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trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms. (Read 3311 times)

Started by Iced, March 01, 2013, 10:58:26 am
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Iced

trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#1  March 01, 2013, 10:58:26 am
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i found this article interesting.

A us couple is fighting for their six year old boy to be identified as a girl and allowed to use girl restrooms and changerooms at school.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/28/us/colorado-transgender-girl-school/index.html?hpt=hp_c4

state has allowed them to change their id cards so that he is identified as a girl and all, but school is refusing to let himher use the girls bathroom and etc. ( They have supplied gender neutral bathrooms for use )

Six year old just seems way way way too young for someone to even have the gender become an issue.  I wonder how much of it comes from the parents. Most kids want to play dressup at an early age but that doesnt usually mean they understand what it means to become transgendered.

TG persons however usually describe being aware of it from an early age, so maybe by supporting it the parents are doing the right thing?

the parents seem odd, describing the child as being "neuro typical"
http://visionarymom.com/an-interview-with-kathryn-mathis/

Rajaa

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#2  March 01, 2013, 11:28:48 am
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Gender neutral bathrooms exist and they want to fight to use a gender specific bathroom?

*Head explodes*

Talk about unnecessary, what they should be doing is fighting to make all public bathrooms gender neutral.

Iced said, March 01, 2013, 10:58:26 am
Six year old just seems way way way too young for someone to even have the gender become an issue.
It's very possible to have gender issues at 6-year-old. A 6 year old knows what genders are -- they're given a gender even before they're even born (if the parents know the sex of the child before delivery).

San2

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#3  March 01, 2013, 12:31:14 pm
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"Transgendered child" is always bad news.
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Iced

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#4  March 02, 2013, 12:55:34 am
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Rajaa said, March 01, 2013, 11:28:48 am

It's very possible to have gender issues at 6-year-old. A 6 year old knows what genders are -- they're given a gender even before they're even born (if the parents know the sex of the child before delivery).

but the way they identify how they know he is a little girl ( likes wearing dresses, playing with dolls, liking pink ) ARE a social construct.  Ive seen little girls that didnt like dolls, wearing dresses and pink, they would play football , tinker with radio cars and play with army dolls, but that didnt make them transgendered.

The Simplistic Fubini

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#5  March 02, 2013, 01:26:51 am
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I think children as young as 6 years old don't have 'defined' personalities. Kid can change considerably in relatively short lapses since their minds are voluble and they don't really know much about the world. Gender identification might become stronger or  weaker as time goes by.

Rajaa

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#6  March 02, 2013, 06:50:32 am
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Iced said, March 02, 2013, 12:55:34 am
Rajaa said, March 01, 2013, 11:28:48 am

It's very possible to have gender issues at 6-year-old. A 6 year old knows what genders are -- they're given a gender even before they're even born (if the parents know the sex of the child before delivery).

but the way they identify how they know he is a little girl ( likes wearing dresses, playing with dolls, liking pink ) ARE a social construct.  Ive seen little girls that didnt like dolls, wearing dresses and pink, they would play football , tinker with radio cars and play with army dolls, but that didnt make them transgendered.

I know genders are a social construct, you're basically repeating what I said. The fact that it is a social construct is exactly why "transgender" exists, because people of a certain sex are expected to be a certain gender because of their genitals. If a child is socially SUPPOSED to be a boy, and they are a girl, by the social standard, they are considered transgendered. It's a term that can only exist in the context of our time. Stupid? Yes. Confusing and limiting for some? Also yes. Feeling like you want to wear a pink dress and feeling like you want to have a vagina are both two different things, the former being instilled by your surroundings, the other perhaps a mix of both  biological or/and social factors, who even knows. The point is that a child can be transgendered.

But going to the bathroom with people of your same gender is certainly not one of those natural things to which one is entitled. That's why I find it strange that the parent's want to make a big deal out using the girls' bathroom to define who their child is, instead of using the available gender neutral bathroom, which should be the norm and will lessen the division that boys and girls think are natural. Everyone mostly does the same thing in the bathroom -- shit or piss -- doesn't need to be any separation.

Jexsam

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#7  March 02, 2013, 09:47:27 am
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How the fuck is a six-year-old mentally and emotionally fit to make that kind of life decision?  What indication do we have that this isn't a phase and the parents are just being a smidge too supportive?

