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The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Justice for Floyd edition (Read 646791 times)

Started by Ricepigeon, March 22, 2017, 08:42:19 pm
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Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#621  September 25, 2017, 12:20:43 am
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Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#622  September 25, 2017, 12:40:28 am
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Trump going as far as calling Kaepernick a son of a bitch is very telling to me. A black man protesting racial injustice is spoken of harshly, but those Charlottesville protesters? Very fine people.

If America had so much "racial injustice" as Kaepernick claims, he wouldn't have any chance of becoming as a successful as he is now.

He honestly deserves the shit he's getting in my opinion. Anyone who disrespects the flag that America's soldiers died for is simply a cunt in my eyes. 
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#623  September 25, 2017, 03:57:00 am
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Kushner (along with many many other White House aides) set up a private email account after the election and has been using it for White House business.

This is Actually very different from Hillary because stuff.

There's two answers here.

It's almost identical (slightly better simply because I don't believe Kushner deals with shit that matters as much as Hillary did as Secretary of State, but I could be wrong?) to Hillary in terms of the security risk. One of the main reasons people went at Hillary is that her communications were allegedly hacked or intercepted, intelligence leaked, American military died, etc. Kushner is guilty, at least in potential because I don't know if anyone's bothered hacking him, of the exact same offense.

However, the Hillary thing had additional angles. As far as I'm aware, Kushner isn't withholding his e-mails from being archived, deleting them in response to federal subpoenas, etc. The other reason people went at Hillary is that the use of a personal e-mail in her case was to keep information out of the hands of the public and the rest of the government. If Kushner starts doing that shit then it will be exactly the same.

For the record, I don't really care one way or the other about Kushner. I don't think he's particularly intelligent, but I haven't got any particular reason to hate him either. He probably shouldn't hold the position he does but until he actively fucks it up (and maybe he did and I just missed it) then I don't care that much.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#624  September 25, 2017, 04:38:57 am
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Trump going as far as calling Kaepernick a son of a bitch is very telling to me. A black man protesting racial injustice is spoken of harshly, but those Charlottesville protesters? Very fine people.

If America had so much "racial injustice" as Kaepernick claims, he wouldn't have any chance of becoming as a successful as he is now.

He honestly deserves the shit he's getting in my opinion. Anyone who disrespects the flag that America's soldiers died for is simply a cunt in my eyes. 


It's not just him, you little shit for brains. Remember, Kap started to kneel after the events of a year ago involving black people. This whole thing would of died off had the Orange Orangutan not spout out his crap to a rabid base of dumb bastards that call Alabama home.

He now has the NFL and NBA against him (although NASCAR is sticking with His Orangeness because, let's face it, NASCAR will never EVER get rid of it's redneck stench now matter how much they try to market to anyone that isn't inbred). Sports are supposed to unify people at rough times, not divide them.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#625  September 25, 2017, 04:41:34 am
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You are both shouting dumb partisan things at eachother and it's making you both look dumb.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#626  September 25, 2017, 04:57:00 am
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You are both shouting dumb partisan things at eachother and it's making you both look dumb.

While that is oh so true that I look bad, I feel it's the only way to fight back... trying to use facts and reason is impossible against Trump supporters, so the only option is to go down on their level and mud sling as well. When the current Idiocracy is gone, then there might be a chance for reason to return... until then, it's probably going to be a long four years.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#627  September 25, 2017, 05:29:42 am
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I just don't get the whole "kneeling = disrespect" thing; Kaepernick originally started off sitting during the anthem, but later on specifically sought out the advice of veterans, and together they determined that the best way to continue protesting but to also make it clear he meant no disrespect to the flag or to veterans was to kneel.

Like seriously, kneeling is a sign of respect! I was raised Catholic, we're genuflecting all the goddamn time at Mass!

The White House has issued another travel ban, this time adding Chad, North Korea, and Venezuela (the latter applies to diplomats only), while also removing Sudan from the list.

