not sure if this would be the right section for this but here it goesthis is a project me and other people started http://kakutoaozaki.aforumfree.com/general-talk-f1/the-mugen-manhattan-project-t9.htmI just wanted general input on the idea.still before jumping to any conclusions, please bear in mind that the purpose of this idea isnt to warehouse but to prevent the loss of informationif you also would like to suggest any ideas or ammendments, please either post it on the link provided or here.thanks for your time
meh... standard "I'm too cool for you" protection stance... if you don't expect atomic bomb jokes, why call something "manhattan project"?if you want real input, here it goes:been there. done that. Countless of other people like you had the very same idea, and all of them degenerated into classic warehouses, since if a character was offline for 2 minutes due to intense traffic, most people already considered it enough to upload. even your way with word is the same from the thousands of "warehousers", up to find a random forum member to play target with.sorry bub, but you are just one more in the crowd. what you are doing ain't new at all and has been done to death.but guess what: we (guild) don't care anymore. that is our official instance on the thing.its your forum, its your rules. any problems with the characters thate are uploaded is up to you and the creator alone. that how it goes.and thanks for thinking i have a cool avatar!now... about the nuke... that might be a interesting approach to things. do you mean actual real life bombing of the servers or create a virtual nuke that will replace every image in mugen boards with pictures of KFM having sex with Suave dude while their girlfriend watches?no. there is not typos on that last chance. and i'm talking about the concept characters by elecbyte, not the users who use those aliases.
Tony 3rd said, October 08, 2008, 05:28:36 ammeh... standard "I'm too cool for you" protection stance... if you don't expect atomic bomb jokes, why call something "manhattan project"?if you want real input, here it goes:been there. done that. Countless of other people like you had the very same idea, and all of them degenerated into classic warehouses, since if a character was offline for 2 minutes due to intense traffic, most people already considered it enough to upload. even your way with word is the same from the thousands of "warehousers", up to find a random forum member to play target with.sorry bub, but you are just one more in the crowd. what you are doing ain't new at all and has been done to death.but guess what: we (guild) don't care anymore. that is our official instance on the thing.its your forum, its your rules. any problems with the characters thate are uploaded is up to you and the creator alone. that how it goes.and thanks for thinking i have a cool avatar!now... about the nuke... that might be a interesting approach to things. do you mean actual real life bombing of the servers or create a virtual nuke that will replace every image in mugen boards with pictures of KFM having sex with Suave dude while their girlfriend watches?no. there is not typos on that last chance. and i'm talking about the concept characters by elecbyte, not the users who use those aliases.well while i respect your opinion, it would be a bit rash to categorize something without giving it a chance(but you are entitled to your opinion)and as for uploading something that has been down for 2 mins thing might happen. but as i said a takedown system is in place, its not meant to be a "fuck you" to creators.the idea of the project is as i said before to avoid data loss.a good example to cite is Testp's famous workfiles(they seem to be lost and nobody seems to have them)the Manhattan project bit was made to make reference to what is an ambitious project(and yes i got the joke, i just replied your friendly jab, with another friendly jab)a part of your reply seems to come off as aggressive, I really dont understand why.
Tony 3rd said, October 08, 2008, 05:28:36 ammeh... standard "I'm too cool for you" protection stance... if you don't expect atomic bomb jokes, why call something "manhattan project"?if you want real input, here it goes:been there. done that. Countless of other people like you had the very same idea, and all of them degenerated into classic warehouses, since if a character was offline for 2 minutes due to intense traffic, most people already considered it enough to upload. even your way with word is the same from the thousands of "warehousers", up to find a random forum member to play target with.sorry bub, but you are just one more in the crowd. what you are doing ain't new at all and has been done to death.but guess what: we (guild) don't care anymore. that is our official instance on the thing.its your forum, its your rules. any problems with the characters thate are uploaded is up to you and the creator alone. that how it goes.and thanks for thinking i have a cool avatar!now... about the nuke... that might be a interesting approach to things. do you mean actual real life bombing of the servers or create a virtual nuke that will replace every image in mugen boards with pictures of KFM having sex with Suave dude while their girlfriend watches?no. there is not typos on that last chance. and i'm talking about the concept characters by elecbyte, not the users who use those aliases.For you to quickly categorize into a group and saying that it will degenerate into a warehouse is a rather brash statement. Especially seeing how you don't know anyone involved with the project or the kind of support it has already. Yeah it's been done before but terribly. Mugen-Infantry, Random Select, IMT, and even this place is riddled with dead links, and I for one am kind of sick of it. Like Kakuto said, there is a system to take down any and all files that the original creator has problems with having hosted. So no harm, no foul. As for the guild not caring anymore, that wasn't the point of Kakuto's post. He was trying to be informative and gain further support for his future endeavor. Your post was unnecessarily aggressive, which is a pity because that is what I would expect out of the staff at Mugen-Infantry and not from someone at Guild.
