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Death Battle (And sprite fight animations) (Read 7137584 times)

Started by Long John Killer, April 09, 2015, 03:59:16 AM
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2741  December 01, 2021, 10:59:41 PM
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That right there is the thematic similarity that makes that matchup work.  Besides being major villains with insanely elaborate plans, both of them heavily utilize strong mass hypnosis.  If it comes down to which one of those two abilities is more effective than the other, I'd give the edge to Aizen.

Madara's Infinite Tsukuyomi has a very specific activation condition that requires a lot of elements to be in the right place at the right time, and can be broken out of through strong enough willpower, natural immunity, or external stimuli.  Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu only has the activation condition that the opponent has to have seen it in its active state at least once, ever, and it can never be broken out of, even if the opponent realizes they've been hypnotized.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2742  December 01, 2021, 11:21:36 PM
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That breakdown reminds me, Death Battle still equates all soul-based magic as one and the same across different media, don't they?  Like with Naruto and Ichigo how they find chakra and reishi to be the exact same, despite....very acutely not being so?  So Aizen is 100% composed of the stuff like all the Soul Reapers and Hollows and junk.  Dunno how that affects their organs and blood, because on paper it all just sounds like supernatural hardlight constructs from heaven.

I literally have no idea how the Soul Society functions with having children and future generations when they're also likewise unaging and stuck at the form they died in if they're souls transitioning from the human world to the afterlife, because it's not one of those "age to their specific potential prime then stop" deals as we know with Hitsugaya's whole weirdness of being a 10-year old with the mind of a 1000-year old except for his bankai or whatever randomly ages him some additional 15 years temporarily.  The whole background lore of Bleach is much more rule of cool and that's kinda Tite Kubo's whole M.O. since he started working on manga, but it makes my head hurt just thinking of the Soul Society's worldbuilding.  Then the last Bleach chapter throws in a time skip that only now the Soul Society decide to age the survivors a bit.  I'm forced to assume the implication is newborns coming from the other side of the life/afterlife boundary Soul Reapers just kinda age out of adolescence up to the point they just choose to stop at.  I don't know how else it works, and it being all afterlife magic nonsense that handwave excuse is as good as it needs really.

Anyways, this is a roundabout way to getting to say, Aizen hypothetically shouldn't have DNA or cells.  Or corporeal DNA, whatever, he doesn't have the thing Madara's whole eye jutsu deal works off of.  If they're doing the soul energy composite deal like Naruto/Ichigo, Aizen to Madara, if he can even sense the guy, should just be a humanoid-shaped ball of fire to him.
Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 12:01:31 AM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2743  December 02, 2021, 12:21:42 AM
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Technicalities like that kind of have to be hand-waved away for the sake of argument, though.  Otherwise half of these debates couldn't even happen.  For example, theoretically Ganondorf would win against every single character from every single series because TLoZ lore repeatedly states that he can't be defeated by someone who doesn't have the triforce of power.  In the same way that you have to concede the idea that these two characters would be willing to kill each other regardless of canon, you also have to concede the idea they both would be able to actually fight each other too.

"X character wins because of this technical lore MacGuffin" would be a very boring, easy copout that would neither be a satisfying answer to the matchup nor an entertaining video to watch.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2744  December 02, 2021, 02:31:24 AM
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So, is it the sword that can create hypnosis? If so, that's a big advantage in Aizen's favor because he doesn't even have to look at his opponent to hypnotize him.

Also - The Sharigan can see down to a cellular level... but Aizen isn't exactly human anymore. It could, in theory anyway, see his spiritual energy the same way it sees chakra in the Naruto universe. But, without its main ability, doesn't the Sharigan become useless in this fight?
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2745  December 02, 2021, 03:06:32 AM
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That's gonna have to be one of those things that needs to be swept under the rug for the sake of argument, I think.  Not really much of a discussion to be had if one character can't even see or touch the other due to a technicality that holds true in one series' universe but not the other's.  Reiatsu and chakra may as well be interchangeable as a general purpose anime superpower measuring system.  You could call it ki or nen or haki for all the difference it makes when measuring them with real-world physics.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2746  December 02, 2021, 06:01:30 AM
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Very valid point there, Person Man.

One last thing for me and it involves Aizen's Big Black Box spell (I know there's an official name for it, but come on - I've never watched Bleach at all and I think Big Black Box is easier to understand). They said that it takes a long time for it to launch because it requires quite the incantation just for it to happen.

Considering how galaxy sized his brain is, couldn't Aizen recite the incantation before the fight begins so he can launch the spell during it? Or is it something that he has to do the incantation during the heat of battle?
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2747  December 02, 2021, 01:10:40 PM
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I looked it up to see exactly how it works, and it seems that if he intends to use the incantation it can't be done in advance as the spell is cast as soon as the incantation is done.  He can cast it instantly without saying the incantation, but at the cost of reducing its power to about 1/3 of its maximum.   

