Q: What is this?A: It's yet another attempt by me to broach into the whole "full game" territory after I made, like, one character and then gave up for two years or more, and will probably just as likely to go the same way because I have the motivation of a narcoleptic slug and the attention span of a gnat on a sugar high.Q: Okay, but self-depreciation aside, what is this really?A: Capcom Heroines: Clash of Hearts is intended to be an all-female fighting game featuring some of Capcom's more prominent female characters who have appeared in fighting games or crossovers. Inspired by the likes of SNK Heroines and Super Gem Fighter Mini Mix, the intention is to strike a balance between "fun party fighter" and "actual fighting game", providing a more casual experience without pushing the die-hards away.Story"Mysterious objects known as the Hearts of Power have appeared across the world. These Hearts give great power to those who possess them, and a mad scramble ensues to collect them all. An individual calling herself the Queen of Hearts has sent a message to a group of women fighters imploring them to collect the Hearts for her, with the promise of a great miracle in return. These Heroines, motivated by visions of wealth, fame or justice, set out to gather the Hearts and divine their true origin."Q: Any ideas on gameplay?The intention is to take the base gameplay I did with my 3-button Ryu and tweak it in various ways. This means:3-Button Gameplay: Light, Medium and Heavy."Heart Button" tied to a Groove/Infinity Stone-styled "Heart System" that allows for different variations.The focus will not be on MvC-style air combos, but grounded juggles. I've seen so many MvC projects sprout up on here that it makes my head spin, and I want to do something different.Certain characters may play differently from how you may expect them to. For instance, Tron Bonne may be re-interpreted as a Zangief/Haggar-style grappler.Goofy, light-hearted storyline that has no bearing on any official canon whatsoever.Spoiler: The Hearts Mechanic (click to see content)The player selects one of a group of different "Hearts". Each Heart grants a different ability tied to the fourth button. The kind of Heart the player has selected will be visible as part of the UI.When a player is guarding, pressing the Heart Button spends meter to perform a Change of Heart, which functions as a reversal.Some Hearts carry the risk of the player suffering a Heart Break status. For instance, if the player was using the Focus Heart, and was struck by a move with Armour Break properties, they would suffer a Heart Break. This means that the Heart ability cannot be used for a duration.When the player's health is low they can initiate a Heart Surge, which functions in different ways depending on the Heart you've selected. However, once the Heart Surge is used, then the player cannot use the Heart Ability or Changes of Heart any longer.#1. Strong HeartAn aggressive style that encourages rushdown and brute force.Basic Ability: EX Moves. Allows the character to enhance any one of their special moves. Costs as much as a Super, so should not be abused.Change of Heart: Combo Breaker. A Killer Instinct-styled counterattack that puts the opponent at frame disadvantage.Heart Surge: Rage. The character loses their temper, gaining a ten-second boost in power, but cannot use EX Moves or Super Combos during this time.#2. Focused HeartBased on Street Fighter 4. A more defensive style that rewards more cautious play.Basic Ability: Focus Attack. Works very much the same as it does in SFIV, with Focus Cancels costing one segement of bar.Change of Heart: Advancing Guard.Heart Surge: Ultra Combo. Basically what it says on the tin.#3. Swift HeartBased on King of Fighters and the Time Stone from Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite. Allows the player to keep moving and evade attacks.Basic Ability: Dodge/Roll. Dodge can be followed up with a Counterattack.Change of Heart: Evasive Dash. Dash behind the foe and put yourself on a frame advantage.Heart Surge: SFA-style Custom Combo.Q: Any thoughts on the roster?A: A lot of the roster is up in the air right now, as it depends on my own skills in character creation and my knowledge of how those characters play. The intention is for a small-ish roster of around 10-12 characters, with at least one guest character. Further characters may be included as extra content further down the line. I'm willing to take ideas for characters, but they'll depend on if they have the kind of sprites I want and wherever they have up-to-date voices.Confirmed RosterChun-Li (Street Fighter)Saki Omokane (Quiz Nanairo Dreams)Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)Roll (Mega Man)Tron Bonne (Mega Man Legends)Felicia or Hsein-Ko (Darkstalkers)Amaterasu (Okami)Mystery Guest FighterQ: What visual style are you going for?A: In the past, I would have exclusively gone for MvC or CvS-styled sprites alone because I'm that kind of person. However, I realise now that this might not always be possible and that people seem to be generally okay with it as long as there's no major clash of sprite styles. So while I'm primarily aiming for MvC-style, I'm willing to use different sprites and use scaling and palette tricks if I need to. I'll still be using shiny effects though.In terms of screenpack, I have no clue. I think the logo might give an idea of where I want to go, but I appreciate it's not much. Anyone out there who has a better idea than me can feel free to submit ideas.Q: What's the plan going forward?A: Starting from this weekend, I intend to start development on a beta of Chun-Li in the intended gameplay style. Due to my current circumstances, how long it'll take to develop her may change wildly - I'm expected to come off of furlough on the upcoming Tuesday, so that'll definitely increase development time. I'll give an update in the relevant topic/topics when neccessary.In the meantime, feel free to shoot ideas at me in here. Gameplay, characters, visual presentation, I'm pretty much an open platform right now since so much of this concept is vapor. I will be checking this topic infrequently to see what people suggest, and will reply if I think it's pertinent.Q: Anything else?A: I'm considering using that new MugenHook tool to do some fancy effects for the screenpack, like animated portraits and unique selection announcements. But as I don't know shit about building screenpacks, that will obviously come much, much later in development or be handled by somebody who knows what the fuck they're doing.And that's about it. Feel free to post thoughts/feelings/ideas/criticism here, and I'll try to get back to you on all of it when I can. [/list]
Retro Respecter said, April 17, 2020, 04:41:53 pmIf you're looking for Darkstalkers representation, try Lilith, B.B. Hood, or Felicia.I was considering Hsein-Ko, actually, just to mix it up. She doesn't get as much attention as Morrigan or Felicia, I feel.
