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Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS] (Read 40119 times)

Started by D.Magician, May 07, 2014, 07:41:11 pm
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Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#621  November 23, 2014, 01:26:57 pm
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Oh cool. You can share secret bases via QR codes.
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Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#622  November 23, 2014, 04:26:41 pm
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Holy shit I did not expect Wally to have his own battle theme and it being so rockin'.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#623  November 28, 2014, 03:22:25 pm
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Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#624  November 29, 2014, 09:28:34 am
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And the first casualty of ORAS OU is Mega Salamence:

Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/salamencite-is-now-banned-to-ubers.3523082/

Quote
After a month of testing, taking into account both our personal experience as players and the community input from this thread, the OU Council has unanimously decided that Mega Salamence should be immediately placed in Ubers.

The ORAS OU ladder and, starting from last week, the Standard OU ladder on Pokémon Showdown have led us to believe that Mega Salamence is simply too much for the OU tier and that its presence is actually hindering the development of the ORAS metagame.

Mega Salamence's unhealthy presence in the metagame can be summed up in 3 points:

1) Incredible physical bulk
By sheer stats, Mega Salamence is one of the sturdiest offensive Pokémon in the game. 95 / 130 / 90 defenses are exceptional for a sweeper and give Mega Salamence the possiblity to set up with impunity on a plethora of defensive and offensive Pokémon. Combine this with Intimidate and the fact that people often opt to invest in a lot of bulk (as Salamence does not need significant Attack investment to sweep against offense at +1) and it becomes immediately clear that both killing M-Salamence on the turn it comes in and revenge killing it after it has fainted an opposing Pokémon is no easy feat. In fact, Mega Salamence's physical defense is comparable to that of Skarmory.

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252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 260-308 (78.3 - 92.7%)
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 270-328 (81.3 - 98.7%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 187-222 (56.3 - 66.8%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 192-229 (57.8 - 68.9%)
-1 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 210-248 (63.2 - 74.6%)
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 265-312 (79.8 - 93.9%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 118-139 (35.5 - 41.8%)

As the above damage calculations prove, taking down M-Salamence is incredibly hard, even if it opts to not invest in bulk at all.

2) Stupidly powerful offensive presence
Mega Salamence receives a significant boost in both its offensive stats and Speed. With 145 / 120 offenses combined with Aerilate, 120 base Speed and an extremely large movepool, Mega Salamence is one of the most unpredictable and hard hitting sweepers in the game. No Pokémon outside of Eviolite Porygon-2 can safely switch into Mega Salamence.
A few damage calculations will show how easy it is for Mega Salamence to sweep/wallbreak against the vast majority of the OU metagame:

Quote
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 159-187 (45.1 - 53.1%)
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 283-334 (71.1 - 83.9%)
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Mega Scizor: 160-190 (46.6 - 55.3%)
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 237-279 (58.6 - 69%)
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 214-253 (72 - 85.1%)
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 219-258 (66.1 - 77.9%)
252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 218-258 (54 - 64%)
4 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 248-292 (74.2 - 87.4%)
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 306-360 (72.8 - 85.7%)
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 244 HP / 28+ Def Gliscor: 259-306 (73.5 - 86.9%)
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 237-279 (79.2 - 93.3%)
-1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Landorus-T: 157-186 (41 - 48.6%)

While its most common set (Substitute / Roost / Dragon Dance / Return) can be walled by Skarmory, Heatran, Zapdos and defensive Rotom-W (assuming it has Hidden Power Ice), all of the aforementioned Pokémon can be defeated with the appropriate move. For instance, Mega Salamence can use Fire Blast for Skarmory, Earthquake for Heatran and Outrage/Draco Meteor for Rotom. On top of that, Mega Salamence can run many other sets such as: Sub Dragon Dance 2 attacks, Roost 3 attacks, Dragon Dance 3 attacks, Dragon Dance Roost 2 attacks, Dragon Dance Refresh, fully Special, and so on, which are all viable. While they are not equally as effective as the most common set, this means that there is no surefire counter to Mega Salamence. While the same can be said for other offensive OU powerhouses, none of them have the same combination of offensive presence, staying power and Speed as Mega Salamence. In the end, it's safe to say that Mega Salamence’s presence in the Overused tier simply overshadows the worth of using other Megas.

3) Centralization and negative effects on team building
For the reasons listed in the above two paragraphs, every team has to overprepare to "counter" Mega Salamence. The amount of teams that run obscure and niche counters/revenge killers on the ladder is impressive. People are forced to run defensive Porygon-2, HP Ice Rotom-W, defensive Zapdos and Cresselia in order to deal with the threat that Mega Salamence represents. On top of that, none of these Pokémon are exactly viable on offensive teams, meaning that said teams are either forced to run gimmicks such as Choice Scarf Greninja in order to revenge kill Mega Salamence or to completely twist their structure and sacrifice a Pokémon slot to carry a dedicated answer to it.

