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White Supremacists Protest in Virginia (Read 20083 times)

Started by Amy, August 13, 2017, 12:32:51 AM
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Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#141  August 16, 2017, 04:53:30 PM
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Even with all the hate speech laws in the EU, it'd be silly to think that every single country in that bloc has seen a decrease in hate related crime.
You don't seem to realize that these laws are a century hold. Are you asking if hate speech and hate crimes have decreased since the time of slavery and segregation... ? Because the answer is of fucking course they have. Meanwhile the US still sees these protests over a century after the civil war.

Snakebyte
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The police tried to disperse the event, taking away their right to protest. Many private internet companies have taken action censoring alt right websites, some of which were justified and some weren't. What I originally posted here about and what got you coming at me was commenting that they're going to sue the state of Virginia for taking away their right to protest which was upheld on appeal in the federal courts. That was mob justice on the state's part, the police acting outside the law.
he police dispersed a bunch of people that were beating up Black people, and Internet space providers are canceling private contracts which they absolutely can.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 04:59:57 PM by Byakko
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#142  August 16, 2017, 04:56:04 PM
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Its general knowledge that a human being,regardless of their political views,should still,in full,have all human rights.
Not liking someone elses political views is fair ground for shitposting,debate and insult throwing and the like,but saying they don't deserve human rights because of it is silly
so the kkk that wants to kill all black people should have human rights....hmmmm. maybe the jails should free all murderers then. smh.
What
Do you even understand what rights are?
All prisoners still have human rights you silly nilly.The murderers,thieves and even the people on the death row,still keep their rights

i know what rights are. and again IDGAF. im mad. fuck hate.
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Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#143  August 16, 2017, 05:02:56 PM
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The police tried to disperse the event, taking away their right to protest. Many private internet companies have taken action censoring alt right websites, some of which were justified and some weren't. What I originally posted here about and what got you coming at me was commenting that they're going to sue the state of Virginia for taking away their right to protest which was upheld on appeal in the federal courts. That was mob justice on the state's part, the police acting outside the law.
he police dispersed a bunch of people that were beating up Black people, and Internet space providers are canceling private contracts which they absolutely can.

From everything I've been able to see, that wasn't the order of events. The police tried to disrupt people that were walking about and chanting and holding torches. The violence happened after that.
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#144  August 16, 2017, 05:10:00 PM
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Meanwhile the US still sees these protests over a century after the civil war.

They would've protested regardless. There may have been less Confederate imagery if such laws existed, but they went there because a monument was being removed.

I'm sure the laws assisted as a deterrent, but hate incidents decreased because people don't acknowledge it as a good way to live anymore. Damn near nobody wants the public lashing of being associated with that.
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#145  August 16, 2017, 05:31:09 PM
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On the other hand this statue would have been gone in a blink a century ago because the Confederates are as close to hate speech as anyone in the Third Reich (you don't see statues of Himmler and Goebbels anywhere in Europe, you read about them in History books), and people in those areas wouldn't have had one more reason to idolize those people and the alleged good they did while minimizing their role in slavery.
How exactly do you think you can change a nation from totalitarian inhuman monsters bent on large scale domination and racial extermination ? Remember the "first they came" poem mentioned last page ? Germany hunted down and prosecuted their Nazis, the US didn't and even let them be glorified. You could even look at the Japanese concentration camps in the US during WWII but that's an even worse can of worms that nobody wants to recognize.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 05:39:57 PM by Byakko
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#146  August 16, 2017, 05:37:18 PM
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...Was anyone here opposing the removal of the statue?
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#147  August 16, 2017, 05:53:06 PM
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The far-rightists would probably find something else to complain about at some point, probably some police brutality related matter. Confederate denouncement is only part of the entire spectrum.

I'm Canadian. We don't have these kinds of protests up here. We don't have the Westboro Baptist Church being assholes up here. I'm not comfortable with the idea of people shouting hostile shit against other races on the street. I've also seen lots and lots and lots of unjust censorship under hate speech laws that overreach. So I'm for them, but they have to be constructed really carefully so they don't get abused. I think that's possible. Unlikely, maybe. Maybe so unlikely that the risk of implementing them isn't worth it. But possible.

