The Mugen Fighters Guild - Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

Luigi Master

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#61 October 23, 2008, 10:40:06 pm

I'mma Luigi, numbara one!

You have a Melty Blood character on your roster.

That, and obsessing over freeware games from defunct companies that are older than you is instant fail, so your point is moot.

ross61 said, January 12, 2009, 02:48:34 am

No Dark Sean and Gouken are Good characters

Tetsuo9999 said, January 16, 2009, 01:11:59 am

Trivial knowledge: Anime sucks.

Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 10:43:56 pm by Gardevoir

TamerZack

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#62 October 23, 2008, 10:42:32 pm

Who wants a hug?

Gardevoir said, October 23, 2008, 08:59:48 pm

If you want him to fare better, resize his collisions and give him less defense or life (life is preferable because most grabs ignore defense). I'd say about 800, and that's pushing it. A few hits and he already lost 1/3 of his life.

Actually, I found his health falls faster than normal sometimes. Could be me.

Quote

It may sound cheap, but this is the year 2008, where lolis the same size as Maxime can take down advanced martial artists, who were considered cheap in the past no less, without effort. If this was the early 2000's, then the way he sits would be perfect.

Not all lollies, Komachi, even in her Gold palette, is still nothing.

Also, if he suddenly had the strength to lift terribly heavy gaunlets and could only be stopped by a giant motha f***ing badger, who had to handicap him, wouldn't that make him stronger?

Yo dog I herd yo and yo dog liked yoyos so we put yo dog in a yoyo so yo can yoyo yo dog while yo dog yoyos dog.

Luigi Master

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#63 October 23, 2008, 10:46:36 pm

I'mma Luigi, numbara one!

MUGEN is a fighting game.

Fighting games need no logic.

And the reason why his HP falls down so fast is because you have the likes of Warcuied (NOT a recolor) and other Melty BS characters.

ross61 said, January 12, 2009, 02:48:34 am

No Dark Sean and Gouken are Good characters

Tetsuo9999 said, January 16, 2009, 01:11:59 am

Trivial knowledge: Anime sucks.

Robert The Small

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#64 October 23, 2008, 10:59:28 pm

Gardevoir said, October 23, 2008, 10:40:06 pm

You have a Melty Blood character on your roster.

You realize that isn't a Melty Blood character but Melty Blood's ACTUAL CLSN?

"With ignorance and arrogance, success is assured."
~Mark Twain
Sig by TempesT

TamerZack

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#65 October 23, 2008, 11:03:38 pm

Who wants a hug?

Gardevoir said, October 23, 2008, 10:46:36 pm

And the reason why his HP falls down so fast is because you have the likes of Warcuied (NOT a recolor) and other Melty BS characters.

Actually I don't have Warcueid, or all the Melty Blood characters on my MUGEN, I only try them out. And I don't play as boss tiers either.
Also his defence is normal, just did a re-test.

@ Gardevoir: Since when did you hate Melty Blood, you seemed pretty cool when you heard Captain Falcon was that style?

Yo dog I herd yo and yo dog liked yoyos so we put yo dog in a yoyo so yo can yoyo yo dog while yo dog yoyos dog.

Davod Sirloin

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#66 October 24, 2008, 12:27:02 am

YOMI

Gardevoir said, October 23, 2008, 10:40:06 pm

That, and obsessing over freeware games from defunct companies that are older than you is instant fail, so your point is moot.

Say what?

Ryanide

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#67 October 24, 2008, 10:46:59 am

It's not furry you goons, it's anthro! ANTHRO!

Gardevoir said, October 23, 2008, 08:46:30 pm

Ryanide said, October 23, 2008, 07:29:56 am
Gardevoir said, October 23, 2008, 06:44:02 am
Ryanide said, October 23, 2008, 06:30:47 am
Gardevoir said, October 20, 2008, 06:00:18 am
So that means, that if I just wave my hand above someone's head, they will get hit. Doesn't seem very realistic...

If you wanted to punch a short guy, you wouldn't just punch above him, you'd adjust your swing a little downwards so that it would hit him.

Same principle here.

I know, common sense. No offense intended, but the collision detection is on par with that of SSBMelee's. That is, very poor.

I would consider generous collission detection to be better than having a character with an unfair advantage against tall players.

Most all tall characters, save for bosses (such as Apocalypse and Abyss) have crouching attacks, and crouching kicks seem to have the best range, so they really don't have that big of an advantage.

Fun fact: In MvC2, Servbot was the overall smallest character, but much larger characters like Juggernaut and Sentinel could easily dispose of him.

Then again, it is MvC2, one of the most broken fighters to date.

The problem with limiting an opponent to crouching attacks is that most crouching attacks can just be blocked low. This means that you can avoid most problems by just ducking and blocking. Maxime is also not supposed to be a "fast but low defense" character. he's supposed to be a normal defense, fast, safe and low-damage character.

