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MUGEN Releases tact and values refined (Read 8178 times)

Started by Just No Point, January 31, 2014, 05:48:14 pm
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MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#1  January 31, 2014, 05:48:14 pm
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Recent events concerned a series of posts made in Jesuszilla's WIP thread have resulted in a series of discussion amongst ourselves about the nature of certain character's readmes, and invectives directed at various users contained within. We have come to the conclusion that we should apply the same standards that govern posts made in this forum to any and all things released on this forum. Using your creations as a way to insult people, whether it's in the readme or the character itself is against the rules. Creations featuring such things will not be welcome on this forum. What is expressed in a character should be under the exact same scrutiny as what is posted on the forums. Inflammatory and or derogatory remarks, lists, or otherwise will not be tolerated.

We try to aim for a higher level of discourse. Things like insults, call outs, petty attacks, and the like, all of these aim to destroy the one thing we should have uniting us, a sense of community. A community thrives not on the lowered discourse of petty drama and grudges, but on the acceptance of new members and engaging in polite discourse amongst them.

In the past we have had readmes inciting insults towards members, whole chars made to insult people, even stages made to be racist and vulgar against members of the community.  We should be past all of this, and putting it under the guise of folly is no excuse, considering it will still rile up people and cause discomfort, lowering us all in the eyes of outsiders. A technically marvelous stage, made up of rotating pieces that read "Fuck You Infantry", does more damage to the community as a whole than a thousand badly coded characters with 8-bit graphics that turn into KFM whenever they punch.

It doesn't matter if it's all some kind of elaborate in-joke. The very fact that it has bothered people, continues to bother people, will continue to bother people is all that matters. This is a problem. It cannot be swept under the rug, or excused. This crack down will go into effect in 1 week. All we ask is to simply remove the offending portions from the readmes for future releases. We look forward to discussions about your creations being focused on what they should be: the fantastic work itself.

This has been something we should've done ages and ages ago. In the past this was exceedingly common, but has just about died out. While we wish we could say that this is a universal rule change meant not to single out only one user, the fact is is that there's really only one person who's still doing this. :-\

Feel free to leave posts in this thread to keep JZ's WIP thread from exploding.
Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 06:07:02 pm by Just No Point
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#2  January 31, 2014, 06:17:52 pm
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Do you feel this should be stickied or possibly made thread of the week??
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#3  January 31, 2014, 06:22:00 pm
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Hah. Nah, TOW is for helping authors. This is just politics. And it's just a simple statement to enforce a rule we really already had. Such things don't need a sticky.

Thanks for asking.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#4  January 31, 2014, 06:31:11 pm
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#5  January 31, 2014, 06:48:00 pm
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So I believe this also implies to that nazi screenpack thread right?  Since nazi swastikas are purposely aimed to promote hate, racism and destruction against other people even if its a joke cmon that thread should be deleted IMO.... now going back on topic, what are the measures you guys are gonna take against those found releases since some of them come from forums that most def have a different view from the guild when it comes to rules, is the user gonna have to edit the file before posting it on the thread? thus maybe causing some issues with the original creator?...
"Given the choice; whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire or to challenge the Fates for another throw a better throw against one's destiny... what was a king to do?
Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 07:11:21 pm by Lord Kain
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#6  January 31, 2014, 06:53:16 pm
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As far as measures go, I think that will be handled on a case by case basis and JNP's post states how we're doing things very clearly. I wouldn't want to promote shitty banter from anyone, let alone how that would affect future replies and overall forum climate/temperature.

While I'm still new to this, I do feel that we should crack down on the riff-raff. We're here to promote our love of Mugen, not nonsense.

However, it wasn't the Nazi thing in particular. I mean, he linked it!!

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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#7  January 31, 2014, 07:15:48 pm
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I know its not about the nazi thread , I did read jesuszilla's thread before posting this, I said that the nazi thread implies to what jnp said aswell...since he not only mentined readmes but also screenpacks, characters and stages doing the unnecessery display
"Given the choice; whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire or to challenge the Fates for another throw a better throw against one's destiny... what was a king to do?
Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 07:34:44 pm by Lord Kain
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#8  January 31, 2014, 07:31:00 pm
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nazi svastikas should not be banned per se; it's about the intention as tds said. if you have a game/stage that happens in the wwii you need svastikas for the germany stage, or maybe you fight some nazi vampires who eat babies, as long as it is a proper work. but if the release is a cheaply made stage just to stir some drama over the use of the svastika, then that's a banned release.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#9  January 31, 2014, 07:38:12 pm
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despite the verbose first post this rule change won't affect more than 2 people at best
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#10  January 31, 2014, 07:43:30 pm
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We won't be looking in releases ourselves. We will wait for someone to mention it in thread or report it.
I still don't fully think the intent of the nazi release was to insult. That one is extremely borderline and had the author also posted anything somewhat hateful the release would have been removed.

We do not encourage anyone to edit a readme from someone else so they may announce the release in found releases. However that brings up a very valid point. This could be abused as a way to prevent releases from being announced here. In the past authors have actually resorted to posting viruses to deter the announcing of it here. So I would not be against someone doing as such to post it. So those few people that might try it should consider that.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#11  January 31, 2014, 07:52:31 pm
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Pretty much releases like that one guy that kept doing a char mocking ilu and stages where your most hated person is being ran over by cars and that kind of stuff are disallowed.

We always sort of deleted them whenever it become apparent, under the dont be a shithead rule, but now its clearer.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#12  January 31, 2014, 08:25:08 pm
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Joking aside I don't really see why is this so needed, the
Notes like the "fuck you" lists inside txt files aren't so
Popular. The people who usually have such section aren't
Serious at all. And the people who ARE serious about it
Usually end up leaving anyway
Cause' they get bored of mugen and are dumb or lack any
Knowledge to keep coding
Stuff for it. You can also just hide messages without being explicit.
pls
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#13  January 31, 2014, 08:33:03 pm
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Quote
Pretty much releases like that one guy that kept doing a char mocking ilu
I remember people doing this on the past, or there are someone still doing this? lol

I don't give a damn about it neither affects me. I think that rule is not necessary, but...maybe it will works.

Quote
And the people who ARE serious about it
Usually end up leaving anyway
Cause' they get bored of mugen and are dumb or lack any
Knowledge to keep coding

This.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#14  January 31, 2014, 08:44:09 pm
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Joking aside I don't really see why is this so needed, the
Notes like the "fuck you" lists inside txt files aren't so
Popular. The people who usually have such section aren't
Serious at all. And the people who ARE serious about it
Usually end up leaving anyway
Cause' they get bored of mugen and are dumb or lack any
Knowledge to keep coding
Stuff for it. You can also just hide messages without being explicit.
:nicepost:
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#15  January 31, 2014, 08:45:53 pm
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Would it be OK to admit that I only posted that to see your reaction?
pls
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#16  January 31, 2014, 08:47:42 pm
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It's necessary because it's being done right this moment in the thread that was linked. And it still antagonizes and makes it look like we condone it.

