Baiken said, September 25, 2007, 04:18:03 amThat's not really relevant. Simple as Mugen coding might be, the process is still the same.Yes it is, but the things you can do with it are much more limited, and attacks are extremely recurring unlike C++. and even in C++, people learn from c&p at the beginning
To clear up a detail : I don't mind copy-pasting in itself. I mind the result (edit - including regarding the person doing it). Some people might've thought I was fully teaming up with certain others even though I'm pretty certain I never fully stated my personnal opinion on all this shit.
CCI Walachia said, September 25, 2007, 06:09:17 amBut even if you draw your own sprites and make your own code people will still do whatever they want with them because once it's relesed on the internet it belongs to everyone except you. If your designings are legally binding and you have strong feelings of protecting them at all costs, you either sue or don't release them (at least for mugen, create your own engine). Simple.
The impossibility of stoping something doesn't make it right. Other people's stupidity should theorically not be a reason to stop from doing things you like. What you're saying really sounds like what would say those who try to find excuses for stealing and desecrating and so, the "lol you can't stop me, what ya gonna do, sue me" type.
Baiken said, September 25, 2007, 05:14:50 pmThe impossibility of stoping something doesn't make it right. Other people's stupidity should theorically not be a reason to stop from doing things you like. What you're saying really sounds like what would say those who try to find excuses for stealing and desecrating and so, the "lol you can't stop me, what ya gonna do, sue me" type.Like I said, if a mugen author has second opinions about his "creations" being ripped off, why bother coding for MUGEN? It's inevitable of chars getting raped in the mugen world. Why not go legit and start coding for real....and by real, I mean start learning the C/C++ languages.The MUGEN engine has it's share of problems, but coding for it can be ridiculously easy if you apply coding skills from top-shell languages. meh....I'm rambling. In short, design creations for MUGEN if you don't plan to make some type of future out of them. Otherwise get a bachelor's degree in computer science and take your homebrew amateur skills to a new plane....(...just think of the ironic paradox of working for a third-party company like Capcom, designing characters for a particular fighting game, and taking a trip down memory lane on your lunchbreak by revisiting the mugenguild only to stumble among an author ripping YOUR stuff... )
Question, why do you keep pitting more regular languages in Mugen matters ? It's totally useless, and, well, pretty much stupid to base all your argument on saying that Mugen coding sucks compared to C++ and so : we're talking about a community here, not about coding. It's completely unrelated to try to sound like a computer science veteran. A number of those who code on Mugen already do regular coding (I do, Bia does, Messatsu does, Dark Saviour does, [E] does...)
CCI Walachia said, September 25, 2007, 06:09:17 am...once it's relesed on the internet it belongs to everyone except you. Tell that to the RIAA.
#Shaun said, September 25, 2007, 06:16:26 pmLike I said, if a mugen author has second opinions about his "creations" being ripped off, why bother coding for MUGEN? It's inevitable of chars getting raped in the mugen world. Why not go legit and start coding for real....and by real, I mean start learning the C/C++ languages.Because I'm spending enough time drawing the sprites, sequencing the music, and designing the gameplay (in terms of how the end result functions), so I don't want to spend more time learning tedious programming to put it all together.
QuoteIt only marks a mugen author as an advance amateur until he steps in the ring of C++.I don't really see the difference. Mugen protects you from a lot of C's pitfalls by limiting a number of CS type stuff one might do. The really complicated stuff in Mugen is harder to do in C++ because you're not allowed a (or creating one anyway) straight-forward way of accomplishing it. You have to work within the limits of the language. A lot of the things I've tried to do in Mugen that I know are possible, but are really difficult to do, I wouldn't hand over to a C++ fighter and expect them to be able to do it.
