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Sub-Zero/Scorpion (Read 13549 times)

Started by Sean Altly, August 16, 2011, 11:20:49 pm
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Sean Altly

Sub-Zero/Scorpion
#1  August 16, 2011, 11:20:49 pm
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***This thread will now encompass all discussion for Sub-Zero AND Scorpion, now that Scorpion has been officially added***

So, been making some progress on Sub-Zero. At this rate, his sprites might be done very shortly after the polls close, which would be awesome because then I can get right to work on the winners. Anyway, I'm basing his animations off of his UMK3 sprites, but his actual look is his MK1/MK2 look with the scar added since it's kind of an iconic part of his design at this point. Here are some screen shots and .gifs (more in the spoiler):




Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Here's his planned moveset for right now. It's a combination of moves from different versions of Sub-Zero, plus one original move, creating what I like to think of as my ideal Sub-Zero supplanted into a Capcom-style fighting game (and yes, that means no fatalities).

COMMAND MOVES:

-Roundhouse Kick - B+HK
  -Classic MK-style roundhouse kick. Not sure if it will cause knock down quite yet, will have to see if that's balanced or not.

-Standing Sweep - B+LK
  -Classic MK sweep.

SPECIAL MOVES:

-Freeze - D,DF,F,P
  -Obviously, this is his freeze projectile. I will implement the Double Ice Backfire mechanic from the MK games.

-Diagonal Freeze - F,D,DF,P
  -A diagonally-aimed Freeze projectile. Will work the same as the regular one.

-Low Freeze - D,DB,B,P
  -A downard aimed Freeze projectile. Rather than the silly "slipping around" version, this will be sort of like MK9's where it freezes the ground, and if the opponent touches it, it will freeze them in place, or if they're close enough, they will just get the lower half of their body frozen.

-Ice Slide - D,DF,F,K
  -The classic Slide attack.

-Ice Clone - B,D,DB,K
  -Sub-Zero flips backwards, leaving an icy statue of himself behind that freezes the opponent if they come into contact with it.

-Cold Punishment - F,DF,D,DB,B,K
  -Sub-Zero grabs the opponent and freezes them up to their waste. He then hits them several times in the face/torso while vulnerable before uppercutting them away. Partially inspired by his "Have an Ice Day" Fatality from MK9.

SUPER MOVES:

- Polar Blast (L1) - D,DF,F,S
  -Sub-Zero creates a large orb-like ice blast that does moderate damage but also leaves the opponent frozen for an additional attack. Will have near full-screen range but will also be blockable.

-Blizzard Spikes (L1) - D,DB,B,S
  -Sub-Zero directs a long ice blast at the ground, which causes a series of icy spikes to raise up in succession. If anyone has played as Adamas, think his L3 super move, or Hsien-Ko's Chireitou super.

-Brutality (L3) - F,D,DF,S
  -Sub-Zero runs at his opponent and attacks them with a seemingly endless flurry of physical attacks, before finishing them off with an ice-assisted uppercut.


Anyway, ideas and suggestions are welcome. Let me know what you think.

***SCORPION***

Obviously Scorpion will be a palette swap of SUb-Zero with some unique animations. I won't be working on those unique animations until Sub-Zero is done, so for now take comfort in this single sprite and his planned movelist:




COMMAND MOVES:

-Roundhouse Kick - B+HK
  -Classic MK-style roundhouse kick. Not sure if it will cause knock down quite yet, will have to see if that's balanced or not.

-Standing Sweep - B+LK
  -Classic MK sweep.

SPECIAL MOVES:

-Spear - D,DF,F,P
  -This is Scorpion's classic Spear move, which hits for some damage, then Scorpion pulls his opponent to him to set them up for an additional attack.

-Teleport Punch - D,DB,B,P
  -Scorpion jumps backwards and teleports to the other side of the screen with his fist extended, punching his opponent.

-Hellfire - F,D,DF,P or K
  -Scorpion raises up a colomn of Hellfire from beneath his opponent. The way the move will work in this game will be that different strength of punch or kick determines where the column appears. (LP - Close, LK - Med. Close, HP - Med. Far, HK - Far). It will be blockable as well.

-Scissors Takedown - D,DF,F,K
  -Still working out the logistics here since normal characters don't have that required sweep anim they have in the MK games. I should check Blaire again to see how her creator makes her scissors takedown work in Mugen.

SUPER MOVES:

- Toasty (L1) - D,DF,F,S
  -Scorpion removes his mask and reveals his skull face, then breathes fire towards his opponent. Basically his classic Fatality turned into a flamethrower like Super move.

