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Volzilla & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.  (Read 10127 times)

Started by RobotMonkeyHead, June 27, 2012, 01:22:28 am
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RobotMonkeyHead

Volzilla & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#1  June 27, 2012, 01:22:28 am
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Ok so here's the situation in a nutshell, for anyone considering reading this.  I made a few edits of characters, one of which was Duke Nukem.  I was approached by Volzilla (representing TOPS) who asked me if he could make my edit official over at MMV where him and TOPS co-admin. I happily agreed, and asked him what I should do, to which he responded take Duke down from anywhere but MMV, so people would have to come to his site to get the character.

I politely refuse, and chaos ensues a I defend my points of view on hosting.  Out of general respect I kept everything private until this last message, which was just so over the tops I had to share.   For educational and entertainment purposes, enjoy.






Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 07:07:22 am by RobotMonkeyHead

RobotMonkeyHead

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#2  June 27, 2012, 01:22:59 am
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VOLZILLA:----------------------------


hi, i run a website w/ the original creator of duke and was wondering if you'd be interested of instead of updating him how you have been, to do it officially instead (ie, to be shown off and hosted at our place)

btw, have you ever considered breaking into general creation as opposed to editing?



RMH;----------------------------

Very cool.  I'll go for that.  What do you need me to do?

As far as ground up creating,  these edits are my first shots at anything really, I'm just trying to get a feel for it.  Eventually yeah, I'll probably create characters.



VOLZILLA:----------------------------

would it be too much to ask you to send your duke topic to the recycle bin for now and keep whatever work you do on him private until actual release?

that can maybe be like your initiation to maybe working with the team at http://mugenmultiverse.fanbb.net/

regarding ground up creating, what do you think of comic content? that what we work with the most really. i know i can talk whoever into you officially updating luke cage and avalanche.




RMH;----------------------------

Yeah that would be a bit much.  I'm really new to character creating, and I need all the feedback I can get.  If you want me to pop up a wip topic over at multiverse, I'll certainly do that, but I would prefer to keep him out in the open.

As far as working on other characters goes,  I'm not really looking to get involved with a team or anything.   I'm just trying to fix up some of the busted characters that are in my roster, that's all.   But like I said, if you want me to set up a wip & eventual release topic over at multi-verse I'll go for it.


VOLEZILLA;----------------------------

you'd get feedback along the way, but more of in a private nature.

but the way you are doing it now, the final product is not really a surprise to whoever. not to mention, technically, you are warehousing duke away from where the original creator hosts it.

regarding the other part, you are not a comic content kind of guy? and i thought you said you wanted to break into all new creation?



RMH;----------------------------

Ok so you are asking me to trade open feedback from anyone and everyone willing for private feedback from a few people?  If the private feedback is solid and consistent maybe, but I need to see some examples of the work of the people giving me feedback before I decide to make that exchange.  My main concern is getting the character right.

As far as 'warehousing' him goes, I'm not hosting the original character, I'm hosting my edit.

And hell yeah I love comic book characters.  They are some of my favorites in my roster.  Tops' new Carnage is the shit.   When it comes to ground up creating a character tho, I'm an artist.  I've been drawing my whole life, so when I eventually do break into creating, it certainly won't be comic book characters, at least not at first, it will be original shit.

I really do appreciate the invite to the team tho, it's really cool to be offered that, and I don't want you to think I don't appreciate it.



VOLEZILLA;----------------------------

hate to tell you this, but hosting an edit and hosting the original still the same thing when it come to warehousing. think about it, where would your edit be without the original work? not to mention you are improving whatever when you edit right? well, the general mugen user will obviously pick the improved version over the original now. and when they do that, they are not going where the original author intended to DL their work.

we're a brand new place, we want people coming to our forum for our DL's as it will help us grow. hence why trying to figure whatever out with you. regarding other edits, i dont give a shit. let their authors figure their own thing out :P especially cvg. the reason we formed our own place is due to them fucktards screwing us over.

the other reason trying to figure whatever out with you is that i think you'd be good to work with. how you work w/us, be it a full team member, or a vip affiliate up to you. i do hope that maybe you'll allow me to point you to a few things before you are ready to begin all that original work you speak of though

regarding duke, i can set you up with dopefiend (he originally wanted to fix up duke too), cybaster, and tops (maybe me too since i'm kind of coordinating everything) toward that official end i initially spoke of.





RMH;----------------------------


   Look, I hear where you're coming from on the hosting characters thing, and I'm not trying to change your mind.  It's just that my opinion on the issue is different.  Personally I don't see a problem with anybody hosting anything at all.  I feel like as long as credit is given where credit is due, then it's all good.  I would be happy to know that my creation was being hosted on 50 different websites.  Let it spread.  Let people share, edit, host updates make stuff cooler.  It's just good for the community that way, and everyone benefits. I don't know that's how I feel about it.  It's not like anyone in the mugen community created Ryu from scratch.


   If I wanted more people to come to my site, what I would start by doing is a better job of showcasing the characters than other sites.   Make them more official looking, and be present for feedback, Q & A, and updating. Also put links to your site in their folders.  That way if people want the newest version they'll have to go to your site.  Plus personal access to the original creator is something no other host site will have.  Discuss strategy, game play, combo's, techniques against certain other character types, all those little intricacies of a character that only the creator really knows about, and as long as other people are giving credit when they edit, anyone will be able to find their way to your site from those 'warehoused' characters.  They're like free advertising.  Don't try to make yourself more popular by making other people less popular by asking them not to host shit they work hard on.  That's just bad form in general.  Even if it was your creation to begin with, once you release it into the public it's theirs, and you really have no control over it other than what other people are willing to give you, so just try to make your own site cooler, and let people ride.