Baiken said, September 25, 2007, 10:18:34 pmQuestion, why do you keep pitting more regular languages in Mugen matters ? It's totally useless, and, well, pretty much stupid to base all your argument on saying that Mugen coding sucks compared to C++ and so : we're talking about a community here, not about coding. It's completely unrelated to try to sound like a computer science veteran. A number of those who code on Mugen already do regular coding (I do, Bia does, Messatsu does, Dark Saviour does, [E] does...) ??? I don't recall saying MUGEN coding sucks compared to C++ , nor am I trying to be a coding vet, buddy(which I am definitely not).What I'm saying is mugen has limits in its coding, but is limitless in accessibility. There is a huge difference designing/programming creations for the mugen engine and designing/programming for something else.....and the difference is that anyone can access what you release in the mugen world (anyone with half a brain for that matter). It's much easier to learn and decipher than C++ (and further more, more accessible). If the people who download your stuff know how to code and want to do something immoral, they can and will. Legitimizing your stuff within in a language not completely open-source for all to see is how one can lessen the stress of having your creations stolen. I'm willing to bet there are more people in the mugen community who can recognize/hack code for mugen creations Quotewe're talking about a community here, not about coding. It's completely unrelated to try to sound like a computer science veteran. This topic's caption is about "stealing" creations, right? If your coding/designing effort is put into an easily obtainable resource such as mugen, don't say no one warned ya about the dangers that come with it. I know this isn't just limited to mugen, but it is probably the easiest to grasp.....I'm rambling yet again. I guess the thing is, I see a hell of a lot of effort from authors put into their chars in the community. While I'm glad I see people pushing the limits (teaches me a lot I know that) it's practically pointless to bitch and moan about legitimacy in an area that has no real legitimacy. ....and yet, this could all be bullshit. Agree or disagree. I don't care. I've made my point somewhere in all that rambling.::back to debugging::
QuoteThis topic's caption is about "stealing" creations, right? If your coding/designing effort is put into an easily obtainable resource such as mugen, don't say no one warned ya about the dangers that come with it. I know this isn't just limited to mugen, but it is probably the easiest to grasp.=>QuoteThe impossibility of stoping something doesn't make it right. Other people's stupidity should theorically not be a reason to stop from doing things you like. What you're saying really sounds like what would say those who try to find excuses for stealing and desecrating and so, the "lol you can't stop me, what ya gonna do, sue me" type.I already addressed that, "buddy". Nobody is saying we weren't warned about the dangers of it.People don't bitch and moan about the legitimacy of things. People bitch and moan about others not sharing their pokemans, get your facts straight.
This has sadly turned into a battlefield for the pro-"righteous".Maybe it should be locked.@OP, don't use words like "stealing"stealing is wrong, and borrowing code/sprite is no longer considered as "stealing"
Blade Art said, September 28, 2007, 03:46:41 pmThis has sadly turned into a battlefield for the pro-"righteous".Maybe it should be locked.Because people are saying things contrary to your view of "It's over! We won!"?Quote@OP, don't use words like "stealing"stealing is wrong, and borrowing code/sprite is no longer considered as "stealing"In fact it is still regarded as stealing by a huge part of this forum, and another large part regards it as theft still if credit is not at least given. Not to mention perhaps he'd rather not be on edge with the rest of the mugen community and would hope for a middle ground he can utilize.Mind you too there's little need for your post in this whole mess, and if you can't contribute anything that another attempt at being a moderator then just be quiet Cobra.As for the actual topic, the "risks" are things we are all aware of, even other communities. Regardless people expect some decorum from their fellow members to not stab them in the back if they've made a stance clear. This isn't like the early days of mugen where there was no documentation to use and people learned off each other: there's plenty of resources and help, as well as a slew of open source material.In other words there's no need to steal, just someone making a choice to take a shortcut. Just because you can take that shortcut though doesn't make that right, and you have to look at the situation from all sides, including the person you're taking stuff from, and realize he might have his own reasons for wanting rights over his work, and hopefully respect them.There's never ever been a question of if you can or can not do anything. SFO can screw us and Capcom over for example: does that make them justified?An even better point is to keep in mind you may very well run into these folks you took from elsewhere online, or worse need their assistance with something, and you really want to contend with them being legitimately sore with you because you "showed them how wrong their points were"? (Not a quote of you there, just something that has been said before though and does jive with the whole "stealing: so what?" mentality :\)
QuoteThis has sadly turned into a battlefield for the pro-"righteous".Obviously when a topic is meant to state and discuss one's opinions about stealing, there are going to be... discussions. Or do you hate that everyone isn't favoring your little lie of a propaganda ? You need to barge in to not add anything worthy, as usual, and request for a lock for no reason. And as usual, you'll then claim you haven't been doing any flamebait.Quotedon't use words like "stealing"Sure On ne dit pas aveugle, on dit non-voyant.Quoteand borrowing code/sprite is no longer considered as "stealing"Borrowing code/sprites has never been considered theft, but obviously you don't even know what it is that people have been talking about all this time. Hell, obviously you didn't even read the topic, judging by your first sentence. Come on, it's not that hard, we're only on page 2 ! We haven't brought the topic to 140 pages yet.Oh, and I thought I heard that you were supposed to behave.