I'm certainly no expert on this stuff, but I don't think adding North Korea and Venezuela is going to help much as an argument in the various the court cases about the whole Muslim ban thing.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#628  September 25, 2017, 05:52:38 am
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You are both shouting dumb partisan things at eachother and it's making you both look dumb.

While that is oh so true that I look bad, I feel it's the only way to fight back... trying to use facts and reason is impossible against Trump supporters, so the only option is to go down on their level and mud sling as well. When the current Idiocracy is gone, then there might be a chance for reason to return... until then, it's probably going to be a long four years.

I'm a Trump supporter and using facts and reason sure as fuck works on me. It's the only thing that does. Part of what pushes me and others towards supporting Trump is the sheer irrational disdain shown to him by others, it feels like his faults can't even be criticized because he's criticized for insanely exaggerated or made-up things regardless of what he does. It often feels like we have to side with Trump even if we're iffy on the nuance of something, just because of the insane opposition against him.

What I'm saying is that the people you're criticizing? They feel exactly like you do. They're slinging mud because they tried to use reason and found how unwilling to listen everyone was, how popular lies and emotionally charged bullshit were. When you know people are fucking with you like that, why bother using facts, right? There's no need to play fair anymore.

I look at comments like yours and I see a layer of hate that I've never understood, and that it isn't even worth trying to penetrate because facts and reason don't work on you. Please don't be offended, my point is not to single you out, and I'm sure you correctly look at many comments from the right and see exactly the same thing.

My point is that you have to start somewhere. My point is that the only way that any progress is going to be made is if we're all dealing in reality and talking to eachother and hearing what the other person is saying, acknowledging the little true things they say even when you think their overarching points are wrong. When someone feels like they aren't being heard and their truth is being ignored, they shut down.

No side is better than the other side if they can't sit down and explain why they're better, instead of flinging condescension everywhere.

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(this is just a joke do not take this too seriously)
Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 06:19:20 am by Snakebyte
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#629  September 25, 2017, 11:13:29 am
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The thing is the reason he's doing it. His claim is that by standing for the anthem, you're showing pride in a country that oppresses blacks and other minorities. The kneeling represents fighting against that, and I find it to be misguided to put it kindly. It suggests that it's an epidemic when the truth is it represents a small percentage of the country. It's also unfair to the many servicemen and officers who do their job correctly, which is an argument from a current player and former veteran who came out for the anthem when his entire team sat out.

That said, Trump handled it poorly, surpise. There's no problem with pointing out the issue, but calling on people to "boycott the NFL" (lmao, America is too obsessed with fantasy football and gambling to do so) is a direct slight on the owner's pockets, people who aided Trump's campaign btw. But the other side isn't boycotting the NFL for that reason either now aren't they? And ripping players does nothing to alleviate the situation, you don't change people's minds by saying they should be out of work. Not to mention it sounds draconian as fuck, and that a vast majority of players actually did stand for the anthem before this week, go figure.

There's also the "keep sports and politics separate" claim that people like to use (which is fine), but for most that's little more than "politics is bad when it's the opinion I don't agree with." :(

(although NASCAR is sticking with His Orangeness)

lol, that clown show has far bigger problems. Like unsustainable costs, embarrassingly empty crowds, and all the rule changes and gimmicks turning it into a bigger joke than it already was (which is saying a lot). But at least everyone stood up for the anthem. :)
Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 11:17:55 am by Niitris
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#630  September 25, 2017, 12:28:23 pm
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Quote
There's also the "keep sports and politics separate" claim that people like to use (which is fine), but for most that's little more than "politics is bad when it's the opinion I don't agree with." :(

Yeah but everyone has different opinions so it's not like this is trying to silence any given opinion, it's keeping something out that automatically pisses off a portion of the fans regardless of the opinion expressed. Sports is something people watch to get away from the rest of the world, bringing the world's dumb shit back in is poor taste. I am a politics debate masochist but I'm still gonna be annoyed when it crops up in my entertainment.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#631  September 25, 2017, 02:15:20 pm
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I get all that, just pointing out that the reaction wouldn't be the same if the position being expressed was 'pro-American.' The same people had no problem with Tebow kneeling (albeit he did it in-game) since it was a display of his Christianity. Reaction would be much different if any celebration was a "Hands up, don't shoot" gesture.