Quote from: volzzilla on June 12, 2012, 01:26:04 pm

    the other reason trying to figure whatever out with you is that i think you'd be good to work with. how you work w/us, be it a full team member, or a vip affiliate up to you. i do hope that maybe you'll allow me to point you to a few things before you are ready to begin all that original work you speak of though
----
   I'm kinda flattered here.  I'm retardedly new to character creation and I would definitely appreciate pointers from you as far as that goes, that would be the shit, and thank you.  I think I would also enjoy doing some work with you guys too.  Right now I have a lot of projects going, and I don't want to spread myself too thin, but in the future I might be willing to do get involved in some projects.  Give me a few months tho.


Alright as far as Duke goes, I'm just going to continue fixing him.  I know Cybaster know's his shit and TOPS work has style, so I would be willing to do a WIP thread on your site, posting updated GIFS of moves and stances and shit, build some anticipation for the beta, then collect feedback and do an Alpha. But as far as taking him down from the guild goes, or exclusive hosting goes (only hosting him at your site once he's done), I'm not really into that.  If that doesn't work for you, then sorry I'm out. But if you don't mind letting him be free to the public, I'm in.  No BS that's where I stand.  What do you say?

-RMH AGAIN

Ok you know what, after a little consideration, I will change my stance on one thing.  If you do want to run a wip thread, I'll take him down from the guild till his release.  I do recognize that TOPS put a lot of work into this character, but Its been unplayabe ever since I got into mugen a few years ago, and I would be surprised if it were ever even fixed at all honestly.

Anyway, you can tell TOPS I am grateful for his work, and would certainly appreciate his input to my edit.  Thanks again.  Hope I'm not coming off as too much of a dick here,  It's just that as an artist free expression is something I really value.


Volezilla;----------------------------

glad you sent this as not big on what you said before.

i can state w/ a pure fact for tops (who also an admin at mugenmultiverse) that he'd like the char only hosted at mmv. make release topics anywhere and everywhere you want, but w/ the DL to the mmv entry.


RMH;----------------------------

Can you put me in contact with TOPS?
 


Volezilla;----------------------------

i told him to contact you (and now he'll be the only one talking to you about whatever as after all this, i'm not sure i want to have any more contact with you), but i do not like that you made that topic in mugen discussion as uncool how you took private talks to the public like you did.

so now we're in a position to be ridiculed over it all by whoever might do it.

and on top of that, you only listened to who you wanted to listen to in the topic.

i tried to be nice and reach out over whatever and you do that to me and us? highly highly uncool.


RMH;----------------------------

Whatever princess,  If you can't handle me, that's fine with me.  I'm over here busting my ass in my free time, on an awesome edit of what was a useless glitch ridden character to share it with the community, you see it and like it and decide to come accuse me of hurting the creators website by hosting him, tell me I somehow owe the edit to you so you can be the only one out there hosting it?  Then basically call me an asshole for checking in with other people to see if I'm in the wrong?  How old are you?

You have nothing to lose, and plenty to gain by letting other people host him, but for whatever reason you're to greedy to see that.  Nobody was going to come to your site to download Duke anyway because before I touched him he was completely fucked. You know I'm right, now study my words and change your damned mind before you go another day with your head up your ass over a video game that's supposed to be fun and communal.  Learn to enjoy the freedom.  And I very specifically did not mention you or anyone else's name in the thread, so you're only going to get ridiculed by me, and that's over unless you want more.     

I'll gladly talk to TOPS about it because his opinion is really all that matters to me here.

And don't worry I'll still put a link to your site and plenty of credit in his file anyway.



Volezilla;----------------------------

princess? fuck you asshole. i was gonna leave it to tops til that f'n line.

and your topic did more than that. it put us in a position to be ridiculed. not to mention you only listened to who you wanted to listen to, disregarding when people said should talk to the author...which you know you could do as you DL'd the latest work by tops.

and the only thing we have to gain and only way to gain it is when people come to our new forum to DL whatever. we dont gain shit by people DLing an edit someplace else. spin whatever you want, but that is the truth. no one gonna care about a readme. sounds to me like you care more about getting recognition off of editing other people work. hope you take notice of the last phrase there, other peoples work.

specifically tops in this case. and my opinion should hold a little bit of significance due to i'm his closest friend in mugen, and co-admin with him too. not to mention from the get go i tried to be cool with you.


Jmorphman

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#3  June 27, 2012, 01:32:43 am
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RobotMonkeyHead

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#4  June 27, 2012, 01:39:26 am
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After writing that, Volzilla blocked my PMs so I couldn't respond, which was fine with me.  At that point I got in contact with TOPS hoping he would be a bit more reasonable, and this is what took place:

RMH-------------------

Hey, so as you can see I've been doing a lot of work on your Duke Nukem character.  At the risk of being redundant, I will say that I'm very obviously not trying to take credit for your work.  I just saw a character that was broken as hell for a long time, and decided to fix him up.  I was happily surprised with what I'll call his potential, and I've put quite a lot of work into him.

Recently I was approached by somebody who asked me to do sort of an official release thing with him over at their site, (your site?), to which I agreed.  They then asked me to take it down from the Guild which I politely declined, because I really need the feedback.

