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Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine) (Read 244923 times)

Started by Makunouchi Ippo, September 25, 2013, 02:43:21 am
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Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#61  September 26, 2013, 08:07:50 am
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SF4 is not awesome.

I personally liked it. But I hear you.

Play Tekken 3.

Ironically, I did a little MAME action last night and I went through each Tekken. With that said, it'll be amazing to see how 3D characters are "ported" to this engine. And just as with how 3D characters are converted to 2D for Mugen, it'll be great to see what is cooked up for this. So yeah, this 3D Mugen is awesome possibility wise. Let's hope that everything we want comes to fruition. I know I'll ne checking this out on day 1 for sure!!

And did the creators make comments/suggest that Mugen was the catalyst for this??
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Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#62  September 26, 2013, 08:13:18 am
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Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#63  September 26, 2013, 08:22:54 am
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The issue I see with this thing is... well, animating the 3D Models. Most 3D fighters use motion capture with actual martial arts. I can't imagine trying to port a Tekken character over perfectly would go well... plus there's getting all the important frame data and collision data from the actual game.

It'll be like Fighter Maker but with more freedom.

But I still expect it to look like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dwfMkCg36U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cz6HJ7nI_c

Here is some useful resources for anyone to use. Tekken 1.0.1 know your frame data :D
http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/tekken-6-frame-data/
http://rbnorway.org/ttt2-frame-data/

If this engine is anything like mugen you should be able to translate the data in regard to (hit on block) and (hit on guard). You'll need to figure out which moves whiff and which connect when the right conditions are met.
Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 08:26:13 am by fofai
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#64  September 26, 2013, 08:28:48 am
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On a side note, has anyone tried to download this yet? (Registration required)]

Register on the website; ENG accounts do work for the JP page. Go back to the DL page (JP text only) and try again.

... those who have no prior experience.

I'm not going to get into details, but spriting is indeed harder (regardless of experience); I've tried my hand at both. With spriting, you're essentially making at least 500 different "models" (not even taking into account proper shading, the principles of animation, etc...). With modeling, you do the artwork once, and basically the rest is mathematics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cz6HJ7nI_c

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Yeah, it'll be years before anything truly good comes out.
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Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#65  September 26, 2013, 08:40:42 am
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I'm not going to get into details, but spriting is indeed harder (regardless of experience); I've tried my hand at both. With spriting, you're essentially making at least 500 different "models" (not even taking into account proper shading, the principles of animation, etc...). With modeling, you do the artwork once, and basically the rest is mathematics.

Spriting is more "tedious" work not harder. Secondly you are not making 500 different models you are using less then half the detail a model includes. You are essentially drawing the same figure over and over again taking into account light source, shadow whilst insuring overall continuity very tedious but not so hard in my experience. But thats my experience and my subjective view.

Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#66  September 26, 2013, 09:03:54 am
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I was being generous when I said that. :P

Professional quality animation (with a variety of moves) can be anywhere in between 800-2000 sprites (double those numbers to avoid the ambidextrous sprite issue that 3D doesn't have). This is not taking into account the resolution that's being used; spites these days have to be done in 480p at the very least & with correct proportions (SFII sized sprites aren't enough in today's generation of video games). I have nothing but respect for committed sprite artists, what they do is more tedious and harder than what 3D allows you to do, regardless of resolution.

Model detail varies on art direction. Also, model shading is rendered (3D) instead of dotted from every pixel (from the 1000+ sprites I mentioned).

Which of the two sounds harder?
Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 09:15:36 am by Niitris
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#67  September 26, 2013, 09:40:53 am
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It's harder to learn because drawing can be nothing more than aligning pixels and it's easy to get the concept, but it's much harder to keep drawing with the same consistency once you have a good base than it is to animate once you have a good model. Don't be picky about the choice of word between tedious and hard, you get the idea.
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Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#68  September 26, 2013, 10:01:28 am
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You see heres my gripe. These are all points that contribute to the length of time it takes. None of these factors "really" challenge you on a cognitive level. I define hard as being something that can challenge you on either a physical or cognitive level. 3d design does both . Spriting is relatively straight forward once you have figured out the key aspects that pertains to spriting. Light source, shadow direction and overall continuity. There aren't too many unalateral dynamics to take into account with reference to spriting that isn't also involved in 3d design. Animations the principles are the same just executed differently. Like you I have nothing but respect to spriters but it doesn't really challenge me that much. It's a seemingly straight forward, routine based workflow like most other everyday repetitive manual tasks. Tedius but not that challenging.

