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Gameplay mechanics (Read 43092 times)

Started by JustNoPoint, April 02, 2014, 04:19:27 pm
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JustNoPoint

Gameplay mechanics
#1  April 02, 2014, 04:19:27 pm
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3 Punches and 3 Kicks

-dashing.
-air/ground recovery after knockdown (though more cinematic then the standard 'flips and floats'.
-SFA3 juggle system
-air blocking
-throw attempt/whiff animation, done by fwd/bwd+2P / 2K or LP+LK
-safe fall/throw escape/throw recovery).
-Guard meter/guard crush.
-Stun meter.
-!NEW!-Comeback Technique (after successfully performing a safe fall/throw escape, come right back into p2's face and counter). ~ There are two kinds of Comeback Techniques. Offensive, and Defensive. Offense costs 1 bar. Defense costs half a bar. Offense =D+2K Defense = DF or DB+2P during fall/land from fall
-SFA's Zero Counter (costs 1 bar).
-SFA2's Custom Combo (costs 1 bar, like EX's Excel Combo. No 2 bar/3 bar version). Length of time could change depending on super selected as well MP+MK
-SFEX's Guard Break (slow, unblockable attack costs 1 bar).
-EX Specials
-Multiple Super Combos for each character, but only 1 available ingame due to a selection (similar to SF3) different supers would allow more stock and/or different length super bars
-Super moves get a more powerful version when lifebar is low
-HP + HK for taunt
-start for movelist/pause
Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 01:57:48 am by Just No Point

Balthazar

Re: Game mechanics
#2  April 02, 2014, 04:26:52 pm
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Thinking about it, Zero Counter costing 1 bar would also be weird when you have that single, long SF3 Superbar. You'll be completely out of stock after using one! Thought that might be your own fault, then.

JustNoPoint

Re: Game mechanics
#3  April 02, 2014, 04:30:48 pm
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Did I forget anything we may have added since the list was 1st composed and agreed on?

Some thoughts/notes

SFA3 juggle system should be slightly tweaked to allow a limiter. In SFA3 some characters can keep the opponent in a state so they can never recover in the air. The way the SFA3 juggle system worked was that as soon as the attacker went into an idle state for even 1 tick on the ground while juggling the opponent had the opportunity to recover. So the limiter should allow something (damage? number of hits?) to finally allow the opponent to recover.

Throws - I don't see a reason why we cannot have throws done both ways. 2p/2k and LP+LK

Zero Counter- f+2P or 2K while blocking? QCB+attack?

Guard Break- requires a super stock, deals massive guard damage, slow, done with what motions? d+MP+MK?

Taunts should give some kind of special property like SF3?

JustNoPoint

Re: Game mechanics
#4  April 02, 2014, 04:32:01 pm
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Balthazar said, April 02, 2014, 04:26:52 pm
Thinking about it, Zero Counter costing 1 bar would also be weird when you have that single, long SF3 Superbar. You'll be completely out of stock after using one! Thought that might be your own fault, then.

Since we have so many things needing super bars I think the lowest amount of bars a super art should have is 2. The highest would be 5?

Balthazar

Re: Game mechanics
#5  April 02, 2014, 04:39:29 pm
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I think I can agree on having 2 bars as the minimum, so even if you pack your major wallop Shin Shoryuken,
you can dish out a Comeback Technique or a Guard Break and not be completely emptied.

5 sounds like a lot though, I think 3 as the maximum is just fine.

Sounds good about putting a limiter to the SFA3 juggle system (though I, personally, am not all that familiar with it (read;not a pro with it).

Guard break with d+MP+MK sounds good to me, and I would suggest d+SP+SK for the Comeback Technique.

Both throw commands can be implemented if they don't complicate with other commands (and ofc only if both commands perform the throw attempt that can whiff when too far away).

JustNoPoint

Re: Game mechanics
#6  April 02, 2014, 04:42:43 pm
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With 2 bars being the smallest now I think 4 should at least be the maximum. BUT TBH that will be determined in the balancing of the super moves themselves I suppose. Another good thing about the super art itself is the desperation aspect you added to it. A super could be really worth keeping if the desperation version is really awesome.