well... if it sounded agreessive... because they can't be put in nice words really, that is the naked truth.really. 5 years of this stuff and i've seem my share of sites come and go. from warehouses, to common creators sites. characters that people desperately tried to upload, in the name of "avoiding data loss" (some members might actually say that its just a preety name for "can't let those woderfull characters die") are not even remembered today. the Evil duo was once the poster guys of mugen, and now we have a whole generation of mugenites that does not even know who the "evil duo" is. Things come, thing go, that is how it works. it won't be you, or even me or anyone else who will change that. one day, you will stopping caring about mugen, and will no longer care about the database you did, and will delete it, without remorse. that what usually happens. kudos for you for even knowing the name testp. I'm not from that time, but the ammount of people who would even recognize that name is smaller by the day. it shows that you truly care about mugen, but face it. characters are lost and always will be.There is the episode of the transition from version 0101 to 0627, back when elecbyte was still in charge and running full power. the changes made by elecbyte on the new version were so drastic, that a good deal of the community back then actually said it would not use the new version, prefering the old one.and guess what? On the long term, everyone converted. lots of characters, stages or screenpacks were lost simply because they were not compatible with the new engine. when Winmugen was released, samething. tons of characters were forgotten, tons of other were made on their place, and people continued their lives. no one cares about mugen characters. creating a warehouse,or a database, is a huge waste of time, unless you want the money from the ads. on the very topic you made on your forum, you admit its being done to attract people to your forum. so its not about the characters.where is Mugena?where is MisticBlaze stuff or the stuff hosted on shinmugen? Erradicator's stuff? there are tons of good characters and creators that people loved back then and less then a year after their release they were gone. and its nearly impossible to get them today, even if you are a fan of the said character.that how things are. your effort would be best spent if you tried to create stuff for mugen instead of just hosting them. because they will fade and be forgotten, like everything else.but, do as you please. as i said, it only up to you, and any problem you have with a creator complaing, it will be up to you to solve. we can't (and won't) do anything.
well, we are not requesting your help to sort out problems for us.I was just merely asking for further ideas and ammendments. I am well aware of the history of mugen, ive been for only 2 years, but ive read up multiple articles and more or less caught up. and while i understand what you mean and agree on some parts(i make stuff for mugen btw, im not just a person that wants to database stuff)there are things that the beginners have mostly biggest desires to try and cant be found( i remember when i was one, I was having the time of my life trying characters and seeing how they looked running on the engine. which is probably one of the few things im grateful to in this community). while i might move on and give it up, i plan onto passing the torch to however wants to take over when that time comes. as for that time passes and people forget about characters and content, thats the main problem im trying to avoidP.S. what ads?the forum is ad free,(dont confuse me with sites that are money making operations) of course i would appreciate forum activity, but thats more or less to keep the database growing, nothing more.
the ads stuff is not directed to your forum specificaly. its just how warehouses in general work. they create a huge database, and then put loads and loads of ads everywhere on the site. one good database were shutdown (streemugen) because the new owner addes porn ads in a attempt to make more money.well... as i said, you seem to have your heart in the right place. your intentions are noble, and really, it is a good idea in theory. but, Communism was also good in theory.I'm not trying to sort out your problems, or anything. I'm just saying what happens on the long term. your post already covers most of the bases that it needed to be covered. so go on. try it. create a system that allows creators to easily contact you. make your website noted, and have people understand what you are doing. and most of all: work on it. that is the mistake from every database, be it a warehouse, guild, randomselect, etc...: Lack of work.update regularly. subscribe to every single Rss feed on mugen community. make going to news sites and creators sites a daily routine.update the characters on your database. contact the creator, offering the link as a mirror. as i said, builid a automated system that tell the mods of the database when a creator requests his character to be removed. try to convince the said creator that having his stuff on your site is a good idea.do the marketing of your forum, make people buy it.this is tons of work (consider that you will work with databases with thousands of entries) and is not easily manangeable. if you analise every critic to warehouses or databse, they all resume into one thing:the owner of the site did not want to work hard. never updated, neve listen to his "suppliers" (the creators), never tried to actually work for his success. they simply want to people to upload stuff for them and get the credits for creating such a wonderfull place.the following statement does not represent the view of the Mugen Fighters Guild Forum.If you are willing to do all this unrewarding work and actually make it work the right way, I'm 100% with you. but beware that this is extensive work (which is the reason on why the guild does not have a database anymore), its not easy and most of time you will do a herculean effort to do something, and people instead of recognizing it will think you should do better. to manage such website in such a way is a job most people will only do if they are being paid for.this is the work ahead of you. its not a easy one, and everyone who tried to do it simply said "Fuck it. its not worth all the effort".
hehe, i wont probably to ever be able to make a 100% accurate database, but i can try.its a hobby my friend, im not out to get perks or recognition. the name of the author will be given and properly credited.as for subscribing to endless rss feeds, and all that i will probably not be able to do a massive follow up like that, mostly because i work and have an outside life. Still my team and i can try. the way i intended would be something like this:somebody requests it because its offline:My staff will check if its offline, if it is we will try to fulfill the request or wait if someone else can fulfill it. if its fullfilled an entry can be added to the database. the updating will be done on a "as needed basis". I dont plan on making this forum the "zomg massive ass database" in a couple of days or months. It will get to its size depending on user input, information and confirmation of my staff and then follow up. thanks for the input and im just trying to be honest and explain from the get go what i consider realistic. I can completely understand your way of explaining things and point of view. thanks for wishing me good luck.
