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Megaman (Classic) for CvTW (Read 178763 times)

Started by Sean Altly, July 08, 2013, 04:27:37 am
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Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#21  July 08, 2013, 09:41:19 pm
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How can it "gimp" his Special Move list when he has MORE special moves than in MVC?
MvC Megaman was bare bones + one gimmick (the three weapons). Unless his slide and/or his uppercut have the range of a Burn Knuckle or a Shoryuken, he's going to be miserable against everyone else. It's already tough to give a fighting chance to anyone against certain characters like Mr. X or Alex, so it's natural that people want the characters to be stronger than the original game, in a noticeable way.
If the special weapons all rely on the same UT bar, it's going to be that much tougher to pull the right one at the right time. This would be okay if it were a one-time unique use but if he has nothing else beside that, this is actually going to be his main game, and it's going to be very limited.

I don't think you're overreacting. I think balance in general is just hard, it keeps getting harder everytime you enhance the roster. I think that a character like Megaman was already very weak in his original game, and because it's the only viable source for someone who can't afford to edit tons of brand new moves, it's just frustrating to know that he's going to be as weak as he's always been.
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Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#22  July 08, 2013, 09:43:25 pm
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I would suggest having Copy Vision as his other super or something.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#23  July 08, 2013, 09:48:59 pm
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@ DKDC

Thanks for understanding, and I guess I see your point.

I'll change some things around.

Megabuster will be F+HP or QCF+P. His Special Weapons won't be his UT anymore. They'll work like in MVC but he'll have more options. You won't have to collect them from Eddie, you'll be able to cycle through them at will. They'll be used with QCF+P (or QCB+P if I use the previous command for Megabuster), which means he'll have Special Weapons and his Megabuster available to him at all times. They'll all be special moves.

That being said, what should his UT be? I was trying to accomplish something from the classic Megaman games by having the Special Weapons be his UT, but apparently that won't do. So I need a new UT for him.

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Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 09:56:20 pm by Sean Swanson
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#24  July 08, 2013, 09:57:43 pm
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If you want to keep the helper, this would be the place to put it. If the special weapons become special moves, it'll instantly give him a very big versatility (assuming you don't focus on funny/goofy/gimmicky weapons like MvC), so something like the helpers you originally planned would be better relegated to one-time saving actions. This would make him quite strong, but playing with the cost of the UT, it should be fine. Balancing that out is easier by giving Megaman a lower defense and don't push his mobility too much (his slide would be enough)
(comparatively, with the other way around, weapons as UT, he would have been very vulnerable and required high defense or good dashes, with the helpers being the only spammable thing capable of saving him)

The way I see it so far, he can spam the Buster while preparing his weapon strategy, but he's still in danger if he screws up, and gets helpers when that happens, but he has to spare them. Still sounds pretty close to the MM game.
The Buster will be spammable by mashing the button, or chargeable by holding it, of course ?
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Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 10:04:20 pm by DKDC
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#25  July 08, 2013, 09:59:16 pm
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he could summon rush, jump on him (r. coil) and appear on the other side of the screen (or anywhere on the screen depending on the button pressed as he's offscreen). or the assisted jump could be used as part of a super. i dunno.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#26  July 08, 2013, 10:04:09 pm
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I understand your frustrations Sean, hopefully I myself haven't come across as negative in any way, I do apologize if I have

I was thinking, but what if his 6 weapons functioned like some of the characters moves in MVC3? Where they wouldn't require separate weapon changes or anything, but rather vary based on the button used. This would mean that if you did want to retain a megabuster, going back to what I was thinking with the QCF+P buttons being for that, you could in turn use this in combination with your idea of QCB+P for his special moves, but have the EX, L and H versions all do something different, therefore, you would get the six buttons if you also used the same command plus K for the other 3.