It's more about that base not wanting "leftist" politics in their sports or entertainment. Or anything that goes against the good of what they feel the country stands for. Some people are neutral about it but I'd wager most aren't.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#632  September 25, 2017, 03:01:13 pm
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Quote
The kneeling represents fighting against that, and I find it to be misguided to put it kindly. It suggests that it's an epidemic when the truth is it represents a small percentage of the country.

No it doesn't. What it says is that the problem is significant enough to warrant attention, since a lot people believe that racism isn't even a thing anymore.

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It's also unfair to the many servicemen and officers who do their job correctly

No, it's not. If they do their job honorably, which most of them do, it doesn't apply to them.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#633  September 25, 2017, 03:39:55 pm
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Well, you're one of the rare ones Snakebyte. I usually hang around on Facebook and look at sites like Media Matters, whose job is to point out the con game the right wing is doing. Most of the time, it goes like this:

-Trump Supporter trolls
-I tell them "Corner. Dunce cap. Now"
-Trump Supporter usually fires back with fat joke
-I laugh it off since I've heard those jokes for most of my life.

To me, the kind of idiocy show by most of the Trump supporters disgusts me. There's no place in this world, or any world, where the kind of antics shown by him and his supporters are even remotely acceptable. It's clear that facts and reason don't work against them because they don't want to hear facts and reason, they want to hear anything that confirms their biases. I have my biases as well, but it's clear (at least to me) that until the right wing learns that "compromise" isn't a dirty word, then this cycle is just going to keep on.

BTW, I'm not offended in any way... It's actually nice that you care Snakebyte. But, sometimes... I just need to unleash my venom and hatred towards those who harm our country by supporting people and policies that don't help our fellow man.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#634  September 25, 2017, 04:29:38 pm
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That said, Trump handled it poorly, surpise. There's no problem with pointing out the issue, but calling on people to "boycott the NFL" (lmao, America is too obsessed with fantasy football and gambling to do so) is a direct slight on the owner's pockets, people who aided Trump's campaign btw. But the other side isn't boycotting the NFL for that reason either now aren't they? And ripping players does nothing to alleviate the situation, you don't change people's minds by saying they should be out of work. Not to mention it sounds draconian as fuck, and that a vast majority of players actually did stand for the anthem before this week, go figure.

There's also the "keep sports and politics separate" claim that people like to use (which is fine), but for most that's little more than "politics is bad when it's the opinion I don't agree with." :(

Regardless of any person's political leanings on the issue, the fact does remain that Trump's thinly veiled threats were completely illegal.

Quote
18 U.S. Code § 227 - Wrongfully influencing a private entity’s employment decisions by a Member of Congress or an officer or employee of the legislative or executive branch

(a) Whoever, being a covered government person, with the intent to influence, solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation, an employment decision or employment practice of any private entity—
(1) takes or withholds, or offers or threatens to take or withhold, an official act, or
(2) influences, or offers or threatens to influence, the official act of another,

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both, and may be disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.

(b) In this section, the term “covered government person” means—
(1) a Senator or Representative in, or a Delegate or Resident Commissioner to, the Congress;
(2) an employee of either House of Congress; or
(3) the President, Vice President, an employee of the United States Postal Service or the Postal Regulatory Commission, or any other executive branch employee (as such term is defined under section 2105 of title 5, United States Code).

Not that he's ever shown to have any comprehension of American law up until this point, but still.

