhat bare-bones character that had potential. But the creator just kept adding, and adding, and adding, and adding more and more clashing mechanics and new moves. Without actually refining the gameplay. I eventually threw her off my roster because of how.... Bad she was becoming.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#30  October 31, 2017, 12:16:13 am
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#31  October 31, 2017, 01:29:33 am
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(Sprite edited from Scrollboss' sprite)
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#32  November 02, 2017, 04:00:05 pm
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Rushed out the door.
This. I think "fast-paced" means rushed characters made in a couple of days just for the sake of "being the first" and stuff like that. Could be OK if the creator has his/her own template to work with, but if that template isn't well-done, well... there's not much can be done...

Also, what makes me laugh of this is:
I think DDR isn't that bad since he made fast-paced coded creations and too selfless to any community (...)
Good job contradicting yourself :P
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#33  November 02, 2017, 04:05:28 pm
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DDR's not really that good to begin with. Just try fighting his Marvin the Martian and tell me it's good after that. Old Touhou creations didn't launch projectiles at that level.

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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#34  November 07, 2017, 03:21:34 am
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  • Any DBZ character by Choujin: Cell was the worst offender here, but they all shared common critical gameplay quirks despite being popular, including easy to pull off Alpha Counters that still did the regular damage of a Level 1 Super AND being able to confirm off of them.

@Ricepigeon:

I'm going to have to ask that you elaborate sir. While Choujin's DBZ chars may need updates and tweaks, I'll agree with that, I don't think they have aged poorly at all. They're probably the most well constructed DBZ chars of their era and are still fun to play today. Those two things don't really validate poor aging imo.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#35  November 15, 2017, 03:08:24 pm
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Most Cartoon characters and old DBZ characters (except ones by Choujin)
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#36  November 15, 2017, 04:28:53 pm
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DG's Mega Man.

Great concept, but his assists are very buggy. Still needs more added to his alternate suit moveset to balance out using it over normal with all it's Rush gimmicks and helpers and Variable things.

On that note, Helmetless Mega Man by E! or something.

Top notch effects, and those stepping sounds were cool. Wish that creator made more. I have no idea what that Mega Man is going for at all though and he really would be good stuff if he were polished further.
Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 05:08:38 pm by MR. IBZS II
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#37  November 25, 2017, 06:33:18 am
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Oh gosh. Reading this thread gives me a big rush of old memories of the time when MUGEN was all the rage on YouTube, which might explain why many of these characters aged poorly. Notice how many of the characters listed were popular subjects on YouTube MUGEN fights. I believe that many of them were created as unfair characters that the MUGEN player must fight and defeat, which was very popular and gave videos tons of reviews, especially if the opponent is a popular character at the time, like Naruto or The Simpsons. As a result, many characters were made to fulfill this demand specifically and once the MUGEN fad on YouTube fades away, so does the popularity of these characters. These characters became unemployed and are practically homeless, since while they make good YouTube material, for personal matches for private fun, they are less than ideal.

I say all of this as I was a regular MUGEN YouTuber of a fair amount of fame back in the day, and I remember vividly how unfair, and sometimes crudely made, some of the characters I have fought were. I suspect that if you go through my videos, you could find a few more examples to add to the list, especially if someone go through my older videos...

On that note, one character that I would like to add to the list would be Omega Tom Hanks. I know he is a classic cheap character, but he is a bit boring and while the thought of beating people up with moving posters while hysterically laughing is humorous, the humor quickly fades after a short period of time. Nowadays, I use Rare Akuma for my cheap character needs. At least he is virtually guaranteed to put a smile on my face.

One last thing: I mentioned in the past that spritework and appearances are less important than codework. I would like to made an addendum that the statement does not mean that you should completely disregard spritework and appearances altogether, for first impressions are everything in MUGEN and that you should always strive to incorporate the must pleasing spritework as possible.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#38  November 26, 2017, 11:59:17 pm
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Sula and Hiel by Nao/T-K as wel as Fliz by Juke Kisaragi
At the time when these were the first and only kula clones they where like "woah these new character are cool and original", however now is more like "ugh, another kula clone..."