For his UT you could now do something using Rush I guess or Air support by beat maybe.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#27  July 08, 2013, 10:05:19 pm
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If you want to keep the helper, this would be the place to put it. If the special weapons become special moves, it'll instantly give him a very big versatility (assuming you don't focus on funny/goofy/gimmicky weapons like MvC), so something like the helpers you originally planned would be better relegated to one-time saving actions. This would make him quite strong, but playing with the cost of the UT, it should be fine. Balancing that out is easier by giving Megaman a lower defense and don't push his mobility too much (his slide would be enough)
(comparatively, with the other way around, weapons as UT, he would have been very vulnerable and required high defense or good dashes, with the helpers being the only spammable thing capable of saving him)

That makes sense. I can just use the Beat, Auto, and Eddie helpers this way (I was going to have to create the Roll helper because of the 4 buttons situation). Auto Helper can be done by pressing B+UT, Beat Helper can be UT, and Eddie can be F+UT.

Now I have to figure out the best way to switch between Special Weapons. I don't want him to have to call Eddie in and collect them like in MVC.

Or would you guys rather have them all available via different button variations, as suggested by CGU? No switching?

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Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 10:13:47 pm by Sean Swanson
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#28  July 08, 2013, 10:18:13 pm
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I only think it might be maybe a bit more easy to add them all in that way and available on the fly, since I was thinking Dante in MVC3 had a load of items/weapons they wanted him to use, and that sort of simplified it. How it's executed would be really what determines if it works out right or not.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#29  July 08, 2013, 10:21:03 pm
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I'd go with CGU's versions. With the UT for the helpers, you can have QCB+any attack to select up to 4 weapons (6 with EX), QCF+P to fire it, QCF+K for the slide, DP+P for the uppercut, and F+HP for the buster ? The weapon selection being usable at anytime, even when getting hit or attacking, without canceling the current action.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#30  July 08, 2013, 10:35:41 pm
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Before anyone gives me shit about not being able to take feedback, I ask you to reread this thread. Look at all the contradictions and premature judgments and especially the quoted post, and if you still feel like I'm overreacting, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree. Thanks.

Alright, lemme clear up some things.

Firstly, apologize for the harsheness of my comment. I was slightly tipsy when I made it - alcohol hates me - and I wasn;t thinking straight when I made it. I would like to retract some of the statements I said here - I'm still looking forward to this and I am not asking you to do a better job than Capcom. I just had different expectations of how the character was to be made, and was caught a little off guard. Again, apologies.

Secondly, I was probably thinking of using the Rush Jet as his UT or something, but on reflection that might give him too much maouverability. In fact, on reflection, I'm considering that you stick with your original plan of having his Mega Buster be his UT - it would let him keep the maouverability he had in MvC with it and free up commands for more interesting stuff. Sorry to have caused frustration, but I don't think the assists would make that good an UT to justify them being UT. That'd be more something I'd expect from... I dunno, Bison with Vega and Balrog assits?

Thirdly, large movelists have just been a personal preference of mine. I never like playing characters with few moves like Guile because they always felt like they never had enough to them. It's been my opinion that a character should indeed have a veried movelist to cover the tools they need, but not to the point where it clashes with anyone else. I apologize if it felt like I was forcing this opinion, but there it is.
Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 10:40:36 pm by Steel Komodo
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#31  July 08, 2013, 10:36:05 pm
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http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/Classic/
this site has sprite rips from the Power fighters which you should be able to use. I don't know how many of the games it covers, I believe it's only 1-6 but it may help out. Some edits might be needed to make some of them look more CVS-ish as DG's version did.

 I was going to ask, but I figure you're using the standard MVC Megabuster sprites right? A suggestion would be to go to the more classic pellet look, and if not for the charge shot as his EX he could also just have either 1) a triple shot as his EX, or 2) you may be able to consider maybe giving his buster a Rekka style command where up to 3 can be combined. Just an idea I had, I'm fine regardless but I wanted to see what you thought of the idea.