It's shit like this that makes me honestly wonder how any rational person can support Trump.  Not as a liberal or as a conservative, but just as an actual, thinking person.  We're currently in a situation where millions, literally millions of American citizens are without shelter or power due to natural disasters across Texas, Florida, and Puerto Rico and the president of the United States of America; the man who swore an oath to serve and protect those people, is devoting all of his time and energy to having a fucking twitter war with professional athletes because he thinks they're not being nice enough to him.

How anyone who calls themselves an American, conservative or liberal, can look at that objectively and still think to themselves "I trust this person to be in charge of this country" boggles the mind.
Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 04:36:47 pm by Person Man
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#635  September 25, 2017, 06:16:18 pm
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If they do their job honorably, which most of them do, it doesn't apply to them.

So then why take a course of action that subtlety implies that the country is full of dishonorable police instead of the minorty that they are? The criticism is that he's disrespecting the nation at large and not just those select individuals.

Regardless of my position, I don't have any issue with Kaep choosing to confront matters important to him. I just didn't feel it was the best way to make a statement on it.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#636  September 25, 2017, 08:06:56 pm
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Well, you're one of the rare ones Snakebyte. I usually hang around on Facebook and look at sites like Media Matters, whose job is to point out the con game the right wing is doing.
Jesus Christ man.
"I usually hang around on Twitter and look at sites like InfoWars, whose job is to point out the con game the left wing is doing."

Drop media matters and drop social media if you are trying to understand and argue anything going on in American politics. Your view is exactly on the opposite side of the "dumb Trump supporters" that makes you sick (which is just as bad politically speaking). Divisive viewpoints all built on exaggerations, falsifications, and petty bullshit that doesn't matter at all but gets overblown(the NFL kneeling shitshow) don't help anything. Then again it is perfect for this circle-jerk containment thread, so feel free to disregard the advice if this is as far as you intend to argue US politics for you own sake.

My point here is, don't try to claim ANY kind of moral or intellectual high ground in the same post you claim to get your info on the politics from Media Matters or fucking social media. It's just embarrassing. The con game is played by both sides, one isn't any better just because you dislike one side more.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: Rocket man burning out his fuse up here
#637  September 25, 2017, 09:08:45 pm
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So then why take a course of action that subtlety implies that the country is full of dishonorable police instead of the minorty that they are? The criticism is that he's disrespecting the nation at large and not just those select individuals.

I don't think he's implying that at all. He's protesting the actions of the few, but the few as a percentage are so great in number that attention needs to be called to it. I also don't think he disrespected the nation at large either. If he burned a flag or turned his back during the anthem then that would be different.
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: "Patriot Wars: United States v. NFL"
#638  September 26, 2017, 02:23:58 am
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I get all that, just pointing out that the reaction wouldn't be the same if the position being expressed was 'pro-American.' The same people had no problem with Tebow kneeling (albeit he did it in-game) since it was a display of his Christianity. Reaction would be much different if any celebration was a "Hands up, don't shoot" gesture.

It's more about that base not wanting "leftist" politics in their sports or entertainment. Or anything that goes against the good of what they feel the country stands for. Some people are neutral about it but I'd wager most aren't.

Yeah, they wouldn't, but a different group would. The overall reaction would be the same even if the specific one wouldn't. Everyone's a hypocrite on this issue but the hypocrisy ends up being complementary, if that makes sense.

Well, you're one of the rare ones Snakebyte. I usually hang around on Facebook and look at sites like Media Matters, whose job is to point out the con game the right wing is doing.

First of all, Media Matters is explicitly a propaganda site. They coordinated directly with Hillary's campaign, using a loophole in campaign ad law related to internet stuff to do so without it being illegal, to spread negative lies about Trump and positive lies about Hillary. During the election I went into great detail dissecting some of the more ridiculous shit they did.

This isn't me being partisan, this is objective fact. You're going to want to get your news somewhere else. I don't care if it's the lefty-est of lefty places, but Media Matters isn't journalism, it's explicitly propaganda. It doesn't try to be independent or tell the truth, it tries to spread misinformation to accomplish a goal.