Same goes for the Len clones, the very first one, the fire using Len, Ren by Lycoris was very original and worth having for a Melty Blood fan back in the time, unfortnately it also triggered the Len cloning machine


⑨'s characters, specificaly the MB ones
They started as Melty Blood characters
When MB:R came out, ⑨ Updated them as well.
Then came out MB:R Final tuned, which also prompted an update from ⑨
somewhere at this point ⑨ ditched winmugen and moved his creations to mugen 1.0
Later MBAC came out and ⑨ was in the middle of updating them to the new system when a new and more balanced version of MBAC for PS2 came out.
⑨ deleted all his/her characters and started over with some charactes with the latest MBAC system, and MBAA came out for arcades.
⑨ made (IIRC) only ONE chraracter with MBAA gameplay, and then MBAA:CC was anounced
⑨ finally couldn't catch up and retired from mugen
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#39  November 27, 2017, 12:26:29 am
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Quote
- Spec Ops stuff. As much as I like the stuff, the cobbled together effects from various sources and the high damage values don't let them age too well. I'm sorry Ilu.

That is okay, buddy. No offense taken. I even agree with you in some level, specially the old era Spec ops (like the first version of MB-02).

We had improved their codes over the years. But I've realized they are "Mugen legends" (no super ego intended). They was the thing which got me in the Mugen scene, a lot of people still remembers them and they were known for their hard (and cheap, I admit) AI.

So I can't "fix" them 100%, or they would lose their trademarks. They are the way they are for a reason. And for nostalgia sake.

They were the thing which started my "career" in Mugen and there is a big chance of to be what will end it...

But thanks for your feedback, as always.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#40  November 27, 2017, 12:48:25 am
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^ That's pretty much how I feel about Spec Ops. The old ones are a piece of history and part of what brought me into mugen, but I don't hang on to them anymore. I've been pretty happy with most of the newer ones though. It's still exciting when they come out and they've come a long way, evolving without changing away from what they fundamentally are.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#41  November 27, 2017, 01:58:19 am
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So I can't "fix" them 100%, or they would lose their trademarks. They are the way they are for a reason. And for nostalgia sake.

That's exactly how I feel about Spec Ops and DDR's stuff. It's wacky, but that's a huge part of their charm.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#42  November 27, 2017, 02:10:09 am
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It was a different time. Flashy effects and ridiculously lengthy combos were the norm.

Anyway:

* Any MK character that wasn't made by OMEGAPSYCHO. Also every MK character which uses custom sprites edited from SF/MvC/what-have-you instead of actual MK sprites.
* All KI characters that aren't Eyedol.
* Any character based off a meme.
* The original version of Kung Fu Girl.
* All Guilty Gear XX characters made before Muteki.
* Inverse's characters.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#43  November 27, 2017, 02:14:29 am
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#44  November 27, 2017, 03:23:26 am
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#45  November 27, 2017, 04:52:00 pm
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⑨'s characters, specificaly the MB ones
They started as Melty Blood characters
When MB:R came out, ⑨ Updated them as well.
Then came out MB:R Final tuned, which also prompted an update from ⑨
somewhere at this point ⑨ ditched winmugen and moved his creations to mugen 1.0
Later MBAC came out and ⑨ was in the middle of updating them to the new system when a new and more balanced version of MBAC for PS2 came out.
⑨ deleted all his/her characters and started over with some charactes with the latest MBAC system, and MBAA came out for arcades.
⑨ made (IIRC) only ONE chraracter with MBAA gameplay, and then MBAA:CC was anounced
⑨ finally couldn't catch up and retired from mugen
I hate that on creators and specially his creations. My favourite MB is Act Cadenza and his chars from that version was superb, but then he moved to AA and above and then I couldn't catch them, more when he moved to 1.0 when WinM was still famous at that time. I'd to request via forums his AC versions to get the versions I wanted.

