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The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition (Read 18528 times)

Started by Just No Point, May 03, 2013, 01:31:47 am
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The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#1  May 03, 2013, 01:31:47 am
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I guess we can go ahead and host Mugen 1.1 Alpha 4 in the stickies here at Guild at this point.
The version I got from Club Syn has no KFM or anything.

Should I just use the 1.0 KFM and stage or did 1.1 have an updated version?
What else should we put in it? I'm thinking about the training character and Divinewolf's KFM if he's willing.
Though I got to hunt up the link to that training character. Anyone have it offhand? The one with Hugo and other size characters?
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#2  May 03, 2013, 02:21:52 am
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KFM720 is still a 1.0 char in the folder I have.
However, there is a KFM stage which was made for 1.1, with all the zoom code.
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#3  May 03, 2013, 02:24:42 am
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Would you have a link to that kind sir? Was it an edit made after the fact or something elecbyte actually released with the program?

DW

Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#4  May 03, 2013, 02:30:17 am
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Responding to your PM and idea here. I have no problem with you including my KFM with this. I also have Training as well if you want me to upload him.
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#5  May 03, 2013, 03:33:21 am
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Awesome. Thank you for giving me those links!

This has all the stages that Syn uploaded. I don't know if that means it has the 1.1 scaling code Cybaster mentioned though. It has both 1.0 KFMs. Divinewolf's KFM and all 4 forms of Training. Small. Medium, Large, and normal.

It also has a link to the latest build of Fighter Factory 3 for 32 and 64 bit with a link going to Virtual Tek's release topic here on Guild.

Mugen 1.1a4 Link

Updated stickies as well
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#6  May 03, 2013, 04:39:13 am
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I didnt know stages had a special coding for 1.1, as far as I know the option or config to zoom out stages are in the mugen.def file, I had p.o.t.s and other stages doing it with no problem, either way I like this idea
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Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#7  May 03, 2013, 05:13:09 am
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OK so... first thing I can think of is maybe having two different versions for download, one a basic and no-frills release with only KFM, a "consumer" version if you will. Nothing besides what is included with 1.0, essentially. The other version would be aimed at people who want to make things, and would include tools and characters to help them with that. This developer version could include the latest Fighter Factory, various characters, and a few stages maybe (I don't know anything about stages so maybe someone else can chime in about what would be helpful)

So, for characters; I think this version should strive to be simultaneously lean and diverse, featuring characters (and stages) that will provide a wide variety of gameplay styles and coding examples to help someone start up. 3 different versions of KFM would not be the best for this, I think. Here is a potential roster that I think might work well:

  • a revamped version of Training (instructions in English, and all different versions in one folder, with different .def's to select each size)
  • the Kyo that KoopaKoot is working on for his KOF tutorial
  • a Z2 character (SSJ Goku might work best, I think)
  • SFIII Necro by Rajaa
  • MvC2 Zangief by Kamekaze
  • E. Honda by PotS

Elecbyte's KFM should not be included at all in this, I think. There's a lot of things in there that people should avoid.
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#8  May 03, 2013, 06:07:14 am
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I don't see any reason to include 1.1 in a sticky. Seriously.
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#9  May 03, 2013, 10:37:11 am
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To help prevent a thousand "Where do I get 1.1?!!!" posts?
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#10  May 03, 2013, 12:18:46 pm
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Elecbyte's KFM should not be included at all in this, I think. There's a lot of things in there that people should avoid.

Why? It's THE Mugen character by the creators of the engine, what's wrong with it? Terribly worded or coded stuff in his files that could be misleading?...
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#11  May 03, 2013, 06:21:50 pm
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To help prevent a thousand "Where do I get 1.1?!!!" posts?

We didn't have that many to begin with, and with Winmugen (I wasn't around for the majority of its time, don't kill me for this) they had a ~6-9 year absence (supposedly). With 1.1 they weren't even gone for a year and you guys are already writing them off as this being the "Great Elecbyte Hiatus Part 2". I don't see why this even deserves attention (yet here I am).
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#12  May 03, 2013, 07:02:52 pm
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Why? It's THE Mugen character by the creators of the engine, what's wrong with it? Terribly worded or coded stuff in his files that could be misleading?...
Pretty much, yeah. There's stuff like corner push, crouching when running, and more stuff I don't want to look up. The misleading-ness of some of KFM's code outweighs the explanations for various things provided within code itself, IMO.

