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Standard Competitive Roster Speculation (Read 3613 times)

Started by BaffleBlend, March 16, 2014, 01:46:09 pm
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Standard Competitive Roster Speculation
#1  March 16, 2014, 01:46:09 pm
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The OP is out of date and is being cleaned up.

So, we all know a lot of fighting game fans don't take M.U.G.E.N seriously because of how much Sturgeon's Law applies. So what if we got together and looked at speculating a gold-standard roster, one that can even possibly evolve into a competitive metagame?

Obviously, we wouldn't be distributing the characters within it. We just speculate based on their abilities and sort them.

Would this be a good idea, or even possible, do you think?

I already use the Winmugen Screenpack Selector to separate my "all-out funfest" roster and the roster with just characters that have some depth to them. I don't think this would be too far of a stretch.

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I think for a system like this to work, there would have to be separate classes of rosters to standardize. There are so many mechanical styles in this game that there can be no one unified roster - one will have advantage over others not for being better characters, but for having a conflicting style. So, this will be divided into blocks based on similar style and mechanics.

Of course, this is all just speculation for now and I'm just throwing out examples.

Spoiler: Gamma Roster v.0.00001 (click to see content)

Spoiler: Alpha Roster v.0.00001 (click to see content)

Spoiler: Fundamental Roster v.0.00002 (click to see content)
--͢-̀---͢-̨-͞-̶͟---҉̴̕--̸̵-̛-̵̛̛́͝-͟͜͞͡-̴̨-͏̧-̷́͜-̴̕͢͞͡

--҉-̕----̨-̀͟͠-́̕-̢͘͠-̛͢-̡̕-̨͡-̴-̡͘͜͡-͘͞-̷̛-̵͏̴͘͢-̴̨͘̕-͟҉̶͟-̨͟͝͡
Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 12:15:39 am by BaffleBlend
Re: Standard Competitive Roster Speculation
#2  March 16, 2014, 04:48:00 pm
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You cannot have tiering and balance in a general MUGEN. It doesnt even come down to strength or comboability but the variety of system and tech. The reason the FGC does npt take MUGEN seriously is they see it as a game and not an engine. You are making that same critical mistake. To have balance you need to move to the fullgame environment. Otherwise there is no competitive merit to MUGEN at all. Even with those Ikemen sets, its just a compilation of random pots styled chars, most with different systems.
Re: Standard Competitive Roster Speculation
#3  March 16, 2014, 04:52:56 pm
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You cannot have tiering and balance in a general MUGEN. It doesnt even come down to strength or comboability but the variety of system and tech. The reason the FGC does npt take MUGEN seriously is they see it as a game and not an engine. You are making that same critical mistake. To have balance you need to move to the fullgame environment. Otherwise there is no competitive merit to MUGEN at all. Even with those Ikemen sets, its just a compilation of random pots styled chars, most with different systems.


I just thought it would be enjoyable to try sorting characters of similar styles and systems together. It's something I already try to do. Even characters from vastly different areas can flow together well if they have similar systems, like with the current preliminary Über roster - matches between Harmir and Ronald McDonald can be pretty entertaining.

With so many "isolated" characters that don't have a place in any full game, I just though it might be fun to try.
--͢-̀---͢-̨-͞-̶͟---҉̴̕--̸̵-̛-̵̛̛́͝-͟͜͞͡-̴̨-͏̧-̷́͜-̴̕͢͞͡

--҉-̕----̨-̀͟͠-́̕-̢͘͠-̛͢-̡̕-̨͡-̴-̡͘͜͡-͘͞-̷̛-̵͏̴͘͢-̴̨͘̕-͟҉̶͟-̨͟͝͡
Re: Standard Competitive Roster Speculation
#4  March 16, 2014, 04:56:13 pm
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Well then its for fun yeah, no problem. But there is no competitive aspect. Also a blanket "balance roster" is hard to achieve. There are too many standards of what balance is from game to game
Re: Standard Competitive Roster Speculation
#5  March 16, 2014, 05:01:04 pm
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Well then its for fun yeah, no problem. But there is no competitive aspect. Also a blanket "balance roster" is hard to achieve. There are too many standards of what balance is from game to game