Something similar happened with Nao's KOF chars before disappeared, I loved his 2001 chars (mostly his K'), but then he updated them to 2002 and 2003 (their last releases), his K' never was the same. Actually I'm still looking for his 2001 K' and no one has it :(

* Any MK character that wasn't made by OMEGAPSYCHO. Also every MK character which uses custom sprites edited from SF/MvC/what-have-you instead of actual MK sprites.
* Inverse's characters.
I've to disagree in those 2. Juano13's chars are good and they were a standard in old days (indeed I use his MK system on Jim for Claytalities), and Inverse... I think they still work good at these days, IMO´

So I can't "fix" them 100%, or they would lose their trademarks. They are the way they are for a reason. And for nostalgia sake.
That's exactly how I feel about Spec Ops and DDR's stuff. It's wacky, but that's a huge part of their charm.
I am really glad to see such kind of reaction, really. And its good to know that there are more people who shares the same opinion.
Same here, I still like SFSO chars even when they haven't the same impact than in old days. I'm still a fan of old MB-02 (when it was a paletteswap of Sagat) and sometime I still play with (and against) him
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#46  November 27, 2017, 10:00:43 pm
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* Any MK character that wasn't made by OMEGAPSYCHO. Also every MK character which uses custom sprites edited from SF/MvC/what-have-you instead of actual MK sprites.
* Inverse's characters.
I've to disagree in those 2. Juano13's chars are good and they were a standard in old days (indeed I use his MK system on Jim for Claytalities), and Inverse... I think they still work good at these days, IMO´