Edit:
Komodo, I don't think I know much about DG's version since I never played him much, but I'm going to assume he still doesn't have many command specials like the uppercut. Since Sean doesn't want to make more sprites (and I don't think he really needs to anyways). The assists are only a thought, but I think, they could prove to be interesting.
F+UT could be something like Rush Tackle
Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 10:40:00 pm by C-G-U
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#32  July 08, 2013, 10:42:52 pm
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CrazyKoopa's version has a handful of new sprites and effects for different weapons and such.  When I get home I'll check to see what's in there.  CK hasn't been around in a while, but I'll ask if you can use some of it.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#33  July 08, 2013, 10:49:07 pm
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Komodo, I don't think I know much about DG's version since I never played him much, but I'm going to assume he still doesn't have many command specials like the uppercut. Since Sean doesn't want to make more sprites (and I don't think he really needs to anyways). The assists are only a thought, but I think, they could prove to be interesting.
F+UT could be something like Rush Tackle

I did play around with him for a bit once, and I can confirm that no, he doesn't. He could probably make the double-kick a command normal on F+HK, but I'm not sure what purpose it would serve other than an alternate to the standard C+HP launcher.

Also I thought Rush Tackle might work more as part of a Super, I dunno. Have Megs jump on rush, bombard the foe with weapons, then leap off and have Rush kamikaze into the opponent, similar to the move DG's Mega Man has. Just testing the waters here.

That being said, what should his UT be? I was trying to accomplish something from the classic Megaman games by having the Special Weapons be his UT, but apparently that won't do. So I need a new UT for him.

Actually, Sean, after some consideration, I'd rather you keep Special Weapons as his UT. I liked the idea to begin with, I just wasn't sure about the implementation, but I can see it made sense in it's original format now. Assists work better as Specials, anyway.

Again, sorry for all the negativity on this topic. Was just trying to give honest feedback :(
Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 11:37:12 am by Steel Komodo
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#34  July 09, 2013, 12:04:50 am
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Flame Sword! Also this weapon can be a powerfull close atack.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#35  July 09, 2013, 09:07:07 am
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Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#36  July 09, 2013, 06:12:51 pm
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Offtopic: Sorry if I seemed a bit not understanding, it wasn't my intention either.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#37  July 10, 2013, 02:55:58 am
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to be honest it woulda been awesome to see the Battle Network version Megaman.exe in the game but hey Megaman is still badass either way. He seems to be more of a tool using character. traps, stuns would drastically help him out. My Ermac seems to fail when it comes to close range combat but that's the way I wanted him since his MK9 incarnation is a "keep-away" character.

Snake is a mixture of both close-quarters and long-ranged combat. his stun grenades prove useful alot of times as well as his ability to fire weapons to play both the keep away and entrapment games.

his small stature could help against high attacks too.

may I suggest using Megaman like you would Apollo in Shades? his assistant is really helpful as Rush could be for Megaman. use hime like you'd use Apollo's assistant.
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#38  July 10, 2013, 12:57:24 pm
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Alright, after some pondering, I think I've managed to come up with something that's effectively a compromise between what Sean originally had and what he's got now. So here we go.

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Hope Sean doesn't get mad at me again for this - I just wanted to help out. Hopefully this is enough of a compromise that people like it, and once again I apologize for kicking off such a ruckus. :(
Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 01:40:58 pm by Steel Komodo
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#39  July 11, 2013, 09:29:59 pm
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I'm alright now everyone, it's fine, let's just get back to discussing which special weapons would work the best in this game.

Sean, look this:

http://availation.deviantart.com/art/Classic-MegaMan-s-MvC3-Moveset-184893996

That's actually a pretty interesting moveset, but it would require a lot of extra sprites and I'd like to avoid making him into another Arthur (though it would make sense for the character). It would be very easy to move his slide back to a command normal, and make all of his special moves into various weapons from over the years, but like I said, he'd up being a non-stop projectile-spamming zoning character, like Arthur.

As for some of the weapon suggestions so far, I hear a lot of recommendations for Top Spin, but as far as I can tell, that would also require new sprites of Megaman spinning, though I admit it would be a good special.

I'm definitely going to use Rolling Cutter. I'm also leaning toward Magnet Missile, and I personally like Chill Spike (from MM10). It would be a short range ice shot, if it hits the ground it leaves a little ice spike trap, if it hits the opponent directly, it freezes them. Just need one or two more.

EDIT: I do like the suggestion in the comments section of using Astro Crush as a Super.

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Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 09:38:36 pm by Sean Swanson
Re: Megaman (Classic) for CvTW
#40  July 11, 2013, 09:38:30 pm
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I had actually posted this moveset for lv3 super.

What do you think about it? Could be added in your moveset?