-Hell's Inferno (L1) - F,D,DF,S
  -Scorpion raises one massive Hellfire column that hits several times and sends the opponent flying. WIll be wider and taller then the regular column and last much longer. Think Zero's Rekkoha super from MVC3, but with the attacking pillar coming from below rather than above.

-No ideas for an L3 right now. Could easily just use Brutality again with a different finish, but I'm sure you guys have a better idea.

Also NO SWORDS.

Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.
Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 10:25:49 am by Sean CenAltly

balmsold

Re: Sub-Zero
#2  August 16, 2011, 11:25:31 pm
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man thats sick(in the good way),how many people is helping you in this project?

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero
#3  August 16, 2011, 11:28:27 pm
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I listed them all in the "I need help with this project" thread. As far as the new sprites needed for the game, nobody (and I mean new sprites just for this game, not counting the awesome Goku sprites by Balthazar, Li Kun's Hinata/Morrigan sprites, etc.)
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero
#4  August 16, 2011, 11:41:13 pm
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As usual time to throw in my input.

   No ice statue trap? Well I guess that would be hard to code or something so it's w/e. I think Sub-Zero will be really barebones with this moveset, so it might be beneficial to give him interesting properties on what he does have to make him more viable. Something like MK style jump-ins that put the opponent in a juggle state, fast freezes that makes for interesting combos, a sweep that special cancels out of pretty much all his ground attacks and puts the opponent in a juggle state after use or works as a sweep, make him build meter fast, the little things that make him feel like he's viable. He lacks in utility but you could make up for that in giving his minimal tools maximum effectiveness, something like Guile.

   His Polar Blast sounds boss, I would like if you made it so that wasn't combo-able so that it's more like a risk/reward type of move. Blizzard Spikes would be nice as a OTG and his go-to super for mostly everything combo related but as most supers like that work, they have limited effectiveness if close to the wall. Brutality sounds great and you should make it have STUPID high damage and combo-ability to make up for Sub-Zero's otherwise limited ability.

   Sub-Zero can be great if you do him correctly, but on paper he's barebones so you have to make an effort to make him great with excellent properties and mechanics for his moves just like Capcom does with Guile.

Khala

Re: Sub-Zero
#5  August 16, 2011, 11:41:59 pm
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First jumping animation looks so funny, doesn't resemble Sub-Zero type of fighter...

Needs a bit more of detail in the gauntlets (?) for the stand anim, and I don't see why if does have detail in the shoulder part. Also, what is that light source under his chest?

Hero

Re: Sub-Zero
#6  August 16, 2011, 11:43:15 pm
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Khala said, August 16, 2011, 11:41:59 pm
First jumping animation looks so funny, doesn't resemble Sub-Zero type of fighter...

Needs a bit more of detail in the gauntlets (?) for the stand anim, and I don't see why if does have detail in the shoulder part. Also, what is that light source under his chest?

Bah, the gauntlets may be optional, but I agree with the other details.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero
#7  August 17, 2011, 12:52:48 am
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Khala said, August 16, 2011, 11:41:59 pm
First jumping animation looks so funny, doesn't resemble Sub-Zero type of fighter...

Needs a bit more of detail in the gauntlets (?) for the stand anim, and I don't see why if does have detail in the shoulder part. Also, what is that light source under his chest?

Hilariously enough, all of those animations are based on his UMK3 sprites, so your comment is not terribly valid. That's his exact vertical jump anim with extra frames added for fluidity. Also, I stated in the very first post, his appearance is based on his MK1/MK2 appearance, so he doesn't really have additional detail in his gauntlets. For his shoulders, I'm not adding that quilted texture to the material, that would take forever and isn't necessary. Also, I don't know what you mean about the light source under his chest, that's just supposed to be his abdomen sticking out a bit to catch the above light source. Same with his loin cloth/flap thing. I guess his abs wouldn't stick out like that, so I'll remove it. Easier for me anyway.
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.
Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 01:19:47 am by Sean CenAltly

