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Death Battle (And sprite fight animations) (Read 1754104 times)

Started by Long John Killer, April 09, 2015, 03:59:16 AM
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2361  August 01, 2020, 11:55:32 PM
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So neither of them.  Both Dragon Ball Super and Sailor Moon don't do much with either of them, despite their on-paper huge potential.  Seriously, Beerus does freaking nothing beyond setting a bar for Goku and Vegeta that got past a while ago, yet still he doesn't contribute much to the plot.  And Galaxia just kinda does what EVERY Sailor Moon antagonist does; brutally murders the Sailor Scouts, in this case melts Mercury and Jupiter into puddles of blood and instantly disintegrates the rest, then gets offed by Sailor Moon by a hand wave. (Not even, really, in the manga she self-terminates rather foolishly.  Sorta, will get to that in a moment.)

So for more details, DBC said they're using the manga Galaxia, not the anime one, which fine, whatever, they both were done at the same time but ended up with different versions of her.  So no transformation for her.  They are however basing feats on the Sailor Moon stage plays and radio dramas.  Which....right, those are things Takeuchi has done that are relevant to the canon, but what odd deep cuts to pull from.  I'm less familiar with them, but since the announcement Monday I went and re-read the final Sailor Moon arc to refresh my memory.

Beerus is so ridiculously dead.  One, she's immortal and immune to destruction.  Two, taking the manga version at its strongest, she also essentially has the Cosmos Crystal that Sailor Cosmos (Final form Sailor Moon at the end of time with the silliest story to be there; omnipotence among omnipotence, but she was feeling sad so she wanted to watch her past self at a pivotal moment to see if she made the right choice in life.) has.  Which in her own terms has the Lambda power of everything ever.  It's, well, omnipotence.  I say essentially though because she hasn't finished the rite to make it, but she still has every single Star Seed in the universe except Sailor Moon's with her all at once.  It's less Beerus versus Galaxia, it's Beerus versus the entire Sailor Moon-verse, minus Usagi herself.  Which hell, she has Sailor Saturn's power, Hotaru could just use the power of "Everything I want to die dies, including me but I get insta-rezed".

I suspect a low-balling of both of them, but even if they grant Beerus being able to destroy her body, he can't destroy the immortal, indestructible Star Seed and she'll just be reborn.  Though I suspect he can't even do that.  But despite being the lord over all destruction capabilities, her end in the manga still has her body somehow evaporated by touching Sailor Moon when she wasn't even fighting Galaxia, and moved on to Chaos?  Then her Star Seed just joined the rest at the center of Creation.  It's not really explained, but then the addition of Chaos and Sailor Cosmos at the very end, like, answered 3 questions and brought up 3000 more, so it's a perplexing end to the series.
Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 12:00:39 AM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2362  August 03, 2020, 08:37:38 PM
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The match up for the next Death Battle was also announced in that DBX video. Beerus will be facing Sailor Galaxaia from Sailor Moon.

I get the feeling that what will happen is one fan base will be extremely salty after that fight (Probably the DBZ fans... doesn't the series only have two wins to their name?)

2 loss according to this

https://deathbattle.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Andross7/Death_battle_series_win/loss_record

I guess they never counted Goku Rematch with Superman
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2363  August 04, 2020, 10:48:45 PM
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Beerus' preview is up.

That domestication of cats trivia doesn't seem right.....are we not counting Egyptian cats as domesticated?  Just a weird line to throw in there.


Galaxia's turn now.


And now the full thing.  And I'm disappointed once again.  That end reasoning is as good as their He-Man vs Lion-O one.
Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 07:29:29 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2364  August 10, 2020, 07:43:59 PM
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Maybe they can expound on the result in the next Death Battle Cast... because it made no sense to me, especially considering that Galaxia has the Sailor Crystal, which makes her near immortal.

Whatever. The next fight has Zuko and Shoto Todoroki facing off. I've heard of both series they are from (Avatar: The Last Airbender and My Hero Academia), but I'm not horribly familiar with the fighters myself. I think Zuko might have the edge being a fire bender and all.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2365  August 10, 2020, 07:49:58 PM
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I'm sitting here trying to figure out how they wrapped "God ki equals resistance to star seed removal because of Buu" when Goku and Vegeta got no such advantage with excessive more god ki.  This ending feels very much like He-Man versus Lion-O.  X can beat Y's body, but Y is infinite and X can never match up to Y's infinite power output.  X wins.  What?  So Galaxia was faster, infinitely more powerful and durable, had hax that Beerus' counter didn't make sense with and still lost?  Ok, lets say all that.  Then Galaxia respawns and Beerus is that much more drained.  Undestroyable star seed, hello?  Tried to break one with the molecule cutting sword in the first arc, similarly tried to break Venus, Moon and Endimion's around the time Black Lady showed up, didn't work?