Baiken said, September 28, 2007, 05:15:01 pmObviously when a topic is meant to state and discuss one's opinions about stealing"Obviously" mean to debate? Let me laugh out loud. The guy is just asking if he can borrow some particular sprites from a particular screenpack, how is he asking for a debate? The answer according to the newly established rules should have been clearly "Yes you can /period", but instead, he was threatened of being righteously flamed and people comment on how it is "wrong".I am sadened by how some people can't let it go. If you don't agree with the rules, no one forces you to stay here.QuoteOh, and I thought I heard that you were supposed to behave.You are not qualified to judge me. You've always have been a flamer as a member. Even when you were a mod, you couldn't help flaming at everyone who wouldn't agree to you POV and abusing your powers, hence why you had to quit the staff. Even tho your behaviour has improved since the new rules have been established, I won't take any lesson from you.Sepp said, September 28, 2007, 05:32:18 pmYep. I've read the rules and I'm doing nothing against the rule. Please stop this now.
Quotebut instead, he was threatened of being righteously flamed and people comment on how it is "wrong".Read again and remove your moronic comprehension filters.QuoteYou are not qualified to judge me.Because you are qualified to judge me ?QuoteYou've always have been a flamer as a member.That false, but you have.QuoteEven tho your behaviour has improved since the new rules have been establishedMy behavior has never changed. Well, since you still can't read, I can't expect you to understand. You thinking I did change can only prove you're the one who's comprehension changes at random - for no reason.QuoteI've read the rules and I'm doing nothing against the rule. Please stop this now.You're flamebaiting and trolling, and you're acting like a mod, basically. I believe each of those are against the rules - at least, against common sense. Also, telling an admin that you're not breaking the rules when he says otherwise is pretty stupid. He's the one who warned you about your behavior to begin with. Not mine. Yours.
Blade Art said, September 28, 2007, 06:14:40 pmBaiken said, September 28, 2007, 05:15:01 pmObviously when a topic is meant to state and discuss one's opinions about stealing"Obviously" mean to debate? Let me laugh out loud. The guy is just asking if he can borrow some particular sprites from a particular screenpack, how is he asking for a debate? The answer according to the newly established rules should have been clearly "Yes you can /period", but instead, he was threatened of being righteously flamed and people comment on how it is "wrong".I am sadened by how some people can't let it go. If you don't agree with the rules, no one forces you to stay here.QuoteOh, and I thought I heard that you were supposed to behave.You are not qualified to judge me. You've always have been a flamer as a member. Even when you were a mod, you couldn't help flaming at everyone who wouldn't agree to you POV and abusing your powers, hence why you had to quit the staff. Even tho your behaviour has improved since the new rules have been established, I won't take any lesson from you.Sepp said, September 28, 2007, 05:32:18 pmYep. I've read the rules and I'm doing nothing against the rule. Please stop this now. ummmmm let me put it this way this forums rules arent the rules of the community, so just shove it when you say that its allowed, how in hell does it suddenly become ok to steal just because rules change doesnt mean morals will change, you keep saying that the rules allow it well just because i can legally bang my girlfriend doesnt mean i wont dissrespect her religious wishes, ie rules of one thing change doesnt mean that its still ok to do it if its not moral to people
Blade Art said, September 28, 2007, 06:14:40 pm"Obviously" mean to debate? Let me laugh out loud. The guy is just asking if he can borrow some particular sprites from a particular screenpack, how is he asking for a debate? The answer according to the newly established rules should have been clearly "Yes you can /period", but instead, he was threatened of being righteously flamed and people comment on how it is "wrong".The answer of the dude was already answered, and you can't just stop posting? I mean nobody is flaming the guy that started this topic, the one that started the "debate" was #shaun with his "zomg i kan kode c++ lolwtf" when even a monkey or me can code shit in c++ and then you started posting "This has sadly turned into a battlefield for the pro-"righteous"." when nobody was saying something about stealing sprites IIRC.Blade Art said, September 28, 2007, 06:14:40 pmYou are not qualified to judge me. You've always have been a flamer as a member. Even when you were a mod, you couldn't help flaming at everyone who wouldn't agree to you POV and abusing your powers, hence why you had to quit the staff. Even tho your behaviour has improved since the new rules have been established, I won't take any lesson from you.Well, i can say something about that, it's impossible not to flame someone that's not smart enough to stop posting stupid topics, request stuff, steals something (because that were the rules back then) or do something increideby stupid.Seriously, you come here like if you were someone mature enough to understand the topic at hand, but every post of you leads tu a freaking flame war, maybe you should stop posting for a while, read the whole topic before posting or even better think before posting anything.