While we aren't directly using the 4th Generation suspect characteristics anymore in order to address bans, they still provide a reliable framework to assess the situation. By looking at the Offensive Characteristic:

Quote
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

it's easy to notice how Mega Salamence perfectly fits this definition.
Nonetheless, Mega Salamence also falls under the Support Characteristic:

Quote
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.

Considering that it can easily eliminate or severely weaken common defensive cores, this makes it easy for other Pokémon (such as Talonflame) to sweep even teams that are prepared to handle the so called "bird spam" strategies.

For all the reasons listed above, the OU Council has decided to place Mega Salamence in Ubers with immediate effect.



Now onto the Greninja suspect test...

<<-- Updated 09/14/14

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#625  November 29, 2014, 11:58:53 pm
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<<-- Updated 09/14/14

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#626  November 30, 2014, 12:11:33 am
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800 base stats. Damn Rayquaza! I guess he was too uber for ubers.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#627  November 30, 2014, 12:21:37 am
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Anythinggoes.png

<<-- Updated 09/14/14

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#628  November 30, 2014, 01:44:20 am
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Instead of wrecking ubers, it got Smogon to make ubers an actual tier...

Thank you Mega Rayquaza. I can't believe I just said that.

I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#629  November 30, 2014, 02:10:22 am
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We Gen 1 again.  Welcome back RBY Mewtwo successor.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#630  November 30, 2014, 02:39:55 am
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OMG, THIS IS ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!! HOLY SHIT! Ubers quickbanning something?!! About damn time! Great news, I truly like this.

Anything goes, son. Arpa, time to moody spam.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#631  December 08, 2014, 01:13:14 pm
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So this is the official timeline apparently.



It's everything we already know except for XY happening at the same time as B2W2. There has never been any reference to it in XY.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#632  December 09, 2014, 05:59:12 am
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After Delta Episode.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Most likely the follow up to XY would tell a bit about taking place in the same time era as B2W2.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#633  December 15, 2014, 09:49:26 pm
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So the VGC 15 Ruleset has been released

Quote
Players may use Pokémon from the National Pokédex, from No. 001–719, that are caught in the game, transferred from a previous Pokémon title (e.g. X & Y), or received at an official event or distribution
Holy shit.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#634  December 16, 2014, 02:11:48 am
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I thought it was gonna be any but then I read further and discovered that Groudon and Rayquaza are banned.

Curses, I've been foiled once again.

I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#635  December 16, 2014, 05:24:29 am
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Oh god VGC 2013 now more crazy.

If this keeps going then VGC 2016 will allow everything just like in 2010.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#636  December 16, 2014, 12:59:34 pm
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Ffs, it's impossible to get proper pokemon from the GTS. I'm trying to get a Clauncher and I'm trading Skrelp for it (basically trading an exclusive for another), and after a day I still haven't got it. And when I check online the only thing I find is people asking for Diancies, Mew and other legendary crap for just a Clauncher. And in theory it's impossible to get event pokemon like Diancie using GTS, which is a pity because I missed the event (or rather my GAMES shop only gave that Shiny Gengar, which kinda annoys me).
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#637  December 16, 2014, 02:51:49 pm
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GTS in a nutshell.

That said, I did get two Zygarde for a Cyndaquil and a Piplup on Y. I don't even, but I used these two Zygarde to get every non-event legendary via GTS.
3DS FC: 0516 - 7483 - 3564
Oh, I want a diagram. I fucking love diagrams.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#638  December 16, 2014, 07:40:04 pm
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the way to a GTSers heart is to put a Scyther holding a metal coat up for trade

I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#639  December 16, 2014, 08:30:47 pm
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It may get to their heart, but it certainly won't get to my own one. If only you could choose to only allow trades of Pokemon that hold the item you want... Being able to at least choose gender is the only good thing, as I can get females for breeding, but there's still the problem of farming for the appropiate nature.
Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 09:00:49 pm by Nanashi_1337
Re: Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [3DS]
#640  December 17, 2014, 12:42:25 am
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But Wonder Trade is gdlk, don't forget that. Luckily I got a Chimchar w/ Iron Fist :3
What's even more hilarious is that I got a Thundurus. God bless X/Y's feature. Now if I ever had a Pokebank, I'd likely transfer it over to Omega Ruby to capture Landorus.