Umezono

Re: Game mechanics
#7  April 02, 2014, 04:44:13 pm
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JustNoPoint

Re: Game mechanics
#8  April 02, 2014, 04:48:57 pm
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I just want to note: DIZAMN! Balthazar. Your stars are blinging in this board with your added mod status =p

Umezono said, April 02, 2014, 04:44:13 pm
I don't think this is worth the effort to balance
Good, less work and idea engineering!!!

Omega

Re: Game mechanics
#9  April 02, 2014, 04:50:12 pm
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Super art should be 2 and 3 for the maximum like Balthazar said. 5 is just too much.

What about the dashing? Just including ground dashing or also air dashing? Air dashing could be like pushing/forcing yourself to go forward on air like in some VS Games. Also what about KO's? Not mentioning any of it? This game could use a normal K.O and a finest K.O like in the CVS Games.

JustNoPoint

Re: Game mechanics
#10  April 02, 2014, 05:03:44 pm
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No SF game has had airdash. The mechanics come from SF1-4 and EX. As for FINEST KO, I haven't thought about it. It's not ruled out I guess. But not a priority either. That's not really a mechanic. That's a special extra like the crumple anim from getting killed by a jab or sexy KO

c001357

Re: Game mechanics
#11  April 02, 2014, 05:20:41 pm
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suggestions: remove guard bar. i find it superfluous if youre having guard break. just buff throws/make them faster. if you could use sf2 throws and throw softening thatd be great, haha (i wouldnt recommend putting both throw breaks and recovery from being thrown at the same time.)

if youre using a3 style recovery... the reason why some characters can keep them juggled was mostly because of vc. a lot of the time the player could tech, except that during the tech the time invulnerability lasts is shorter than the time control is given. with a2 ccs, i think that already cuts out a lot of the bs you might have remembered in a3 matches. but who knows?
on that note, stun would be too much with both ccs and a3 juggles, personally

dunno what the comeback technique is. is it an attack? (edit:nvm)
Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 05:39:53 pm by c001357

Balthazar

Re: Game mechanics
#12  April 02, 2014, 06:13:36 pm
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I haven't even made use of my admin possibilities yet :P

Yeah airdashing sounds very off, shouldn't be anywhere near this. I think I can live with 4 superbars maximum (will there be 4-bar supers? madness!).

JustNoPoint

Re: Game mechanics
#13  April 02, 2014, 06:28:20 pm
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c001357 said, April 02, 2014, 05:20:41 pm
suggestions: remove guard bar. i find it superfluous if youre having guard break. just buff throws/make them faster. if you could use sf2 throws and throw softening thatd be great, haha (i wouldnt recommend putting both throw breaks and recovery from being thrown at the same time.)
Guard Break requires a super stock which can be pretty limited depending on your super art you choose. It doesn't take a hit like focus. Also I have a strong dislike for turtlers and this bar helps prevent that =p Both throw recoveries were in SFA3.

Quote
if youre using a3 style recovery... the reason why some characters can keep them juggled was mostly because of vc. a lot of the time the player could tech, except that during the tech the time invulnerability lasts is shorter than the time control is given. with a2 ccs, i think that already cuts out a lot of the bs you might have remembered in a3 matches. but who knows?
on that note, stun would be too much with both ccs and a3 juggles, personally

A lot of these do involve the CC but they seem to continue after it's over and some don't seem to need it at all. Though it doesn't seem to show those very long so maybe they are not infinite?

Quote
dunno what the comeback technique is. is it an attack? (edit:nvm)
Added linkage to the 1st post as well for new readers.