Apologies for the double-post, but I feel like at this point that I ought to elaborate on some of the concepts that I have for the actual gameplay. This is just so people get an idea of where I might want to go with this.Idea 1#: GemsBasically a very similar set-up to Pocket Fighter/Big Bang Beat. Hitting opponents causes coloured gems to fly out, which you then pick up. Instead of the traditional super bar, you have three smaller bars that correspond to each colour of gem and fill up as you collect them. Each bar can store up to three "charges", and you can perform the following actions based on each charge:1 Charge: EX version of an existing move.2 Charges: Level 1 Super Move3 Charges: Lavel 2 Super MoveHaving all three filled up to max might open up ideas for more cool gameplay techniques.2#: Grooves/Infinity Stones/V-Trigger fusionNot literally those, but a mishmash of those concepts. Let us assume for the moment that we're going by standard Capcom-style meter rules, instead of what I just described.Instead of the fourth button being a universal mechanic (see below), the player would select one of a group of different "grooves" that grant a unique ability to the fighter. Pressing the fourth button would let them use that ability, with the effects that come with it. In addition, the groove you pick would come with a unique defensive option that would cost at least one segment of meter to perform, which you'd do by pressing the button either when being hit or when blocking. The "groove" could also give you a unique ability to perform in certain conditions, such as a "Rage" mode or a desperation super when health is low.3#: The Fourth ButtonThis is the one that's stumped me. I genuinely don't know what to do here, and I'm always somewhat conscious that whichever one I pick will massively affect the way the game plays. The ideas I've had here are:Unique, character-specific ability a la Injustice/Blazbue/Every other concept I've ever had."Launcher" button that allows for juggles, wall-bounces, ground bounces etc.Guard Break, Easy Overhead or some other minor gimmick.So basically I'm just spitting into the wind here. Let me know if any of these sound cool or not. I'm also working on a concept for the lifebars, whch you may or may not see sometime this weekend.
The unique character specific ability would be great, and you can find a way to work in the respective source game systems if needed with the 4th button. Launcher can just as easily be achieved with a normal (even a designated one like a crouch heavy), and so can UOH which were handled with two buttons like a grab in 3s. Not a fan of the gem mechanic cause I think it would create a lot of visual noise (part of the reason I like neither of the games you referenced, or coin battles in Smash). The groove idea is also nice but I think the character specific button promotes less standardization in a healthy, more interesting way.
Retro Respecter said, April 17, 2020, 11:05:47 pmThis sounds too ambitious to go well. Can these even be implemented in MugenHook?Most of these are gameplay things which can be implemented in the characters themselves. I’m mostly just going to be using MugenHook for screenpack stuff that I know it can already do.Umezono said, April 17, 2020, 11:07:13 pmThe unique character specific ability would be great, and you can find a way to work in the respective source game systems if needed with the 4th button. Launcher can just as easily be achieved with a normal (even a designated one like a crouch heavy), and so can UOH which were handled with two buttons like a grab in 3s. Not a fan of the gem mechanic cause I think it would create a lot of visual noise (part of the reason I like neither of the games you referenced, or coin battles in Smash). The groove idea is also nice but I think the character specific button promotes less standardization in a healthy, more interesting way.Thanks for the feedback, man. While I do understand where you’re coming from on this in general, I would like to promote this as less of a serious game than most other projects. That’s partly why I considered the whole gems idea, since as I said before I’m trying to hit that sweet spot between “serious fighter” and “fun party game”. I haven’t even touched on my other big idea, which was to have items in the vein if SNK Heroes! I dropped it because that would be A) a nightmare to code, and B) a blatant ripoff. Nonetheless, I’ll keep in mind what you said. The main problem is coming up with a unique mechanic for every fighter, if I go that route - I’d have to seriously sit down and think about what each character could benefit from.
Are there other characters you want to feature outside of the usual Capcom suspects; maybe from Red Earth, Megaman, Battle Circuit, Power Stone, or even unlikely characters like Princess Prin Prin from Ghost N' Goblins?With regards to the fourth button, you have to ask yourself, what is the penultimate premise of the game. If your game features tagging, you can designate that as the tag button. If the game is more beginner-friendly (ie. Super Smash Bros. controls), the fourth button could be for special moves.Another idea would be to treat the fourth button as a literal wild card. After selecting your fighter, the player will choose an ISM, and that ISM's fourth button will be the ability. For example, if you choose an ISM that lets you perform a Super Combo, that fourth button will now be used for performing Super Combos. An ISM for defense, speed, activating special abilities, healing. Again, it all depends on how you want Capcom Heroines to work.What about combos? Since you want to avoid the MvC-styled aerial raves, might I suggest The King Of Fighters method: Regular Attack > Command Attack > Special Move. Power Stone has a Punch-Kick pyramid tree system where you could make your own 4-hit combos with just those two buttons.I've sent you a PM.