I don't like it either, but I guess it just acceptance that there's always gonna be jerks who hate people for being different. It doesn't help that the US is a huge country where racial clash dates back as far as it does.

I'd have absolutely no problem with hate speech laws if there weren't a potential trickle down effect. Thankfully Western nations have strong structures, and they certainly won't collapse at the smallest hate speech legislation. Anyone using Orwell speak to describe such laws is obvious fear-mongering. But I get their hyperbolic perspective because, all it takes is a few of them to believe that it's the way to go about things. And if it's deemed to be not enough, people will naturally ask for more. Which can get to the point of overreach.
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#148  August 16, 2017, 06:00:58 PM
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When I use Orwell speak to describe such laws, my issue is with their vagueness, not with the potential for more, harsher laws in the future. We don't have a solid definition for 'hate speech'. According to some of the more hyperbolic elements of the left, this includes facts, polls from well-respected institutions, etc. According to the same people, advocating for equality is the same thing as white supremacy. A very limited law is no problem, but my suspicion is that what we'll end up with is something that will justify the removal of any speech that is perceived as immoral by the cultural zeitgeist, even when that speech is objectively true.

If people didn't constantly call everything hate speech and everyone Nazis, I would feel better about it. But they do. So, what's hate speech? How can we be sure that only things that should be removed, will be removed?
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#149  August 16, 2017, 06:23:28 PM
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snakebyte and erroratu: it is okay man you can say whatever you want!
neo nazi: fuck niggers.
snakebyte and erroratu: hey wait a minute... that's bad why would you say that?
neo nazi: ????
I'm going to let god handle you people ✞
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#150  August 16, 2017, 06:43:56 PM
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Yeah that's how people work.

We don't have the right to force people to do things, only to convince them to do things. You can say whatever you want. I can then tell you that's wrong and dumb and stop it and try to convince you why I think you should stop it and if I do a good enough job and you're not crazy, you'll listen.

Not sure what your issue is here.
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#151  August 16, 2017, 06:54:54 PM
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snakebyte and erroratu: it is okay man you can say whatever you want!
neo nazi: fuck niggers.
snakebyte and erroratu: hey wait a minute... that's bad why would you say that?
neo nazi: ????
A person should be allowed to speak his mind
Even the really really dumb shit .
I agree on the fact that the man should be given the capability to scream whatever racial slur he wants but I will still demonize him for doing so
Plus Just cause someone is allowed to do something doesn't mean they should
You can ,by all means, shoot yourself in the leg with the gun you just bought and you wouldn't be breaking any law,but why on earth would you do that.
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#152  August 16, 2017, 07:00:25 PM
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you're a hypocritical idiot snakebyte. how can you condemn nazis, yet allow them to spew their nonsense?
if you're actually against what they say then you wouldn't want them to say it in the first place.
don't even try to convince me that you're against racism but you allow it to be spewed. the fact that you have no empathy for other races and you're trump supporter is enough for me to know what you really are.
but you're too much of a coward to say it out right, so we have endure your low key bullshit defense of nazies instead.
I'm going to let god handle you people ✞
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#153  August 16, 2017, 07:08:12 PM
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you're a hypocritical idiot snakebyte. how can you condemn nazis, yet allow them to spew their nonsense?
what the fuck is he supposed to do to stop them from speaking
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#154  August 16, 2017, 07:41:18 PM
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you're a hypocritical idiot snakebyte. how can you condemn nazis, yet allow them to spew their nonsense?
if you're actually against what they say then you wouldn't want them to say it in the first place.
don't even try to convince me that you're against racism but you allow it to be spewed. the fact that you have no empathy for other races and you're trump supporter is enough for me to know what you really are.
but you're too much of a coward to say it out right, so we have endure your low key bullshit defense of nazies instead.