Said person then accused me of warehousing your character, and screwing you over by doing my edit.  I didn't feel like this was the case, and after a lot of explaining, I basically told this person to go fuck themselves.  I'll send you a transcript of the conversation if you would like, but I'll tell you it get's pretty hairy.

I wanted to talk to you because you created him originally, or mostly anyway, and I would like to pay you some respect with my edit.  Whatever form that will take is up for discussion if your up for it.
Either way, kick ass vision for the character, and I'm happy to be able to rehabilitate him.


TOPS------------

well seems like this whole thing has become a mess so let me try to sort this out, if the guy you are refering to is volzilla then I know all about him and he was trying to do me a favor because I don't frequent most mugen forums very much any more. however he went about it the wrong way. I only wanted him to tell you that as of a week ago from what I read of what your doing with him I like what I see and aslong as you don't complealty overhaul the cheracter and are just only fixing these bugs and chopy animations in him then I'm all for your edit. however I do wish you had contacted me first I have a website, youtube and am active half the time at mmv so there was ways.

that being said, it's in the past now and doesn't matter what matters is getting this duke updated and making sure he's only released on respectable forums. I don't want to see him warehoused anywhere. if your cool with only releaseing him on forums and giveing me credit as it seems you have stated then lets do this.

when you get a chance I would like you to visit mmv as this should be his main home though.

also I have had some ideas for a long time to add to him and if you could do that aswell that would be awesome.



RMH-----------------

Ok, I would really like to work with you on this edit,  I think we could both benefit, and the character would come out better.  I do have to say tho, that I really have no problem with anyone hosting it anywhere, and I really don't want to limit it to any certain forums.  If that is not ok with you, then I hope we can still work together anyway.  What I would like to do is this.  Take him down from my thread on the guild, start up a wip topic on your forum, and build some anticipation for a beta release, then collect feedback and do an alpha.  This should get you the recognition and attention you want, and after that I want to release him to the public totally free for hosting with a link to your forum in his folder.  If that plan is tolerable to you, then I'm ready to do this.

Either way here is a link to my thread over at MFG where you can check out the latest version of his progress.  He was updated yesterday, or should I say early this morning.  Cheers


TOPS-----------------

if you could take down your thread here as you say that would be great and help promote him on my forum until release. upon release I have no problem hosting him on others forums as long as he is first hosted at mmv for a week or so first and you also agree only to host him on mugen forums ie places like mmv, cvg, mugen guild, scruffy ect and not on a wearhouse site.

RMH-----------------

before you make up your mind tho, I would urge you to read the top of page 4 of the thread I sent you.  I discuss my point of view on my edits and their hosting, and this is where I stand.  Like I said, I hope we can still work together, and either way I have a lot of respect for you as an artist and programmer.  I've been doing both of those things myself for quite a long time, and have a clear sense of how much fucking effort it requires.  You're Carnage is the shit, especially.  Straight off the 94 marvel trading cards exactly the way he should be.  Nicely done, and best wishes to whatever you decide.  Cheers

(rmh again)---

One thing I forgot to mention is that I gave volzilla permission to host any or all of my edit's on your forum.  That still stands.  Whatever you decide about Duke, you can feel free to host my edit if you want.  I would love to make it official and get a ton of your input, but I'm not sure who else you are worried about hosting it.  If you do want to make it official I will certainly link to your forum everywhere I post him, I just really don't want to get into telling other people they can't host him if they choose to.   For one thing, to me it seems like good insurance/backup in case your forum ever goes off line or you stop hosting him.  That way he is still out there, and people can still enjoy him, not to mention if he has a link and credit he is still spreading your name if you decide to pop up again in the future.   Anyway, just wanted to add that so you have a clear idea of where I'm coming from.




TOPS-----------------

well I agree with you for the most part and he should be on alot of forums for back up purposed and spreading the word about me and my cheracters as well as out reaching to as much of the community as possible that might want to play him. but there is just one thing that keeps urking me when you say "anywhere" I like the idea of him being on any MUGEN FORMUMS but not on peoples own individuel websites and not on fileshareing/wearhouseing sites. puting your cheracter on these just spreads them around to anyone and everyone and they have no idea where they came from who made the cheracter and actually takes away from the trafic that good respectable mugen forums might other wise be getting. so now you see my point on keeping him on forums and not wearhouseing him or atleast I hope you do.

thank and I hope we still have an agreement on this.

please sign up at mmv so that we can talk more and I will tell you my ideas on dukes update.




RMH-----------------

Ok, I think we may have something here.  I'm really glad you're into getting him out there for as many people as want to have.  I really do think letting him go totally free anywhere will do even more to spread word about both of our work (and your forum of course because that's where you can be found)  I would like to see him go everywhere, let anyone who wants him have him, I say the more the better.  That way if some douche tries to take credit for him, everybody else already knows who is really responsible for him.  I mean you made him for people to play with, right?   Maybe we could do an intro for him with your name/forum site on it? or put that stuff in the ending or something?  That way there is no mistaking it, and everyone who either starts up arcade mode with him, or beats it, gets blasted with your forum logo.  I don't know I just kind of have a problem telling anyone they can't play with him or host him if they want to, just make sure the credit goes where it's due.  that's my main thing, and I certainly stick to it.


