YesNoOk
avatar

Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad? (Read 13145 times)

Started by gohkenytp, December 26, 2022, 12:06:59 am
Share this topic:
Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#1  December 26, 2022, 12:06:59 am
  • *
    • USA
I was really curious about why that so-called "Josh Gayry" had to steal coding from other characters.
That's what found the answer he doesn't know how to code.

And when I looked at some readme files for his characters, he credited the code to them explaining which moves he stole and "gave credit" to.

Is crediting MUGEN character's code bad? (Let me know please in the replies)
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#2  December 26, 2022, 12:34:31 am
  • ****
  • Objection! Sustained!
    • Russia
    • mitia.pogorelov1@yandex.ru

  • Online
No. In fact, it IS a good tone to credit a person if you used something of his.
Not doing so would assume you declare all this taken stuff of your doing, and this might backfire harshly.
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#3  December 26, 2022, 12:38:18 am
  • ***
  • KFC
  • it's finger licking good
    • USA
No. In fact, it IS a good tone to credit a person if you used something of his.
Not doing so would assume you declare all this taken stuff of your doing, and this might backfire harshly.

i agree.
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#4  December 26, 2022, 04:53:19 pm
  • ******
  • Take better care of the plants around u or become
  • the fertilizer that feeds them.The choice is yours
    • Chile
    • network.mugenguild.com/basara/
The problem wasn't to credit other creators, the problem is when you stole stuff to create stuff and don't give credit... and then when you got busted, then you credit the stuff you stoled because you got discovered about what you did. That's probably what that guy did that makes you think crediting is bad.

A different case is when you credit since the beginning to the authors and you admit the stuff in the MUGEN creation wasn't yours since the beginning and you needed help to make something. That's a humility act that is praised in the community and not what that guy did.

So don't be confused, crediting authors is a good thing, but not giving credit and say everything you did is yours when you got codes, sprites and stuff from others, that is bad

Rest in peace, Toriyama-san...
Normal WIPS - ClayFighter - Ideas - Anti-Gouki Project - Lifebars - Facebook - X
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#5  December 26, 2022, 05:12:59 pm
  • ******
    • Portugal
    • network.mugenguild.com/pots/
It's the same as anything in life. If you copy a painting to practice and credit the original artist, people will understand. But if you say the painting is yours, you will be ridiculed.
You can help with Ikemen GO's development by trying out the latest development build and reporting any bugs on GitHub.
My Mugen and Ikemen content can also be found here.
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#6  December 27, 2022, 09:43:34 pm
  • *
    • USA
The problem wasn't to credit other creators, the problem is when you stole stuff to create stuff and don't give credit... and then when you got busted, then you credit the stuff you stoled because you got discovered about what you did. That's probably what that guy did that makes you think crediting is bad.

A different case is when you credit since the beginning to the authors and you admit the stuff in the MUGEN creation wasn't yours since the beginning and you needed help to make something. That's a humility act that is praised in the community and not what that guy did.

So don't be confused, crediting authors is a good thing, but not giving credit and say everything you did is yours when you got codes, sprites and stuff from others, that is bad

Oh so, that's why that "Josh Geary" guy has been hated so much by millions of people that often didn't know he stole code from other characters and credited the code authors in his readme files. I see your point. (I still hate him to this day though)
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#7  December 27, 2022, 10:50:49 pm
  • ***
  • "I'm Bal... I'm Veg...*Sigh* Just call me 'Claw'."
MUGEN is Free, which (ironically) makes it more valuable. When someone creates either coding or images (or both), they take time and effort that will never be paid. Recognition is all they receive.

When someone takes other's creation and claim it as their own (or just don't give credit at all, leading to believe that they are the ones who did it) is highly frown upon, and the great majority of the community will let it know.

In the past, I have seen great creators leave MUGEN, just because their hard work was being credited to other people. In situations like this, everyone looses. Hence the harsh treatment when issues like this happens.
"Remember kids; Curiosity created MUGEN!"

Check Out Cammy-Delta-Red-Development HERE
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#8  December 27, 2022, 11:36:18 pm
  • ***
  • 하나뿐인 한국인 대표
  • Ambassador of MugenRevival
    • South Korea
    • sites.google.com/view/kolossoni-mugen
Depends on what you define as "stealing". Is copying and pasting a code template for guidance considered plagiarism?
MFG members help out with coding all the time. As long as the codes are available, anyone can come and C+V.

