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Saisyu Released! (Read 21152 times)

Started by Lurker, January 15, 2014, 08:21:46 pm
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Re: Saisyu Released!
#21  January 16, 2014, 11:39:13 am
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But listen to feedback like he is doing is the right way to become a great creator!!


Re: Saisyu Released!
#22  January 16, 2014, 03:56:58 pm
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Re: Saisyu Released!
#23  January 16, 2014, 06:25:59 pm
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If anything else, I'd recommend downloading mugens top 3 Saisyu's, and at the very least studying the way way the work, the way their moves come out and effect opponents, damage the whole 9 yards ... and try to implement that into yours.  Saying that if getting actual game data isn't easy for you.  Nobody is trying bash ya on here man, they just want to see your character improve ... I'd call him a beta still, and collect all the feedback you can and work as much as possible to improve him.
Re: Saisyu Released!
#24  January 16, 2014, 07:53:51 pm
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If anything else, I'd recommend downloading mugens top 3 Saisyu's, and at the very least studying the way way the work
NO. Do not trust mugen conversions. You should always use the actual games as basis for comparisons instead of other people's MUGEN conversions. Never, ever trust how other people did a particular character in MUGEN.
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Re: Saisyu Released!
#25  January 16, 2014, 08:23:05 pm
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Do note that he said else as opposed to simply JUST doing that. I don't think anyone would base their stuff accurately off of MUGEN. Honestly though a good Saisyu is a good reference for how moves should be CONVERTED into MUGEN, especially if it's accurate(Vans). Due to differences in KOF screen resolution and all. But yeah play him in 98 first.

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Re: Saisyu Released!
#26  January 16, 2014, 08:37:25 pm
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Yeah I said if he didn't have access meaning if anything Thad be his second best option ...
Re: Saisyu Released!
#27  January 16, 2014, 08:52:34 pm
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A Pots style Saisyu? GTFO. I gotta test this!!!!!!
Do you know what GTFO means?
It means "Get the fuck out". Are you telling others to go away? :???:

Maybe I'll give feedback later on this, but I'm no expert and most if not all things are already covered by Vans and the others.

I found something:
- QCB, y is as strong as QCB,z;
- back dash is kind of useless right now, being that short (I could just use the roll to go backward) but that was already pointed out.
Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 09:11:38 pm by Alex Sinigaglia
Re: Saisyu Released!
#28  January 16, 2014, 09:19:02 pm
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in defense to the "gtfo" its a way of saying oh "get out of here" but it means something positive like "I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS". Weird I know just saying.

You'll fix chuchoryu ? Sounds like a plan. How about you code him from scratch instead ?
Re: Saisyu Released!
#29  January 17, 2014, 06:02:13 am
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Dunno if this was pointed out but because EX HCB kick was coded as a grab you can't even dodge roll past it because he hits you anyway despite that in source you could dodge past it just fine (it was one of Kyo's moves BTW). In source it began with an elbow strike that wasn't coded as a grab hence you could dodge it otherwise it would be way too good.
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Re: Saisyu Released!
#30  January 19, 2014, 02:23:59 pm
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Ya I had a feeling about this, thats why I posted that combo/tutorial video on Saisyu....  Look you got a huge character that everyone loves so making him will not be easy at all but on the positive side your learning... I'm sure p.o.t.s wasn't born pots so you gotta pull it out of you. GJ so far and GL
Re: Saisyu Released!
#31  January 19, 2014, 09:34:55 pm
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I'm also under the impression that people keep neglecting data from the game, do you guys know how PotS made his original characters? He actually studied every single game he referenced, down to the core. Doing this properly requires understanding how the original system was made, not just winging it.

Not him, but if I were to go through the effort and study how a character worked in a game, including performing program disassemblies, I wouldn't even bother with MUGEN.  Hell, I'd rather fulfill my dream of making my very own Neo Geo game if that was the case.

MUGEN programming is to real programming as to what Penn and Teller's Desert Bus is to Racing.
Re: Saisyu Released!
#32  January 20, 2014, 08:32:22 am
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Cool story bro.
Re: Saisyu Released!
#33  January 20, 2014, 09:25:52 am
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Not him, but if I were to go through the effort and study how a character worked in a game, including performing program disassemblies, I wouldn't even bother with MUGEN.  Hell, I'd rather fulfill my dream of making my very own Neo Geo game if that was the case.

MUGEN programming is to real programming as to what Penn and Teller's Desert Bus is to Racing.

I'll be waiting patiently for your NeoGeo game, MVS version plz.
Re: Saisyu Released!
#34  January 20, 2014, 09:36:43 am
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I find people like him funny. It says to not even bother with mugen for recollecting data for any character yet he comes to a mugen forum to say that. Fascinating.
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Re: Saisyu Released!
#35  January 20, 2014, 11:14:38 am
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I find people like him funny. It says to not even bother with mugen for recollecting data for any character yet he comes to a mugen forum to say that. Fascinating.