Luis Alejandro

Re: Sub-Zero
#8  August 17, 2011, 01:03:12 am
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Have you played the MK9 version of sub zero? If you haven't then I suggest you should so you can brainstorm some more ideas or better yet incorporate some moves from the game. Also I think you should change the command of his sweep attack to b+HK like in every MK game.
xX-Nero-Xx said, May 22, 2013, 03:27:40 pm
I wouldn't consider that a infinite since you have to make your opponent bounce of the wall and if you do it on the wrong side of the stage the stage interaction would activate.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero
#9  August 17, 2011, 01:18:06 am
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Yes, I've played MK9. What special moves does he have there, besides the Ice Clone, that aren't being used here? Also, the Roundhouse is B+HK, so the sweep would have to be B+LK here. He's being molded to adapt to this gameplay style, so certain things are going to have to change and be sacrificed.
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero
#10  August 17, 2011, 02:01:32 am
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Yeah I've got nothing beyond what I've already said, Sub-Zero is just going to have to be barebones.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero
#11  August 17, 2011, 02:25:00 am
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But what has he done in the games as special moves, minus the Ice Clone, that could be added to make him not "bare bones?" I mean, if this is "bare bones" then he's been bare bones in most of his iterations. I'll add the Ice Clone if that helps because it's not hard to code, it's just an issue of "how many different ways does the guy need to freeze his opponent?" and also because no one hardly ever falls for it. I don't want to get into Ice Sword stuff, so what else is there for specials?
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero
#12  August 17, 2011, 02:48:18 am
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   I'm only saying he's barebones because in actual MK games most characters are like him they don't have many moves but the actual engine supports this and encourages simpler combat. This game has people with plenty attacks and moves that all serve many functions but Sub-Zero...freezes you and slides but that's about it.  ;P

   You can add the Ice Clone but if you don't want him to you don't need to add it, it won't make such a difference anyway. Regardless, as far as ways to innovate, uhh...uhhhh....uhhhhhhhhhhh...add a special move based on Blizzard Spikes? A single pillar comes out? One close up one far?  :idea2:

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero
#13  August 17, 2011, 02:52:43 am
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Oh, if you guys want me to innovate new moves for him to balance him out, I can definitely do that. I just figured you guys would want me to stick to his established MK arsenal.
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero
#14  August 17, 2011, 02:56:27 am
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Uhh....a command grab that does no damage but freezes the opponent! That sure would be added utility!  :D

Luis Alejandro

Re: Sub-Zero
#15  August 17, 2011, 03:26:17 am
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Ice clones would be great, they work wonders if you know how to use them properly. I was also suggesting that you base his gameplay style(somewhat slow, heavy hitting, somewhat combo fiendish, zoning style) on his MK9 incarnation
xX-Nero-Xx said, May 22, 2013, 03:27:40 pm
I wouldn't consider that a infinite since you have to make your opponent bounce of the wall and if you do it on the wrong side of the stage the stage interaction would activate.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero
#16  August 17, 2011, 03:31:36 am
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Okay, I'll look into it.

I added two new specials to the first post, Ice Clone and a command grab, Cold Punishment, inspired by his Have an Ice Day fatality in MK9.
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

Duo Solo

Re: Sub-Zero
#17  August 17, 2011, 03:33:44 am
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I am happy to see you working on Sub Zero Sean!

Heres a few things you can give Subby:
-Target combos. In MK9, he has several of them, but there are a few that are very notable. For example, he has a combo where he temporary freezes the opponent (although the freeze lasts less than a second). You can even short cut and make his UMK3 combos as target combos (and possibly switch out the axe with an ice sword)
-There is a Focus Attack-like move Sub Zero has where he charges up his fists. At full charge, its unblockable and it sends the frozen opponent a little ways away in the air. At less than full charge, it does damage but doesn't freeze.
-For a super, you can have Sub Zero perform his X-Ray (without the X-Ray). Have him cover himself in ice and slide headfirst into the opponent. He then jabs them in the stomach and finishes it off with a headbutt to the face.

Cazaki

Re: Sub-Zero
#18  August 17, 2011, 03:34:11 am
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 :2thumbsup:

I would have just one more special or just another command normal and I'd say he's good.

Sean Altly

Re: Sub-Zero
#19  August 17, 2011, 03:41:49 am
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Well, as far as combos goes, everyone in the game adheres to the same combo system generally. It's a bit like MVC2, though not quite as over the top. The focus-attack like move isn't a bad idea though. Maybe that could be the additional special that Cazaki said he should have.
Son, the last thing you'll realize you need is what you've already got.

Duos

Re: Sub-Zero
#20  August 17, 2011, 10:04:42 am
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If I can make a suggestion, I think you should alter the freeze ball super aesthetically.  Maybe to make it a little more interesting, have it be a big glacial ball instead of a "misty" ice ball like his normal special?  Or maybe an icicle that drills into the opponent?

Also maybe you could include the kori blade into part of his moveset that he used in the 3d games and MK9.
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