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What character command styles do you prefer? (Read 4274 times)

Started by Seravy, March 08, 2010, 10:19:59 pm
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Poll

Do you like to play characters having both F,D,DF,x and D,DF,F,x (or the same backwards) commands that do a completely different attacks?

Yes, that way it takes skill to enter the command properly.
No, commands for differnent attacks shouldn't be too similar. Having the wrong attack performed is way to high of a risk, even if you are skilled. It's only acceptable if both moves do a similar thing.
No, commands that similar to each other should be avoided in all cases.
I don't like F,D,DF type commands at all.
I don't really like it but a lot of characters and games are like that, so I got used to it.
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Seravy

What character command styles do you prefer?
#1  March 08, 2010, 10:19:59 pm
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Davod Sirloin

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#2  March 08, 2010, 10:32:13 pm
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I don't see the "SF4 made a DF, DF shortcut for dragon punches so it's not an issue" option.

In all seriousness there needs to be some execution difficulty since the Dragon Punch motion is so closely attributed to moves you are likely to use on reversal. (Low level play would be bad if everyone can reversal it 100% of the time)
On top of that, the motion itself requires you to stop blocking briefly, or buffer the command during a block, so there's an inherent risk in using the move as opposed to a reverse-dragon punch which you would probably execute off of blocking quite easily.

There's a lot of soft balancing that can be done just by picking the right commands for the moves.  Guile is extremely hard to rush down with because of it.  The only game Chun-Li's been top tier in has been SF3, where she didn't have charge motions.
Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 10:36:05 pm by Insanius

Van's

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#3  March 08, 2010, 10:47:27 pm
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Yes and it's easy, it doesn't take much skill to pull a F,D,DF when you need it.  And I am not very skilled either, I'm pretty bad compared to most people (who plays seriously) when it comes to fighting games.

Dalkc

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#4  March 08, 2010, 11:07:10 pm
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As long as "F, D, DF, F" and similar inputs don't result a hadoken move I'm okay with it. Rage ensues otherwise. This is why I never could jump install Venom properly on GGXX - I think there should be more tolerance for the dragon punch maneuvers overall.
14 characters.

Seravy

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#5  March 08, 2010, 11:17:50 pm
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By "a completely different attack" I meant firing a projectile instead of a close range attack or another difference around that level, by the way.
If both do a physical special attack of some sort with similar range and effects, that still falls into the
"No, commands for differnent attacks shouldn't be too similar. Having the wrong attack performed is way to high of a risk, even if you are skilled. It's only acceptable if both moves do a similar thing." option (Which is the one I've chosen).

I wonder how to edit polls, I made some misspellings in it.

Cyanide

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#6  March 08, 2010, 11:24:50 pm
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Your list is lopsided towards anti F,D, DF commands. You have one option saying "they're OK" and 3 saying no they're not.

Commands, hard or easy are a balance mechanism, like dampening, or power use. You make reactive commands with a BIG advantage harder to do, something like a projectile, that generally ends a combo, or just hit's from far away and is used for zoning is easy to do as there is generally no advantageous follow up, it's a method of keeping things neutral. Commands that cancel into each other and provide lots of damage should be hard to do otherwise you may as well make combos mash A and run through a whole string.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Seravy

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#7  March 09, 2010, 12:08:51 am
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Quote
Your list is lopsided towards anti F,D, DF commands. You have one option saying "they're OK" and 3 saying no they're not.
That's because I don't see any other reason for the yes answer except for the "needs more skill" one. Is there one? A simple Yes/No might have been better but this way provides more information.

Balancing is important, but that can be done without conflicting commands.
Use anything else instead of D,DF,F,x, then command difficulty is not changed but it is no longer conflicting. The difficulty of F,D,DF,x is not lost that way. You can for example not use the same x button at the end, instead having D,DF,F,y, or use D,D,x or D,DB,B,x instead. Neither is easier than D,DF,F,x but they cannot result in an F,D,DF,x by accident (after walking forward for example)
It is a good idea to have different types of attacks on different buttons in my opinion, for example my Touhou characters have commands ending with a and b button for physical attacks, x,y and c for projectiles, and z for spellcards. That way no matter how much you mess up a command, you won't get a physical attack instead of a projectile or the other way around.

Also, using commands for difficulty is something I don't like because AI ignores it. So it is only harder on the human player, giving even more advantage to the AI on top of the zero reaction time.