If it is as harmless as being suggested then there should be no problem removing it either. There is no good reason to knowingly belittle a person in your releases, read mes, or anywhere else for that matter.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#17  January 31, 2014, 08:49:08 pm
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Crap now I can't put Evilhomer in my special fucks list 7 times for silly reasons because he's one of my best friends. Damn you children and your censorship demanding presence.

I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#18  January 31, 2014, 08:59:02 pm
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I don't see why you would go this far with creations but not disallowing all forms of ridicule, mockery, or insults on the forum. As not to tolerate or condone that type of behavior.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#19  January 31, 2014, 09:00:07 pm
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It's necessary because it's being done right this moment in the thread that was linked. And it still antagonizes and makes it look like we condone it.

If it is as harmless as being suggested then there should be no problem removing it either. There is no good reason to knowingly belittle a person in your releases, read mes, or anywhere else for that matter.

Right. More importantly though, it enforces some type of governing rule to be careful how you go about posting. Some people are offended, for example, by Nazis and some are not. So while your joke may be unintentional, others may not see it that way. Thinking through before you post something as such has better chances of keeping nonsense replies to a minimum.

While there will always be something to mod or talk about, it's nice to take steps to ensure as much smooth sailing that we can.
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#20  January 31, 2014, 09:08:23 pm
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I don't see why you would go this far with creations but not disallowing all forms of ridicule, mockery, or insults on the forum. As not to tolerate or condone that type of behavior.



I thought we were trying to do that? Sometimes it can be a bit tougher to deal with after it's escalated and both sides are doing it. But we're working on it. I've been going as far as telling "victims" to pm me directly if someone is constantly picking at them.
That's a bit tougher to always deal with than the rarity of this situation.

 Always be sure to report or pm a staff member.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#21  January 31, 2014, 09:10:46 pm
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Ohhh? Well that's interesting, I had no idea the forum was going that way. In fact I assumed it was going the other direction with leniency.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#22  January 31, 2014, 09:10:56 pm
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This is going a bit too far though. You may as well just disallow any kind of posting and just let us use a "like post" system, and even then people will get offended by not getting enough "likes". People will always find something to get offended about, ALWAYS. Heck, putting such lame limit in our txt files will probably offend somebody already.

Of course it's easy to just push people to remove stuff from their txt files. But the rule itself being there will already make people think stuff like "wow this site is full of highly sensitive people! I'd rather stay away from it!". Besides, do you really want people to create a different txt file (Which means a different rar file uploaded to a different link) just for this site? Just to avoid offending somebody, even if by accident? This is so impractical it hurts.
Disregard all of this, we all know NOBODY reads the forum rules.

If the situation is SO RARE, then WHY is this becoming a rule?
pls
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#23  January 31, 2014, 09:16:58 pm
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Because we want to keep it rare or nonexistant.
Not for it to get traction, seem edgy, or be cool. I'm sorry if authors being forced to treat people like human beings in a text file is pushing free speech a bit much.

     Posted: January 31, 2014, 09:21:41 pm
Ohhh? Well that's interesting, I had no idea the forum was going that way. In fact I assumed it was going the other direction with leniency.
Banning leniancy is the same. The anti bullying thing was gaining traction even while you were admin. You helped in it too :)
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#24  January 31, 2014, 09:23:35 pm
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Is not like we're bound to the laws of freedom of speech anyway. It's a private forum.

I totally agree with Caddie though. It's like if you guys were trying to fix all of this via the least effective way by pushing one useless new rule instead of paying attention to the people who keep being negative around here over and over even though they keep getting chance after chance to behave better.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
pls
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#25  January 31, 2014, 09:29:24 pm
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Fix all of what? This was just for releases :p
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#26  January 31, 2014, 09:33:43 pm
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Joking aside I don't really see why is this so needed, the
Notes like the "fuck you" lists inside txt files aren't so
Popular. The people who usually have such section aren't
Serious at all. And the people who ARE serious about it
Usually end up leaving anyway
Cause' they get bored of mugen and are dumb or lack any
Knowledge to keep coding
Stuff for it. You can also just hide messages without being explicit.
every single time it lead to some kind of drama, either by one of the persons being mentioned trying to throw down in a release thread or later on it being brought up and creators trying to act dismissively and then raging while everyone told him to fuck off.

It always leads to derails and constant drama and rather explicitely tell people this wont be allowed than to just put up with it repeatedly.

If there are better ways to set that to a rule that solves it ( you know that doesnt pass by straight up barring people that have done it before ) im all ears, who knows we might find a better way to word it.


Vans put it better, the outside communities look at us negatively, and this doesnt help at all, when you can look in a project thread and see a merry bunch discussing which people to tell to fuck off , someone posting a video telling a creator to go fuck himself, or how many monkeys should represent the mgbr in a stage , you got a problem.

Ohhh? Well that's interesting, I had no idea the forum was going that way. In fact I assumed it was going the other direction with leniency.

Last time we argued about that you were defending mc2 right to act as he did.  Are you doing a 180?

Or do you mean leniency when we dont straight up permabanned people for being dolts?
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#27  January 31, 2014, 09:34:36 pm
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This is not some kind of thought police thing where only positive things can be said. This isn't even a new rule, it's something we've (selectively) enforced before; this topic is merely a clarification that we felt needed to be made because of recent events.

All this is is making it clear that stuff that is out of bounds if posted on the forums is likewise out of bounds if included in a release. That's literally it.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#28  January 31, 2014, 09:36:06 pm
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Ah, you're right Iced. I guess things were going more that way when I left. So this makes sense.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#29  January 31, 2014, 09:43:30 pm
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Vans put it better, the outside communities look at us negatively, and this doesnt help at all, when you can look in a project thread and see a merry bunch discussing which people to tell to fuck off , someone posting a video telling a creator to go fuck himself, or how many monkeys should represent the mgbr in a stage , you got a problem.

I don't know who got warned or banned because of that but oh boy it was totally worth it lol. So hilarious, I need to find that post now.
pls
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#30  January 31, 2014, 09:46:58 pm
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It always leads to derails and constant drama

Bingo. While not everyone is going to agree with this or see it as us mods do, Iced nailed it with that quote I have above my typing here. You can't enforce everything. That is impossible. However, you can take the best possible steps to avoid massive trainwrecks from derailments of topics and keep drama to a minimum.
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#31  January 31, 2014, 09:51:28 pm
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If someone is worried that their threads will get derailed and then mods intervene there will be less likely chance to get something like that.
at any rate, red, really, i invite you or anyone else to find me a better solution and we will discuss it out. But you go to agree that while you think that monkey quote is "hilarious" anyone else from outside would think of us as being idiots,  its like what happened with "big sally" , no one batted an eye but to anyone from outside that was incredibly incredibly retarded and outdated.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#32  January 31, 2014, 10:23:48 pm
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You're going to start... deleting releases until they're made sanitary? Nothing to stop a user providing 2 links, one here, one off site and the one off site continues to contain said list. The drama will come here still.