I'm most likely gonna throw in a few oddballs such as Amaterasu and Rainbow Mika. Picking a character like Saki was part of that, since she only appeared in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom and didn't get her chance to shine in Marvel. Characters from things like Power Stone or just wild and out-there stuff are dependant on sprite availability and probably also voices. But if people would rather I just use classic voices for characters to avoid that discrepancy, then I can do that.-------Two things to note as of today:1) Here's a shoddy mockup of the lifebars so far. It's nowhere near done, but you can understand the kind of aesthetic I wanna go for.2) In deciding on the main "gimmick" of the game, I accidentally hit on almost every other thing. And this is probably gona dissapoint those of you who'd rather I'd keep to a more simple style of gameplay, but I at least want something unique in there.So what I'm proposing is called the "Hearts System", and it's essentially a fusion of Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite's Infinity Stones, Street Fighter V's V-Skills/V-Reversals and Street Fighter X Tekken's Pandora. So yes, I'm going for the "grooves" option, but I'll be basing it more on those systems I just mentioned. Allow me to break this down:The player selects one of a group of different "Hearts". Each Heart grants a different ability tied to the fourth button, such as a Focus Attack, a Guard Break, a KoF-style dodge etc. The kind of Heart the player has selected will be visible as part of the UI.When a player is guarding, pressing the Heart Button spends meter to perform a Change of Heart, which functions as a reversal. This manouevre enables the defending player to retaliate in different ways, such as an Advancing Guard, a Zero Counter, a SGS-style warp behind the opponent etc.Some Hearts carry the risk of the player suffering a Heart Break status. For instance, if the player was using the Focus Heart, and was struck by a move with Armour Break properties, they would suffer a Heart Break. This means that the Heart ability cannot be used for a duration.When the player's health is low they can initiate a Heart Surge, which functions in different ways depending on the Heart you've selected. This may take the form of a Pandora-style damage increase, a SFA3-styled Custom Combo state, a powerful finishing attack, Super Armour and so on. However, once the Heart Surge is used, then the player cannot use the Heart Ability or Changes of Heart any longer.This has also allowed me to come up with both the new title and the premise of the game. The game is to be called Capcom Heroines: Clash of Hearts, and the premise/story is as follows:"Mysterious objects known as the Hearts of Power have appeared across the world. These Hearts give great power to those who possess them, and a mad scramble ensues to collect them all. An individual calling herself the Queen of Hearts has sent a message to a group of women fighters entreating them to collect the Hearts for her, with the promise of a great miracle in return. These Heroines, motivated by visions of wealth, fame or justice, set out to gather the Hearts and divine their true origin."Not the most unique of premises, I know, but it's something Let me know what you people think. I'll be checking in here infrequently, as usual, so any feedback would be appreciated.EDIT: Updated the OP with more details.Also, @no1wammy, I'm probably going for a more SFxTK/Darkstalkers route with combos. So you'd have a basic chain of Light > Medium > Heavy to work off, but at any point you can deviate. So the abiity to go "Normal > Command > Special" would still be there. I'd want things to feel very loose and fluid without going quite as crazy as MvC, so this would probably be the way to go. No aerial raves or crazy super cancels, but you can still experiment with it.EDIT 2: Another update to the life bars!The intention is that the "heart" shape around the power bars changes depending on what "Heart" your character is using, along with some text to accompany it. So Ryu is using the red "Power Heart", which would give him Guard Breakers, Zero Counter and the Ultra Combo, while Vegeta is using the blue "Focus Heart", which would give him a Focus Attack, Advancing Guard and Hyper Mode (Pandora).I'd like to do a heart-shaped timer thing between the bars, so I don't consider this done quite yet. That said, I'm happy with the concepts I have here, and I'm thinking of starting development on Chun-Li tomorrow. I intend for her to be based on the "Focus Heart" playstyle first, just to test what works, what doesn't and what needs balancing, and then add the ability to use other Hearts later down the line.EDIT 3: Final version of the bars!
Okay, I promise, this is the final final version of the bars.Also, I'll probably start work on Chun-Li this evening or tomorrow. I'll probably base her a lot on SeanAltly and JMorphman's versions, as well as my own tweaks and the stuff to accomodate the "Focus Heart" system. What I have in mind will be:Dashes instead of runs, because I know that not every character will have a forward run animation.Focus AttackNot sure for the defensive option. Either a simple Counter or Advancing Guard/Push Block.Either the "Rage Mode" or "Ultra Combo".Keep an eye on this topic for future development!
【ＭＦＧ】gui0007 said, April 20, 2020, 12:24:10 amThe lifebars looks amazing! Thanks, man. I based them rather heavily on CvS2's lifebars, but with my own twists, of course.Also, um... I've immediately hit a snag with the project. And that's the sprites to use for Chun-Li. This isn't a question of matching art styles, because I'm willing to bite the bullet on that. It's a matter of scale. I'd like to use the SFA ones if I can, but I'm worried that she'll look like a midget compared to certain other people in the cast, like Tron or Amaterasu, and I don't know if it'd be worth using scaling tricks to make up for that. So I'd like to get some opinions on that front.I've set up a poll to gauge what people would like. In the meantime, I'm gonna stew on the roster and what I want out of it. I've updated the preliminary roster in the OP, but keep in mind it could change at any time.
I personally prefer Chun-Li's CvS2 sprites to her SFA sprites (and subsequently voted for it), but do what you think will work better at the end of the day.
So I've decided to go with the CvS sprites, because as much as I'd like to keep a consistent style, I also don't want Chun-Li to look small compared to the rest of the cast. I did a size comparison of the CvS sprites with MvC2 Tron Bonne, and that seems to be about the right size. I also discovered that her anims in the SFA sprites are choppy as hell to the point where it put me off. So that's where we are.Poll is locked, and I'll be starting development tomorrow, for real, I swear.
Morrigan not being in a game like this is not only a commercial failure, but a fundamental mistake. Chars like Morrigan and Ryu serve as basis chars for games such as this. "Go to" or well balanced, easy to pick up and play types. They serve as the cornerstone of which the game is built upon. All of the chars you have here are specialized chars. The closest well rounded char, would be Chun-Li, though she's of course, not well rounded. I understand you might have done it for "variety" sake, but as I've explained, it's more to it than that. Chun-Li herself has appeared in many of these types of games for that same fundamental reason. She's also been in about every game that Morrigan has been in regards to crossovers, if not more. There's no way a char as good and popular as Morrigan wouldn't make the cut for a game like this commercially. Some food for thought. There's a reason why those chars don't get as much shine as Morrigan, they're honestly just not as good.