Heres the angle I'm coming from. Before you even dip your toes in the water in regard to modelling you must first of all familiarize yourself with the interface of the 3d software alone. Doesnt really matter which software in particular you use or which one is higher on the pecking order. The principles remain the same universally. There is no button that says "rigg my model or paint my weights" or "UV map my model from in x,y,z. Each one of these parameters have a steep learning curve. We haven't even started modelling yet. 3D design also encourages you to work outside of the software also and dive into third party softwares like photoshop. I don't want to exhibit all the details and ramble on too much here as I could go on for centuries as to why 3d modelling is more challenging than spriting.

spriting and modelling are 2 seperate sciences I just find a repetitve task like spriting more tedious then overwhelmingly challenging like strategically stacking a house of cards. Thats my opinion on the matter.
Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 10:04:45 am by fofai
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#69  September 26, 2013, 10:30:23 am
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Each one of these parameters have a steep learning curve.
Just like drawing and certain spriting and animation techniques, so...
What people are trying to make you understand here is that more often than not, spriters get burned out of the extremely repetitive task of spriting the same thing over and over (And you make it sound like spriting the rest is not a big deal as long as you're done with the first sprite), with a model is more than a repetitive task, it's yes, modeling, taking care of your edgeflow, checking your smoothing groups, UV mapping, taking care of seams, texturing, rigging and painting weights (With additional steps if you want to refine your model), we're not saying it's a simple process, but it's less repetitive and tedious and people are less likely to get burned out of working on it.

And UV mapping a model isn't nearly as complex as you're making it sound., same for using third party software, I assure you that everyone is already used to doing that.
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#70  September 26, 2013, 10:44:12 am
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And with that being said I'm going to conclude and with no disrespect, that you probably aren't a 3d artist more of a casual admirrer and end this debate here. I hope you don't take it the wrong way this is just me putting a lid on this subjective matter.


And you're wrong by the way.
#71  September 26, 2013, 10:58:48 am
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Nice jab! Thanks for the insightful counterpoints, good debate chump. If you think that four years of a Game Art and Design makes me a casual "admirrer" then so be it.

Then again, "thats just my opinion on the matter."
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#72  September 26, 2013, 11:05:49 am
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Nice jab! Thanks for the insightful counterpoints, good debate chump. If you think that four years of a Game Art and Design makes me a casual "admirrer" then so be it.

Then again, "thats just my opinion on the matter."

Come on dude, It wasn't a jab. I made an assumption based on your statements and took a educated guess. You come across as somebody that has knowledge of 3d creation based on an outside perspective. Like someone looking from the outside in as opposed to somebody on the inside.

You can continue this through pm if you like but not here please. 
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#73  September 26, 2013, 01:55:27 pm
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#74  September 26, 2013, 02:09:52 pm
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Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 04:40:07 pm by Alex Sinigaglia
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#75  September 26, 2013, 02:12:24 pm
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Fun fact: I can't remain silent about problems of M.U.G.E.N, or the entire Gameworld, but i can't say about them without it turning into shitpost.


Akuma: Akuma Yuiko! *grabs Andy with SGS* Isshun Sengeki! *starts relentlessy beating Andy*
Andy: Ahhahhahhahahha!!!
Get out of here! V2
#76  September 26, 2013, 02:13:51 pm
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Please, visit my thread in Idea Engineering!



Anyone? Anybody?
STOP IT!

You're linking to your Idea Engineering topic in a topic that has nothing to do with it! Do you realize that?
Either you wait for someone to help you with that, or if you don't have any you have to deal with it.
Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 04:40:16 pm by Alex Sinigaglia
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#77  September 26, 2013, 02:16:01 pm
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Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#78  September 26, 2013, 03:04:17 pm
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not really familiar with how it works, but is using the million mmd models out there for this plausible?

edit: found an answer
Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 07:55:28 pm by c001357
Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#79  September 26, 2013, 04:26:43 pm
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Re: Project EF-12 (a free customizable 3D fighting game engine)
#80  September 26, 2013, 06:44:04 pm
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