The kid is six.  If he'd rather have a pink bedroom and play with Barbies, fine, but when it comes to school, tell him to fucking deal with it and go to the boy's bathroom.  Then in four years, if he still feels he's a she, congratulations! it's a girl after all.  I can't imagine all this hoopla over a bathroom is having a positive effect on his/her psyche no matter the case.

Rajaa

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#8  March 02, 2013, 01:18:08 pm
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The separation of the genders does have psychological effects on people, especially at young ages.

ExShadow

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#9  March 02, 2013, 01:35:22 pm
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Born a male, use the male restroom.

Born a female, use the female restroom.

Rajaa

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#10  March 02, 2013, 01:40:43 pm
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Born a male, cut your hair and keep your body hair.

Born a female, grow your hair and shave your body hair.

Born a male, smell like a new car.

Born a female, smell like flowers and fruits.

Born a male, like sports.

Born a female, like makeup.

Iced

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#11  March 02, 2013, 02:11:58 pm
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my point before was that , since those are social constructs. wanting to be identified as a girl for liking girly stuff doesnt make much sense.
One of my best friends is a girl that is into cars and sports, sh ealso keeps her hair relatively short, that doesnt make her transgendered, it only makes her a girl that isnt into girly stuff.
By claiming the little kid is transgendered so young seems like a bad step, at that age the kid could have wanted to be a t rex , and for pushing the school and etc to accept all of this maybe the parents are being way too supportive?

DKDC

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#12  March 02, 2013, 02:15:16 pm
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Rajaa said, March 02, 2013, 01:40:43 pm
Born a male, cut your hair and keep your body hair.

Born a female, grow your hair and shave your body hair.

Born a male, smell like a new car.

Born a female, smell like flowers and fruits.

Born a male, like sports.

Born a female, like makeup.
There's a pretty big difference with what EXShadow said though. Males not going into female restroom isn't a social construct, it's to avoid guys peeping on girls and everything that goes with it, it's about keeping your privacy, and this isn't something that depends on your personal choice. All the things you listed is about outward appearance, which is a personal choice.
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Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#13  March 02, 2013, 02:27:01 pm
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Iced said, March 02, 2013, 02:11:58 pm
By claiming the little kid is transgendered so young seems like a bad step, at that age the kid could have wanted to be a t rex , and for pushing the school and etc to accept all of this maybe the parents are being way too supportive?
Or maybe the child is fact transgendered and it goes beyond just liking girly stuff and trying to dismiss that based on the faintest of details is hella misguided?!?!

Rajaa

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#14  March 02, 2013, 02:45:42 pm
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DKDC said, March 02, 2013, 02:15:16 pm
Rajaa said, March 02, 2013, 01:40:43 pm
Born a male, cut your hair and keep your body hair.

Born a female, grow your hair and shave your body hair.

Born a male, smell like a new car.

Born a female, smell like flowers and fruits.

Born a male, like sports.

Born a female, like makeup.
There's a pretty big difference with what EXShadow said though. Males not going into female restroom isn't a social construct, it's to avoid guys peeping on girls and everything that goes with it, it's about keeping your privacy, and this isn't something that depends on your personal choice. All the things you listed is about outward appearance, which is a personal choice.
Guys peeping on girls? Girls can't peep on girls? That argument is invalid.

     Posted: March 02, 2013, 02:48:13 pm
Iced said, March 02, 2013, 02:11:58 pm
my point before was that , since those are social constructs. wanting to be identified as a girl for liking girly stuff doesnt make much sense.
One of my best friends is a girl that is into cars and sports, sh ealso keeps her hair relatively short, that doesnt make her transgendered, it only makes her a girl that isnt into girly stuff.
By claiming the little kid is transgendered so young seems like a bad step, at that age the kid could have wanted to be a t rex , and for pushing the school and etc to accept all of this maybe the parents are being way too supportive?
I already explained how a child could be transgendered. The kid being a T-rex is an absolutely ridiculous example.

DKDC

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#15  March 02, 2013, 03:18:37 pm
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Rajaa said, March 02, 2013, 02:45:42 pm
Guys peeping on girls? Girls can't peep on girls? That argument is invalid.
It's a lot less likely. Not that it isn't likely at all, but comparatively it's less likely. Because the other way around is a lot more likely. That should be obvious to anyone.
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Iced

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#16  March 02, 2013, 03:19:42 pm
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I wasnt really disagreeing with you as much as pointing out that there might be too much eagerness on the parents side.