Here's the problem with this: I don't like Morrigan. And that's actually a bigger problem than it seems on it's face.I understand your point and, in a game like this, there isn't any way that Morrigan wouldn't make it in. I'm not ignorant as to what would happen in an actual commercial environment - if Capcom made this game, they'd put her in without hesitation. But I'm actually sick of seeing her in crossovers with the same moves and supers and literally nothing new going on with every iteration. And her moveset is pretty much redundant the moment you put any other Shoto character in there. If we must have a Darkstalkers representative, let's use one that hasn't seen nearly as much play but is still iconic to the series, like Felicia or Hsein-Ko.I'm also planning to use another character for the same "Shoto" role as Morrigan, so don't think I haven't considered the idea of a "basic" character to pick up and play. I'm trying to go for a variety of playstyles, which is why the characters are so varied and "specialist". And again, some characters are going to have overhauls to their move sets to fit this type of game. So they'll play differently from what you expect.Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing your opinion here. I'm more than happy to listen and take feedback/criticism into account. It's just that I have a particular vision for this game in my head and what characters should be in. And unless more than one person tells me that I'm making a mistake, or somebody gives a very valid reason for why I should change something, then I'm not likely to....having said that, you may be right on the whole "base char" idea. I may change my focus to doing that character instead of Chun-Li so that I have a template to work from, at least.
Steel Komodo said, April 22, 2020, 06:15:42 pmHere's the problem with this: I don't like Morrigan. And that's actually a bigger problem than it seems on it's face.I understand your point and, in a game like this, there isn't any way that Morrigan wouldn't make it in. I'm not ignorant as to what would happen in an actual commercial environment - if Capcom made this game, they'd put her in without hesitation. But I'm actually sick of seeing her in crossovers with the same moves and supers and literally nothing new going on with every iteration. And her moveset is pretty much redundant the moment you put any other Shoto character in there.I totally get what you mean, but if that's the case, couldn't you just alter some of the properties of her specials to make them more different from the other character/shotos, as well as making her feel different & new from the other characters? Just wondering.
Steel Komodo said, April 22, 2020, 06:15:42 pm...I'm actually sick of seeing (Morrigan) in crossovers with the same moves and supers and literally nothing new going on with every iteration.I love Morrigan, I really do. But I get what you're saying.One of the major complaints I've seen was Morrigan's design was just too perfect, Capcom wouldn't dare to touch her. Her CPS2 sprite library has been recycled time and time again - in fact, for the Capcom vs. SNK series, they simply reused her CPS2 library, whereas the rest of the roster was specifically redesigned to conform to CVS specifications.Same moves and supers, that I can agree on. When Capcom brought her in for Marvel vs. Capcom, they replaced her Finishing Shower with Soul Eraser (a beam super to make her "a part of the crowd"), and added a new Level 3 super, Eternal Slumber. In the second installment, Eternal Slumber was cut. In MVC3, her Finishing Shower was brought back; and due to Lilith not being in the series her Silhouette Blade was changed to Shadow Servant; and Darkness Illusion became a Level 3 super. It was not until Infinite where she finally had a new special move, Harmonious Spear, a move which I have mixed feelings with. I must have tried several different moves and ideas so that Morrigan would appear fresh: making Necro Desire a special move that could even be used in mid-air, turning Shell Kick into a Cannon Drill without turning Morrigan into Cammy, making better use of her Harmonious Spear... and nothing. I looked at other fighting video games like Omen Of Sorrow, even non-fighting ones like Castlevania: Symphony Of The Night where one of the bosses is a succubus. Capcom made her too perfect, from her moveset to her design, and that's the problem here. The more I tried to update Morrigan, the less she was Morrigan, if you know what I mean.
DauntlessMonk7 said, April 22, 2020, 08:56:42 pmI totally get what you mean, but if that's the case, couldn't you just alter some of the properties of her specials to make them more different from the other character/shotos, as well as making her feel different & new from the other characters? Just wondering.I could, but that wouldn't solve the problem of me having a gut dislike of Morrigan overall, never mind the problems with her moves. I totally understand what @no1wammy is saying, and I do think some people would complain if I changed her too much. But then again, I do want to put a fresh spin on the characters, so I don't really have the same aversion to it as I imagine most people would. But even if I did give her new stuff and new properties to her moves, it still wouldn't excuse the fact that it's still Morrigan, who's already had so much attention.Clearly, I haven't put as much thought into the roster as I thought I had. I need to go back and think about it some more before I even touch Fighter Factory in the slightest.
Retro Respecter said, April 22, 2020, 10:48:30 pmNow see what you Morrigan fanboys have done.Hey, nobody was being a fanboy or anything. DW was giving very good reasons for Morrigan to be in the game and DauntlessMonk was offering legit ideas. It’s kind of on me for not wanting to go for the obvious roster picks and wanting to subvert expectations.
If you're looking for roster ideas, then I have a few suggestions (some of these may subvert expectations):R. Mika (Street Fighter Alpha 3)Hinata Wakaba (Rival Schools: United by Fate)Roll Caskett (Mega Man Legends)Claire Redfield (Resident Evil 2)Maki Genryusai (final Fight 2)Lucia Morgan (Final Fight 3)Poison (Final Fight)Carol & Brenda (Captain Commando)Mary Miyabi (Cyberbots: Full Metal Madness)Lady (Devil May Cry)Regina (Dino Crisis)Female Monster Hunter (Moster Hunter)Sakura Kasugano (Street Fighter Alpha 2)Kaede (Onimusha: Warlords)Ayane (Power Stone)Rouge (Power Stone)
Retro Respecter said, April 23, 2020, 01:20:03 amRoll Caskett(Mega Man Legends)Carol & Brenda (Captain Commando)Mary Miyabi (Cyberbots: Full Metal Madness)Lady (Devil May Cry)Female Monster Hunter (Moster Hunter)Kaede (Onimusha: Warlords)Ayane (Power Stone)I think that some of these girls don't have spritesheets or I haven't found one and the only Rouge char for mugen (that I've seen) is currently private and for a fullgameAlso adding some other suggestions: Jill Valentine (Resident Evil) Fiona Belli (Haunting Ground) Trish (Devil May Cry) Devilotte (Cyberbots) Tabasa (Red Earth) Mai Ling (Red Earth) Tiffany Lords (Rival Schools) Yurika Kirishima (Rival Schools) Amaterasu (Okami) Ton Pooh (Strider)
Unbelievable you guys didn't even considered Pure The Mage and Michelle Heart :v Both definitely fits this idea.