Also really didn't see anything from the plays or radio dramas, so wondering why they bothered bringing those up as crucial in DBC prior?
Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 08:05:01 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2366  August 10, 2020, 11:29:10 PM
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IDK, it seemed pretty clear cut to me.  They've got two characters of ostensibly infinite levels of strength, capable of outputting immeasurable and unlimited levels of power.  With so much of their "true strength" being vague speculation and hearsay, the only truly comparable feat they have would be that they're both capable of affecting the entire observable universe with single attacks.  Ergo, the win would wind up going to the one whose universe is bigger, thereby requiring a greater level of power to achieve the same result.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2367  August 11, 2020, 12:23:27 AM
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But they're not both infinite.  In fact, only one of them goes out of their way to multiple times to establish how there is no limit to their output of power.  Beerus is too strong for his universe, but not to a never-ending point going beyond that.  Heck, in that case, Dragon Ball's universe has a defined end (In Toriyama fashion, probably in a comical sense a la Futurama), Sailor Moon's by association of being based on our own does not.

And it's still just overlooking the one who can't die was the one they killed.  Kinda just glossed over the whole universal constant the star seeds are.  They said Sailor Moon destroyed Galaxia's in the manga, but....no, she absolutely didn't, it joined all the rest in the Galaxy Cauldron to get re-rezed.
Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 12:26:49 AM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2368  August 14, 2020, 04:30:38 PM
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Whatever. The next fight has Zuko and Shoto Todoroki facing off. I've heard of both series they are from (Avatar: The Last Airbender and My Hero Academia), but I'm not horribly familiar with the fighters myself. I think Zuko might have the edge being a fire bender and all.

Honestly, it depends on how Zuko can handle ice. I'm sure Zuko could retract Todoroki's fire right back at him, but he could combine both elements together. I mean, Kitara would most likely be the closest thing to an ice-bender (being a water-bender and all), but have there really been any good instances of that classic case of Fire vs Ice in Avatar, since Todo's more used to using ice more?
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2369  August 17, 2020, 08:34:56 PM
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Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 11:35:42 PM by Person Man
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2370  August 24, 2020, 07:28:39 PM
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It's out.

Hmph.  Some holes to poke in it.  Basing all firebending temperature to literally the girl in the comics who melted the door there with her first ever firebending by accident, when we know for a fact by Azula's basic existence that that's not how that works, there's a multitude of firebending temperatures, is a wrong measure to go off of.  Likewise just giving Zuko lightning just cuz doesn't seem fair, even if they then didn't include it?

Next match is Flash versus Archie Sonic.  This is....a particularly weird one.  I guess similar in vein to Beerus versus Galaxia, because Ben has covered in Death Battle Cast for the Mario vs Sonic rematch why they didn't use Archie Sonic, explicitly because how broken Archie Sonic is, and went on to break down how he trounces D.C. entire Speed Force.  But then, Galaxia was a sure win, had it in the bag, then the full episode just overlooked things and downplayed others so eh, whatever.

If Ben's calcs from a while ago still hold, Sonic wins because speed I guess controls all matter and concepts of energy everywhere for all eternity, I dunno.  I stopped reading Archie Sonic when I was young and they introduced the Judge Dredd Sonic timeline.  And Sally had a future vision skinny dipping in Tang with her brother to see her and Sonic's children as King and Queen.  And Knuckles was lime green.

Archie Sonic's kinda freaky and a little messed up.
Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 07:32:43 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2371  August 25, 2020, 10:13:58 AM
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Likewise just giving Zuko lightning just cuz doesn't seem fair, even if they then didn't include it?

I'd figure they just gave Zuko that because he deflected it in the show, and that and creating are two different things. I figured they added him using lightning because they gave Toph all of her powers throughout the series (from Avatar to Korra). Unless he could do it in Korra? I've stopped watching that after the first season, and maybe a couple of episodes in the second because the creators didn't know what to do with it, which I mean they basically said "Yeah, don't pay attention to that First Season, watch this one instead!".  Anyways, I'd figure Todo had the win because of his ice side and Zuko had little experience in dealing with that.