Because two wrongs don't make a right. Because stopping people from speaking with force is more wrong than any words can ever be. This is very simple. Also fuck you repeatedly for trying to say I'm racist, jesus fucking christ. You're basically saying something ethically equivalent 'murder racists or you're a racist'. That's fucking nonsense. Murder is wrong. This no-compromise us vs them mentality is wrong. Not listening to people when they speak and telling other people that they're racist is wrong. Stop being wrong.

If I was a coward, why the fuck wouldn't I be giving the same brainless condemnation of Nazis that everyone else is? That's what I'm supposed to do, right, NAZIS ARE BAD!!!11111, virtue signalling done, everyone cheers, time to go home.

That's cowardly.

What's brave is standing up for principles that actually need defending.

Everyone is anti-Nazi. Everyone is anti-racism. Saying that it's still wrong to murder them because they're people and have rights? I'm a coward for that? For standing up to people like you, who want to harm people just because they say things you don't like? For taking absolute bucketloads of shit on this forum from emotional idiots who don't think things through?

I don't think you know what the word 'coward' means.

General comments:

Relevant article is relevant: https://theintercept.com/2017/08/13/the-misguided-attacks-on-aclu-for-defending-neo-nazis-free-speech-rights-in-charlottesville/

edit: other relevant article is also relevant: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170814/15422237996/defending-hateful-speech-is-unpleasant-essential-even-when-violence-is-end-result.shtml
Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 07:54:29 PM by Snakebyte
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#155  August 16, 2017, 08:00:16 PM
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did someone ever spit on your face and tell you that you're inferior? because that happened to me and it felt like shit.
you're born white, you have never experienced any discrimination. you will never understand how it feels.
I'm going to let god handle you people ✞
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#156  August 16, 2017, 08:07:36 PM
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you're born white, you have never experienced any discrimination. you will never understand how it feels.

Wow dude, stop being racist.

edit: Okay, I'm going to explain that so people don't think I'm shitposting. Even putting aside the argument that yes, white people can be discriminated against for being white once in a while, you can be discriminated against and hated for reasons other than your race. You're basically saying that no white gay or trans person has ever suffered discrimination, because they're white. I don't really need to say how fucked up that is.
Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 08:15:25 PM by Snakebyte
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#157  August 16, 2017, 08:18:49 PM
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you're born white, you have never experienced any discrimination. you will never understand how it feels.
Are you implying you cant be discriminated against based on things other than race,such as religion and nationality? I myself moved to a country where my countrymen are considered low iq savages because most people that ran here to Austria during Bosnian wars were village men.

The shit that happened to you is bad,and shouldn't happen to anyone,especially since its discrimination based on something you have no way of changing, but what you said afterwards is some absolutely retarded shit
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#158  August 16, 2017, 08:34:48 PM
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Wow dude, stop being racist.

edit: Okay, I'm going to explain that so people don't think I'm shitposting. Even putting aside the argument that yes, white people can be discriminated against for being white once in a while, you can be discriminated against and hated for reasons other than your race. You're basically saying that no white gay or trans person has ever suffered discrimination, because they're white. I don't really need to say how fucked up that is.
nice strawmann but you're not homosexual either. im talking about you and you only, you're white, you're a trump supporter, and you've never experienced any discrimination.
and i don't think im racist for saying that whites rarely get discriminated against based on their skin.
I'm going to let god handle you people ✞
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#159  August 16, 2017, 08:38:15 PM
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You don't know a damn thing about me, and I'm not going to bare my life to some racist on the internet to make a point.

Identity politics is bullshit. The entire point of the internet is to be judged by what we say and do, not things about ourselves we can't change. That's what anonymity is supposed to be for. So I'm done talking to you any further. If I wanted to tell personal stories, I'd be on Facebook. (If this topic swings back to more general discussion, I'll probably pop back in.)
Re: White Supremacists Protest in Virginia
#160  August 16, 2017, 08:38:21 PM
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