Believe it or not, I was considering Hinata for the shoto role. As for all those other suggestions, again, I'm going to be nitpicky here and say a lot of them don't have decent sprites or voicework up to par with what I'm after. There's a few I'm definitely considering, but after all this talk I don't want to settle on anything solid.So while I'm still being an indecisive bastard, lemme talk about the Hearts mechanic some more for a hot minute. For a refresher, this is the "Infinity Stone/Grooves"-style mechanic that gives extra abilities and powers to the player depending on which they pick. You can read about them more in this post here, but I'll update the OP as well to elaborate on this.So I currently have about three or four Hearts planned, but more could come along. Here's three of them right off the bat:#1. Strong HeartBased on Street Fighter Alpha and Street Fighter X Tekken. An aggressive style that encourages rushdown and brute force.Basic Ability: Guard Break OR Parry OR KOF-stye knockback.Change of Heart: Zero Counter.Heart Surge: Rage Mode. The character gains enhanced damage for a brief time.#2. Focused HeartBased on Street Fighter 4. A more defensive style that rewards more cautious play.Basic Ability: Focus AttackChange of Heart: Advancing Guard OR Zero CounteHeart Surge: Ultra Combo. Basically what it says on the tin.#3. Swift HeartBased on King of Fighters and the Time Stone from Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite. Allows the player to keep moving and evade attacks.Basic Ability: Dodge/Roll. Dodge can be followed up with a Counterattack.Change of Heart: Evasive Dash. Dash behind the foe and put yourself on a frame advantage.Heart Surge: SFA-style Custom Combo.All of this is subject to change, of course, and more will definitely be introduced. I'm already planning a "projectile-based" Heart used for zoning, one that grants Armor and another that summons a copy of the user for an assist. Lay on the feedback and I'll be sure to accomodate.
For Focused Heart, since you plan on "one that grants Armor". I might suggest an "Armor Mode" similar to what's in KOF 2000 where you have limited Super Armor.I'm not sure about Supers (In this case Ultra Combos) being limited to certain Modes/Grooves and that doesn't sound very defensive. The Ultra Combo thing could be a Universal mechanic outside of Hearts if that's up your street or having different requirements for each Heart.
I think you could use the FIGHT.fx to add all stuff that will be used in the characters, it´s faster and easier to standardize all the girls at less time.i use this technique for my projects and it economizes me a lot of time.EVERYTHING IS ADDED IN FIGHT.FXSUPER PAUSE FXHYPER BGSOUNDSTRANSITIONS PORTRAITSthis is a great hint to you and very simple to implement.
RagingRowen: That sounds interesting, definitely. Or maybe some kind of Aegis Reflector-style barrier that pushes foes away and reflects projectiles? There’s a lot we could toy around with here - we just need to find the right combo of things.Mazemerald: That’s definitely an idea, at least for the fullgame environment. The trouble there, though, is that I’d want to release at least a few of these characters to the public for use in their own MUGEN. Would it not be better in that case to code the stuff inside the characters to avoid compatibility issues? I’ve always coded stuff inside the characters anyway, since I’m more comfortable doing that. Is that going to be an issue?
RagingRowen said, April 23, 2020, 07:40:09 pmFor Focused Heart, since you plan on "one that grants Armor". I might suggest an "Armor Mode" similar to what's in KOF 2000 where you have limited Super Armor.That one could be called a Heavy Heart.Speaking of fun names, you might want to seize the phrase Broken Heart. That could either be a mechanic of its own for counter attacks, or it could describe an effect from which a player cancels out or temporarily suspends the opponent's ability to use their heart powers for a short time.