All thoughts in this are solely my opinion btw. The mechanics could still change. We want to get a quick mock up Ryu made with all the mechanics to really see how they feel together. Renzo has volunteered to code him up using a different Ryu as a base. Probably POTS's

Balthazar said, April 02, 2014, 06:13:36 pm
(will there be 4-bar supers? madness!).
Hah, I doubt it. The only characters in SF3 that had multi level super arts were Akuma and Oro. More may have that in this game but I doubt they would get a bar that went up to 4 with their super arts =p

I was thinking of characters like maybe Dan and Sean or maybe Fei Long's counter super art or if a character has a particularly tough to use/hit super.
Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 06:36:10 pm by Just No Point

Umezono

Re: Game mechanics
#14  April 02, 2014, 07:24:10 pm
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I agree with c00l in that with a custom combo and a3 juggles that stun might be excessive

c001357

Re: Game mechanics
#15  April 02, 2014, 08:15:39 pm
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Just No Point said, April 02, 2014, 06:28:20 pm
c001357 said, April 02, 2014, 05:20:41 pm
suggestions: remove guard bar. i find it superfluous if youre having guard break. just buff throws/make them faster. if you could use sf2 throws and throw softening thatd be great, haha (i wouldnt recommend putting both throw breaks and recovery from being thrown at the same time.)
Guard Break requires a super stock which can be pretty limited depending on your super art you choose. It doesn't take a hit like focus. Also I have a strong dislike for turtlers and this bar helps prevent that =p Both throw recoveries were in SFA3.

hence the suggestion of sf2 style throws- theyre quite strong, because they cant whiff and can only be softened. the only reason guard bar was introduced in a3 was because throws were weaker

Just No Point said, April 02, 2014, 06:28:20 pm
A lot of these do involve the CC but they seem to continue after it's over and some don't seem to need it at all. Though it doesn't seem to show those very long so maybe they are not infinite?

thats his crouch cancel; the player is bypassing the neutral state by crouching as soon as he lands then cancelling the crouch by jumping which is how the combo continues.

JustNoPoint

Re: Game mechanics
#16  April 02, 2014, 08:43:34 pm
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Quote
hence the suggestion of sf2 style throws- theyre quite strong, because they cant whiff and can only be softened. the only reason guard bar was introduced in a3 was because throws were weaker
They're too strong. Everytime I play SF2 I get thrown like crazy. Normally while I'm trying to throw. Don't make me endure SF2 throws in this game please!!! >:-(
SFA and SF4 have good throw systems. Both of them are slower. I think SFA3 is 4 ticks and SF4 is 1 or 2? I completely forget SF3's throw speed offhand.
(SF2 is one of my least favorites in the series though.... heresy I know I know ;_;)

Quote
thats his crouch cancel; the player is bypassing the neutral state by crouching as soon as he lands then cancelling the crouch by jumping which is how the combo continues.
Ah, that was it! I guess as long as we make sure we remove this the A3 juggle system should be okay?

TTTTTsd

Re: Game mechanics
#17  April 06, 2014, 01:59:37 am
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SF2's throw rewards very good teching(if you use ST as a base.) Frankly I agree with c00 on this one. Techning in ST is just a quick input and honestly, I think it'd work the best.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!

JustNoPoint

Re: Game mechanics
#18  April 06, 2014, 02:09:25 am
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I just really hate the 1 tick throw system. But we can make that a config option as well. When testing Ryu we'll try both kinds of throw methods. The mechanics are not set in stone till we see them all in action working together in the template. Then we can decide what stays default. What goes, and what should be tweaked. (We = community feedback + core quality control users) It's not up to me to say yes or no.

rednavi -RETIRED

Re: Game mechanics
#19  April 06, 2014, 02:17:42 am
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Hate the 1 tick throw system, I'd rather go with something like SFIII/IV. There's a reason why latter fighting games have throws like that (Heck, every single decent fighting game uses this system nowadays. KOF XIII is pretty much the only one that still uses the 1 tick throws without whiff animation).

Less user input error chances (Want to get a close strong attack but pressed forward next to an enemy? Get a throw instead!) and you have to compromise when you want to do a throw (More risk, more reward. You input a throw command and you ONLY do that so there's no safe spot where you either throw or attack, you're either attempting to throw and success or miss and get exposed for a few frames).

JustNoPoint

Re: Game mechanics
#20  April 13, 2014, 06:41:20 pm
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Should we have another option for super selection inspired from Ultra SF4's double? Where the character has access to all super arts with the cost of damage reduction? Super stock number and super bar length could still be different as well to help balance it out. Not like the option in SF3 to have all supers with 2 bars of the same length for all characters.
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