They have four children , one has brain damage, two have serious autism, the third they refer to as "neuro typical" and then go to the news to show how proud they are of him and to demand that he be treated as a girl.
its just way too weird, what if the kid is doing this just to keep the parents happy? It doesnt seem like a good idea to expose the kid to media the way they are doing.

I am aware transgendered people feel from an early age that their sex isnt right, Ive got transgendered friends. we are however on the first place in know human history where a thing like this would pop out and im wondering if they arent doing the kid a disservice.

Also byakko, gay people use their own gendered bathrooms.
not so cool story: there was a old guy that at a nearby mall spent his days in the man's bathroom, just standing in the urinal pretending to pee,  all to try to peep on people.

Bizarro Santamorphman

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#17  March 02, 2013, 03:23:29 pm
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Iced said, March 02, 2013, 03:19:42 pm
the third they refer to as "neuro typical"
... and? Their other two kids are neuro-atypical. It's a thing?

Iced said, March 02, 2013, 03:19:42 pm
and then go to the news to show how proud they are of him and to demand that he be treated as a girl.
its just way too weird, what if the kid is doing this just to keep the parents happy? It doesnt seem like a good idea to expose the kid to media the way they are doing.
It's just a giant leap in logic to even consider that. The parents should be lauded for being so loving and open-minded, not suspiciously eyed like they're hiding something.

Rajaa

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#18  March 02, 2013, 03:25:31 pm
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DKDC said, March 02, 2013, 03:18:37 pm
Rajaa said, March 02, 2013, 02:45:42 pm
Guys peeping on girls? Girls can't peep on girls? That argument is invalid.
It's a lot less likely. Not that it isn't likely at all, but comparatively it's less likely. Because the other way around is a lot more likely. That should be obvious to anyone.
What about the boys that go into the bathroom with grown men who are attracted to little boys? Or Boys who want to peep on boys? That argument is mostly invalid, no matter which way you put it. And if someone wants to peep on someone, a bathroom sign that says "Girls Only" isn't going to stop them.

Iced said, March 02, 2013, 03:19:42 pm
I wasnt really disagreeing with you as much as pointing out that there might be too much eagerness on the parents side.
Oh,  alright, excuse me, then.

Iced said, March 02, 2013, 03:19:42 pm
They have four children , one has brain damage, two have serious autism, the third they refer to as "neuro typical" and then go to the news to show how proud they are of him and to demand that he be treated as a girl.
its just way too weird, what if the kid is doing this just to keep the parents happy? It doesnt seem like a good idea to expose the kid to media the way they are doing.
If that's the type of history they have with children, then perhaps there is a red flag in this particular case. I think the parents are stupid for even pushing something like letting the bathroom define who their child is -- it isn't a big deal if there's a gender neutral one bathroom for public use. This blows my mind -- they're setting the wrong example for their child. He's gonna be one of those people who joins MFG and starts posting about drinking man juice because he thinks he has to be defined solely by his gender identification. =/

Iced said, March 02, 2013, 03:19:42 pm
Also byakko, gay people use their own gendered bathrooms.
not so cool story: there was a old guy that at a nearby mall spent his days in the man's bathroom, just standing in the urinal pretending to pee,  all to try to peep on people.
:stare:

Titiln

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#19  March 02, 2013, 03:28:21 pm
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Rajaa said, March 02, 2013, 03:25:31 pm
What about the boys that go into the bathroom with grown men who are attracted to little boys? Or Boys who want to peep on boys? That argument is mostly invalid, no matter which way you put it.
all of these possible scenarios are less likely than a dude wanting to look at girls

DKDC

Re: trangendered child fighting battle for use of gender specific bathrooms.
#20  March 02, 2013, 03:29:21 pm
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Iced said, March 02, 2013, 03:19:42 pm
Also byakko, gay people use their own gendered bathrooms.
Yeah, I wasn't making out the peeping part to be the bigger problem, I was talking about the privacy thing (being comfortable about your privacy), Rajaa only focused on that one word (and hammers it again just now because he likes to stray away from the real subject to make sure I'm getting tangled in my own argument, or maybe he just doesn't get it and focuses on the one thing he understands even when it's the wrong one). A male-to-female transgender would, I presume, use the female restroom, right ?
And if you insist on talking about peeping, a gay male would go to the male restroom because he doesn't expect other males, more likely straight, to peep at him and invade his privacy, making him less comfortable. While the same gay male going to the female restroom would invariably draw attention of a sexual nature, one way or another, which would make him uncomfortable.
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Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 03:33:57 pm by DKDC
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