I don't agree with this, that's far too controlling. It's also not that common. You're making a rule for 2 people. That's bollocks.


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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#33  January 31, 2014, 10:34:41 pm
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You're going to start... deleting releases until they're made sanitary? Nothing to stop a user providing 2 links, one here, one off site and the one off site continues to contain said list. The drama will come here still.

I don't agree with this, that's far too controlling. It's also not that common. You're making a rule for 2 people. That's bollocks.
I completely agree with this, moreso with the whole "rule for two people" bit, as there are literally two, maybe not even two people that I know do this, and this would just be an unnecessary burden to the mods IMO.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#34  January 31, 2014, 10:46:59 pm
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We're not enforcing anything new.We haven't even changed our minds.
This isn't even a new rule, it's something we've (selectively) enforced before; this topic is merely a clarification that we felt needed to be made because of recent events.

This isn't a 'new rule' as much as it is a 'fair warning'. You can't do something that in the past we would've told you you couldn't do after you did it. 
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#35  January 31, 2014, 10:51:34 pm
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Joking aside I don't really see why is this so needed, the
Notes like the "fuck you" lists inside txt files aren't so
Popular. The people who usually have such section aren't
Serious at all. And the people who ARE serious about it
Usually end up leaving anyway
Cause' they get bored of mugen and are dumb or lack any
Knowledge to keep coding
Stuff for it. You can also just hide messages without being explicit.
Classy. :V
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#36  January 31, 2014, 11:11:07 pm
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You're going to start... deleting releases until they're made sanitary?
nobody said anything about deleting releases. if anything it'll be a moderator saying "hey cut that shit out" in the same vein a moderator replies to an offending post with "hey cut that shit out" instead of outright deleting the post.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#37  January 31, 2014, 11:12:58 pm
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yeah its just warning ahead that the shithead rule extends to whatever is inside your characters.
we arent going to be filtering them either. if someone complains about it and we deem you are being a shithead to them you are moderated as if the thing you are being a shithead about is posted in the forum.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#38  January 31, 2014, 11:16:50 pm
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Joking aside I don't really see why is this so needed, the
Notes like the "fuck you" lists inside txt files aren't so
Popular. The people who usually have such section aren't
Serious at all. And the people who ARE serious about it
Usually end up leaving anyway
Cause' they get bored of mugen and are dumb or lack any
Knowledge to keep coding
Stuff for it. You can also just hide messages without being explicit.
Classy. :V

First of all, that's fucking clever. Good eye!!

And I think he is an upstanding lad. :mmhmm:
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#39  January 31, 2014, 11:34:39 pm
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I'm fine with this, no one reads my readme's anyway otherwise I wouldn't get the same stupid bad uninformed questions in every release thread. Either way I don't see how something like that is worth moderating unless the char is explicitly designed to be insulting someone. It's not really our business to tell people what they can and cant say in their readme to have a release thread here. Hell I'm pretty sure that's a form of violation toward freedom of speech but since this isn't a US only forum that goes out the window or whatever. Either way it's my personal unimportant opinion that it's a waste of time to bother with.
Sony took it down :( Guess it gave people the wrong idea. rip amberlamps.
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#40  January 31, 2014, 11:38:35 pm
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I think your opinion isn't stupid at all. Seriously.

The way I see it is just keeping the peace with all of this. The last thing I would want is a directed yet subtle attack aimed at someone causing a gigantic ruckus and ruining Guild's credibility. Not everyone is going to agree with this too. I get that. But we have our reasons.
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#41  January 31, 2014, 11:59:11 pm
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I'm pretty sure that's a form of violation toward freedom of speech but since this isn't a US only forum that goes out the window or whatever.
that's not how freedom of speech works
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#42  February 01, 2014, 12:14:50 am
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you right.
Sony took it down :( Guess it gave people the wrong idea. rip amberlamps.
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#43  February 01, 2014, 02:07:49 am
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No.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#44  February 01, 2014, 03:59:18 am
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#45  February 01, 2014, 04:02:11 am
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I'm so sick of that fad
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#46  February 01, 2014, 04:28:39 am
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Overused memes ftw.

Yeah, I've grown tired of it. Fuck Niitris has a better ring to is anyway.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#47  February 01, 2014, 04:43:27 am
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there's no logical reason i can't post "GBK is a fucking shitdick and should kill himself" yet i can post my character with a readme that has a large section dedicated to GBK being a shitdick. i shouldn't get banned for it, my post shouldn't get deleted, but a moderator should tell me to cut that shit out.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#48  February 01, 2014, 08:35:33 am
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I see this not so much as a rule that is trying to actively protect people from the heinous crimes of two or so fringe idiots who actually do this shit. It is just a safeguard to keep up the credibility of Guild as a place for quality work.
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#49  February 01, 2014, 12:28:56 pm
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The only thing this conversation reminded me about so far is that the mods are willing to create even more guideline rules just because of one person who did something like that years ago. I'm honestly starting to think that this has more to do with JZ than whatever happened in the thread itself (And don't bring that "he's not that important/ we don't aim at him/ he's just one more user" excuse, we all know that's not true, especially for some of the staff and ex staff). The issue died so fast it didn't really need something like this thread. If it's a rule you all kept in mind since forever then why even talk about it? Do you think the one or two people who would do this will stop just because you told them to? If anything it makes them want to do it even more.

I'm sure he wasn't even going to include such section in the new characters but now you all had to do this just to push him to do that even more. Way to get backfired :V . Is it childish? Maybe? But you guys pretty much asked for it :P

I'm with Cyanide on this. He explains most of the things I think about this with a far smaller amount of words :P

Overused memes ftw.

Yeah, I've grown tired of it. Fuck Niitris has a better ring to is anyway.

I disagree. Fuck Orochigill has a much better ring to it. The words just slide out of your mouth without any kind of effort at all. It's like if those 2 words were meant to be together! It's art!
pls
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#50  February 01, 2014, 02:31:20 pm
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This is far too specific. Is doesn't affect enough users for it to be even mentioned. But as always, no one here ever wants to move on, so they refuse to drop things that are irrelevant.

Feel free to leave posts in this thread to keep JZ's WIP thread from exploding.

Lets do that then.