As far as setting up an account over at MMV, I like your site for sure, but I don't know if I trust Volzilla with my e-mail address.  That dude was all sorts of accusatory towards me, and I basically had to defend my right to host my own edits with him.  He actually stuck his head in the sand and blocked me on the guild so I can't even PM him now.  I don't think I'll be giving him my email address any time soon.  I do have some ideas as to how we can work around that if you want, but first I've got to know from you that he can be free to the public.  As far as giving him a week or so to host on Just your forum goes, hell give it a month.  That sounds fair to me.


TOPS-----------------

can you please tell me or better yet copy and paste what transpried between you and volzilla? seems to me like you two just got off on the wrong foot and there was misunderstandings, I would like to try and patch things up if possible.

as far a your right to edit work goes my beliefe is that it's fine so long as you be sure to always give credit to the orginal creator in this case being me which you said you will do and to let me know in advance what your doing which you didn't. like I said you could have contacted me before about it, heck maybe this is why volz got so mad about it who knows. as for me I'm not mad I just wish you would have contacted me and made your intentions clear from the get go to avoid this mess.

anyways please respect my wishs about him only being released on forums, trust me that he will reach out to pleany of people especialy being on every mugen forum and not just a couple. I just don't want him wearhoused at esnips or whatever place because this takes the attaintion away from the creator and forums. where as having cheracter only on forums brings attaintion to the creator and the forums and brings about good feed back and discussion which is what we as creators want.

this way the forums get there trafic and are happy I get pleaty of feedback which I love and you as an editor will get the most recontion.

once you send me a copy of what happend between you and volz I will try to patch things up but if not possible then I guess we will have to think of something els if you don't want to be at mmv but I'm not going to be here much either so we need a plan.


RMH----
yeah here is a copy of what transpired between me and volzilla:
***at this point I sent exactly the 2nd post on this thread, plus the message I had written to respond to Volz before I knew he blocked me, which was this:

RMH;----- NEVER GOT TO SEND

TOPS is totally cool in my book but being his friend doesn't make you any cooler.  From the get go you've been accusing me of hosting someone else's work, like I'm doing something wrong.  I'm not doing shit wrong by posting edit's and giving credit.  People do that all the fucking time.  I think you threw away an old toy, saw me take it out of the garbage and clean it up and play with it, and now you want it back all for yourself, you spoiled child.  You've only tried to be as cool with me as you have to to get MY edit all to yourself, and you accuse me of trying to get recognition off of other people's work? Bitch please.  Nobody gave a fuck about duke's busted ass and they weren't about to start anytime soon, but now that I cleaned him up, you want me to hand him over to You, so YOU can use MY work to gain recognition for Your fuckin forum you ass backwards hypocrite.   "other people's work."  MY work.  Your forum.
Everybody know's I'm not taking credit for my the characters I edit.  I'm, very plain about that.

And did you even read that thread?  Your name is nowhere on it.  I said in the first post that I'm not going to name names, and I'm not.  And who is cherry picking here?  There is one person who said he know's some creators who would be offended by other people hosting edits of their work, and everybody else supports my point of view, again ass backwards hypocrite. cherry picking? yeah.  And if there's something you are worried about being ridiculed for, maybe it's because the way you're going about trying to make yourself popular is fucked up in the first place.  Maybe they wouldn't be wrong to ridicule you.  Ever think of that?  Maybe they would be right.  Maybe you should rethink your point of view on community and sharing and where you would be without it.


RobotMonkeyHead

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#5  June 27, 2012, 01:55:43 am
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TOPS--------
ok now I understand what happend between you two, it was very difficult before only hearing small tid bits of this convo from you and volz but now I get it. ok here's where volz went wrong he shouldn't have said your wearhouseing just simply from you puting him on other repsectable forums, wearhouseing comes from puting him in media fire and esnips and the like where the cheracter are just left abadoned with no place for feed back or growth and people just download and that's it. so he was out of line there.
however I think even more so you were out of line by calling volzilla names and it's no wonder he took offence to that further more you called my cheracter broken trash that no one would play. sorry man but that urks me, on one side you say you love my work but on the other side you call my cheracters trash? so what is it man? if I were talking to you then I might retailate too, I know for sure duke was not trash and people loved playing him he was one of my most popular cheracters and if you don't believe me just check youtube there are literally 100s of videos of different people useing him in there mugen.

so volzilla was offended you said this about my duke. now is that to say he was perfect of course not. I'm well of aware of his gliches and chopy animation in some moves, but to say he's unplayable man you went to far. and like I said I'm kind of mad now.

I like your idea about making some read mes in him of me the creator's wishs upon release and I'm glad your taking down the mugen guild thread (I hope you do that soon by the way because I still see it up). but please learn to be more respectful if you truly like mugen and know what creators do all the time for FREE just to get there work out to you fans then you need to be more respectul. all we as creators ask is for reconition and feed back from our months of work it's not much. and volz started out being nice just getting you to see these things and heck he even wanted your help on further projects......

I think you owe both me an volz an aplogy and if you can be more respectful I'm sure volz can be more cival and that way you can still join the mugen multiverse.

(TOPS again)----
did you get my last message? what's it going to be? and I thought you were taking the duke nukem thread down here, you told both me and volzilla you would remove it. anyways this is my last pm to you on this place because I don't frequent here much as I said and I need to priortize my time with admin duties over on mmv. please make an account there so we can talk more if not then just instant message me at metaliccrystal@live.com.

later.