Unless an entirely new system is created by a creator (i.e. POTS style, KOFM style, etc) crediting someone for their codes is rather difficult to enforce and oversee especially in a free game like MUGEN.
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#9  December 28, 2022, 04:46:23 am
  • ***
  • "I'm Bal... I'm Veg...*Sigh* Just call me 'Claw'."
Depends on what you define as "stealing". Is copying and pasting a code template for guidance considered plagiarism?
MFG members help out with coding all the time. As long as the codes are available, anyone can come and C+V.

Unless an entirely new system is created by a creator (i.e. POTS style, KOFM style, etc) crediting someone for their codes is rather difficult to enforce and oversee especially in a free game like MUGEN.

The difference lies on the context. Copying a simple code is not even noticeable. But if the whole CNS, AIR, and/or Command files are copied and pasted in a new character, then that would count as 'stealing'. And those can be recognized.

But again, these chars are 'Free'. A simple recognition to the original creator is the least that should be done.
"Remember kids; Curiosity created MUGEN!"

Check Out Cammy-Delta-Red-Development HERE
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#10  December 28, 2022, 09:00:52 am
  • ***
  • 하나뿐인 한국인 대표
  • Ambassador of MugenRevival
    • South Korea
    • sites.google.com/view/kolossoni-mugen
A simple recognition to the original creator is the least that should be done.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. I'm just stating the grey area of Mugen where not everything can be mandated or be deemed as "theft" since it's literally a free software.
It would be disrespectful as hell, but accusing of "stealing"? That's a little too dramatic imo.
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#11  December 28, 2022, 10:21:04 am
  • ******
  • Hedgehog Whisperer
  • Red Bull addict
    • Spain
    • xgargoyle.mgbr.net
You are not just stealing code, you are also stealing the coder's personal time in developing and testing that code. Just because the product is distributed free, doesn't mean there's no work or even some sacrifices behind.
XGargoyle: Battle posing since 1979
http://xgargoyle.mgbr.net
http://www.pandorabots.com/pandora/talk?botid=e71c0d43fe35093a  <-- Please click that link
http://paypal.me/XGargoyle  <-- Donations welcome!
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#12  December 28, 2022, 11:58:14 am
  • ***
  • 하나뿐인 한국인 대표
  • Ambassador of MugenRevival
    • South Korea
    • sites.google.com/view/kolossoni-mugen
You are not just stealing code, you are also stealing the coder's personal time in developing and testing that code. Just because the product is distributed free, doesn't mean there's no work or even some sacrifices behind.

But how are you supposed to standardize what's "stealing" and what's not? I get your point in sacrifices being made into creating content that is aimed to be enjoyed by everyone, but who in the right mind creates an entire new character from scratch (i.e. blank pages for everything. no sprites, sounds etc)?

So if we are to assume every creator borrows some assets from others from time to time, can we consider those "stealing" too without recognition? If not, then to what specific amount/percentage can we state is the line of being considered theft?

If we are to credit every single asset that was used in a single Mugen character, every creations would need something like this in a dedicated "credits" page:
  • Mugen by Elecbyte, Fighter Factory Studio by VirtuaTek
  • Sprites by Capcom, Ripped by XGargoyle, Edited by Kolossoni
  • Codes by Tiger-Boy, Edited by gohkenytp
  • Animations by Bad Mr. Basara, Edited by PoTS
  • Sounds by Capcom, Ripped by Trololo, Edited by Greatfunk
  • etc
and I doubt any creator does this.

Again, claiming someone's hard work as your own is absolutely disrespectful, but unless there's a patent behind it or other legal measures protecting the rights/ownership, I can't wrap my head around it being "theft". It's not an intellectual property, that's what I'm saying.
Last Edit: December 28, 2022, 12:03:47 pm by Kolossoni
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#13  December 28, 2022, 01:42:37 pm
  • ***
  • "I'm Bal... I'm Veg...*Sigh* Just call me 'Claw'."
You are not just stealing code, you are also stealing the coder's personal time in developing and testing that code. Just because the product is distributed free, doesn't mean there's no work or even some sacrifices behind.


Correct.


If we are to credit every single asset that was used in a single Mugen character, every creations would need something like this in a dedicated "credits" page:
  • Mugen by Elecbyte, Fighter Factory Studio by VirtuaTek
  • Sprites by Capcom, Ripped by XGargoyle, Edited by Kolossoni
  • Codes by Tiger-Boy, Edited by gohkenytp
  • Animations by Bad Mr. Basara, Edited by PoTS
  • Sounds by Capcom, Ripped by Trololo, Edited by Greatfunk
  • etc
and I doubt any creator does this.


You will be surprised to know people actually does this. They thank from Capcom, to God, and everyone in between. Giving recognition to those who deserve it.