This is, actually, some great news. Conveniently, Drex is working on some color separated sprites for Kyosuke in case you don´t know.
If you know anything about the history between Drex and Jesuszilla, this probably won't be of much use to him :(

So this is where it started. Jango brings up something that is ancient history and is no longer valid.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

I also told JZ to ignore what Jango said in the thread (which lead to his first question). The point is even if you try and enforce this on users, someone will still try and bring it up even after the dust has settled. Let's say JZ cleans up his readmes. Someone will say something like "what happened to your fuck you liiiiiiiiist~~~~~~~ " in a shameless attempt to create conflict.

Damage has been done already. No one will ever forget who said "fuck you" to them. Wouldn't it have just been easier to PM or email the users that this involved? As a global mod ordinary nobody I think this would have been the best coa.  :)
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#51  February 01, 2014, 02:36:51 pm
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The only thing this conversation reminded me about so far is that the mods are willing to create even more guideline rules just because of one person who did something like that years ago.
That's usually how rules work. Some person does something that wasn't expected to be a problem, and then a rule is made to deter the problem. The rule being the result of 1 person or 20 persons doesn't make it any less of a rule.

I'm honestly starting to think that this has more to do with JZ than whatever happened in the thread itself (And don't bring that "he's not that important/ we don't aim at him/ he's just one more user" excuse, we all know that's not true, especially for some of the staff and ex staff). The issue died so fast it didn't really need something like this thread. If it's a rule you all kept in mind since forever then why even talk about it?
The reason why the guideline was brought to everyone's attention is right in the first post and it's not a secret that it's the result of Jesuszilla's actions. You're essentially making a straw man argument because you're arguing against a point that was already admitted to, and you're attacking it as if it's some hidden agenda, even though, once again, it isn't.

Do you think the one or two people who would do this will stop just because you told them to? If anything it makes them want to do it even more.
Here are two major functions of rules:

1. Provide a guideline for people who wish to obey the rules, so that they do not break the rules and receive punishment.
2. Provide a basis for the punishment of people who deliberately aren't willing to follow the rules.

Therefore, it doesn't matter who rules will affect at any given time because rules are an agreement between the users and the staff (you agreed to them when you registered to the forum). Also, rules don't make people commit offenses (act out) even more because that's simply not how logic works. All rules do is make certain actions forbidden, and since so few people fit the criteria of this specific rule, it won't create more rule breakers. People who aren't willing to follow rules are a minority and will continue to be rule breakers, regardless of the presence of any rule against any of the actions they might take.
Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 02:40:00 pm by Rajaa
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#52  February 01, 2014, 03:25:54 pm
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If it's not too much trouble, could you guys point me to the staff discussion in order to read how the decision was made?
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#53  February 01, 2014, 04:13:09 pm
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Koopakoot, someone calling out JZ with malicious intents after he 'cleans' his readmes is a different scenario. That'd be standard thread derailment and we would split/delete/give a warning or whatever in said scenario.

The difference is that when he willingly releases anything with his fuck yous attached he's throwing the first jab. Don't want people to reply to, or inquire about your ramblings? don't make them public then!
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#54  February 01, 2014, 04:23:33 pm
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It seems more like a reminder rather than a new rule. I mean, releases that promote blatant hate speech (towards people) is disallowed, I don't see why readmes with passive-aggressive shots (towards people) would be excluded. I doubt re-stating this would have any real effect on anyone who's been here for years... I could be underestimating people though, so idk. I guess it was probably just something to highlight why these things shouldn't be done.

Also...

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#55  February 01, 2014, 05:15:28 pm
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Koopakoot, someone calling out JZ with malicious intents after he 'cleans' his readmes is a different scenario. That'd be standard thread derailment and we would split/delete/give a warning or whatever in said scenario.

The difference is that when he willingly releases anything with his fuck yous attached he's throwing the first jab. Don't want people to reply to, or inquire about your ramblings? don't make them public then!

So until his readmes are cleaned up, derailing his wip threads is fair game? It's happening right now, so I guess that's the case. Also since this is clearly aimed at one person (you didn't mention all the users who have similar readmes), why is this all public? As I said in my last post, wouldn't a PM have sufficed?
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#56  February 01, 2014, 05:45:26 pm
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How many active members do that nowadays? You don't expect us to scanvenge for pre- 2007/2010/whatever date readmes of people that may or may not have posted in this forum at one point and tell them to change them, right?

We don't expect Jesuzilla to take down his files are reupload them 'clean' ipso facto. We don't need such sign of good will, though it would certainly be better than two empty 'no' posts. The only thing we expect from Jz is him not posting his fuck you lists anywhere near 'our turf', if he wishes to announce his works here, or consider himself the blameless party when someone else brings his fuck you list up (because it totally IS his fault).


     Posted: February 01, 2014, 05:51:31 pm
(Cont.)

We choose to make this public, because again, 'fair warning', it's best if our userbase knows what is and what isn't acceptable (and too many people thought Jz's behavior acceptable) for future infractors.

Plus, if Jesuzilla feels entitled to tell the world he thinks lowly (be it partially a joke or dead serious) of a handful of people then why can't we tell him, within the 'borders' of our forum, that we don't want him to do so?
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#57  February 01, 2014, 05:55:36 pm
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(UGH forum auto merge. Now I can't fix some typos)
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#58  February 01, 2014, 05:56:56 pm
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Koopakoot, you were stillstaff when we started discussing this, it was even that event you dealt with that started this internal discussion.

why do all defenses to this behaviour ignore completely the actions he takes and the people he offends or insults?

Why do all keep making allowances specifically to a guy because he is your friend?

Why is it more shocking to warn ahead that he will start getting moderated over those than it is that he is doing it and has been doing for a long time?

Koop , If he had gotten moderated over it in a couple of weeks without a pubilc warning now then you would all be here claiming persecution. It says so in the first post that this had to be made public due to how many people were praising the insults, how is it shocking then that it was made public?

Even that derail, you are basically asking that someone doesnt get to answer for what he types inside what he releases. How can you be surprised someone replied to a trigger named "massah" , a racist word? Not to mention the trigger potshoting balthazar.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#59  February 01, 2014, 05:57:32 pm
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I'd like to add in that PM's to JZ have been sent before, but with... unfavorable results. Compound that with multiple happenings of issues like this and we have every reason to take the steps that we are.

Lastly, and as I've said before, you can't police everything. That's impossible. However, you can take preventative measures to make sure that things like this are properly handled and avoided as best as possible. If things like this do continue, you get a ripple effect of "Hell, I don't like that community because of XX and YY, so I'm going elsewhere." That has happened with other communities that I've tried to post in (Mugen or not). Due to how the "climate" or whatever you want to call it was poorly handled and things similar to this happened, I don't want to go to those places.
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#60  February 01, 2014, 06:34:39 pm
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why do all defenses to this behaviour ignore completely the actions he takes and the people he offends or insults?

Why do all keep making allowances specifically to a guy because he is your friend?