RMH-------

Ok there's a lot here so I'm going to take it bit by bit.

T.O.P.S said, June 17, 2012, 09:50:11 pm
ok now I understand what happend between you two, it was very difficult before only hearing small tid bits of this convo from you and volz but now I get it. ok here's where volz went wrong he shouldn't have said your wearhouseing just simply from you puting him on other repsectable forums, wearhouseing comes from puting him in media fire and esnips and the like where the cheracter are just left abadoned with no place for feed back or growth and people just download and that's it. so he was out of line there.

   You're right, he was wrong to accuse me of warehousing, because that's not what I'm doing, but even if I was, I said that I have no issue with it.  How can you or he expect me to adhere to your own moral standards over my own, and the way I see it, most of the rest of the communities?  I've been more than thorough in terms of explaining my stance on the issue to him in emails, on my thread, and by hosting links of others discussing the point in depth (page 4 of my thread).  I even went as far as to open up a discussion topic to check in with the guild to see if I was in the wrong, (which vol took major offense to and berated me for) and the vast majority sided with me.  That to me is sufficient, I will carry on with my current point of view on the subject, which as always remains open to reason. 

T.O.P.S said, June 17, 2012, 09:50:11 pm
however I think even more so you were out of line by calling volzilla names and it's no wonder he took offence to that further more you called my cheracter broken trash that no one would play. sorry man but that urks me, on one side you say you love my work but on the other side you call my cheracters trash? so what is it man? if I were talking to you then I might retailate too, I know for sure duke was not trash and people loved playing him he was one of my most popular cheracters and if you don't believe me just check youtube there are literally 100s of videos of different people useing him in there mugen.

You mean to tell me Volzilla is upset because I called him a princess and he had to call me a 'fucking asshole?'  He told me he didn't want to have anymore contact with me at all.  What is more offensive than 'I want nothing more to do with you at all ever."?  I think he deserved to be called a princess and that's exactly how I think he was acting, and still is.  What I said to him was way less offensive than just cutting someone off completely.  At least he had a chance to come back from that.  I think he's behaving like a spoiled child who doesn't get their way and then goes and locks themselves in their room so no one can talk to them.  I have no respect for that kind of behavior.  I know you have your peace to keep, and props on your diplomatic efforts, that's admirable.   

As far as duke goes, I just watched a couple you-tube videos of him and am totally surprised to see him working.  I've never seen him work.  I downloaded him about 2 years ago, and again recently to give his 2.0 version a try, and on both occasions  every single animation he goes into just keeps looping indefinitely.  On top of that all of his items are Xed out and unusable at the start of every round, no matter which palette is selected. And by some of the comments I got from other people it's been the same experience for them.  I've literally never seen a working version of him other than my own until just now 5 minutes ago.
 
So hopefully now you can see that I meant exactly every single word of everything I said, and I almost always do.  When I used him he was completely dysfunctional garbage,  which I didn't write publicly mind you (though I certainly would not have felt out of line if I did, because from my point of view it would have been completely true). I don't know if he works on an older version of mugen or what, but I had never seen it happen.  When I fixed him I was surprised to find afterwards what I considered overall a good and fun character, and so that's what I wrote publicly, but before I touched him, I figured everyone else thought he was completely unusable too, so that's what i wrote to vol, and that's why I responded the way I did on my thread.  Seriously. Download the version from MMV and open him up in 1.0 and try him out in arcade or vs mode.  You'll see what I mean.

T.O.P.S said, June 17, 2012, 09:50:11 pm
so volzilla was offended you said this about my duke. now is that to say he was perfect of course not. I'm well of aware of his gliches and chopy animation in some moves, but to say he's unplayable man you went to far. and like I said I'm kind of mad now.

Actually, from within my experience, no I didn't go to far.  It was very plain fact.  But now that the misunderstanding is becoming clear, I doubt you can still be pissed.  I certainly see how you would take offense if your character actually did work, which apparently he did in maybe on older version of mugen? 

T.O.P.S said, June 17, 2012, 09:50:11 pm
I like your idea about making some read mes in him of me the creator's wishs upon release and I'm glad your taking down the mugen guild thread (I hope you do that soon by the way because I still see it up).  but please learn to be more respectful if you truly like mugen and know what creators do all the time for FREE just to get there work out to you fans then you need to be more respectul.

Don't talk down to me about respect, or tell me how I should behave if I really appreciate mugen.  I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life, I'm just expressing how I feel.  I've been an artist my whole life, I paint, draw, write, play music and a I've been a programmer for over 15 years. I know what it's like to work ass off on a project from sun up to sun down for 5 years and have people take it for granted,  I know EXACTLY what you do for free, and I know you do it because you like to, not because your laboring for my sake, so spare me the lesson.

T.O.P.S said, June 17, 2012, 09:50:11 pm
all we as creators ask is for reconition and feed back from our months of work it's not much.
no, recognition I'm giving you and I have been giving you from the start.  What you are asking for is for is me to agree to telling other people they can't host my remix of your creation, and that, you can not have.  If you could have dealt with that fact, we would be working together right now.

