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Mugen characters that didn't age well (Read 40405 times)

Started by jenngra505, October 23, 2017, 10:53:59 pm
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#21  October 26, 2017, 12:08:36 am
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I Think Yu-Toharu version of Hatsune Miku can fit there. Yeah, the creator put a lot of fun stuff and the sprites are great, but the character takes an excessive time to load herself (sometimes to the point where the engine can freeze itself even in modern versions) and the Ai is pretty brutal and op, I can't even lay a hit on Miku most of the time when facing her with another character.

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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#22  October 26, 2017, 04:20:32 am
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Another example I can think of is Ironcommando's Dancing Banana. It was a meme character but even if you ignore that it's rather OP even though he's trying to make a balanced character; in the spriting department his limbs are much more detailed than the rest of the body.
Example number 2 is Kishio's Donald Mcdonald (which was already listed but not in detail) who similar to Shinryoga's Mario has an AI that exploits every flaw in the gameplay, Kishio also got pretty lazy after the first frame on the idle animation having sprites with missing sleeve and sock stripes, shoelaces, and EYES.
Hopefully someday I'll be able to make the little puffball on my profile pic.
(Sprite edited from Scrollboss' sprite)
Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 04:25:30 am by jenngra505
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#23  October 26, 2017, 07:09:06 am
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Derp.

Damn those are some old memes.

EDIT FOR MORE SPECIFICNESS

Derp by neocargalpha was built all around the memes that were common on the internet back then. As a result, it's very easy to tell when these characters were made, especially since Rage Faces and nyan cat haven't been in vogue for a long time.
Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 01:26:04 am by Dumanios
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#24  October 26, 2017, 07:12:35 am
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Oh, yeah. About Donald, Super Mario to an extent, and Judgespear's Homer. And many others listed.

They're all just blatant mashes of characters you've already seen and or have before. Not spriteswaps of them, but just... Uncreative. Another thing that probably killed 'em so fast... No, Donald being made on Japanese memes isn't an excuse. Not asking for completely original ideas, but yeesh. Especially disapointing on Homer, even Warner's original is more interesting.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#25  October 26, 2017, 10:22:51 am
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Most of Mario's moveset is directly taken from his games and Smash Bros.; why wouldn't you have his Jump Punch as a DP, or his fireball as a fireball? No need to reinvent the wheel when what works works.

Mario's problems stem less from his moveset and more from how he was put together.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#26  October 28, 2017, 11:02:15 pm
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I think Kazmer's MK characters can fit into this category, they were arguably the most popular ones back then, with how much liberty he took to customize them with new moves and supers which was really cool. That being said it's very hard to look past the many issues the characters have (sprites changing colors from one animation to the other, sketchy coding that causes balancing issues such as building meter just by stop walking, long blockstun on a lot of moves, unblockables, etc), especially these days.

Oh man I forgot about this guy

His Chun-Li has aged horrendously
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#27  October 30, 2017, 08:53:47 pm
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fast-paced coded creations
What the fuck does this even mean?
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#28  October 30, 2017, 09:07:44 pm
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Rushed out the door.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#29  October 30, 2017, 10:00:17 pm
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I Think Yu-Toharu version of Hatsune Miku can fit there. Yeah, the creator put a lot of fun stuff and the sprites are great, but the character takes an excessive time to load herself (sometimes to the point where the engine can freeze itself even in modern versions) and the Ai is pretty brutal and op, I can't even lay a hit on Miku most of the time when facing her with another character.

Damn, I legit forgot about that character in my post. Yes, the problem with her is.... She started out alright. Like, a somewhat bare-bones character that had potential. But the creator just kept adding, and adding, and adding, and adding more and more clashing mechanics and new moves. Without actually refining the gameplay. I eventually threw her off my roster because of how.... Bad she was becoming.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#30  October 31, 2017, 12:16:13 am
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#31  October 31, 2017, 01:29:33 am
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Hopefully someday I'll be able to make the little puffball on my profile pic.
(Sprite edited from Scrollboss' sprite)
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#32  November 02, 2017, 04:00:05 pm
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Rushed out the door.
This. I think "fast-paced" means rushed characters made in a couple of days just for the sake of "being the first" and stuff like that. Could be OK if the creator has his/her own template to work with, but if that template isn't well-done, well... there's not much can be done...

Also, what makes me laugh of this is:
I think DDR isn't that bad since he made fast-paced coded creations and too selfless to any community (...)
Good job contradicting yourself :P
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#33  November 02, 2017, 04:05:28 pm
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DDR's not really that good to begin with. Just try fighting his Marvin the Martian and tell me it's good after that. Old Touhou creations didn't launch projectiles at that level.

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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#34  November 07, 2017, 03:21:34 am
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  • Any DBZ character by Choujin: Cell was the worst offender here, but they all shared common critical gameplay quirks despite being popular, including easy to pull off Alpha Counters that still did the regular damage of a Level 1 Super AND being able to confirm off of them.