Why is it more shocking to warn ahead that he will start getting moderated over those than it is that he is doing it and has been doing for a long time?
this, so hard

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Put this on the profile of people who are known/wanted terrorists
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#61  February 01, 2014, 06:53:28 pm
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I wouldn't care who it was who did this and I'd still be saying the same things and thinking the same way. I don't know why you'd assume otherwise.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#62  February 01, 2014, 06:56:16 pm
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How can you be surprised someone replied to a trigger named "massah" , a racist word?

Iced, we've already discussed last night that the use of the word "MASSAH" in this context isn't racist as
  • it could potentially refer to both Master Gambit by LaQuak (hence MASSAH GAMBIT) and personal leftovers
  • modified english vernacular does not equal to old slave lingo, in this current day and age no less

One thing I find ironic is that this spread out discussion over ethics and etiquette have brought in more attention over this one individual than any of his releases' Fuck You lists combined - that have been the main focus of this topic - supposedly would have, carrying on old assumptions of a rampant ill will.

I feel like this has degraded into mere instigating than a legitimate concern.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#63  February 01, 2014, 07:14:25 pm
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incredible. "OH NO MASSAH GAMBIT DON' BEAT LITTLE OL' ME" being an old racist sentence doesnt go away because "oh its a joke you just dont understand it" which was what you told me yesterday. I searched around and asked a ton of people, uniformly people told me it was a racist remark. Anyone reading it would think so, not just go "psh its a joke shush"

Somehow trying to moderate one person always end up with cries of persecution. The same which didnt show up when wildtengu got moderated for using racist lingo as well, or when maverick was insulting people.

Koopakoot tells me that he changed and stopped being volatile, I told him that I kinda hoped he was right but couldnt assume it.
Koop himself dislikes the insults and thinks they do more harm than good.

All the reactions in this thread tell me is that everyone knows he will keep doing this kind of behaviour and they dont want anyone to be allowed to reply to it or comment on it as it happens.
If you trusted him to have changed so much there wouldnt be so much fussing about to make it seem like warning someone over insults was a big bad thing.


Those "jokes" are in bad taste and make us look like complete asses to outsiders, the insutls to balth, everything else, is a constant that you are all so used to that you wont even react to. It shocks every one of you more that warnings are being made about it than that its done to begin with.  Some people posting here werent posting at all until the warning come.
You yourself shwa, react to this by ignoring the insults and trying to excuse some of them as jokes, ignoring the rest. Somehow the fault on those is on the receiver never the creator. I guess balthazar being annoyed at that potshot at him is his fault for not knowing what a joke is as well.



The moderation warning has been delivered, from the start of this thread, from now on this type of action will be taken in account when someone complains.

You can all go back to pretend any of you would give a care in the world about this if it wasnt about a buddy.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#64  February 01, 2014, 07:22:57 pm
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That's a lot of nerve for you to say this about me. Go back to pretending? Maybe I shouldn't be as offended as I am, but I for one happen to be damn displeased at the assumption that I "wouldn't care" otherwise. But hey, whatever man. I'll just go back to "pretending". Evidently my opinion is devalued because I'm in good standing with a lot of people.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#65  February 01, 2014, 07:26:41 pm
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incredible. Massah being an old racist word doesnt go away because "oh its a joke you just dont understand it" which was what you told me yesterday.
I didn't tell you that, I said you guys were looking into it way too much, as there was nothing more than what was there. You are doing this on purpose, aren't you.

The difference between Tengu's use of words and here is that Tengu was intentionally griefing. There is no denying that he attempted so several times in public. This is like comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not ignoring the insults because there are no insults that fit any context outside of maybe that "Z2 headswap" trigger, which could mean literally anything by now.

You are somehow saying all this as if I believe no one is in the wrong but those actually causing all this ruckus, but the fact of the matter is, this entire discussion should not even be taking place. It could've been fine if it wasn't directly stealth-targeting one individual out of possibly many that certain folks aren't digging their heads in code lines to find.

This isn't a sort of thing you can police because it is broad and covers an entire community that has been around since flippin' '99. There could be old stuff out there with direct offense over ancient squabble that suddenly resurfaces, but would anyone really care to pay it any mind unless it was to start something?
This whole thing shouldn't be enforced, only encouraged.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#66  February 01, 2014, 07:30:29 pm
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no one is saying to go back and search old stuff to find old squabbles that is ridiculous and has been repeatedly reinforced by everyone to not be the case.

Jnp is even saying that we will only start actively enforcing moderation over those things in a week time.
How the hell does that turn in a "we will search every crook and cranny of code and ban creations that are insulting long gone persons" ?

I even repeatedly said that we would act only if someone got offended and complained, or if it caused any issues .


you just did the victim accusing thing again, somehow its more troublesome someone found it than that someone put it there.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#67  February 01, 2014, 07:33:56 pm
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Jnp is even saying that we will only start actively enforcing moderation over those things in a week time.
How the hell does that turn in a "we will search every crook and cranny of code and ban creations that are insulting long gone persons" ?
Wasn't Bluestreak out since 2012? Why does that suddenly matter now?

Because this is exactly what I'm reflecting right now.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#68  February 01, 2014, 07:34:36 pm
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as far as i can tell it's not going to be any more enforced than posts. it's not going to cause an instant permanent ban. it's not going to cause instant thread deletion. you're all forgetting that staff here are for the most part very lenient and bans are usually not handed out without several warnings and dialogue. all this means is that there's no difference between me posting gbk is a cunt and me releasing a character in which i include a readme that calls gbk a cunt. if gbk reports the release thread then a moderator would have to tell me to stop that shit, because "don't be a shithead" also extends to things i release. i can't believe this thread is still going at this point.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#69  February 01, 2014, 07:40:52 pm
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Wasn't Bluestreak out since 2012? Why does that suddenly matter now?

Because this is exactly what I'm reflecting right now.

if you and koop and vans and kong didnt believe he was going to keep doing that constantly you wouldnt all be so pressed to try to prove that dont be a shithead extending to the releases is a terrible thing.
The only reason there is a reaction is because you all believe he will do the same and worse in the future.

The reason we clarified the rule is because we dont trust him to not be volatile anymore, the reason you are all so keen to try to make it sound monstrous is because you feel the same.

If anything, bluestreak that was created in 2012  and updated since having those shows us that this kind of stuff is happening in the recent past and should be considered. So you proved our point.


as far as i can tell it's not going to be any more enforced than posts. it's not going to cause an instant permanent ban. it's not going to cause instant thread deletion. you're all forgetting that staff here are for the most part very lenient and bans are usually not handed out without several warnings and dialogue. all this means is that there's no difference between me posting gbk is a cunt and me releasing a character in which i include a readme that calls gbk a cunt. if gbk reports the release thread then a moderator would have to tell me to stop that shit, because "don't be a shithead" also extends to things i release. i can't believe this thread is still going at this point.