Maxime's startups aren't bad at all. 2 frames is all it takes to execute a jab, and that can be mixed up with a low jab meaning that you will land a jab pretty much every time you're close to an opponent. From a jab, you can usually deal about 1/5 of a lifebar's worth of damage, and only 2 of those will give you enough special to use his level 1 super, which may I remind you, is fast, covers the length of the screen, and drains the opponent's special. It also allows you to taunt after you land it with no chance of being interrupted, meaning you get half of the special back. His other lunging attacks like the boost kick or 66C leave you at a frame advantage if the opponent blocks them.

His attacks are also very safe on block. He can essentially just spam his normals and not have to worry about being counterattacked with few exceptions. If I make his times any more leniant, he'll be able to keep the opponent in blockstun for as long as he wants. His blockstrings are already long and he gets chip special, so that's not a good idea. His will-o-whisps basically allow for all sorts of mix-ups and force the opponent to play defensive the whole time they're out, since they can't be worked around or attacked. Maxime can then cross up with an air dash, or springjump them to prevent blockstun, or use the stun from the projectile to cut off the afterlag of his less safe attacks, taunt, etc.

This is not even bringing up the various parries and things that he has. As I said before, using projectiles against Maxime is a bad idea, because he can just scoot past them with his rush parry and he gets a boost in special too.

His level 2 super is really fast and basically impossible to avoid. Making it do any more chip damage would just be stupid, especially since Maxime's special builds faster than the average character

As for the level 3 super, there is no way I'm ever going to make it unblockable. Unblockable supers are always a bad idea. they're either a) broken and too hard to avoid if set up correctly or b) too easy to avoid because they're slow or can't be set up for

I consider leniant hitboxes to be good, being an avid fan of Melty blood and Smash bros, I think meaty hitboxes are important for the gameplay. Characters should not have to rely on being small to avoid damage.

Also, have you ever wondered why so many modern fighters suck? It's because they aren't balanced and are therefore not competitive. I'm going to keep my characters sensible and am not stooping to overpowering them. Maxime is overpowered as he is anyway. I wanted him to be a more technical character and harder to play, but his game basically comes down to jab > combo. I'm seriously considering lowering his damage output again for the next version. I'm going to make his will-o-whisps duckable too, but that's still going to leave the opponent open for a mid attack if they try that.

Gardevoir, you don't seem to know what I'm going for here, nor do you seem to be playing my character properly. So stop correcting people and bashing Melty Blood, which is a highly respectable and balanced doujin game.

Keep in mind that I'm building Maxime with my own doujin in mind. I don't care about BS characters like Giant Apocalypse and Shining Magic Girl Dance Flying Super Electro-charged Orochi Rare God Invincible Farting Iori Magneto. Maxime is not designed to compete with Mugen characters, but realistic characters who are balanced for PvsP.

I appreciate your input, but please look deeper than just the damage he deals.

A magical force-field surrounding a brick in an iron vault...even if the security is breached, the thieves are bound to be disappointed.

Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 11:32:10 am by Ryanide

Ryanide

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#68 October 24, 2008, 11:25:32 am

It's not furry you goons, it's anthro! ANTHRO!

TamerZack said, October 23, 2008, 10:42:32 pm

Gardevoir said, October 23, 2008, 08:59:48 pm
If you want him to fare better, resize his collisions and give him less defense or life (life is preferable because most grabs ignore defense). I'd say about 800, and that's pushing it. A few hits and he already lost 1/3 of his life.
Actually, I found his health falls faster than normal sometimes. Could be me.

Quote
It may sound cheap, but this is the year 2008, where lolis the same size as Maxime can take down advanced martial artists, who were considered cheap in the past no less, without effort. If this was the early 2000's, then the way he sits would be perfect.
Not all lollies, Komachi, even in her Gold palette, is still nothing.

Also, if he suddenly had the strength to lift terribly heavy gaunlets and could only be stopped by a giant motha f***ing badger, who had to handicap him, wouldn't that make him stronger?

It did make him stronger. Doesn't that say something about how weak rabbits are in Maxime's world? XD

But seriously, I did state that while the Hunter's claws provided Maxime with lifting force and speed, they couldn't do much to improve his power. They essentially put him in the league of a small-scale predator. Still no match for a badger. (Irl, badgers are incredibly strong and can bite through a human arm or something crazy like that)

A magical force-field surrounding a brick in an iron vault...even if the security is breached, the thieves are bound to be disappointed.

Hykeush

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#69 October 24, 2008, 12:09:02 pm

Well, first, say to you as Maxime is one of my favorite Mugen character; Nice gameplay, good profile and story, nice graphic and sound (He look better in Hi-Res Mugen) and i'm love as he looking furious and cute to the same time.

But i'm find some bugs whit 2 of his Hypers. Some characters freenze animation when Maxime use Edge Master or Chopper Time whit they, or not take the damage of the final slash.

Also, if Maxime use Edge Master in Simul mode, and one or both enemy keeps whit energy, happens some very weird... one of the enemy loose all his/her colision boxes, and can not be attacked, but he/she
neither attack. Some seconds more later, the character return to normal.