I have no idea on Archie's version of Sonic other than the first Mario vs Sonic fight. They're using Wally West instead of Barry Allen this time, I guess because of his cocky attitude. And their clips are kind of messed up, since I thought Barry was one of them in that preview (the one that does the around the world part where he destroys Lex Luthor's Brainiac armor with full speed and dies, then comes back in the Justice League.)

And Knuckles was lime green.
Okay, that's the weirdest thing I've seen from that description.

Edit: Also, they got the real Zuko to do the voice. That's pretty cool.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2372  August 25, 2020, 10:54:33 PM
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I have no idea on Archie's version of Sonic other than the first Mario vs Sonic fight. They're using Wally West instead of Barry Allen this time, I guess because of his cocky attitude.
I suspect they're specifically doing a Wally vs. Sonic fight because they've already raced against each other before:

Well, not Sonic exactly, but clearly meant to be an analogue of Sonic

This is Krakkl, Wally West's imaginary friend, who he used to communicate with over a radio. Except, turns out, he wasn't imaginary. He was real all along! He and his species are literally made of radio waves and is from a pocket dimension known as Kwyzz.

Sadly, Krakkl sacrificed himself in order to give Wally West a speed boost to save both their worlds from the villains who were making Wally and Krakkl race against one another.

And their clips are kind of messed up, since I thought Barry was one of them in that preview (the one that does the around the world part where he destroys Lex Luthor's Brainiac armor with full speed and dies, then comes back in the Justice League.)
Nah, that's Wally West, he's the one and only Flash in the DCAU. You can tell because he has an actual personality!

At least, a personality that's original, and not shamelessly stolen from your former sidekick who replaced you, yes I'm talking to you, Barry Allen, you had nothing to go on for years after you came back, so they resorted to stealing shit from Wally to make you even slightly interesting. Fucker should've stayed dead. >:[
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2373  August 25, 2020, 11:18:33 PM
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How "We make up our own rules" does the Speed Force and/or other "Forces" Wally gets reach?  I mildly recall in I think the Rebirth reboot with Hawkgirl beating in Lex Luthor's skull and everyone on the planet turned to fish, Wally's Still Force....reversed that or something?  Because sure, total lack of motion reverses magic.

I believe Archie Sonic can just, like, erase the fundamental laws of gravity from being a thing in the universe anymore.  Somehow.  Comics.

And Knuckles was lime green.
Okay, that's the weirdest thing I've seen from that description.


Actually think I still own this one this shot came from somewhere in the attic, issue #100 of Archie Sonic as I recall?  That shot's burned into my brain with his crazy mecha-Hitler granduncle in the back there.  Also, like, the following issue was Alolan Knuckles here and his girlfriend returning to their run-down Manhattan apartment that they apparently own.

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Chaos_Knuckles#Pre-SGW

You know, Archie Sonic's stupid.  Like, monumentally stupid.  But enjoyably so?  I kinda sometimes wish the games were more like the comics, because Sonic's games are....unfavorable at times, to put it lightly.  And I don't want to dislike Sonic, growing up with him.
Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 01:28:10 AM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2374  August 26, 2020, 11:58:57 AM
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This is Krakkl, Wally West's imaginary friend, who he used to communicate with over a radio. Except, turns out, he wasn't imaginary. He was real all along! He and his species are literally made of radio waves and is from a pocket dimension known as Kwyzz.

Sadly, Krakkl sacrificed himself in order to give Wally West a speed boost to save both their worlds from the villains who were making Wally and Krakkl race against one another.
That's actually a much better idea of why the Death Battle would happen. The more you know.

Nah, that's Wally West, he's the one and only Flash in the DCAU. You can tell because he has an actual personality!

At least, a personality that's original, and not shamelessly stolen from your former sidekick who replaced you, yes I'm talking to you, Barry Allen, you had nothing to go on for years after you came back, so they resorted to stealing shit from Wally to make you even slightly interesting. Fucker should've stayed dead. >:[

I'm getting my Flashes mixed up with Injustice. I haven't watched the animated Justice League in a long time, and I assumed it was Barry in that, and I thought Wally was the one with the weird hair sticking out from where the mask should be. I believe that was Kid Flash, right?