Its someone friend and somehow its worse than moderating maverick and other volatile persons.


he needs to earn our trust before we dont feel he is volatile anymore, that doesnt mean every other user will have to ignore his behaviour and insults . That is all.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#70  February 01, 2014, 07:48:54 pm
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if you and koop and vans and kong didnt believe he was going to keep doing that constantly you wouldnt all be so pressed to try to prove that dont be a shithead extending to the releases is a terrible thing.
The only reason there is a reaction is because you all believe he will do the same and worse in the future.
Why are you targeting us four individuals right now? No, seriously. The only insult I see is towards my integrity.
If this were merely for "dont be a shithead" extended to releases, this entire discussion would not be happening right now.

This is entirely unnecessary. I will admit I misread the original purpose, but if now the entire schtick is to antagonize anyone defending "x", I'm sitting here trying to remain 100% neutral, having had some negative bias towards the whole subject of interest for quite a long time, now trying to understand the point of this thread's current status.

I assume we're not going to get anywhere with this, so I will just try and make this clear.
There is literally no point.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#71  February 01, 2014, 07:49:28 pm
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Iced's stuff is all in bold

Koopakoot, you were stillstaff when we started discussing this, it was even that event you dealt with that started this internal discussion.

Yes I was. I was the only one who did anything. I asked another mod and he said "too late"

why do all defenses to this behaviour ignore completely the actions he takes and the people he offends or insults?

Defence? Where have I said that I'm for insults and stupid readmes? Since JZ's return to mfg, I don't think he's offended anyone. What's been happening is that things he did in the past keep getting brought up.

Why do all keep making allowances specifically to a guy because he is your friend?

I've told him to remove those sections before. I don't think I was making any allowances. JZ's my friend yes, but so are you. When I was a mod I would always tackle the situations I did neutrally.

Why is it more shocking to warn ahead that he will start getting moderated over those than it is that he is doing it and has been doing for a long time?

Koop , If he had gotten moderated over it in a couple of weeks without a pubilc warning now then you would all be here claiming persecution. It says so in the first post that this had to be made public due to how many people were praising the insults, how is it shocking then that it was made public?


I have no problem with this. But once again. This has nothing to do with any other members of this forum. What reaction were you expecting when you okayed this thread?

Even that derail, you are basically asking that someone doesnt get to answer for what he types inside what he releases. How can you be surprised someone replied to a trigger named "massah" , a racist word? Not to mention the trigger potshoting balthazar.

Looking through code for insults is almost as sad as putting insults in code. I don't agree with either. Other members of the community shouldn't be insulted like that. Bringing it up again (to the wrong person) over a year after the fact seems a bit like grasping at straws/trying to start a fire to me. Why wasn't a thread like this made when it was relevant? JZ wasn't posting here at the time.

...so many posts made since I started...let's see....

You can all go back to pretend any of you would give a care in the world about this if it wasnt about a buddy.

This wouldn't have been done to anyone else.     
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#72  February 01, 2014, 07:55:44 pm
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Shwa, my intent is not target you four, i pointed out you four because in the past posts you were those that were taking that stance. I am sorry if it sounded like i was doubting your integrity, what im doubting is why is this a huge issue for you.
If you say its beecause there is Just no point to this rule, then whats the bother? If there is not that much of a point to it, then it will never come a time to pass where jz will start up this kind of behaviour again and no one will be offended by his future actions?


Koop, my points to you were both the sentenecs with your name, im aware you dont enjoy this behaviour, we have discussed it before a lot and I know you dont enjoy it or stand by it.

Quote
I have no problem with this. But once again. This has nothing to do with any other members of this forum. What reaction were you expecting when you okayed this thread?
There was no "expected" reaction, there was the certainty that with so many people praising it that they had to be told that this behaviour would not be accepted henceforth.
If you see someone praising a rude gesture in public and tell everyone that rude gestures will be seen sternly do you expect anything from the crowd praising it?
Are you telling us that we should fear the reaction?


Also here, you see me reacting to shwa saying he was insulted, and its the right thing to do react, you see people react to jz insults and we are supposed to ignore them and shush ourselves. Somehow iced perceived insults are terrible but jz insults are jokes yall dont understand. Nice.

One other thing, you all seem to think that pointing out very public behaviour is some kind of rude offense, but the public behaviour that causes the situation is not. Can you not see how wrong this is?
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#73  February 01, 2014, 08:00:12 pm
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This isn't about Jesuszilla to me. This is about limitation towards free expression. Like, if I update my C. Evil Ryu and announce its update here, will I get shit for it because it is satire of bad custom MUGEN characters that it did offend some people when it was first released? Am I going to wake up in the morning afterwards to see people deliberately trying to crap up my thread and deliberately instigate me into this "volatile behavior" and that will be completely acceptable because my C. Evil Ryu has a blatantly satirical special fucks section?

I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#74  February 01, 2014, 08:09:29 pm
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if someone gets actually offended, yes, if not, no.
If  you say , tell jz to go fuck a goat and he is mad at you for insulting him, moderators will tell you to cut that shit out, we would also do it if you were telling jz to go fuck a goat in a post.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#75  February 01, 2014, 08:16:14 pm
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One other thing, you all seem to think that pointing out very public behaviour is some kind of rude offense, but the public behaviour that causes the situation is not. Can you not see how wrong this is?

Who is the recipient to all this "offence?"
Is a mess. :gonk: Needs sexy new coding to go with sexy sprites.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#76  February 01, 2014, 08:17:57 pm
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Shwa, my intent is not target you four, i pointed out you four because in the past posts you were those that were taking that stance. I am sorry if it sounded like i was doubting your integrity, what im doubting is why is this a huge issue for you.
If you say its beecause there is Just no point to this rule, then whats the bother? If there is not that much of a point to it, then it will never come a time to pass where jz will start up this kind of behaviour again and no one will be offended by his future actions?
Alright. This will be the last thing I say in this thread.

I was not talking about the pointlessness of this rule. I was talking about the pointlessness of this discussion and how a generally good intent suddenly singles out Jesuszilla as a prime troublemaker with little to no chances at believing otherwise. I am honestly fine with the rule being set, but I'm not okay with this blatant "J'ACCUSE" going on. What, a rule about "not being a shithead" should guarantee that bad blood has to come back, and that old habits can never die? We are talking about bullshit that has not happened for over a long time, and as magic, it spontaneously becomes a main concern? Happily coinciding with that one user's return and some bumblefuck trying to stir shit by pointing out now irrelevant triggers that don't even work? (that could've just been left as "those triggers don't work")

Don't act as if you yourself did not have any sort of bias towards this entire thing, as by grouping around certain individuals that may have appeared as some "JZ defense force" to you AND from that quote, you have shown distrust of that one individual over shit that does not hold up with whatever intent was had for this rule and/or topic, unless it was to directly address him in fear of... fear of what, exactly?