T.O.P.S said, June 17, 2012, 09:50:11 pm
and volz started out being nice just getting you to see these things and heck he even wanted your help on further projects.....
I think you owe both me an volz an aplogy and if you can be more respectful I'm sure volz can be more cival and that way you can still join the mugen multiverse.

yes and I started out being nice to volz.  I was very respectful, even when he accused me of doing a disservice to you guys' website by 'warehousing'.  If you re-read our discussion you'll see that I was nothing but patient and constructive with him all the way through until the very end where he basically flat out accused me of screwing both of you over and told me he didn't want to talk to have any more contact with me (basically because he couldn't change my mind on the hosting issue).  At that point, fuck it, I told him how I felt, and I meant every single word of it.   I don't owe anybody an apology for anything, and I certainly don't regret anything I've said. 

Now to be fair, I was wrong to tell vol your character was useless to Everyone, apparently some people can use him fine, but my position at the time was based also on comments I got from other people and was not formed carelessly. It was just an honest mistake, which I admit. 

To be COMPLETELY fair about ALL of this, I think if this conversation were made public, which I personally have no problem with at all (but will not unless you really want me to), I think most people would side with me here.
I'm clearly not trying to get you ridiculed, or I would have, because believe it or not I do have respect for your creative efforts. I just don't express it by behaving the way you want me to.

So look, I'm just taking characters that are broken in my roster, fixing them and posting them, that's it.  I don't have a problem with people warehousing, and so far neither of you have convinced me to.  I mean you no disrespect, but I have my own opinions to follow.
You offered me two things. 
First, an exchange:  You 'make my edit official', in exchange for me allowing you to tell people they can't warehouse him. 
Not an unreasonable offer, but for all the points we've discussed I will respectfully decline.
Second, to join a team over at MMV.  An upstanding  offer on your part, but it's more than I am looking to get into at the moment.
Thank you for your time, And I wish you the best of luck in your future mugen endeavors.


Despite our disagreement, no hard feelings on my end.

And as for vol, if he ever wants to talk to me again, I'm neither going to apologize nor demand an apology from him.  I don't have a grudge or a regret over any of it, and if he's ok with that, so am I.


***After this I did the following:
1)  Set up multiple chars release thread and Duke Nukem WIP thread over at MMV to help out anyway.
2)  Set up my multi chars edits thread over at MMV to offer more support, despite bitchery.

***multi chars edits thread taken down by TOPS within 5 minutes of going up with a PM from TOPS that read:
    'had to remove your post wearhouseing is not aloud here please ask volzilla to properly add these edits to the forums database for download.'
    [note that the Duke thread was not taken down, despite being identical in form to this thread]

***I left Duke thread up anyway, and made an edit in it clarifying TOPS' wish to not have it warehoused,
     and my wish for anyone and everyone to host it.

*** responded to TOPS PM with a quote from himself:
"ok here's where volz went wrong he shouldn't have said your wearhouseing just simply from you puting him on other repsectable forums, wearhouseing comes from puting him in media fire and esnips and the like where the cheracter are just left abadoned with no place for feed back or growth and people just download and that's it. so he was out of line there." remember writing that?


TOPS-------------

yea I do so what? you put them on mediafire. come on man get with it most mugen forums don't allow you to be hosing your stuff on fileshareing websites, we are like that cvg is like, scruffy was like that. you spend to much time on the guild.

we have a perfectly good data base here that you can upload to and do this properly.

by the way I read your reply to me on the guild and I have to say I am not pleased. I can see why volz thought you were a dick. your pretty egosentric. even if my duke was as bad as you orginaly thought he was, calling him trash is just a low blow. no creator would want to hear that. you could much more politly say this cheracter is not that great and needs vast improvments or what ever you don't have to be a dick.

I'm sorry that you are as stubern of a person as you are, if you had been different it would have been fun to work with you but sadly you are not.


RMH------

T.O.P.S wrote:
yea I do so what? you put them on mediafire. come on man get with it most mugen forums don't allow you to be hosing your stuff on fileshareing websites, we are like that cvg is like, scruffy was like that. you spend to much time on the guild.

Then you were outright lying in your original Email, and it's better that I turned you down because it only would have been a matter of time before you were trying to get all sanctimonious with me for uploading my other works. Like I said, I'm just fixing some characters and hosting them for people to enjoy. Maybe you should open your mind a bit, and re-read some of those links on my thread over at the guild.

T.O.P.S wrote:

we have a perfectly good data base here that you can upload to and do this properly.

I'm not telling you you can't. I encourage as many people to host my stuff as I can. Go for it, do it all proper like.


T.O.P.S wrote:

by the way I read your reply to me on the guild and I have to say I am not pleased. I can see why volz thought you were a dick. your pretty egosentric. even if my duke was as bad as you orginaly thought he was, calling him trash is just a low blow. no creator would want to hear that. you could much more politly say this cheracter is not that great and needs vast improvments or what ever you don't have to be a dick.


I'm not surprised that you're not pleased. I haven't been pleased with either of you two since you saw my work and tried to guilt me into handing it over to you. Calling him 'trash' was not a low blow, it was an accurate assessment at that point. He would have been bound for the recycle bin within 15 minutes of download because he was completely un-playable. Get over yourself. (and you call me egotistical.) You could take the best characters out thee, add a few glitches like that to make them unusable, and the majority of people are going to trash after 1 play and never fix it or see it work the way it was meant to. And 'egotistic dick',? Talk about 'low blows', christ, at least I'm only insulting your video game character, but hey that can change if you want.

T.O.P.S wrote:

I'm sorry that you are as stubern of a person as you are, if you had been different it would have been fun to work with you but sadly you are not.