I'm new in Mugen and not know as programing code, but seem the Edge Master bug usually happen if the other character not has the Dizzy State.

I'm hope you can improve Maxime soon (More movelist mostly, his actual strength seem suitable for the character) and my apologizes for the bad English.

Luigi Master

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#70 October 24, 2008, 06:41:56 pm

I'mma Luigi, numbara one!

Ryanide said, October 24, 2008, 10:46:59 am

So stop correcting people and bashing Melty Blood, which is a highly respectable and balanced doujin game.

HAHAHAHAHA! I take it you also find Street Fighter: Rainbow Edition balanced as well, huh?

ross61 said, January 12, 2009, 02:48:34 am

No Dark Sean and Gouken are Good characters

Tetsuo9999 said, January 16, 2009, 01:11:59 am

Trivial knowledge: Anime sucks.

Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 07:10:38 pm by Gardevoir

Davod Sirloin

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#71 October 24, 2008, 10:33:08 pm

YOMI

It was not my intention to start an argument about people's definition of "balance", all I did was show an example of collision boxes from a commercial game. If you'd like to expound on why Melty Blood is unbalanced I suggest you start a new thread.

TamerZack

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#72 October 25, 2008, 03:34:49 am

Who wants a hug?

Ryanide said, October 24, 2008, 11:25:32 am

It did make him stronger. Doesn't that say something about how weak rabbits are in Maxime's world? XD

But seriously, I did state that while the Hunter's claws provided Maxime with lifting force and speed, they couldn't do much to improve his power. They essentially put him in the league of a small-scale predator. Still no match for a badger. (Irl, badgers are incredibly strong and can bite through a human arm or something crazy like that)

Okay, just checking.

Yo dog I herd yo and yo dog liked yoyos so we put yo dog in a yoyo so yo can yoyo yo dog while yo dog yoyos dog.

Luigi Master

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#73 October 25, 2008, 07:05:13 am

I'mma Luigi, numbara one!

Didn't mean to, but you should've use a better example than Melty Blood.

ross61 said, January 12, 2009, 02:48:34 am

No Dark Sean and Gouken are Good characters

Tetsuo9999 said, January 16, 2009, 01:11:59 am

Trivial knowledge: Anime sucks.

Ryanide

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#74 October 29, 2008, 01:42:16 am

It's not furry you goons, it's anthro! ANTHRO!

There's really nothing wrong with Melty Blood. Last time I checked, only a select few characters were considered unplayable, and even then Neko Arc Chaos managed to do decently well despite being a joke character.

Another thing worth considering (that everybody seems to forget about) is that Maxime can shove out of blockstrings with a sacrifice of 200 special, and then combo immediately. For Maxime, 200 special is really nothing, which means that most of the time he's safe against blockstrings if you know what you're doing. I'm thinking of changing this in the next update to make it burn off a Rave Exceed point instead of consuming special, and his taunt will also build rave exceed.

I might allow him to start the match with one RE point.

We'll see about his damage output once his RE system is complete and he has attacks that make use of them.

Hykeush, thanks for the feedback on his bugs. Edge Master is a bit tricky for me, since it requires the opponent to be in a dizzy state. I guess I could fix this by making a custom state for the character, but then it will bug up on characters who can't be put into custom states.

Maxime isn't really designed with "abnormal" opponents in mind, so I don't really bother thinking of stuff like that. If you play him against characters without dizzy states or who can't be put into custom states then there may be some bugs.

I don't know why the Chopper would be freezing the opponent though...I'll have to look into that.

A magical force-field surrounding a brick in an iron vault...even if the security is breached, the thieves are bound to be disappointed.

TamerZack

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#75 October 29, 2008, 11:40:57 pm

Who wants a hug?

Ryanide said, October 29, 2008, 01:42:16 am

We'll see about his damage output once his RE system is complete and he has attacks that make use of them.

I don't know why the Chopper would be freezing the opponent though...I'll have to look into that.

Well I can wait to see him completely finished.

Quote

There's really nothing wrong with Melty Blood. Last time I checked, only a select few characters were considered unplayable, and even then Neko Arc Chaos managed to do decently well despite being a joke character

In case anyone cares, pretty much all the Arcueids (excluding Chotto-Komaru's and Dark A.) were boss tier. That and any character with "_T" at the end.

Yo dog I herd yo and yo dog liked yoyos so we put yo dog in a yoyo so yo can yoyo yo dog while yo dog yoyos dog.

Luigi Master

Re: Narayan Maxime version 1.5! Updated with AI, Hitsparks and other fun stuff.

#76 October 30, 2008, 12:48:35 am

I'mma Luigi, numbara one!

That's like making Ryu, the basic character, a boss tier character. :V

Next thing we'll know is seeing Dan Hibiki completely overpower everyone else.

ross61 said, January 12, 2009, 02:48:34 am