I forgot about Juano. As for Inverse, some of his characters have problems with palettes and they're not exactly accurate, but yeah, they're good for what they are.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#47  November 28, 2017, 01:15:47 am
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No one has made a better Sho than inverse. it's part of the reason I made two other breakers chars myself lol. You can Dos2Win them and it fixes the pal issues.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#48  November 29, 2017, 07:58:53 pm
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I would have to say Dark Lee by The Pizzaman, although he was quite fun to fight against he would always send out a double and beat the hell out of you if you weren't careful.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#49  December 04, 2017, 12:54:59 pm
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#50  December 04, 2017, 02:29:08 pm
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No one has made a better Sho than inverse. it's part of the reason I made two other breakers chars myself lol. You can Dos2Win them and it fixes the pal issues.
Or open the SFF on FF3 and fix it there, it's very easy :P
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#51  January 10, 2018, 05:03:07 am
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*Gustavo By Andrés Borghi - Gustavo Was just a Joke Character, But He does not Have Specials and Hypers. He Moves very Slowly and Only Does very weak punches and kicks. Gustavo Cannot even Crouch, He jumps hardly in the air. If an Opponent hits him, he will release an unblockable toxic gas which will float into the air until it either hits the opponent or evaporates after a period of time; the more hits Gustavo takes, the bigger and more powerful the toxic gas will be. I  Think he was too slow to play with.
*Team Nicktoons By Bane84 - Some various characters sprites are Taken From some GBA Games and The Sega Genesis game for Ren and Stimpy. Grandpa Phil thows too much teeths on his Triple Teeth Throw Special Attack. I Don't think it's a Good 3-Based Team Character.
*Mario By Dr. M - He is slightly small, The sprites are Taken From some SNES Mario Games. Mario is Missing his Dizzy Sprites and He Lacks an Intro, Taunt and Lose Pose. Mario is a Crappy Caped Character. I Wish there will be a Better Version of Him.
*Old School Mario By N64Mario - He Does not have a Intro, Win Pose and Lose Pose. He Cannot Even Taunt at all. Sometimes Big Berthas appears and Swallows the opponet, Also He can be Swallowed and Dies. Sometime Thwomps appears and smashes the opponet, Also He can be Smashed and Dies Too. One of His Hypers is Were He Does a Uppercut on the opponent sending below the floor's surface down into the water. If He gets hit, He Dies and Raises his Arm. He's Just a fine Classic Character but I Wish he's update with a intro, win pose, lose pose and a taunt.
*Bloo By Hyper-Beaner/Stickman14 - He lack Voice Clips excepet for Voice Clips Stolen From Zeeky H. Bomb. He's So Buggy. His Shun Bloo Satsu Hyper Was Very Cheeper than usual. The sprites are Crappy Drawn. I Wish there will be a Better Version of Bloo.
*Slot Machine/Slot Machine MK II By Neon Tiger - The Slot Machine cannot be Controled and Attack. If 3's Match, the Slot Machine Does something on the opponet. If 7 Icons are Matched, the Slot Machine Dies, and Explodes like Mega Man (The MK II Version has the Slot Machine Does the Super Mario Bros. Death Animation). The win pose is on the MK II Version of the character. The Slot Machine is Just a Joke character, I Hope there will be a New Slot Machine.
*Dopefish By The_None - He's a Stupid Cheep character that I ever played. He Summons Zeeky H. Bombs and Melons Missles. If Dopefish Eats the opponet, The opponet gets an instant K.O. He's Pretty a Eating Cheep character.
*Barney the Dinosaur By Jay_High19 - OH MY GOD A CRAPPY CHARACTER!! He lacks a Dizzy animation. He Does not have the K.O. Cry sound. He's has Missing Sprites. He's a Badness character of it.
*Qoo By Tuki no Turugi - Qoo Is a Badly Stupid Character like The Crappy Peter Griffin and The Crappy Bender by Actarus and Ivan Lulz's Plankton and Sandy Cheeks. He has Some awful moves and hypers. The Palletes are Look Crappy and Badly. He an Bad Character By a Japanese Author.
*Cinnamon By KomoD - He's Just an Good decent Character. His Special Moves and Hypers are Even Not Fine than Warner's Characters.
*Pingu By Mulambo - He's Just a KOF-Styled Character. He Does not Have a Lose Pose. His Super Scary Attack Hyper is Only used if Pingu's life is 50% or Lower.
*Takobue By JAPX - He's a Spriteswap of Kung Fu Man with Kung Fu Man Sounds when attacking. The messages keeps Repeating Several Times. He's not a Good decent Character.
*Dig Dug By XCB - Like Old School Mario, Dig Dug Dies when Hit. His Pumping Attack was Pretty Cheep than usual. He cannot even jump or crouch. He only has 3 Lives. The Altered Beast New Life Spawning can also hit the opponent by rising casket.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#52  January 10, 2018, 10:49:18 am
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Dude, the original topic is about characters that were really good many years ago, but nowadays their standards are really low and are no longer good.
It's not a thread to list all the crappy characters that have been ever made in mugen
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#53  January 11, 2018, 09:09:32 am
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Misuzu_M by Markyjoe1990, an ancient edit made to bust cheap characters when that was still a fad.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#54  January 12, 2018, 02:52:36 am
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Pingu by Mumbalo actually fits this thread because he was pretty famous way back when but is filled with easy juggle infinites and overpowered attacks.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#55  January 12, 2018, 04:11:28 am
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*Dig Dug By XCB - Like Old School Mario, Dig Dug Dies when Hit. His Pumping Attack was Pretty Cheep than usual. He cannot even jump or crouch. He only has 3 Lives. The Altered Beast New Life Spawning can also hit the opponent by rising casket.
I can't believe a joke character has cheap attacks
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#56  January 14, 2018, 03:06:38 am
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hello eveeybody.
i needed to read all the posts to understood the topic.
i can talk about Saint Seiya creations,in 2005 i got them and being original i said "cool,i can play  with them finally".but later i felt they needed improve their gameplay in most of cases.
i tried those small DB characters and few were enjoyable beyond SsJ 4444 invincible versions.

Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#57  January 15, 2018, 04:33:29 am
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Example number 2 is Kishio's Donald Mcdonald (which was already listed but not in detail) who similar to Shinryoga's Mario has an AI that exploits every flaw in the gameplay, Kishio also got pretty lazy after the first frame on the idle animation having sprites with missing sleeve and sock stripes, shoelaces, and EYES.