Yes, I have my own moral criteria that I stick to, and no I'm not going to bend it to your will. If that makes me a dick in your eyes, it's only because you can't control me. Here is what you need to understand. I am going to do what I want, and what seems right to me. My actions are not yours to decide. If you can't accept that you don't have to, but that's where you and me end.

and again best of luck in the future.

*** Removed Duke WIP thread, and requested my account be deleted.

TOPS-----------

what ever ass hole, there are many more people that agree with my views more so then yours, it's just on the guild there's more people that are dicks like you and don't truly respect the mugen works of others. you want to go around calling mine and others cheracters trash fine. watch how much longer mugen lasts if you and what ever butt buddies you may have that have your same disrpectiful attitude continue in that manner. We will all either quit or make all of our creations private. dealing with people like certainly makes me want to quit and I know many other creators that have gone private and only create for them selves do to as holes like you.

so if that's what you want then by all means continue in the way that you do you little disrespecful prick.

RMH----------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiPbxvHp6ng

Congratulations, you just went public over at the guild!

(RMH again)----

This is what happens when you treat people like shit.  Study this and learn from your mistakes you super cool, way awesomer than me person you.  I know there will be things here that are hard to admit to yourself, but trust me it will be worth it in the long run.

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=142379.0

again, please delete my account.
Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 03:04:28 am by RobotMonkeyHead

TTTTTsd

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#6  June 27, 2012, 01:59:33 am
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Man I'm glad I never got into hot water like this whenever I released anything I edited(very few things : P). Either way, this is.....interesting, I suppose.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!

RobotMonkeyHead

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#7  June 27, 2012, 02:09:33 am
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I certainly realize that I had my part in this whole thing, and there were a few points where I could have been kinder or more diplomatic.  I've learned a few things from all of this, one of which being if I don't agree with someone on hosting issues to just politely end the interaction before it gets to this point.
Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 02:14:38 am by RobotMonkeyHead

Jmorphman

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#8  June 27, 2012, 02:11:51 am
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RobotMonkeyHead said, June 27, 2012, 02:09:33 am
I certainly realize that I had my part in this whole thing, and there were a few points where I could have been kinder or more diplomatic.
I don't think they really deserve being treated very kindly or diplomatically. They're a bunch of pricks. Your analogy of a thrown away toy is spot-on.

TTTTTsd

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#9  June 27, 2012, 02:15:27 am
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Truly though, your last response was quite......good. Either way, this was a good read. Very informative. I suppose it's a good thing I only edited Sanders' and POTS' stuff, huh? Either way, keep up the good work, I do check on your work frequently. You've done a lot.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!

rednavi -RETIRED

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#10  June 27, 2012, 02:16:57 am
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This is why I dropped Mugen Infantry when it was still teh shit. Aztec didn't let me host my stuff at Club Syndicate back then because of his grudge against him and I had to make my choice. I chose the second site as my host because SyN never limited me like that.

Iced

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#11  June 27, 2012, 02:19:33 am
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Situations like those make the community smaller instead of bigger, people should be trying to help each others out, not trying to limit each other in order to further their causes. 
I guess there are a lot of people that wouldnt ever post in forums outside of their owns out of whatever this could be called.

Randomish

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#12  June 27, 2012, 02:20:01 am
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Quote
And as for vol, if he ever wants to talk to me again, I'm neither going to apologize nor demand an apology from him.  I don't have a grudge or a regret over any of it, and if he's ok with that, so am I.

I doubt, Volzilla will read this at all, your chat is pretty much over unless he un-bans you to try and make amends.

You should have left the Volzilla thing at you might join at one point and done.
Volzilla may have been speaking out for a friend, but he is in no position to claim stuff for TOPS regardless of if they are friends. TOPS has a voice.


The way this is going will either end in TOPS not replying or just turn into another flame war between various.
I wouldn't be surprised if a similer thread will open up on their forum.

..On a slighty different note, when did Volzilla break away from CVG and start MMV?
Welcome to the House of Fighting.

TTTTTsd

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#13  June 27, 2012, 02:24:30 am
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On a side note, I hope Volzilla and Tops read this. I hope to god they read this and immediately regret being stuck up and arrogant. Or maybe I don't. Maybe I hope they continue on a downward spiral together. Nonetheless, I hope this topic gets spread around beyond MFG, but that's idle dreaming.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!

aokmaniac13

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#14  June 27, 2012, 02:27:53 am
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RobotMonkeyHead

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#15  June 27, 2012, 02:29:06 am
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Jmorphman said, June 27, 2012, 02:11:51 am
RobotMonkeyHead said, June 27, 2012, 02:09:33 am
I certainly realize that I had my part in this whole thing, and there were a few points where I could have been kinder or more diplomatic.
I don't think they really deserve being treated very kindly or diplomatically. They're a bunch of pricks. Your analogy of a thrown away toy is spot-on.

cheers man.

Killer Kong? said, June 27, 2012, 02:15:27 am
Truly though, your last response was quite......good. Either way, this was a good read. Very informative. I suppose it's a good thing I only edited Sanders' and POTS' stuff, huh? Either way, keep up the good work, I do check on your work frequently. You've done a lot.
Thanks, I'm glad you found it informative, that's really the point.  As for me, I'm just going to continue editing. I learn so much that way.  Glad you've been checkin in, and enjoying the edits to.  More to come!   