Actually think I still own this one this shot came from somewhere in the attic, issue #100 of Archie Sonic as I recall?  That shot's burned into my brain with his crazy mecha-Hitler granduncle in the back there. Also, like, the following issue was Alolan Knuckles here and his girlfriend returning to their run-down Manhattan apartment that they apparently own.

He looks like an alien in the first shot with a weird necklace in the first shot, and the second one reminds me of Captain America with the whole "Hail Hydra." deal. ...Also why do they own an apartment? I guess the more questions I ask, the more questions I get with this series.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2375  August 27, 2020, 02:26:21 AM
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How "We make up our own rules" does the Speed Force and/or other "Forces" Wally gets reach?  I mildly recall in I think the Rebirth reboot with Hawkgirl beating in Lex Luthor's skull and everyone on the planet turned to fish, Wally's Still Force....reversed that or something?  Because sure, total lack of motion reverses magic.
The Speed Force can do whatever is needed for the plot, and that's about the only rule there is.

I'm getting my Flashes mixed up with Injustice. I haven't watched the animated Justice League in a long time, and I assumed it was Barry in that, and I thought Wally was the one with the weird hair sticking out from where the mask should be. I believe that was Kid Flash, right?
In the comics, Wally West was once Kid Flash, Barry Allen's sidekick. Then he grew up and Barry died and Wally took over the legacy.

In the DCAU, the Flash that appears in Justice League is Wally, with no direct references to there being another one before him. But there's some small references that could support that argument: there is a Kid Flash costume in the background of the Flash Museum in one episode, and there's the Titans of it all, which is its own bag of worms.

The Titans get directly referenced in Static Shock, so a team by that name definitely exists in the DCAU, and Speedy (Green Arrow's sidekick) shows up in one episode of JLU, with the same voice actor and general design as the Speedy in the 2003 Teen Titans cartoon (but the JLU looks older; no longer a teen, but a full grown adult). And guess who also showed up in the 2003 Teen Titans? The Wally West version of Kid Flash, voiced by the same VA as the Flash in Justice League (and given that the cartoon also features a Robin who is probably Dick Grayson, the timing would all work out; TT03 would have to be set years and years before Justice League, because Dick Grayson had already grown up and become Nightwing by the time the League is formed)!

But that does not necessarily mean that the 2003 Teen Titans cartoon is set in the DCAU; for one thing, it's by a completely different creative team, with wildly different tones, designs, and approaches. Indeed, I don't think there's many people out there who include the 2003 Teen Titans cartoon as a DCAU show; no serious retrospective of the DCAU covers TT03, etc. And so there's not really a strong argument that the Speedy and Kid Flash appearances are anything more than fun nods to the other respective show. At most, one can say that there's a team known as Titans in the DCAU, and it potentially had Speedy and a Kid Flash in it at some point, and that Kid Flash might've been Wally West.

... except there are also references to Wally West getting his powers as an adult, and his backstory seems like a combination of Wally West and Barry Allen: he has Wally's appearance and personality, but he has the same job as Barry and seemed to get his powers in the same way as Barry does (of course, Wally got his powers in the comics in a freak accident that exactly duplicated the circumstances that gave Barry his powers, so maybe that doesn't mean much). Similarly, in the Green Lantern episode of Superman, Kyle Rayner was given traits of both Kyle from the comics and the Silver Age Green Lantern, Hal Jordan. So Wally might be the same way; the character itself is unquestionably Wally West, but has enough backstory elements from another character that make their comics history not applicable in certain aspects to the DCAU version.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2376  August 27, 2020, 05:33:01 AM
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That....doesn't particularly narrow it down, because that's kinda also Archie Sonic's deal why this is a pairing.  There isn't considerable rhyme or reason why events conspire with his powers outside Chaos is all and Sonic is Chaos.  I was thinking noteworthy examples of what Flash actually does with his plot...weapon? (Is there are reverse terminology for "plot armor"?)  Like his Still Force canceling planet-wide AoE transformation spells.

I thought the general consensus was that the 2003 Teen Titans were at one early point considered to be an extension of the DCAU, via Static Shock's crossover with Batman also referencing them in a future crossover that disappointingly never happened, but the extremity of the style differences (And I guess conflicting threats; if we're gonna assume the Teen Titans show took place in the DCAU, then how did no one notice Trigon at ALL?  Plus some other much more minor nitpicks but still obstacles like Vandal Savage being immortal and indestructible yet still would be among the dead?) had them back away from it and let it be its own thing.  Besides, going off a single line in a crossover with a different property to validate another one is about as convincing as CN's multiple uses of DC superheroes in their original programming like Powerpuff Girls as canon to the DCAU.

