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Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG) (Read 1382 times)

Started by zigg4d, February 08, 2009, 03:58:22 am
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Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#1  February 08, 2009, 03:58:22 am
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Alright, grab some popcorn if you dare read this thread: it is extensive & detailed



I've got a semi-secret work in progress going on (I say semi because I'm telling you guys what it is, but at this time I'm too lazy to bother putting it anywhere else at the moment).

The tonberry
one of the signature characters from the final fantasy series.

if you don't know, tonberries are almost as iconic as moogles, although moogles are more famous because of the pom poms & thier famous catchphrase Kupo.
But enough about him. He's gonna have some mechanics that are somewhat lucario-based but considerably stricter, Details below.

but in a nutshell, I need LOTS of help, in regards to this character (and it'll help to motivate me to finish him).



Issue #1
The "Grudge Bonus"

-Mechanics-

The tonberry will gain power boosts if he has lower health than his foe, much similar to lucario, but unlike the latter, the tonberry gains bonus strictly based the difference between his health and his foe's

Specifically, he will gain 1 pt of attack per 10 pts of health he's lost compared to his foe.

I feel that the code would be player1life - player2life or something like that & involve a variable if needed, but I must be absolutely sure so I'm asking you guys.


Issue #2
percent-based Damage

Alright, now for something considerably trickier,

The tonberry's signature super, "chef's knife" (with the infamous *Doink*) is a level 2 super that does 70%(or 60%?) damage, the catch is that it takes 70% (60%?) of the foe's current health and not just 700 (or 600) raw damage points. (chef's knife is gonna have a custom state, I'm sure of this)

I need to know how to take off current health as describe above.


Issue #3
Counters

this is somewhat of a double-issue, for one thing I have no clue how counters work.

in particular, the tonberry's gonna have two kinds of counters, one being a special attack that freezes the foe in place.

Coding the freeze would require a custom state, but I haven't looked as to how exactly it works.

the other counter is his second level 2 super: karma, which does damage based on the formula as describe in the grudge bonus. but will do 250 damage regardless if the health difference is less than 250.


Issue #4
The "Voodoo" hyper (level 3)

(part 1 - Balance)

Now this "obscure as it is devastating" attack is slow, but it reduces the foe's health to 1. but to add insult to injury, it insta-kills foes with 20% health or less.
The problem with that, is that it's virtually useless against human players, even though it's unblockable one hit is all it takes to stop the voodoo.

This is where the "Ice Cold Revenge" counter comes in: to make this hyper not-so-useless against smart human players, the tonberry will need to rely on the counter in conjunction with voodoo in order to execute it effectively.

but in terms of balance considering how devastating this attack his, I'm not sure if the tonberry player should be allowed a only split second to "seal the deal" (before the frozen player has time to escape the attack).

(part 2 - how to code it)

I need to know how to set a foe's health to one point, while disregarding armor, the problem I have is that I'm not sure if it has to be a custom state or not.

coding the insta-kill portion of it would be fairly easy I believe.



well anyways, that's my (long ass) help request. sorry I don't have a tl;dr version, I don't feel like doing one at the moment.
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#2  February 08, 2009, 05:39:45 am
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Spoiler: # 1 (click to see content)

Spoiler: # 2 (click to see content)

Spoiler: # 3 (click to see content)

Spoiler: # 4 (click to see content)

if you don't understand some of the triggers(im sure you understand), then just look in you docs. if you don't like opening up folders while browsing the net and coding; to your convenience http://mugenguild.com/docs/
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#3  February 08, 2009, 03:34:55 pm
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 o_O

wow... That's easier then I thought it'd be  :-X

well either way, major thanks there rajaa!
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#4  February 10, 2009, 03:42:15 am
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A we got a little problem with the grudge bonus code Rajaa;

It doesn't work, As is it gives a "need trigger" error, changing it to trigger1 (& the state to either 19000 or -2) makes MUGEN no longer crash, but there's no damage bonus for some odd reason

(oh and while we're at it, how do you get a crouching attack launch people in the air?)

[size=5pt]rajaa, I'm sorry if I'm being rude by saying this, but the way you put the grudge bonus code was very newb-unfriendly.[/size]
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#5  February 10, 2009, 05:52:53 am
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You can't copy paste it, and if you set it up in the statedef -2, and it should work as soon as you have less than or equal to 10 damage points compared to your opponent.

look at other sctrls and see the standard format, if the only thing you changed was "trigger" then that's your problem.

to get a crouch attack to launch in the air, use a [mcode]hitdef[/mcode] click it
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#6  February 13, 2009, 06:09:13 pm
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 :inquisitive:

I think there's something I'm doing wrong

Code:
;;;;grudge bonus
[statedef -2]

[state -2]
type = varset
trigger1 = 1
var(10) = p2life - life
ignorehitpause=1

[state -2]
type = varset
trigger1 = var(10)<0
var(10) = 0
ignorehitpause=1

[state -2]
type = attackmulset
trigger1 = 1
value = 1+(floor(var(0)/10))
ignorehitpause=1

that's what's now in the .def, and MUGEN doesn't crash anymore but it STILL doesn't work...

just what am I doing wrong?
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#7  February 13, 2009, 07:19:40 pm
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var(0)/10
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#8  February 13, 2009, 07:22:38 pm
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var(0)/10

Try making it var(10)/10.0 instead (making it float)
Why would you want a int as attackmulset?
This thing seems kind of broken.
I mean. If P2 have 899 life and you have 289. 899-289=610. 610/10=61.
1+61 = 62.
He would be 62 times stronger! If he had an attack that made 20 damage, it would be 20*62. That would be 1240 = one hit KO.