Tony 3rd said, October 08, 2008, 07:02:04 amthe ads stuff is not directed to your forum specificaly. its just how warehouses in general work. they create a huge database, and then put loads and loads of ads everywhere on the site. one good database were shutdown (streemugen) because the new owner addes porn ads in a attempt to make more money.well... as i said, you seem to have your heart in the right place. your intentions are noble, and really, it is a good idea in theory. but, Communism was also good in theory.I'm not trying to sort out your problems, or anything. I'm just saying what happens on the long term. your post already covers most of the bases that it needed to be covered. so go on. try it. create a system that allows creators to easily contact you. make your website noted, and have people understand what you are doing. and most of all: work on it. that is the mistake from every database, be it a warehouse, guild, randomselect, etc...: Lack of work.update regularly. subscribe to every single Rss feed on mugen community. make going to news sites and creators sites a daily routine.update the characters on your database. contact the creator, offering the link as a mirror. as i said, builid a automated system that tell the mods of the database when a creator requests his character to be removed. try to convince the said creator that having his stuff on your site is a good idea.do the marketing of your forum, make people buy it.this is tons of work (consider that you will work with databases with thousands of entries) and is not easily manangeable. if you analise every critic to warehouses or databse, they all resume into one thing:the owner of the site did not want to work hard. never updated, neve listen to his "suppliers" (the creators), never tried to actually work for his success. they simply want to people to upload stuff for them and get the credits for creating such a wonderfull place.the following statement does not represent the view of the Mugen Fighters Guild Forum.If you are willing to do all this unrewarding work and actually make it work the right way, I'm 100% with you. but beware that this is extensive work (which is the reason on why the guild does not have a database anymore), its not easy and most of time you will do a herculean effort to do something, and people instead of recognizing it will think you should do better. to manage such website in such a way is a job most people will only do if they are being paid for.this is the work ahead of you. its not a easy one, and everyone who tried to do it simply said "Fuck it. its not worth all the effort".Did the Hidden Elect place a lot of ads? Did Infinity place a lot of ads back in the day? Did MUGEN Free For All place a lot of ads? Did Unleaded MUGEN place a lot of ads? Did Windeagle's site place a lot of ads? Did all those Geocities/Angelfire warehouses place ads? No, no, no, no, no, and no. Name me one big warehouse that placed ads and I'll be happy to reconsider. The only MUGEN site that matches that description is Infantry, and they hold themselves so big atop their pedestal compared to warehouses that if they were considered a warehouse it'd be pure hypocrisy. As for your idea that things go away over time and that nothing is forever, I'd like you to tell that to Electrocaid. I understand that a database will never be perfect, but you saying that it's not possible for people to put effort into it is ungrounded. *points to Electrocaid*
OnslaugthtX's mugen site, Mugenation, Street Mugen and many others. etc... the sites you claim are the "new wave" of databases, pratically. i'm talking about stuff from 3,5 years ago. I used to spent 6 hours a day browsing for mugen stuff.and Electrocaid? he is an example of what i'm saying, but you are missing 2 things:1) he does not upload anything. he have every single thing on his PC and fufills requests. its different from uploading and having it available for anyone to download.2) It is all he does. it is how he contributes to the community. HE WORKS HARD TO MAINTAIN HIS DATABASE!As i said: Lack of work. to do a database with most of the relevant mugen work available is on hell of a job.
Tony 3rd said, October 08, 2008, 07:40:47 amOnslaugthtX's mugen site, Mugenation, Street Mugen and many others. etc... the sites you claim are the "new wave" of databases, pratically. i'm talking about stuff from 3,5 years ago. I used to spent 6 hours a day browsing for mugen stuff.and Electrocaid? he is an example of what i'm saying, but you are missing 2 things:1) he does not upload anything. he have every single thing on his PC and fufills requests. its different from uploading and having it available for anyone to download.2) It is all he does. it is how he contributes to the community. HE WORKS HARD TO MAINTAIN HIS DATABASE!As i said: Lack of work. to do a database with most of the relevant mugen work available is on hell of a job.Don't assume I don't know of the sate of the community years ago (hence my comment about Windeagle).OnslaughtX quit, as far as I know MUGENation is still running albeit not updated (their forum is very, very lively you know), and Street MUGEN was taken over by a sleazy porn entrepreneur after a period of lack of updates.
I'm not sure if a forum is the best way to structure your database.What would be nice is a cron-job that would check for a creation to go offline, and would host it if it were to go offline indefinitely (based on some objective criteria.)I feel that if you do this properly, it should compliment the mugen-wiki and serve as the half that is not online.