...shit, that’s good. Although I’m already using the term Heartbreak to describe another gameplay thing, so that might cause confusion
Just a small post. No progress on making characters yet, but I do want to say at least two small things.- Ultra Combos are going to be dropped from the system. As much as I'd like to put them in as a universal mechanic, they were originally created as a counterpart to the "Rage Mode" system I envisioned for my Ryu. But with Heart Surges replacing Rage Mode in different ways, I don't see much of a reason to keep them around. I did have some good ideas for them, like Morrigan using her MvC1 Lvl 3 as an SGS-type move, Chun-Li's Sichisei Senkukyaku and Hinata using her Party-Up moves, but that was as far as I ever got with them.- After much deliberation, heres' a very tentative roster. Characters I know are at least possible are marked in bold, non-bolded characters are mad pipe dreams.Chun-Li (Street Fighter)Maki or Poison (Final Fight)Morrigan or Felicia (Darkstalkers)Tiffany or Hinata (Rival Schools)Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)Saki (Quiz Nanairo Dreams)Roll or Tron Bonne (Mega Man Legends)Rouge or Ayane (Power Stone)Amaterasu (Okami)Tessa or Mai Ling (Red Earth)June, Claire or Luca (Star Gladiator/Plasma Sword)Devilotte (Cyberbots)Monster Hunter (Monster Hunter, based on MvCI)Fiona (Haunting Ground)Seth (Street Fighter V, possible final boss)Mai Shiranui (Fatal Fury, guest character)As you can see, the roster kind of exploded on me. I wanted to keep it to around 10-12, and it ended up being nearly twice that amount! I do imagine that some of these characters are going to get cut to keep things managable and avoid some overlap - I'm still hesitant about quite a few of these, especially the more obscure ones like Devilotte, Fiona and the Red Earth/Power Stone/Star Gladiator characters. I also envisioned a joke sub-boss called Miss XYZ, who is Dan in female garb as a parody of Miss X from SNK Gals Fighters, or perhaps a female version of Ryu.As for the "Queen of Hearts" character? That's undecided. She's one of the three ideas I've had for a final boss, alongside Seth and a mysterious dark force I'm tentatively calling Nevermore. But considering she's mostly there just to facilitate the plot, she might just appear in the endings.- Been mulling over main system stuff while I was at it and here's a very basic list of what I have.The basic normal chain is L > M > H > H. The second H functions as a SFxTK-styled launcher. Unlike SFxTK, however, you are not locked into the chain - you can cancel out of it with either a command normal, special or super. In addition, command normals and specials that use H take priority over the launcher. You can also use the launcher with DF + H aka TvC.You can only use Ground and Wall Bounces. Not every character will have them, and you can only perform one Wall Bounce, Launcher and Ground Bounce per combo.Combo progression: Normal > Command > Special > Super.Air attacks cannot be used in chain combos.No air blocking, or at least very limited air blocking.Forward dash instead of a run.Ground recovery only. Also includes KoF/MvC-style recovery rolls, or perhaps a SFxTK-style wakeup roll option.I'm thinking of adding a Roman Cancel-esque mechanic, either as a universal one or specificl to a particular Heart. But I'm worried that with the current system I have, it might be too much.Just Defend or Parry. A successful one grants a little extra meter.And that's... really all I have to say. Sorry that I'm not producing actual content for you all, and I can understand if you want to write this off as yet another mad pipe dream of mine. But I do want to stick with this one and not throw in the towel, especially since I've done that many times before and consider it a bad habit of mine.
I'd suggest a Second Guest character like a SFEX/Fighting (EX) Layer character, like Blair Dame which has decent sprites.Having only 1 guest character doesn't sound very satisfactory and Mai is a very common nominee for a non-Capcom char.
QuoteHaving only 1 guest character doesn't sound very satisfactory and Mai is a very common nominee for a non-Capcom char.I gotta disagree with you there, I'm all for just one guest character. A lot of crossover fullgames get muddied up with guest characters that take focus away from the main idea. It also comes across a little unprofessional. One character is fine, and Mai is a solid, if not a little common choice.
Yeah, I only wanted the one guest character. I know people like them, but I didn’t want to take the focus away from the Capcom characters. Also, Mai made the most sense to put in. I did consider others like the female Terry or Skullomania from SNK Gals Fighters, but again that’s down to sprite availability.Also, keep in mind that I’m very likely to cut this roster down quite a bit. Primarily for the sake of my own sanity, but also based on stuff like personal preference, gameplay styles, representation etc. I’m willing to hear suggestions on that as well, but I know everyone has their favourite character and won’t want to see them go, so that’s going to take a lot of discussion.That said, I’m probably fixed on a Power Stone character getting in. Those guys have had no official love from Capcom at all
Female Terry only really worked in SNK Heroines alongside Miss X and the Female Skullomania is a bit overboard and specific in the Guest department and it would make more sense to add a gal from "EX" alongside the genderswap but then again that might be one too many guests. Decisions mate, decisions.I did/do have a CvS Heroines in mind by the way.Going back to the Ultra Combo thing, if you had the ideas I might suggest simply making Level 3/MAX Supers instead without relying on a specific Heart.
Steel Komodo said, April 26, 2020, 12:38:33 amYeah, I only wanted the one guest character. I know people like them, but I didn’t want to take the focus away from the Capcom characters. Also, Mai made the most sense to put in. I did consider others like the female Terry or Skullomania from SNK Gals Fighters, but again that’s down to sprite availability.You know, this is probably going to sound like a crazy/dumb idea, but if you want to put in Terry, Skullomania, Iori/Miss X, etc, you could just use the male sprites, but change their SND so they use the female voices from SNK Heroines. At least until decent sprite sheets for the female versions become available.
As funny as that is, I'd probably want to play it straight. So I don't think that'll be happening @RagingRowen: Oh? Do tell.
So it’s 1am and also probably a bad idea to voice these thoughts out loud. But I’ve just realised I’m not happy with how this is turning out.When I first envisioned this project, the intention was to create something between a dumb, casual party fighter and an actual fighting game. Something fun and accessible with a bit of RNG, but doesn’t turn off those who like real fighting games. And the roster was going to be small and manageable, by my standards at least, and not have to rely on me commissioning new stuff because I live on peanuts and don’t control my own finances. It was meant to be within the scope of my abilities, basically. But now it’s not what I had in mind anymore. I changed it too much, because I was afraid people wouldn’t accept the original concept. And now it’s mutated into Yet Another Capcom Versus Fighter(tm) with a blatant ripoff of the Infinity Stone mechanic, a bigger roster than I wanted and demanding new sprites that I’ll never afford. And that’s made me really lose motivation to do anything for this, which is exactly as I said would happen in the very first post. I know my own brain too well for me to be surprised anymore.I know that was the whole point of the thread to begin with, to take ideas and make this into a better project. And I’m not disrespecting or disparaging anyone that did give feedback - I appreciate all of it, trust me. But maybe that was a mistake. Maybe I should have stuck to my guns and not done a brainstorming thread to begin with. Or maybe I should have considered a different idea entirely? I could go on, but that’s beyond the point now.The question, what do I do to rectify this? How do I bring this idea back around into something I want to do and can do, with how little I know of MUGEN and fighting game theory in general? How do I bring this closer to the original idea of “fun casual fighter” that I feel’s gotten lost somewhere in translation? If anyone has any ideas on how to do that, or if you think I’m being an overdramatic moron, just say. I don’t want to have to drop yet another concept like an unwanted baby, but I’m struggling to think of ways I can make this thing come to life, or even if I want to anymore.