So if we are to assume every creator borrows some assets from others from time to time, can we consider those "stealing" too without recognition? If not, then to what specific amount/percentage can we state is the line of being considered theft?

Again, claiming someone's hard work as your own is absolutely disrespectful, but unless there's a patent behind it or other legal measures protecting the rights/ownership, I can't wrap my head around it being "theft". It's not an intellectual property, that's what I'm saying.

Granted, hard to call 'stealing' something that is 'Free'. But that is from the perspective of those who download the creation. No char, stage or add-on is actually 'Free' to the creator. Time and effort has been sacrificed by them, which they can't get back.

And if we start patenting MUGEN creations, that would involve legal representation, which will lead to the use of monetary transaction by the creator. And this is a path NONE should follow.

In the end, I believe you will only understand when you create something, spend months or even years perfecting it, and then have another person claim (or lead to believe) they made it. Until this happens, you will keep seeing that 'stealing' is a bit 'dramatic', and would never see that the recognition (which is the only given reward to a creator's work) it's what is taken from them (aka-stolen).
"Remember kids; Curiosity created MUGEN!"

Check Out Cammy-Delta-Red-Development HERE
Last Edit: December 28, 2022, 02:06:08 pm by Tiger-Boy
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#14  December 28, 2022, 02:56:43 pm
  • ***
  • 하나뿐인 한국인 대표
  • Ambassador of MugenRevival
    • South Korea
    • sites.google.com/view/kolossoni-mugen
In the end, I believe you will only understand when you create something, spend months or even years perfecting it, and then have another person claim (or lead to believe) they made it.
Just to clear things up, has the individual claim he/she was the sole creator of the character? I'm not too familiar with the person being addressed.

And I doubt anybody actually "claims" a plagiarized work as their own except for those who are ballsy enough to make such a claim. The reason why I'm empathetic about this issue but am not jumping on to the bandwagon like everyone else is because "stealing" implies there is malicious intent, which is something I'm not willing to assume just because someone took some codes from someone else.
Sometimes, people need to use other people's works as crutches to make something new, especially if your coding is not experienced enough and yet you still want to make your own character.

I need further context to see if the alleged "code thief" actually had malicious intent to smear the name of the original creator or only did it as an amateur mistake. Hollering "steal" at any sign of C+V seems... let me reiterate: a little overdramatic.
Last Edit: December 28, 2022, 03:01:39 pm by Kolossoni
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#15  December 28, 2022, 04:44:46 pm
  • ******
  • ¡Ni p*ta ni santa! ¡Digo!

Is crediting MUGEN character's code bad? (Let me know please in the replies)

Is not bad, is correct and must be do by people who uses other people's creations. It also applies to sprites and such.

I swear there was something cool here!!
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#16  January 02, 2023, 09:55:45 pm
  • *
    • USA
Harsh. So that's the reason why there's a copy/paste drama here in the MUGEN community.
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#17  January 02, 2023, 10:20:05 pm
  • ******
  • ¡Ni p*ta ni santa! ¡Digo!
Not a drama, just a matter of RESPECTING everyone's time and effort.
I swear there was something cool here!!
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#18  January 02, 2023, 11:04:48 pm
  • *
    • USA
Oh, I see now. I have seen so much effort on my MUGEN characters that they didn't even realize I can't code that well.
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#19  January 03, 2023, 12:07:07 am
  • ******
  • ¡Ni p*ta ni santa! ¡Digo!
Imagine that you are a good mugen creator(no matter if a coder or a spriter) and then a random duuuude appears in youtube showing "his" project which happens to be made out of previous characters(the guy just do CS and story for characters plus adding more comboablity, that's all, not the big thing).
Let's say this guy is using Karmachameleon's coding and Bernhazard's sprites. Same using someone's Shingo with Dampir's sprites, Jmorphman's Chun Li coding with some spritesI did. This rings a bell in a random guy who wants to know if the guy accepts commissions. Then this "creator" says his prizes aren't cheap.

Would you like that a random MF use YOUR stuff to gain money? Of course not. Well, this very same case is happening. See in Youtube, a former member of this very same community is doing that wrong shit. And beware if you appear to warn people about the true. This very same duuuude will try to sue you because you are "harassing" him.

Easy to understand.
I swear there was something cool here!!
Re: Is crediting MUGEN code authors bad?
#20  January 03, 2023, 12:59:39 am
  • *
    • USA
I can tell why I'm an okay MUGEN creator. I would do not requests unfournately. So I tell that random MF you mentioned that it's denied all the way!