I will confess that I have not spoken to Jesuszilla in some time as I have been avoiding any sort of contact to avoid conflict over stupid shit we can't agree on. I've told a couple of people, yourself included. So why in the blue hell did it seem like I'm taking sides for calling out on accusations perhaps no longer hold any footing? That is something I cannot stand by. That is something I absolutely despise.

I would've been fine with whatever rule and discussion had over the topic if it didn't center over one example as an overblown public warning for one person. It is difficult for me to both find reason within all this and cast mine ire aside for something like that.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#77  February 01, 2014, 08:21:43 pm
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if someone gets actually offended, yes, if not, no.
If  you say , tell jz to go fuck a goat and he is mad at you for insulting him, moderators will tell you to cut that shit out, we would also do it if you were telling jz to go fuck a goat in a post.

And that's an answer I was afraid of. That's a broad answer. I hope not broad enough to say "As a Juni player, I feel that Divinewolf's Juli is an insult to me for my preference because she has Juni's unique moves including a quarter circle version of that Bison summon move which tells me that Juni is a pointless existence. I am offended by these blasphemies against me for playing who I like to play as. It sounds silly but I just feel that way so plz moderate divinewolf"? You need to beware of the inherent problems with censorship.

I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#78  February 01, 2014, 08:26:28 pm
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I hope not broad enough to say "As a Juni player, I feel that Divinewolf's Juli is an insult to me for my preference because she has Juni's unique moves including a quarter circle version of that Bison summon move which tells me that Juni is a pointless existence. I am offended by these blasphemies against me for playing who I like to play as. It sounds silly but I just feel that way so plz moderate divinewolf"?
it would be disregarded in the same way dumb reports have been disregarded since forever. don't be ridiculous
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#79  February 01, 2014, 08:30:30 pm
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  • does this look like the face of mercy?
One other thing, you all seem to think that pointing out very public behaviour is some kind of rude offense, but the public behaviour that causes the situation is not. Can you not see how wrong this is?

Who is the recipient to all this "offence?"
The offense at the pointing out of the pubilc behaviour?  Everyone asking why its being dig up instead of asking why it exists in the first place?


Shwa. I make no attempts to claim impartiaity, I have literally said that I dont trust him to not be volatile, its right there in the same post. The way you were wording it seemed to be in an attempt to claim the rule was a very ill conceived thing that should not exist, which is why I thought you were defending jz against it. I am sorry if my reading of the situation was wrong.

Cmon Arpa, seriously? Thats like saying that the shithead rule that exists right now prevents you from posting male pronouns because someone might get offended that you are not considering the ts movement.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#80  February 01, 2014, 08:31:37 pm
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Oh my god, are you people still harping on about this?

I honestly had no intention whatsoever of putting fuck you sections in future readmes because NOBODY WHO IS WORTH TALKING ABOUT HAS PISSED ME OFF IN THE LAST YEAR.

I'm not going to remove what's there, and you know why? Because somebody is just going to bring it up again and shit up my thread anyway, because clearly people won't move on.

I came back with only the intention to help and hype up WIP's, yet you clearly won't let me do that unless I play by your damn rules. Jango would have done the same thing regardless, only if I did it myself, he'd be accusing me of trying to hide it.

As for the stupid triggers, I once again got the idea from Most Mysterious because I thought it was funny and I didn't think anybody would get offended over some stupid satire or commentary (like when MC2 somehow thought I was talking about him when I called Wolverine a selfish dick or whatever, because THAT'S WHAT HE IS. Fuck Wolverine, now ban me for saying that.)

I thought by coming back and focusingonly on MUGEN and the help sections, instead of the STUPID BULLSHIT in ATL, I would have made that clear.

You have no idea what I've done, how much has changed, who all I've talked to, or ANYTHING ELSE about me whatsoever, because I haven't talked to any of you! And you know what? I don't want to. You people clearly just want to cling onto the past, so why should I uselessly pretend and basically bow to you?

I've explained my reasoning, what I plan to do, what I honestly am doing, and that's final.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#81  February 01, 2014, 08:34:58 pm
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Cmon Arpa, seriously? Thats like saying that the shithead rule that exists right now prevents you from posting male pronouns because someone might get offended that you are not considering the ts movement.
I'm just worried about how broad it is really as someone who likes to indulge in satire.


I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#82  February 01, 2014, 08:39:32 pm
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All of this is pretty dumb that happened cause of a pretty dumb reaction. This is far too specific and it will happens like once a year.  Just make someone report that and done. If this is a "just in case" rule then whatever.

All of this is being discussed for a dumb reason. You just have to mention a "fuck you list" and everyone loses their shit.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#83  February 01, 2014, 10:04:47 pm
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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#84  February 01, 2014, 10:07:16 pm
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Yeah, it is.
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Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#85  February 01, 2014, 10:07:50 pm
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I've explained my reasoning, what I plan to do, what I honestly am doing, and that's final.
Right, and as we've explained, if people complain about what they find in a readme or whatever, we will be treating it exactly the same as if it had been a post on this forum. That means warnings, then bannings. And that's final.

The only reason we are even discussing this is because of the shit in the readmes. If there was nothing inflammatory there we wouldn't be here, because people wouldn't feel bullied. We wouldn't be here if other people didn't feel like that was totally a cool thing to do and why are you oppressing our freedom of speech, man, it's just a joke. That's why it's also in Japanese, because it's a joke, and a random Japanese person will know hurricane2s deserves to be on a fuck you list, but only as a joke.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#86  February 01, 2014, 10:13:08 pm
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Cmon Arpa, seriously? Thats like saying that the shithead rule that exists right now prevents you from posting male pronouns because someone might get offended that you are not considering the ts movement.
I'm just worried about how broad it is really as someone who likes to indulge in satire.

Chill out. Obama The staff isn't out get your guns satire.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#87  February 01, 2014, 10:15:21 pm
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They can take my satire out of my cold dead A-transparency blood drenched hands

I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#88  February 01, 2014, 10:17:26 pm
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Great now I regret bringing up that list in one of my posts as well (I took being there in stride though and JZ's been pretty civil since he came back.)
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#89  February 01, 2014, 10:20:13 pm
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And I'm telling you I'm not removing it because it will get posted anyway. I'd rather it stay there as-is rather than have people bring it up, accusing me of being a coward and such because they have an old version or something.

Would you say that Eminem should edit his old albums and remove tracks just because they diss people he's made up with? If you say yes, you're stupid. If you say no, then you have to allow the same. It's out there, it's in the past, it's a piece of history, and the only people who should legitimately be concerned (Drex, etc.) have been dealt with personally. They know this.
Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 10:24:04 pm by PG_Kamiya
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#90  February 01, 2014, 10:24:37 pm
  • ****
Except an album is a static piece of work that is not improved and updated frequently. The parallel does not apply.