Also Found in The SND File of Kishio's Donald Mcdonald, Donald Still Has Unused Kung Fu Man Voice Clips and Found In The CNS File of Him, He Still has Kung Fu Man's Move Names on His Special Moves and Hypers.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#58  January 15, 2018, 06:00:50 pm
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#59  January 18, 2018, 04:19:44 am
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- Anything in the "arms race" of old. This includes Psycho Shredder (and variations thereof), God Orochi, Oni-Miko, Kuri's Saber and Super Mech Hisui  (I think they were part of it? They play like it) and whatnot.
Rare Akuma still has the charm, and honestly I remember it ending the arms race. It was the best of chars, it was the worst of chars.

Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#60  January 26, 2018, 11:56:32 am
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Every one of my characters prior to Hauzer has either aged horrendously, or knots my stomach. :tongue3:

@DexterDudeMan155:
With regards to Pingu's "Super Scary Attack", it's an act of balance to place a half/low health constraint on heavy hitting hyper attacks.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#61  January 27, 2018, 09:13:38 am
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 Pingu's "Super Scary Attack" is still pretty damn broken given it's an unblockable OHKO that is unreasonably difficult to evade tbh... hardly a means of balance if it overcompensates.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#62  January 27, 2018, 09:45:44 am
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I probably should have stated that I was speaking in general terms (and not defending Pingu and its host of issues), but nevertheless, you are correct.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#63  March 02, 2018, 11:29:19 am
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Super Mario and Luigi could use an update to be honest. The sprites are still great (albeit maybe need a bit of modernizing as far as the shading goes.) But, there's a potentially good Mario character in there. It's like a rock that's only been partually polished.... It might not be the best it could be. But with a bit more polish, it could truly shine.

I made a balance patch for Mario (and Metool) years ago but if we're still talking about how unfortunately broken he is, then it seems that the balance patch never caught on.  Oh well, I guess that was to be expected because balanced matches don't exactly make for the most entertaining spectacle.  I imagine that at Saltybet, the matches with the most views aren't the ones with boring people like Reika Murasame and Lucy Fernandez; no, the ones that bring in the big numbers are matches where Super Duper Hyper Ultra Shin Evil Unholy Shit Ronald McDonald Alpha Beta Gamma Omega Plus Over 9000 fights Yet Another Goddamn Kula Clone But She Has All The Powers Of Heaven And Hell And The Cosmos Or Something and they spam screen-filling and seizure-inducing attacks over and over until one finally instant kills the other by hitting their single-pixel clsn2 that only shows up for a single frame due to a programming oversight.

I Think Yu-Toharu version of Hatsune Miku can fit there. Yeah, the creator put a lot of fun stuff and the sprites are great, but the character takes an excessive time to load herself (sometimes to the point where the engine can freeze itself even in modern versions) and the Ai is pretty brutal and op, I can't even lay a hit on Miku most of the time when facing her with another character.

And just when you thought Haruhi couldn't get any worse, Yu-Toharu has apparently taken up Choiyer's mantle and then proceeded to stuff Haruhi full of moves and references and content and so much stuff that she seems to have become Miku 2.0.  And she still has all the fetish stuff.  I enjoy panty shots but only those, the rest I don't want any part of.

That said, Scout voicepack for Yu-Toharu's Haruhi when?
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#64  March 02, 2018, 02:08:15 pm
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I'm not sure why you felt the need to give him a Power Charge when gaining Power wasn't exactly something he struggled with. Regardless, I've been using the patch since forever and I thank you greatly for it.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#65  March 02, 2018, 02:57:22 pm
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Speaking of, going by SaltyBet viewers, I've never been... The true view kings (queens) are "really cheap little girls".

Lots of Super Mario edits use your edit as a base as well, but his slide can be high blocked...?
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#66  March 02, 2018, 03:27:02 pm
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Oh, that's good to hear then.

He has a slide?  It might be from one or more of those edits, because I don't remember the original Mario having any slide moves nor did I give him one.