I didn't notice. It would still be cheap though.
V
Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 07:27:55 pm by Anjel
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#9  February 13, 2009, 07:24:21 pm
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No, he used var(10) for the life difference, but then divided by var(0), that's why i pointed that out. :P
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#10  February 13, 2009, 07:56:14 pm
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He would be 62 times stronger! If he had an attack that made 20 damage, it would be 20*62. That would be 1240 = one hit KO.

I didn't notice. It would still be cheap though.
V
That's how he wanted it, he can find a way to limit it using the same method of detecting if it's below zero.

Attackmulset works exceptionally fine from my experience. But yeah the code is currently far beyond cheap.

Get beat up, Light punch ;P
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#11  February 13, 2009, 07:59:38 pm
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I understand that he wanted that, but he should consider dividing it by more than 10.
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#12  February 13, 2009, 10:54:19 pm
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It's more time consuming, but i would have added all the damage in as solid integers on the hitdef itself rather than using a % increase with attackmulset.

Get the right equation for the variable and set it accordingly. floor(p2life-life/10) 1000-900/10 = 10 extra points of damage. Fits equation perfectly. Using floor will cause it to bottom out when the next 10 point mark hasn't quite been reached.

It's probably fairer that way. Will lower as it goes, and the maximum bonus you could ever get is 190, although that's a lot, it would only be true for a single attack. After that hit it would be recalculated to a lower value, You would get very few hits at high damage.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#13  February 14, 2009, 01:42:17 am
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okay guys, I appreciate your responses, I "fixed" & have been testing the grudge bonus...

it insta-kills with a light punch at ctrl/F2

but for some whacked out reason It doesn't seem to be counting the part of the code that's supposed to prevent it from doing negative damage:

Code:
[state -2]
type = varset
trigger1 = var(10)<0
var(0) = 0
ignorehitpause=1

Meaning, if the foe has less health than the "tonberry" (although at this point it's a filler kung fu man) will HEAL the foe...

so I set the divide by parameters from 10 to 100... and the damage is STILL insane at ctrl/F2

seriously what the hell?



standard attacks at 190 atk

grudge bonus turned off, attack power set to 190, the normal attacks are actually quite tame (light attacks don't go anywhere near the triple digit range).


and for info's sake, the highest damaging level 1 super the tonberry will have will be a standalone super that does 250 dmg minimally, at maximum grudge power it'd be boosted to 450; that is, not including the falloff from both the draining grudge bonus AND damage dampeners.


so yeah, I am still stuck. (don't except many responses in the coming few days; the flu decided to kick me in the throat this weekend)
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#14  February 14, 2009, 02:23:22 am
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Try my method. You'll like it cos it'll work. % of attack power will be more of a float than a solid integer result.

I did my math so badly back there. 90 damage+ at any time. Not 190. The difference at 1000-999 will still floor at 90 as there's not fully 10 HP difference there. You could change that if you want some extra, 1:5 That would get you a maximum total of 181


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#15  February 14, 2009, 05:49:41 am
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Code:
[state -2]
type = varset
trigger1 = var(10)<0
var(0) = 0
ignorehitpause=1


I honestly don't know why you changed it from var(10) to var(0).

Also Cyanide wouldn't that method still work with a targetlifeadd as well? Just to add damage instead of multiplying is actually a fairer code. I would do it the way Cyanide said but using a targetlifeadd with the correct triggers.
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#16  February 14, 2009, 06:26:06 am
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I'm not sure if attackmulset works on targetlifeadd. I know p2defmul in the superpause has an effect on lifeadds in custom states though.

Same piece of code for the targetlifeadd, value = -number-var(grudge)


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Re: Need some help regarding the core mechanics of a WIP I have Going (VERY LONG)
#17  February 14, 2009, 08:55:39 pm
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Code:
[state -2]
type = varset
trigger1 = var(10)<0
var(0) = 0
ignorehitpause=1


I honestly don't know why you changed it from var(10) to var(0).

Also Cyanide wouldn't that method still work with a targetlifeadd as well? Just to add damage instead of multiplying is actually a fairer code. I would do it the way Cyanide said but using a targetlifeadd with the correct triggers.


my head's not quite on straight, I blame my newbishness & the flu for it.