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The amount of math you should know to create for mugen (Read 5844 times)

Started by Speedy9199, October 16, 2014, 06:02:47 pm
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What level of math should you know?

Algebra 1
12 (38.7%)
Algebra 2
7 (22.6%)
Trigonometry
7 (22.6%)
Calculus 1
1 (3.2%)
Calculus 2 or higher
4 (12.9%)

Total Members Voted: 31

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Not Bastard Renzo F

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#21  October 17, 2014, 12:21:34 am
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Speedy9199 said, October 16, 2014, 11:57:16 pm
Also if someone was able to make a calculation like this of what I said, I would like to see.

That was exactly what I meant with my example in my previous post. I used angledraw + some polar to cartesian coordinates convertion to achieve it.

Code: 
[state 1010, AngleAdd]
type = Angleadd
trigger1 = (command = "holdZ" || command = "holdC")
value = ifelse(command = "holdZ",3,-3)

[state 1010, VarAngle]
type = varset
trigger1 = command = "holdZ" || command = "holdC"
v = 0
value = var(0) + ifelse(command = "holdZ",3,-3)

[State 1010, AngleDraw]
type = Angledraw
trigger1 = 1
value = var(0)/180

[state 1010, Speed]
type = velset
trigger1 = command = "holdZ" || command = "holdC"
X = cos(var(0)*Pi/180)*3
Y = -sin(var(0)*Pi/180)*3

[State 1010, Smoke]
type = makedust
trigger1 = 1
pos =-26*cos(var(0)*pi/180),26*sin(var(0)*pi/180)
spacing = 2

var(0) stores the angle and I use that angle to calculate X and Y components of the helper's veolocity. I use roughly the same technique for placing the smoke on the correct position of the rocket. These are things that are not so easy to understand if you don't know a bit of math.

Jesuszilla

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#22  October 17, 2014, 01:19:38 am
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I'm with [E], bare minimum and most of what you'll use is algebra I. I've used trigonometry a bit, too. I love sine and cosine and you can do cool stuff with them.

Legendary DeMoNk@I

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#23  October 17, 2014, 03:48:22 am
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Saikoro said, October 16, 2014, 06:49:56 pm
You guys should put in a basic option, like 2+2 is 4, for us knuckleheads like myself. I know basic algebra and common math. Does this mean I'm fucked when I'll ultimately sit with coding??

If so, Kahn Academy will be my best friend. :doom:

タイタニックリバース said, October 17, 2014, 12:09:54 am
You need math to make stuff for Mugen? Oh, wow...


nah nothing that serious fellas. I mean it does help to be a bit of an Ace at math for faster results with the codes when it gets advanced and you are using a LOT of variables n such but for me it was just playing the matching game. Adding this properly with that. etc etc. Just basic math knowledge when its needed. Now, If you cant count or add or subtract then uhhh...yeah youre screwed LOL

Kyoudou Senna

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#24  October 17, 2014, 03:54:17 am
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That they don't just restrict themselves to my style.

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Jesuszilla

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#25  October 17, 2014, 04:59:15 am
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Computing is based on mathematics.

Vans

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#26  October 17, 2014, 06:27:59 am
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For having a good time, Algebra to beginner's college Algebra.

More advanced system/movement coding is better done and understood if the coder has knowledge of Calculus I/II/III and more specialized Sets/Logic subjects (mostly for recursion).

Anyone with very good knowledge of vector Calculus can code any type of movement efficiently.
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ELECTR0

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#27  October 17, 2014, 09:43:39 am
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Math can be overridden by good Ol' trial and error. Math just makes the process quicker. The end result will still be the same for your idea regardless of the method. If your idea was $h!t, then your result will be lackluster regardless of how you got there. So I vote that math is not needed and beneficial for speed only.
Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 10:03:41 am by ELECTR0

Алексей

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#28  October 17, 2014, 05:36:15 pm
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ELECTR0 said, October 17, 2014, 09:43:39 am
Math can be overridden by good Ol' trial and error. Math just makes the process quicker. The end result will still be the same for your idea regardless of the method. If your idea was $h!t, then your result will be lackluster regardless of how you got there. So I vote that math is not needed and beneficial for speed only.

Yes, but the topic assumes that math IS needed. What's being questioned is the degree of how much is needed. Trial and error can get you places of course, but you still need to have some sort of grounding in basic math to really do anything. Luckily, most people do so there shouldn't be any problem. :P

Also, sometimes math formulas can actually be your bottleneck depending on how you used them. That or you could just be stuck on a math formula and that time alone could be your bottleneck.

-[Все слова это только слова.]-

Speedy9199

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#29  October 17, 2014, 05:52:04 pm
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From using Algebra I have personally found that the distance formula ((X2-X1)^2 + (Y2-Y1)^2).5 is what could be one of the greatest formulas evar. At times it just seems to work like magic. This allows any type of movement to follow something no matter where it is.
The only Mugen creator on this site without a "gay" purple name.  :-X

Little known FACT: If you use the equation, (z)velocity = (((x2-x1)^2 + (y2-y1)^2)^.5) / time and z = a small decimal number in mugen you can get something that follows something else. Useful for heat seeking missiles, black holes, magnet effects, a projectile aimed for an enemy's head... Seriously, try it! It's awesome!

Bastard Mami

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#30  October 17, 2014, 05:58:05 pm
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@jesuszilla: @vans:
you could say that knowing physics is also a requisite to make somethign of quality ,but recent findings on capcom games negate that statement.

Speedy9199

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#31  October 17, 2014, 06:20:42 pm
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[MFG]maximilianjenus said, October 17, 2014, 05:58:05 pm
@jesuszilla: @vans:
you could say that knowing physics is also a requisite to make somethign of quality ,but recent findings on capcom games negate that statement.