...To which hey, is somehow bizarrely relevant in this crazy alternative universe we must find ourselves living in, because CW's now doing a live-action PPG reboot in the vein and I think same universe as the Arrow and Supergirl t.v. show, with the same staff, so I just don't know what we all did so wrong to Mister Mxyzptlk to make this our reality we live in?
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2377  August 27, 2020, 06:20:46 AM
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And guess who also showed up in the 2003 Teen Titans? The Wally West version of Kid Flash, voiced by the same VA as the Flash in Justice League (and given that the cartoon also features a Robin who is probably Dick Grayson, the timing would all work out; TT03 would have to be set years and years before Justice League, because Dick Grayson had already grown up and become Nightwing by the time the League is formed)!

That's the Wally I was thinking. The one in yellow who gets Jinx to be his girlfriend at the end (and no, I hate the idea of the actual last episode being the LAST episode (stupid cliffhanger)). And yes, you are right! The Robin in the 2003 version of Teen Titans is Dick Grayson! One episode where he comes across his mini self, like how Batman had that magical biggest fan in Brave and the Bold who got the show cancelled, and his name was Nosyarg Kicd, and they decide to call him Larry for short. But all the events would make sense for the show to eventually come into the Justice League (at least come close to it anyway).

Anyway, the Wally I looked up was the one with the weird hair, which makes sense for the yellow (to match the rest of the outfit imo), but all red with the hair just looked really odd to me. Also, I just thought of the Young Justice version. Dang it!
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2378  August 27, 2020, 06:42:21 AM
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2003 Teen Titans had some extremely weird rules about what they could and couldn't use; one aspect of which is the uncertainty about who the Robin is in the series. They could only hint at it with things like the weird Bat-Mite esque stand-in, or recreating the iconic "Robin swears an oath to fight crime" thing from Robin's Golden Age origin, except they had to crop the scene to hide Batman because they weren't allowed to show him or reference him at all directly.

Even still, I remember back in the grand old days when message boards were huge, there were still a lot of arguments about whether the Robin was Dick or Tim (or possibly even Jason somehow), even with all those minor references. It would've been so much easier if they were allowed to just actually say any of this stuff in the show! The DCAU ran into the same kinds of issues too, the infamous Bat-embargo caused them to be unable to reference anything relating to Batman (outside of Batman himself, cuz he was grandfathered into the show), which led to an episode about Barbara Gordon retiring and becoming Oracle getting scrapped, as well as them not being able to include any Batman villains in the Legion of Doom.

I thought the general consensus was that the 2003 Teen Titans were at one early point considered to be an extension of the DCAU, via Static Shock's crossover with Batman also referencing them in a future crossover that disappointingly never happened, but the extremity of the style differences (And I guess conflicting threats; if we're gonna assume the Teen Titans show took place in the DCAU, then how did no one notice Trigon at ALL?  Plus some other much more minor nitpicks but still obstacles like Vandal Savage being immortal and indestructible yet still would be among the dead?) had them back away from it and let it be its own thing.
There was a Teen Titans show in development from the DCAU crew in the late 90s (specifically focused on the OG crew of Robin, Kid Flash, Aqualad, Wonder Girl, and Speedy), but it was shelved early on in development in favor of Batman Beyond. Nevertheless, that might be the specific version of the Titans they were referencing in Static Shock; after all, they're specifically only referred to as "the Titans", which implies they've dropped the "Teen" from their name (much in the same way that The New Teen Titans suddenly became The New Titans once most of the characters could no longer convincingly be called teenagers, though of course the "New" Titans had started off pretty old for teens to begin with!)
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2379  August 29, 2020, 07:35:09 PM
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In the DCAU, the Flash that appears in Justice League is Wally, with no direct references to there being another one before him. But there's some small references that could support that argument: there is a Kid Flash costume in the background of the Flash Museum in one episode, and there's the Titans of it all, which is its own bag of worms.

Not only that in one scene you can also see the helmet of Jay Garrick in the Museum, and that makes everything even more confusing.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2380  August 31, 2020, 08:36:47 PM
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