Steel Komodo said, April 29, 2020, 02:04:59 amThe question, what do I do to rectify this? How do I bring this idea back around into something I want to do and can do, with how little I know of MUGEN and fighting game theory in general? How do I bring this closer to the original idea of “fun casual fighter” that I feel’s gotten lost somewhere in translation? If anyone has any ideas on how to do that, or if you think I’m being an overdramatic moron, just say. Easy: go back to THE root. You want this game to be something funny yet "professional". Then, from my humble point of view, first step is deciding the number of buttons. Or decide WHAT to do with them. Sometimes, less is more. U want to keep the 6 button thing and that's cool. Unless it's Tekken, I can not understand a vs game with 4 buttons :/. Here, if I may, leave a suggestion:A: LPB: MP->B: HPZ: LKX: MK->X: MKThis leaves D and C as "do what you want" with the buttons: I'd suggest one of this for CHARGE and the other for...dunno. Maybe a SPECIAL ACTION like dodge, run, teleport, etc. Or even activating the gem thing you spoke about.Next is: keep the roster as simple as you wish. For example, make ONE charcater and use this as the BASE for your game(kinda like KFM). And from her, determine the stuff for the others(more comboability, more speed, stronger, etc). This is the most I can say, given my small understanding of the codes and else.Good luck!
For starters, don't try to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes less is more. Think it simple. For example, pick a basic gameplay style you like (a CvS groove for example) and go from there, change a thing or two and see what works and what doesn't.The same goes for the roster. Start with a base roster of 10 characters, and if everything goes as planned you can add more down the line. If I were to suggest I'd go with three characters from Street Fighter and two from Darkstalkers, leaving five characters from any other franchises you'd want to add.
Thanks for the advice, everyone. I'm still not feeling great overall, so I'm going to leave this alone until the weekend rolls around. Maybe by then I'll have figured out what I want to do, and which ideas you've given would be best for me to pursue.
So I know I said I'd leave this alone until the weekend, but I'm actually feeling quite a lot better now. I've had some time to think and et my emotions under control, and I'd firstly like to apologize to everyone who had to read that melodramatic nonsense. I also PM'd a bunch of people with a similar message, and I'd also like to apologize to those people as well. I won't name names, but they'll know who they are.Anyway, after some thought, I think I'm going to be sticking with what I've got now, if only because I can't really think of anything better or that wouldn't cause annoyance. As much as I want to start going back to stuff like Super Gem Fighter-style gems or random items, I'd rather not go completely crazy with my first full-game attempt. Maybe my next project, if I ever do one, will have one of those systems, but for now I'll keep it relatively simple and just teach myself the more complex bits. The Hearts system is really the only tricky part, but if I can nail down how to select the different ones then I should be alright.Based on @Magma MK-II's advice, I'm going to be cutting the initial roster down to about 10 characters. Any future characters will be created later. The initial roster will be:Sakura (Street Fighter Alpha 2) - ShotoChun-Li (Street Fighter 2) - Whatever Chun-Li is. Rushdown?Rainbow Mika (Street Fighter Alpha 3) - Retooled to be an Alex-style brawler/grappler.Felicia (Darkstalkers) - RushdownMorrigan (Darkstalkers) - Shoto. I'll be tweaking her moveset quite a lot to make her distinct and unique - the 'Ken' to Sakura's 'Ryu', if that makes sense.Tron Bonne (Mega Man Legends) - Heavy GrapplerSaki (Quiz Nanairo Dreams) - Zoning/RangedJill Valentine (Resident Evil) - Mixed rushdown/weapons??? (possibly Tessa or Mai-Ling from Red Earth, or Fiona from Haunting Ground).Yuri Sakazaki (Art of Fighting) - Guest CharacterStarting this weekend, I'm going to start work on Sakura. She'll be used to refine the systems I want for the game, including details like if I want air blocking/recovery and stuff like that. I'll be using PotS' version as the base, but I'll be using her English voice from SFIV/SFXT/SFV, then adding her Japanese voice later on. I'll also be using my old "Capcom vs. the Universe" Ryu as the template, but with heavy changes to accomodate the new gameplay/Watch this space. I'll be posting updates either here or in the Projects section at some point.
Sakura is in the works right now, with basic movement and gethits in production. I’m basing her on PotS’ version for sprites and animation timings, but looking at LostAvenger’s version for hitboxes because I’m buggered if I’m copying the ones PotS used. Of course, since LostAvenger’s Sakura uses different sprites, I’m having to tweak my versions a bit to accommodate. Hope it doesn’t break things too bad.I’ve also been mulling over ideas for a possible final boss character. I may have mentioned it before, but I think I’ll use this post to elaborate on them here.Seth (SFV) - In this context, Seth is also after the Power Hearts to use their power for his own ends. The final battle sees him absorb their power into himself to reach a new level of strength.The Queen of Hearts - the true owner/forger/guardian of the Power Hearts. A mysterious individual, possibly a celestial being akin to Ingrid, who lost the Power Hearts and wants them back to prevent discord across the world. She intends to fulfil her promise of granting a miracle to the one who recovers them, but must ascertain their intentions, hence the battle.Unnamed - A monstrous entity formed from hatred, despair and misery that was sealed away with the power of the Hearts. With their scattering, the seal weakens and the being/beast is able to break free.Ingrid - Because if you ever wanted to beat the snot out of her, here’s the place :UWhatever the case, the final boss would use a unique Empty Heart, which grants then unique systems that the playable Hearts don’t get. I’m considering either power-copying akin to Seth’s V-Skill or teleportation follow-ups to special attacks.I’m also mulling over the idea of Squigly from Skullgirls as a guest character. She’ll most likely come at a much later date, and when I’m in a much better financial position than I am now so I can commission some CvS-style sprites. But looking at her move list, it seems she’d be the best to adapt to the gameplay style. I’d have to change some inputs, obviously, but even MvC3 and Tatsunoko vs Capcom did that, so I don’t think that’ll raise too many eyebrows.