Rednavi said, June 27, 2012, 02:16:57 am
This is why I dropped Mugen Infantry when it was still teh shit. Aztec didn't let me host my stuff at Club Syndicate back then because of his grudge against him and I had to make my choice. I chose the second site as my host because SyN never limited me like that.
Yeah Syn just went back up right? I've been really pleased with a lot of stuff I've seen over there.  You guys do great work as far as I'm concerned.

Iced said, June 27, 2012, 02:19:33 am
Situations like those make the community smaller instead of bigger, people should be trying to help each others out, not trying to limit each other in order to further their causes. 
I guess there are a lot of people that wouldnt ever post in forums outside of their owns out of whatever this could be called.
Yeah you know making the community smaller is the reason I wasn't going to mention any of this to begin with...  Do you think I should take this thread down?  I don't want to negatively impact the community, but I do wonder if i'm not just putting a sign post by a land mine here.  What do you think?


Randomish said, June 27, 2012, 02:20:01 am
Quote
And as for vol, if he ever wants to talk to me again, I'm neither going to apologize nor demand an apology from him.  I don't have a grudge or a regret over any of it, and if he's ok with that, so am I.

I doubt, Volzilla will read this at all, your chat is pretty much over unless he un-bans you to try and make amends.

You should have left the Volzilla thing at you might join at one point and done.
Volzilla may have been speaking out for a friend, but he is in no position to claim stuff for TOPS regardless of if they are friends. TOPS has a voice.


The way this is going will either end in TOPS not replying or just turn into another flame war between various.
I wouldn't be surprised if a similer thread will open up on their forum.

..On a slighty different note, when did Volzilla break away from CVG and start MMV?

Yeah I doubt volz will ever read that too.  I feel the same way about tops tho.  I won't cut either of them off completely, but if all they are going to do is cuss at me, there isn't much point to talking to them until that shit stops.

I don't know when Volz broke away from CVG. All he said to me was that he was sick of them being fucktards to him.


Killer Kong? said, June 27, 2012, 02:24:30 am
On a side note, I hope Volzilla and Tops read this. I hope to god they read this and immediately regret being stuck up and arrogant. Or maybe I don't. Maybe I hope they continue on a downward spiral together. Nonetheless, I hope this topic gets spread around beyond MFG, but that's idle dreaming.

I'll send a link to TOPS over at MMV, seeing as he hasn't deleted my account.  That way if either he or volz want to defend themselves, they totally can.

Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 02:53:19 am by RobotMonkeyHead

Cyanide

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#16  June 27, 2012, 02:31:58 am
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One of the founding tenets when guild switched was that "Once something is on the internet it is public and we are not going to police it"

Your work is up, it will be hosted. I have loads of files sitting on that ucoz site, in fact i bet many people do. I can't stop them, why should i try. The work is on MY site as well. When i update people will have to go to MY site first, things like ucoz are past that point when people are just randomly searching, however if my work is publicised properly by me, they won't use that stuff.

You can't control the internet, you really really can't control what other people do, and mediafire is a perfectly valid hosting method if you don't have your own hosting.


In M.U.G.E.N there is no magic button

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

blahh

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#17  June 27, 2012, 02:38:46 am
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Iced

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#18  June 27, 2012, 02:46:35 am
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RobotMonkeyHead said, June 27, 2012, 02:29:06 am
Yeah you know making the community smaller is the reason I wasn't going to mention any of this to begin with...  Do you think I should take this thread down?  I don't want to negatively impact the community, but I do wonder if i'm not just putting a sign post by a land mine here.  What do you think?

while i wouldnt have posted it whole, you already did, so its already out there and no way or reason to put the bunny back in the box.

In a community of artists and coders, people go by their works and by how they treat each others, so people with shoddier work are sometimes very well respected and that gets them help and etc, how you treat others says a lot about you on those situations, and you end up reaping what you sow.
Not only the situation with you as the other things jmorphman posted paints a really gritty picture, I think its only their words hurting themselves.

Valodim

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#19  June 27, 2012, 02:48:25 am
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RobotMonkeyHead said, June 27, 2012, 01:55:43 am
To be COMPLETELY fair about ALL of this, I think if this conversation were made public, which I personally have no problem with at all (but will not unless you really want me to), I think most people would side with me here.

:S

then again, he was being kind of a dick in his last posts, and maybe people need a reminder here and there about what happens when we let control freaks impose their will on others. all in all, well handled.

RobotMonkeyHead

Re: Volzaill & TOPS vs RobotMonkeyHead made public for entertainment purposes.
#20  June 27, 2012, 02:51:12 am
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Iced said, June 27, 2012, 02:46:35 am
RobotMonkeyHead said, June 27, 2012, 02:29:06 am
Yeah you know making the community smaller is the reason I wasn't going to mention any of this to begin with...  Do you think I should take this thread down?  I don't want to negatively impact the community, but I do wonder if i'm not just putting a sign post by a land mine here.  What do you think?

while i wouldnt have posted it whole, you already did, so its already out there and no way or reason to put the bunny back in the box.

In a community of artists and coders, people go by their works and by how they treat each others, so people with shoddier work are sometimes very well respected and that gets them help and etc, how you treat others says a lot about you on those situations, and you end up reaping what you sow.
Not only the situation with you as the other things jmorphman posted paints a really gritty picture, I think its only their words hurting themselves.

I agree, (and am certainly omfortable with everything I've said myself).  Maybe in the future tho, I'll try to contain the fire rather than letting it spread...  ;)
Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 05:06:55 am by RobotMonkeyHead
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