As for the power charge, it was just a matter of "he has an unused animation so might as well use it".  I guess it's not really that useful, but it's there in case you want to I suppose win via time out by using the invincibility super, charging during it, and then using it again when it ends and when it's safe.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#67  March 02, 2018, 03:58:27 pm
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If you dash and use Strong Kick, he'll do a slide kick that trips. But it can't hit OTG like his basics, can be blocked high, and is unsafe. It kinda sucks in every single Super Mario edit I've used. Ever.

Uh... Another character that aged bad... K-Y Shanix's Bowser? Anyone said him yet? EDIT: Yep, mentioned him already... GCNMario's Ryu that was a hybrid of his various incarnations and had a Ken and Sean assist? He's still pretty good, but so many faster and more polished Ryus have came out since him. He never did give Sean more than one assist special either....
Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 04:01:54 pm by MR. IBZS II

GK

Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#68  March 02, 2018, 04:00:43 pm
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My version of Akira Yuki. I really need to go back and remake him one of these days, lol.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#69  March 02, 2018, 06:25:08 pm
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some of those were or can be ..comedy gold..
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#70  March 02, 2018, 07:44:19 pm
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I would love to see creators that are still around try to fix their old stuff just to see how far they came when it comes to making stuff. In terms of the patch for Mario, I still use it on my Mario and I really would love to see an update for fine tuning. All in all,  a lot of creators don't think of longevity in their creations, and this thread shows a lot of stuff.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#71  March 02, 2018, 10:34:53 pm
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Often there's little point in trying to fix one's older characters when the issues run too deep and thus it'd be easier to just remake it from the ground up.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#72  March 05, 2018, 08:59:38 am
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Hmm, I'd have to say Ash (chainsaw hand, not the Pokemon wanna be master).  Certainly was a different character at the time and had a lot of cool attacks and whatnot, but boy . . . he hasn't aged well.  Also, digging through his sprites, he has tons of discolored and misaligned sprites, strange coding for his attacks (seriously, two different specials for QCF plus light punch and hard punch?), and various other issues, like one super couldn't be achieved because it was coded incorrectly.

If Ash were to be fixed, he'd need a complete overhaul (sprites, coding, newer moves, etc.), and possibly original voice acting to make him more lasting of a character.  He pretty much needs to be completely remade.  Still was a fun character and still kind of is.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#73  March 05, 2018, 06:01:34 pm
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#74  March 05, 2018, 07:43:21 pm
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I really agree with Rarity, I loved Ash when he came out but by today's standards... Hoo boy he's a mess. If I had the money, I'd commission some new SNK styled sprites to start things off. I would even like some of the SNK guys to do coding to make him truly fit in the style. Alas, it's just more wishful thinking and hoping.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#75  March 06, 2018, 12:35:59 am
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Often there's little point in trying to fix one's older characters when the issues run too deep and thus it'd be easier to just remake it from the ground up.

This.  I'm not touching my version of B.B.Hood ever again (except for resource acquisition, but most certainly not for playing), and I'd very much prefer it if she was left buried in the past decade.  The thought of remaking her (or editing someone else's take on her) has crossed my mind, but I've long since decided that I will not work on B.B.Hood until she gets English voices which Capcom has yet to give her even now.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#76  March 06, 2018, 01:15:50 am
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Warusaki3's CVS stuff came to my mind, with the integrated groove select, score system, announcer voice and such.
His work was really popular back then and well, they were mostly solid, weren't they?
As time passed by I started to swap out his characters with other ones and never turned back.

I am not sure to say this, so would anyone disagree if I say his work didn't age well?
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
New #77  March 11, 2018, 10:40:46 pm
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Anyone mention AIDUZZI's Ella yet?

She has like 4 counters, and if she's not using counters or hypers with ridiculous prioty, then you can't hit her during a very good chunk of her attacks. And it's not like she has a low damage output either. I would not like to see what his other two OCs are capable of. Maybe Ella was just the first of his stuff though and he only got better from there...

Also, the Doomguy 2 PPG for sure. Shame the other two never were as finalized/had as much true, honest effort in being so ridiculous as Blossom, but I don't think I need to even begin on how badly they aged.
Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 03:16:12 pm by MR. IBZS II