Cyanide

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#8  March 09, 2010, 12:19:50 am
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Well coded AI should not be instant reaction, or even always do the right thing.

Also, how do you even SLIGHTLY deal with that when you have 2 versions of the same attack, or 3, as is common in capcom games where speed or damage increases as you change button. That is how a lot of fighters work. QCF+X/Y/Z are all the same attack with slightly different effects in some manner and there are advantages and disadvantages to each.

Also, it's really hard to get this through to you as i know very well that you like your way of doing things and refuse to do it any other way whatsoever due to the fact you don't play some of the more well known fighters and stick with the touhou stuff.

You need a wider base of experience with a number of fighters before you can make a claim like this about commands or attacks. Without that experience, all you have is speculation and in the bulk of fighters, there are features that balance things out. Not being able to do a DP at the drop of a hat doesn't necessarily make you bad as there are often basics that beat out air moves, or guard counters, or evasions. You need to play the games and understand that it shouldn't be "everything at once" but that there is a balance with how many moves things have and what situations they're used in, including the occasional waste of time and finger action.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

The Simplistic Fubini

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#9  March 09, 2010, 12:51:49 am
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Seravy you need to play fighters. You won't understand the people in a forum with Kyo and Ryu on it's homepage without doing so.

mAdLaX

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#10  March 09, 2010, 05:45:42 am
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Actually it's much easier for me to do F,DF,F, and D,DF, F... It has the same command moves in KOF... :D

Nomechy

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#11  March 09, 2010, 07:17:10 am
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DB,HCB,DF

what is your problem with real fighters? you have a trauma or something?

oh btw, there is actually fighter out there that uses D, D for the "dragon punch"/anti air motion

Yeah, that works.

No witty quotes though.

Seravy

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#12  March 09, 2010, 09:24:45 am
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what is your problem with real fighters? you have a trauma or something?
They have no lolis and no magic spells, so I'm not interested, that's all. Show me one that has them and I'll play it.
So far I have played mugen, GGX, IAMP, SWR and UNL.
Anyway, I've made this poll to understand people better.

Mgbenz

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#13  March 09, 2010, 09:29:46 am
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Cyanide

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#14  March 09, 2010, 09:30:10 am
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Dude, if you want to understand us PLAY SOME OTHER FIGHTERS.

GGX is the closest you've got there, and lets be honest, although accepted GGX is about insane combo's rather than some of the things we've been talking about.

Try KoF, try streetfighter, try SOMETHING that's not touhou. You don't have to play it for more than a few days to get some idea of how the system in it works and the fact that commands have varying difficulties for a reason.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

Seravy

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#15  March 09, 2010, 10:30:53 am
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EFZ it will be then, I wanted to play it anyway. Oh wait, does that even have an English version? I won't be learning much if I can't even read the readme files and movelists. If I remember correctly that's why I didn't play most games like that I had.

Cybaster

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#16  March 09, 2010, 10:47:27 am
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Come on, just download Winkawaks with random KOF games, and play with one girl of the Psycho Team if you want a loli.

Seravy

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#17  March 09, 2010, 11:08:50 am
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Winkawaks with random KOF games
I found Winkawaks, but I couldn't find any KOF games for it on any rom sites so far...

Cybaster

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#18  March 09, 2010, 11:25:41 am
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Winkawaks uses neogeo roms (as well as CPS and CPS2).

Nomechy

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#19  March 09, 2010, 12:18:58 pm
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Seravy said, March 09, 2010, 09:24:45 am
Quote
what is your problem with real fighters? you have a trauma or something?
They have no lolis and no magic spells, so I'm not interested, that's all. Show me one that has them and I'll play it.
So far I have played mugen, GGX, IAMP, SWR and UNL.
Anyway, I've made this poll to understand people better.
ABK has one loli with magic :V

also, you can just look movelist up from internet if the game is in japanese

Yeah, that works.

No witty quotes though.
Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 12:24:50 pm by EVIL CLOWN ASH

Seravy

Re: What character command styles do you prefer?
#20  March 09, 2010, 04:14:36 pm
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ABK? Which game is that?

I also can't get Winkawaks to work...I've downloaded two different KOF roms from two sites and neither works. The audit says some files are missing from the zip, and even the ones present are not correctly named.
Time to install EFZ, at least that works.

Quote
also, you can just look movelist up from internet if the game is in japanese
Cool, I found one for EFZ on GameFAQs, I didn't expect that.
Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 06:29:08 pm by Seravy
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