People like that just want to get a rise out of someone, he can take his dickish words and fuckin leave ...
Re: Saisyu Released!
#36  January 20, 2014, 07:47:44 pm
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I'm not being a dick, I'm just stating the obvious.  Most of the people who made MUGEN stuff have almost no programming background, and I say most, I mean EVERYONE who has contributed, be it PotS or those people who tack on MKvSF hitsparks and screw up the combo system of Mortal Kombat characters.  It's kinda like the whole theory on how the N64 was developed; since it would be tricky to use, that would require serious effort from the developers, thus minimizing the amount of trash.  Unfortunately for Nintendo, the N64 has neither quality or quantity.  :)

In short, if this guy was a programming genius, he would been able to do a better job than what he did here.

@Vans:  Your life's work seems to be based entirely on disassembling Neo Geo games, so you should do it.  I personally have no interest in consoles that were only successful in countries that didn't matter.  :)
Re: Saisyu Released!
#37  January 20, 2014, 07:54:09 pm
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Re: Saisyu Released!
#38  January 20, 2014, 08:05:53 pm
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But it's not about being a genius, it's about doing your homework.

Not him, but if I were to go through the effort and study how a character worked in a game, including performing program disassemblies, I wouldn't even bother with MUGEN.  Hell, I'd rather fulfill my dream of making my very own Neo Geo game if that was the case.

To paraphrase: If you put more time into studying, you would have the knowledge to make stuff for commercial hardware.

I've released characters... looking back (knowing more now), they were garbage. I've done extensive research over the past few weeks, and now know where they need improvement.

some cheapshot.

Was that really necessary? :-\
Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 08:13:02 pm by Niitris
Re: Saisyu Released!
#39  January 20, 2014, 08:36:04 pm
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I'm not being a dick, I'm just stating the obvious.  Most of the people who made MUGEN stuff have almost no programming background, and I say most, I mean EVERYONE who has contributed, be it PotS or those people who tack on MKvSF hitsparks and screw up the combo system of Mortal Kombat characters.  It's kinda like the whole theory on how the N64 was developed; since it would be tricky to use, that would require serious effort from the developers, thus minimizing the amount of trash.  Unfortunately for Nintendo, the N64 has neither quality or quantity.  :)

In short, if this guy was a programming genius, he would been able to do a better job than what he did here.

Getting velocities, damage, framecount, axis and collision boxes from the source game does not turn you into a genius. You're being particularly an idiot for trying to shoot people down for telling somebody to track down more info that's actually necessary to create a character conversion (It's like coding a Ryu for mugen, but using Guile's spritesheet instead. Sprites aren't the only thing that makes a character).

Sorry for being so blunt but you're just being plain stupid. You're not stating anything obvious. The obvious thing would be to get as much data as you can from the character you're trying to code and THEN apply it to your project and do any tweaks you want and specify that you've done them on purpose to not to confuse your testers.

Remember that MUGEN is a hobby and it does have easy coding, that's the entire point of it to begin with. You don't need programming background but how's that even remotely relevant when you don't need such background to get what you need as well? I can't code shit via C++ and even I could get all the info I want with just artmoney and kawaks + a KOF ROM. It's that easy, there's just no excuse. Guides are everywhere, heck, Vans uploaded the tables you would need to use in artmoney, you don't even need to manually find the correct values.

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Re: Saisyu Released!
#40  January 20, 2014, 08:42:23 pm
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Saisyu could use some improvement with the bugs listed, but I think for this guy's first time making a character play this way, he didn't do too bad.

Everyone can't get it right off the bat the first time around, or even the 2nd or 3rd....

If you have the knowledge to help, then why not help the guy out, list the bugs and encourage.... All the other unnecessary comments aren't going to help make the character play any better...

Some creators have released numerous characters in the past and when they did, they didn't play like accurate source. It took time and effort for them to finally find out what works and what doesn't to get their characters playing how they should play.

Different people have different techniques as to achieving this. Some go the route of getting source game play data, some improve over time with release after release....We all learn differently.....

Keep in mind that, at one point some of us were new to mugen and we didn't always have the knowledge as some of the pros do now. Heck I've been doing stuff since '07 and I'm still learning.

Not knocking anyone that doesn't code mugen characters at all, but I give most people (not all) some kind of credit for at least taking the time to try and make something for mugen, because there are still a lot of people who don't know how to make anything for mugen, nor do they care to. It doesn't mean that just because they make something automatically I say +1, but keep in mind that what they made may be not so great now, but months or years down the road they can become one of the best creators we have in mugen. And there are people at mugen guild right now that are prime examples of this.


Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 08:46:05 pm by ~R@CE AKIR@~