To me, the kind of idiocy show by most of the Trump supporters disgusts me. There's no place in this world, or any world, where the kind of antics shown by him and his supporters are even remotely acceptable. It's clear that facts and reason don't work against them because they don't want to hear facts and reason, they want to hear anything that confirms their biases. I have my biases as well, but it's clear (at least to me) that until the right wing learns that "compromise" isn't a dirty word, then this cycle is just going to keep on.

BTW, I'm not offended in any way... It's actually nice that you care Snakebyte. But, sometimes... I just need to unleash my venom and hatred towards those who harm our country by supporting people and policies that don't help our fellow man.

The thing is, they feel exactly the same way about you. They see you as just as unreasoning, just as hostile, supportive of policies that are just as damaging. Your moral position on these people is based on your position on the issues, and your opinion on the issues is potentially flawed--Not singling you out, this is true of absolutely everyone. Your condescension doesn't have a solid basis.

All of your hate is only valid if your worldview is valid, and until you destruct-test the shit out of that, expose it to the world, say what your opinions on the policies they support are, explain why you think they're so destructive, and hear the counterarguments and give them a chance to sway you, you have no right to act on it.

You could be wrong.

Literally everything you think, you could be wrong.

Just... let that sink in for a second, okay?

Trace back every feeling you have to the facts you think they are based on, then ask yourself if they're really facts. Figure out how to test those ideas. Throw them out into the open again and again and the longer you go without hearing a convincing counterargument, the more likely it is that they are true.

Because if you take the step that you're taking, going to moral judgements from untested ideas, you're doing the same thing Antifa does. You're deciding what people are and then deciding it's okay to treat them poorly because of what you think they are. 'Trump supporters are all unreasonable hateful people who want to harm our country' is just one very tiny step away from 'It's okay to punch fascists, and also I get to decide who the fascists are.'

You have to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that your assumptions are true before you even think about acting on them. And in the process, you'll convince people that their reasons to hate you are wrong, too. You'll realize that you're just different people with different perspectives, sometimes with different values that you can disagree with but still accept and understand. Maybe you'll figure out which bit of misinformation is fueling your hate, or fueling theirs.

Otherwise, the world is just going to keep on hating and hitting eachother instead of discussing the ideas, honestly the misconceptions most of the time, that lie beneath, and democracy and civilization is going to slip even further away than it already is.

(this is take two of this comment, the forum ate the first one. it was a bit more concise and flowed a bit better the first time around)

the president of the United States of America; the man who swore an oath to serve and protect those people, is devoting all of his time and energy to having a fucking twitter war with professional athletes because he thinks they're not being nice enough to him.

How anyone who calls themselves an American, conservative or liberal, can look at that objectively and still think to themselves "I trust this person to be in charge of this country" boggles the mind.

I think it's pretty great. A man who spends all day starting shit on the internet is someone I can really empathize with. And, I mean, consider the alternatives...
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: "Patriot Wars: United States v. NFL"
#639  September 26, 2017, 02:46:39 am
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I think it's pretty great. A man who spends all day starting shit on the internet is someone I can really empathize with. And, I mean, consider the alternatives...
That's... terrible.

There's so, so much more important shit going on in the world right now: Puerto Rico is in the middle of a humanitarian crisis. The latest Republican attempt at repealing Obamacare has gone down in flames. And Donald Trump is still fucking tweeting about the NFL, and that's Actually A Good Thing?!?! Get the fuck outta here.

EDIT: lol he finally fucking tweeted about PR right after I posted
Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 03:10:14 am by Jmorphman
Re: The Donald Trump Political MAGAthread: "Patriot Wars: United States v. NFL"
#640  September 26, 2017, 03:21:51 am
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You know, all that high-minded faux intellectualism you seem so proud of really rings as being disingenuous when you're freely admitting that you form your political opinions through dank memes and petty contrarianism.