Xan

Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#13  May 03, 2013, 07:05:36 pm
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Why not provide an overhauled/fixed version then? The notes in the code are still pretty useful.
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Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#14  May 03, 2013, 07:14:57 pm
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Because my list was for things that already exist/will soon exist. Not hypothetical undertakings. If someone wants to do that for KFM, then that's great. :|
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#15  May 03, 2013, 07:49:46 pm
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Quote
With 1.1 they weren't even gone for a year and you guys are already writing them off as this being the "Great Elecbyte Hiatus Part 2".
There was pretty much zero activity from Elecbyte since the release of alpha 3, except for dfw releasing alpha 4 which included only minor bug fixes and no new features. The other members of the team are missing for 2 years now and dfw, the last man standing is also gone now for over 8 months.
If anything, the rushed release of 1.0 final (about a month before alpha 3) when a lot of issues were still not addressed, shows that something happened and they knew they might be unable to continue soon after. They are just really dishonest people who can't straight up say "we are having problems" and try to cover it up by leaving one person behind to simulate activity on their side. I was fooled by this act for the whole time between alpha 3 and 4 and only realized they weren't doing anything for nearly 2 years when there was no answer to my questions after the alpha 4 release.

On topic, include kfm because it is essentially a part of the documentation. People aren't supposed to learn what makes a good or bad character from it (that's somewhat subjective anyway), they read the code to figure out what code not explained anywhere else does -like constants- and that's all what it is for. It doesn't even includes a running state so blame common1.cns for having control while running, not Kfm. Not to mention being able to crouch while running is a feature, not a problem. Some people like it that way. If there is a misleading comment in kfm, fix it, but include it.
Other than kfm, don't include any characters or other content except one or two debug purpose characters (Training, or whatever other such characters exist with functionality not included in Training.)
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#16  May 03, 2013, 08:23:00 pm
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There was pretty much zero activity from Elecbyte since the release of alpha 3, except for dfw releasing alpha 4 which included only minor bug fixes and no new features. The other members of the team are missing for 2 years now and dfw, the last man standing is also gone now for over 8 months.
If anything, the rushed release of 1.0 final (about a month before alpha 3) when a lot of issues were still not addressed, shows that something happened and they knew they might be unable to continue soon after. They are just really dishonest people who can't straight up say "we are having problems" and try to cover it up by leaving one person behind to simulate activity on their side. I was fooled by this act for the whole time between alpha 3 and 4 and only realized they weren't doing anything for nearly 2 years when there was no answer to my questions after the alpha 4 release.

Calling them dishonest seems to be pushing it. I'm sure there's plenty of reasons as to why they havent been active. Do remember Elecbyte is a company, not a group of fans developing something for the fun of it (they may be that too but thats beside the point). Its possible that the project was axed due to lack of corporate growth (ie: lack of income). Perhaps they're in the middle of court proceedings regarding the mugen engine and were issued a gag order that prevents them from publicly disclosing progress on the engine. Your guess is as good as mine, but saying that they were intentionally trying to decieve us is pushing it too far. Shit happens, and nobody is exempt from this, not even Elecbyte.

Quote
Not to mention being able to crouch while running is a feature, not a problem. Some people like it that way.

I guess SNK must not be big fans of that feature then huh?

<<-- Updated 09/14/14

You limit yourself so badly when you try to avoid variables. When you get over your fear of the "complexity" of variables, you will find yourself in a better place: A beautiful world where coding is actually fun.
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#17  May 03, 2013, 08:58:47 pm
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@Jmorphman: The 2 versions with and without extra content are a good idea. However I think keeping KFM is also a good idea. Otherwise you have to DL both versions to have him.

I assume the list you gave is for variety purposes that have good teaching materials?


a revamped version of Training (instructions in English, and all different versions in one folder, with different .def's to select each size)
Does this exist already?

the Kyo that KoopaKoot is working on for his KOF tutorial
And putting the whole tutorial in with it would be a good idea. After it's all finished.

a Z2 character (SSJ Goku might work best, I think)
What's the purpose of this one?

SFIII Necro by Rajaa
I had considered that one too for all the options and template info

MvC2 Zangief by Kamekaze
Really good Marvel vs Capcom representation?

E. Honda by PotS
Why this particular character?

Oh, we should throw in a copy of the optional animation standards too!

Xan

Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#18  May 03, 2013, 08:59:42 pm
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I think Honda should be replaced with Geese but that's just me talking.
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Is finding MUGEN to be more enjoyable to play when you're not wearing clothes an underrated opinion?
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#19  May 03, 2013, 09:04:35 pm
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On topic, include kfm because it is essentially a part of the documentation. People aren't supposed to learn what makes a good or bad character from it (that's somewhat subjective anyway), they read the code to figure out what code not explained anywhere else does -like constants- and that's all what it is for. It doesn't even includes a running state so blame common1.cns for having control while running, not Kfm. Not to mention being able to crouch while running is a feature, not a problem. Some people like it that way. If there is a misleading comment in kfm, fix it, but include it.
Other than kfm, don't include any characters or other content except one or two debug purpose characters (Training, or whatever other such characters exist with functionality not included in Training.)
Pretty much this. I don't get why the other stuff needs to be included.
Re: The MUGEN 1.1 talk feedback edition
#20  May 03, 2013, 09:10:54 pm
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Well there will be 2 versions. 1 with just KFM the other with some extra stuff like Fighter Factory and a few really well developed characters from different games. A very few.