@Ricepigeon:

I'm going to have to ask that you elaborate sir. While Choujin's DBZ chars may need updates and tweaks, I'll agree with that, I don't think they have aged poorly at all. They're probably the most well constructed DBZ chars of their era and are still fun to play today. Those two things don't really validate poor aging imo.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#35  November 15, 2017, 03:08:24 pm
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Most Cartoon characters and old DBZ characters (except ones by Choujin)
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#36  November 15, 2017, 04:28:53 pm
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DG's Mega Man.

Great concept, but his assists are very buggy. Still needs more added to his alternate suit moveset to balance out using it over normal with all it's Rush gimmicks and helpers and Variable things.

On that note, Helmetless Mega Man by E! or something.

Top notch effects, and those stepping sounds were cool. Wish that creator made more. I have no idea what that Mega Man is going for at all though and he really would be good stuff if he were polished further.
Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 05:08:38 pm by MR. IBZS II
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#37  November 25, 2017, 06:33:18 am
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Oh gosh. Reading this thread gives me a big rush of old memories of the time when MUGEN was all the rage on YouTube, which might explain why many of these characters aged poorly. Notice how many of the characters listed were popular subjects on YouTube MUGEN fights. I believe that many of them were created as unfair characters that the MUGEN player must fight and defeat, which was very popular and gave videos tons of reviews, especially if the opponent is a popular character at the time, like Naruto or The Simpsons. As a result, many characters were made to fulfill this demand specifically and once the MUGEN fad on YouTube fades away, so does the popularity of these characters. These characters became unemployed and are practically homeless, since while they make good YouTube material, for personal matches for private fun, they are less than ideal.

I say all of this as I was a regular MUGEN YouTuber of a fair amount of fame back in the day, and I remember vividly how unfair, and sometimes crudely made, some of the characters I have fought were. I suspect that if you go through my videos, you could find a few more examples to add to the list, especially if someone go through my older videos...

On that note, one character that I would like to add to the list would be Omega Tom Hanks. I know he is a classic cheap character, but he is a bit boring and while the thought of beating people up with moving posters while hysterically laughing is humorous, the humor quickly fades after a short period of time. Nowadays, I use Rare Akuma for my cheap character needs. At least he is virtually guaranteed to put a smile on my face.

One last thing: I mentioned in the past that spritework and appearances are less important than codework. I would like to made an addendum that the statement does not mean that you should completely disregard spritework and appearances altogether, for first impressions are everything in MUGEN and that you should always strive to incorporate the must pleasing spritework as possible.
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Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#38  November 26, 2017, 11:59:17 pm
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Sula and Hiel by Nao/T-K as wel as Fliz by Juke Kisaragi
At the time when these were the first and only kula clones they where like "woah these new character are cool and original", however now is more like "ugh, another kula clone..."

Same goes for the Len clones, the very first one, the fire using Len, Ren by Lycoris was very original and worth having for a Melty Blood fan back in the time, unfortnately it also triggered the Len cloning machine


⑨'s characters, specificaly the MB ones
They started as Melty Blood characters
When MB:R came out, ⑨ Updated them as well.
Then came out MB:R Final tuned, which also prompted an update from ⑨
somewhere at this point ⑨ ditched winmugen and moved his creations to mugen 1.0
Later MBAC came out and ⑨ was in the middle of updating them to the new system when a new and more balanced version of MBAC for PS2 came out.
⑨ deleted all his/her characters and started over with some charactes with the latest MBAC system, and MBAA came out for arcades.
⑨ made (IIRC) only ONE chraracter with MBAA gameplay, and then MBAA:CC was anounced
⑨ finally couldn't catch up and retired from mugen
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Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 12:36:53 am by Duke of Corvus
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#39  November 27, 2017, 12:26:29 am
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- Spec Ops stuff. As much as I like the stuff, the cobbled together effects from various sources and the high damage values don't let them age too well. I'm sorry Ilu.

That is okay, buddy. No offense taken. I even agree with you in some level, specially the old era Spec ops (like the first version of MB-02).

We had improved their codes over the years. But I've realized they are "Mugen legends" (no super ego intended). They was the thing which got me in the Mugen scene, a lot of people still remembers them and they were known for their hard (and cheap, I admit) AI.

So I can't "fix" them 100%, or they would lose their trademarks. They are the way they are for a reason. And for nostalgia sake.

They were the thing which started my "career" in Mugen and there is a big chance of to be what will end it...

But thanks for your feedback, as always.
Re: Mugen characters that didn't age well
#40  November 27, 2017, 12:48:25 am
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^ That's pretty much how I feel about Spec Ops. The old ones are a piece of history and part of what brought me into mugen, but I don't hang on to them anymore. I've been pretty happy with most of the newer ones though. It's still exciting when they come out and they've come a long way, evolving without changing away from what they fundamentally are.