About physics, most colleges in America(not sure about Japan) require anyone going into computer science to take one or two physics classes or for some strange reason chemistry(lol). So not all computer science people know a lot about physics. The company  would have to hire a person that graduated in physics to help do the gravity parts. But the thing is, physics (at least in America) is one of if not THE hardest majors to complete. It is hard to find someone like that. After all those people are basically going to school to be a rocket scientist. lol. Also it seems impossible with computer technology today to get A+ like physics for anything computer wise.
The only Mugen creator on this site without a "gay" purple name.  :-X

Little known FACT: If you use the equation, (z)velocity = (((x2-x1)^2 + (y2-y1)^2)^.5) / time and z = a small decimal number in mugen you can get something that follows something else. Useful for heat seeking missiles, black holes, magnet effects, a projectile aimed for an enemy's head... Seriously, try it! It's awesome!

Bastard Mami

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#32  October 17, 2014, 06:42:52 pm
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college and physics is cute, physics I and II are highschool stuff, those are more than enough for mugen "programming" (but so are algebra and calculus so I had to bring physics up).

Jesuszilla

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#33  October 18, 2014, 12:08:30 am
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UT has one of the top CS programs in America and we weren't required to take physics courses. We ARE required to take upper-division math courses, but we get to choose what we take (I personally chose matrix calculations).

Taking more science courses like chemistry is only if you go for a BS; I went for a BA because it's more fun.

[MFG]maximilianjenus said, October 17, 2014, 05:58:05 pm
@jesuszilla: @vans:
you could say that knowing physics is also a requisite to make somethign of quality ,but recent findings on capcom games negate that statement.

Pretty much all Capcom stuff is VelSets and VelAdds; I don't believe I've ever seen VelMul used even once. The most complex thing I've seen in 2D Capcom is probably Kyosuke's projectile, but I haven't looked much into Warzard and that could have some interesting things.
Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 12:13:20 am by Jesuszilla

Speedy9199

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#34  October 18, 2014, 01:05:28 am
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Jesuszilla said, October 18, 2014, 12:08:30 am
UT has one of the top CS programs in America and we weren't required to take physics courses. We ARE required to take upper-division math courses, but we get to choose what we take (I personally chose matrix calculations).

Physics is strongly tied into math but there are some things math alone cannot answer. I brought up having to know physics sometimes because I recently came across something like this in mugen:

You fire a projectile from a cannon (in real life or even with mugen's artificial gravity) at any angle besides straight up (90 degrees). The cannon ball will of course come down because of gravity. When it comes down it WILL come down in the form of a parabola. A 100% PERFECT parabola, well at least half a parabola. AKA the little "arch" that forms. This happens to pretty much EVERY SINGLE object if it is launched somehow. To recreate this on a computer all you have to do is use some form of X^2. But the biggest question is, WHERE THE FUCK does this parabola come from in the first place? This parabola seems to come from NOWHERE and it is always just "there." I can understand it does this because of a force pushing down on it vertically (gravity). But it doesn't really explain why it is so "perfect" and why it is always just "there."



This kind of stuff is over looked because we are so used to seeing it in real life. Knowing math you can recreate this an a computer, but you will recreate it without "truly" knowing it.

I have talked to computer science friends who have taken up to calculus 3 and applied their knowledge of math to computers and NONE of them can answer this question because they have not taken high level physics classes.

My point: Sometimes you just GOT to know physics for things like this. However if my question is unanswerable at least you have to know how it works.
The only Mugen creator on this site without a "gay" purple name.  :-X

Little known FACT: If you use the equation, (z)velocity = (((x2-x1)^2 + (y2-y1)^2)^.5) / time and z = a small decimal number in mugen you can get something that follows something else. Useful for heat seeking missiles, black holes, magnet effects, a projectile aimed for an enemy's head... Seriously, try it! It's awesome!

Not Bastard Renzo F

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#35  October 18, 2014, 04:05:15 am
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What do you mean by "where does this parabola comes from"? That makes no sense like the rest of the post. It looks more like a philosophical question.

Bastard Mami

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#36  October 18, 2014, 05:43:06 am
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that's simple acceleration/gravity; you can get the formula by simple interpolation or euler/fourier series if you want to be more accurate; acceleration works most of the time and it's physics 1 and it is high school stuff, not necessary to take it in college.

Vans

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#37  October 18, 2014, 07:31:51 am
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Bea

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#38  October 18, 2014, 11:12:13 am
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You don't need to know Mathematics to "code" on Mugen (calling that shit code hurts so much... :()
But hey, you should go and learn it. Mathematics is a thing of beauty, and vector math is sooo, sooo beautiful it brings tears to my eyes just to think about it.
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タイタニックリバース

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#39  October 18, 2014, 11:19:32 am
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But, it's hard...
Expect nothing, but remeber everything.+ I am tired. Future spot for Doraemon in MvC picture, the second I learn to create it. (Even further: Pepsiman for Mvc picture.) Insert random Doraemon anime .gif. (Also, Pac-Man Delta whaling on a MLP character .gif........) Now, Wipeout....... OTHER STUFF? Needs blue SSB 64 Mario in tornado .gif......... Add Super Mario Fighters 3 sprite here........ Also, now doing KFA stuff...

Bea

Re: The amount of math you should know to create for mugen
#40  October 18, 2014, 11:29:57 am
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What sort of a wimp are you that would let something as plain as "it is hard" to get into your way to achieve greatness?

Your limits are there so you can crush them, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women!
Now get on those Math books before I have to bitch slap you. >:(
To quote Lt. Frank Drebin: "Cheer up, Ed. This is not goodbye. It's just I won't ever see you again."

All your MFG bandwidth is belong to me.
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