I could help you with a blueprint on the final boss, if you want. What this basically means is I conceptualize possible moves for your original character based on their background and the overall game engine. I will send you an example of a blueprint via PM.
no1wammy said, May 03, 2020, 08:15:27 amI could help you with a blueprint on the final boss, if you want. What this basically means is I conceptualize possible moves for your original character based on their background and the overall game engine. I will send you an example of a blueprint via PM.That'll be interesting, but again, that all depends on who I want the final boss to be. It probably won't be Seth or Ingrid - Ingrid being the creator of Pandora didn't go down well in SFxTK, and Seth's story from SFV doesn't exactly leave him/her in a villainous mastermind position. That means it'll either be the Queen of Hearts or the unnamed shadow being, and I'm kind of torn on which one it should be at the moment.I'll PM you some details when I finally make my mind up
There isn't much humor or spice to using an original character as the boss. Ingrid would be easiest due to already existing sprites though.
That depends on the kind of character the original boss is . Again, this is still very early planning stages, so a lot of this is in the air higher than most kites. I won't have a solid plan until I get a few characters out and most of the roster on lock.Also, the Projects thread for Sakura exists now! Go look it up here: https://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/capcom-heroines-sakura-alpha-189817.0.html
UPDATE: So I've decided to make some changes to the currently-available Hearts. I'll post them in the OP in a moment, but I'll detail them here first.#1 Strong HeartAn agressive, all-out style that makes use of rushdown and enhanced attack power.Heart Power: EX Moves. Allows the character to enhance any one of their special moves. Costs as much as a Super, so should not be abused.Change of Heart: Combo Breaker. A Killer Instinct-styled counterattack that puts the opponent at frame disadvantage.Heart Surge: Rage. The character loses their temper, gaining a ten-second boost in power, but cannot use EX Moves or Super Combos during this time.#2 Focused HeartA more cautious, strategic style that enables defensive tactics.Heart Power: Focus Attack. Works very much the same as it does in SFIV, with Focus Cancels costing one segement of bar.Change of Heart: Pushblock. Shoves the opponent away.Heart Surge: Fortify. The character gains Armor for ten seconds and can shrug off around two attacks in succession....and that's about it.
So Sakura's coming along. Her ground and crouching basics are done. Next, I want to get her air basics and her sole command normal done, put Memo's fancy hitsparks in, then I can do a preview video to show all that off. But I've had a new niggle come to me.See, so far, Sakura's based on my old custom Ryu, which had a "MvC-Lite" gameplay with some custom elements, such as the Rage Mode and Ultra Combo. A lot of this stuff is being changed for Capcom Heroines, obviously, but I do wonder if I should change the base gameplay so radically and go for the more grounded style I'm proposing. While I did say that this would be an attempt to try to learn to code new things, maybe it'd be better for me to not jump the gun with something new and at least stick to some familiarity.I've started a poll to decide what people want. If you need more elaboration, I can provide it, but the difference is basically "air combos" vs. "juggles". And that's literally all it is, bar a few small things. Additionally, you can download the beta of my old Ryu here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/e9ugkurzxxci89h/Ryu_CvU.zip, so you can see what that's all about.
Apologies for the triple-post, but I've made my mind up. I'm sticking with the "MvC-Lite" gameplay.I know that this is going to upset some people since I said that I was going to do something different with this. But as much as I keep saying that this is a learning experience for me, there's a lot I don't know and not a lot I'm confident about when it comes to these kinds of things. I look at how others have implemented juggle systems in their characters and I actually get scared. I don't understand what I'm seeing, and I don't know how to omplement anything like this myself without either hideously breaking the character or breaking something else. It's far too intimidating for me, honestly.I'd love for somebody to explain it to me in a manner I can understand and give me examples so that I could implement it myself. But I'm very aware that's not going to happen anytime soon. So I'll keep what I have now, and until I get a better grip on development or a helping hand, I won't immediately change it.
Apologies for lack of updates. Been working on other, non-MUGEN things.Have a WIP lifebar seperation thing to tide you other. I've also got a select screen concept in the works, so keep an eye out for that in the future.UPDATE: Select Screen concept for y'all.I know the diagonal select screen thing isn't really possible, but I like the look of this regardless.
Mostly copy-pasted from the WIP topic.Apologies for the silence, but unfortunately I had one of my 'lost all my mojo' moments. I haven't been working on Sakura for a long time, and to be honest I think I'm doing the thing were I've become disillusioned with this project. I'm not doing anything new or exciting with it aside from the whole "Hearts" thing, and even though I said I wanted to learn to do new things in MUGEN, I'm terrified at the prospect of coding something like that. And furthermore, it's not doing anything radical that all these other MUGEN projects out there aren't doing. I'm just taking the gameplay of an old character I did and throwing on some bullshit.I'm going to be stepping away from this and re-thinking what I want to do in MUGEN. I have some ideas, but nothing concrete. I'll probably post something in here soon-ish, but until I really want to commit to doing something, I'm not going to touch Fighter Factory or MUGEN in general.I've also closed the main WIP topic. Sakura's not going to be worked on as of right now. Don't ask me if she's coming out in any form at all, because she won't be. At least, not until I make my mind up on what I'm doing.For anyone who's still interested, those life bars up there are open-source. Feel free to do whatever you want with them.
Capcom Heroines: Clash of Hearts - Brainstorming Thread (Read 82489 times)