Updating your characters for the sake of removing text in a readme is six kinds of retarded, but removing it in the next naturally occurring update wouldn't be.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#91  February 01, 2014, 10:26:06 pm
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this rule change isn't retroactive
Quote
All we ask is to simply remove the offending portions from the readmes for future releases.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#92  February 01, 2014, 10:27:34 pm
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If someone won't let it go after it was removed, we would go after them for being shitheads. People shouldn't be allowed to do stuff like that, egging people on and such.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#93  February 01, 2014, 10:30:21 pm
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Do you have the will to stop the fuck yous and cryptical insults?

We have the will to tell people not to nag you for your past mistakes as long as you don't repeat them. Much like we wouldn't tolerate someone bringing that time you posted shock images out of the blue, as you were punished and acknowledged your mistake a long time ago.

edit: ninja'd
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#94  February 01, 2014, 10:41:07 pm
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See my posts.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#95  February 01, 2014, 10:54:00 pm
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The world would be a pretty neat place if only the people that should be legitemately concerned about something talked about it. But it isn't. By keeping that shit there like it's a draft of constitution or some shit like that you're tempting strangers (like Jango) to dig it up and ask questions you clearly don't want to answer, much less in threads about your works.

Why do you do this? Why are you so afraid to look like a coward if you admit none of that is relevant anymore? Why if the only people concerned already received the message do you need to keep it for other people to see it and make up their own (most likely erroneous) theories? Just to keep the Jesuzilla legend and all of its bits alive? 
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#96  February 01, 2014, 11:40:57 pm
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I honestly had no intention whatsoever of putting fuck you sections in future readmes because NOBODY WHO IS WORTH TALKING ABOUT HAS PISSED ME OFF IN THE LAST YEAR.

I'm not going to remove what's there, and you know why? Because somebody is just going to bring it up again and shit up my thread anyway, because clearly people won't move on.

And I still have no intention of having it in future releases but I will tell you right now that you are making me reconsider it.

Look no further than this and what has happened. And for the record, I regret nothing I ever put in that section.

I come in peace, stay out of your stupid pseudo-politics for everyone's own sanity, and yet you forcefully drag me back in due to someone else bringing it up for the sole purpose of stirring shit up with me.

Speaking of that, as big a problem as I've had with some creators, not once have I ever fucked up their release or WIP threads with irrelevant crap, even if I did get in a fuck you section (not that I can think of any). And even if I did, I would have gotten a warning or ban or what-have-you. So why hasn't this person? Have some fucking class.
Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 12:03:33 am by PG_Kamiya
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#97  February 02, 2014, 12:55:03 am
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(Hadn't seen that second edit)

The reason why nobody has told Jango to stop yet is because Diepod replied to him as...if his post was relevant, making it relevant.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#98  February 02, 2014, 02:05:56 am
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Lot happened while I was at work o_O

JZ seems to be saying he won't do this anymore. Yes, he should never have to begin with and he should remove the old insults. But our time to moderate for that has past. We should deal with it and move on. Most ppl in that list have probably come to peace with it.

At this point the finger pointing is being much more damaging. Both sides understand the stance of the op. It's clear Guild does not approve of this now. So let's try to leave it there.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#99  February 02, 2014, 02:43:57 am
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You may want to enforce that in his WIP thread then by splitting off every single post regarding old information. It's a WIP thread, not a release topic so logically even under your new rule, he's still not breaking any rules.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#100  February 02, 2014, 03:14:18 am
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Was already headed that way when I got on my PC. Doing it now.

Done.
Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 03:23:35 am by Just No Point
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#101  February 02, 2014, 03:31:01 am
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Shouldn't we just trash it? It's not like something could possibly come out of it.

Xan

Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#102  February 02, 2014, 03:34:38 am
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It'll just die on its own after it cools down. No need to trash it imo.
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Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#103  February 02, 2014, 04:02:58 am
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Diepod standing up for Balth makes it good.

Didn't merge it cause it'd screw with the reply order. Didn't trash it because for better or worse it happened. And is connected to this thread.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#104  February 02, 2014, 04:26:08 am
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back in my day you could post an ascii penis in a thread and get away with it by posting pictures of bardock

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Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#105  February 02, 2014, 08:37:07 am
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mugen... mugen never changes
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#106  February 02, 2014, 09:04:38 am
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History always repeats itself.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#107  February 04, 2014, 06:39:12 am
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why didn't someone from the staff simply sent a pm to jz or post in said thread telling him: "hey could you like remove that fuck you list from your readme cuz is kinda offensive and stuff"

then jz would have been like "hmm kay..." and everything would be ok again

and if anyone wants to do the same thing (which never happens) the staff would deal with it like whenever someone is being a shithead and tell them to cut it out

i'm just saying...
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#108  February 04, 2014, 07:36:55 am
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because that would be singling him out
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#109  February 07, 2014, 11:50:24 pm
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im going to assume this just means a "fuck you section" cause I had plans to include triggers to certain authors (who I deem terrible and op as hell) in my character. am I going to be refused to post a character because of this?
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
Star Fucker said:
Do you often run naked in the streets screaming "YOU STUPID ASS FAGGOT NIGGA BITCHES WHY YOU NO HELP ME WITH MY MATH HOMEWORK !!!!???!!!!"
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#110  February 07, 2014, 11:52:51 pm
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im going to assume this just means a "fuck you section" cause I had plans to include triggers to certain authors (who I deem terrible and op as hell) in my character. am I going to be refused to post a character because of this?

I think this also refers to characters themselves and stages as well. Like if you were to put an intro in a char react to a certain authorname and call the author out during that intro with insults and stuff like that, that I could think would be worthy of a warning.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#111  February 07, 2014, 11:54:39 pm
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I want to include anti cheap measures in his coding so he can combat with certain bullshit thrown his way. im asking if thats not ok now cause I really hope thats not the case.
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
Star Fucker said:
Do you often run naked in the streets screaming "YOU STUPID ASS FAGGOT NIGGA BITCHES WHY YOU NO HELP ME WITH MY MATH HOMEWORK !!!!???!!!!"
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#112  February 07, 2014, 11:55:15 pm
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No, if it's not an obvious insult then you're good. And we won't be checking releases anyway. Someone would have to actually report it as offensive and then we'd still decide if it seems meant to offend or not. Triggering author names wouldn't be offensive. Unless your character started blatantly insulting said author.
Re: MUGEN Releases tact and values refined
#113  February 07, 2014, 11:56:01 pm
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lol ok then im good.
You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
Star Fucker said:
Do you often run naked in the streets screaming "YOU STUPID ASS FAGGOT NIGGA BITCHES WHY YOU NO HELP ME WITH MY MATH HOMEWORK !!!!???!!!!"