That is true.
I use the Winmugen Screenpack Selector to separate the systems (I am so thankful that it works even if you just copy and rename Mugen 1.0's exe to "winmugen"), and that's why I opened a speculation thread about it instead of just keeping it all to myself. I'm a relative newcomer to intensive fighting games, and I still don't quite know for sure just where the separator lines lie. :p

I know for a fact that the current tier-naming system is innacurate. Übers have advantages over Standards due to their differing styles, not because they're better characters. So I'll have to come up with other names, too.
--͢-̀---͢-̨-͞-̶͟---҉̴̕--̸̵-̛-̵̛̛́͝-͟͜͞͡-̴̨-͏̧-̷́͜-̴̕͢͞͡

--҉-̕----̨-̀͟͠-́̕-̢͘͠-̛͢-̡̕-̨͡-̴-̡͘͜͡-͘͞-̷̛-̵͏̴͘͢-̴̨͘̕-͟҉̶͟-̨͟͝͡
Re: Standard Competitive Roster Speculation
#6  March 16, 2014, 05:05:36 pm
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Where are you getting this tiering data from? Just watch mode?
Re: Standard Competitive Roster Speculation
#7  March 16, 2014, 05:09:20 pm
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Where are you getting this tiering data from? Just watch mode?

No. I've looked at reviews and general opinions - Dragon Claw was known for having insanely broken combos (he was the base for the tier), and Teaf's ensemble was often compared to him. I haven't included any characters based on their AI because I really wouldn't know what I was talking about.
--͢-̀---͢-̨-͞-̶͟---҉̴̕--̸̵-̛-̵̛̛́͝-͟͜͞͡-̴̨-͏̧-̷́͜-̴̕͢͞͡

--҉-̕----̨-̀͟͠-́̕-̢͘͠-̛͢-̡̕-̨͡-̴-̡͘͜͡-͘͞-̷̛-̵͏̴͘͢-̴̨͘̕-͟҉̶͟-̨͟͝͡
Re: Standard Competitive Roster Speculation
#8  March 16, 2014, 05:35:19 pm
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Proper tiering has to do with specific matchups, so its impossible to get accurate or even consustent. I'm glad you arent doing based on watch mode, its a mistake I used to make.
Re: Standard Competitive Roster Speculation
#9  March 16, 2014, 06:43:54 pm
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Proper tiering has to do with specific matchups, so its impossible to get accurate or even consustent. I'm glad you arent doing based on watch mode, its a mistake I used to make.

Well, I can still try. I'm analyzing my characters right now, looking for patterns and even finding some.

And yeah, I know better than that. :p AI's fine for sorting Arcade fight orders, but not ranking a charcter's worth. Otherwise, F1 would be THE BEST CHARACTER EVER and all that.
--͢-̀---͢-̨-͞-̶͟---҉̴̕--̸̵-̛-̵̛̛́͝-͟͜͞͡-̴̨-͏̧-̷́͜-̴̕͢͞͡

--҉-̕----̨-̀͟͠-́̕-̢͘͠-̛͢-̡̕-̨͡-̴-̡͘͜͡-͘͞-̷̛-̵͏̴͘͢-̴̨͘̕-͟҉̶͟-̨͟͝͡
Re: Standard Competitive Roster Speculation
#10  March 17, 2014, 01:19:34 pm
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Like many people here, I do think that trying to make any meta/tourney sense out of MUGEN is a fool's errand. But if you are so dead set on its completion, then good luck.
Hug the Pikachus!

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Re: Standard Competitive Roster Speculation
#11  March 17, 2014, 06:19:02 pm
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Like many people here, I do think that trying to make any meta/tourney sense out of MUGEN is a fool's errand. But if you are so dead set on its completion, then good luck.

Hey, who says I'm not a fool?
--͢-̀---͢-̨-͞-̶͟---҉̴̕--̸̵-̛-̵̛̛́͝-͟͜͞͡-̴̨-͏̧-̷́͜-̴̕͢͞͡

--҉-̕----̨-̀͟͠-́̕-̢͘͠-̛͢-̡̕-̨͡-̴-̡͘͜͡-͘͞-̷̛-̵͏̴͘͢-̴̨͘̕-͟҉̶͟-̨͟͝͡