For reference, this it what it looks like when used without the incantation, and this is with it.  It's much stronger at the full strength, but the incantation takes about 30 seconds to recite completely.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2748  December 03, 2021, 12:08:32 AM
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I looked it up to see exactly how it works, and it seems that if he intends to use the incantation it can't be done in advance as the spell is cast as soon as the incantation is done.  He can cast it instantly without saying the incantation, but at the cost of reducing its power to about 1/3 of its maximum.   

For reference, this it what it looks like when used without the incantation, and this is with it.  It's much stronger at the full strength, but the incantation takes about 30 seconds to recite completely.

Okay, so he can do it without an incantation, but it is a weaker version of the move. Got it.

On the other side of the plate - Is there anything Madara can do that can damage Aizen? This might be the perfect revenge battle for Bleach fans... especially after how Naruto curb stomped Ichigo.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2749  December 03, 2021, 12:52:15 AM
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I'd assume one of the holdovers from the gap in Death Battle episodes covering Bleach was how everyone and their mother at the time was calling foul on how lowballed the Bleach universe's powerscaling and Ichigo, the de facto strongest character was minus deliberate cheating powers like Aizen and Yhwach.  So it really shouldn't even be a curbstomp with the victor decided over their tricks instead of raw power output.  Granted, a problem Bleach has when powerscaling is a lot of their huge accomplishments are vague.  Like Aizen stopping that time worm thing that can eat all of time and space.  That's a hard to quantify feat and is the reverse issue if you highball Aizen then as "Oh, well, all of space = Aizen is at least universal".

That all said, I don't particularly imagine Aizen has as much physical strength in comparison to Madara going by how chakra amps physical strength as well.  He was shocked at the Ichigo he fought that was a few steps down from his ultimate form could just wave his arm and vaporize a mountain range from the pressure alone, implying his power would not match.  But their spiritual/magical TNT range nonsense Death Battle loves to measure by is probably ridiculous.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2750  December 06, 2021, 07:29:26 PM
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As for the next match, while I'm disappointed I'm not going to get my Saitama vs Squirrel Girl match I've wanted for so long, Popeye is a suitable substitute.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2751  December 06, 2021, 07:47:49 PM
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I knew it would  come to Madara's black weapons and orbs to finish Aizen as they negated regeneration,I think this might be one of few battles I agree with result and one in a long time where fan base comment section got this heated since Goku vs Superman,I was expectin Rinnegan to be used to determine if Madara would be able to see Aizen and interact on same extent,Naruto characters are insane on strength feats towards the end of the series and they weirdly get nerfed at the boruto cause plot but ,I'm not even sure if Aizen had anythin that Madara's Susanoo couldnt survive the blow even.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2752  December 06, 2021, 09:43:11 PM
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Yikes there's a lot I disagree with that last episode.  How did they possibly come up with Earth, Soul Society and Hueco Mundo being three Earths?  They literally gave Aizen the mountain feat that the episode takes, like, 10 minutes of outright explaining that Ichigo did, not Aizen.  They gave Madara's orbs a big emphasis, despite literally just being what Aizen's whole body and sword already does?

I really don't get why they lowball Bleach so much.  It's not like it's a top tier in powerscaling series, but jeez.

The next episode is weird because I thought they did their joke episode already.  Saitama is a parody/joke-ish character and Popeye is just a cartoon physics guy so you HAVE to take it as a joke like they did with The Mask.  I'm assuming they're doing it just because Popeye won't really die unless they can somehow prove it would be scientifically funny to have him die in a fight, that's how the whole toon thing works.  Which.....good luck?  Or else the point is to just kill off Saitama so people can stop overselling him, I dunno.
Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 09:46:50 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2753  December 06, 2021, 09:59:16 PM
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2754  December 06, 2021, 10:37:04 PM
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That comparison doesn't hold much water....first off, they reexamined the two series and it seems they ranked Ichigo higher than before when they did his episode, so moot point.  But beyond that, Ichigo beat Aizen at a point when neither was near their full power shown off in the series, so that holds about as well as claiming in a Goku vs Vegeta match, Vegeta wins because he completely outclassed Goku....when they first met and Vegeta was only beaten through outside help.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2755  December 07, 2021, 12:11:53 AM
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This battle was one of those Death Battles that I love the most - where on the base level stats, the two fighters are about as evenly matched as you can get. It takes a trump card for one to win the battle, and that is what Madara had. His orbs and weapons made from said orbs gave him that final edge. I will give Aizen credit for keeping it very close.

The next fight... *sigh* I understand the theme here - Both Saitama and Popeye can punch really, really hard. What I don't get is the match up itself -  The only way Popeye stands a chance is if the version they're using is the one from the old school cartoons done by the Fleischers. In one of those cartoons, you had Popeye blow the sun out like a candle without his trademark Spinach. Having him go up against a character whose signature move is a single punch that can literally destroy a planet if given the chance seems like an absolute unfair fight.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2756  December 07, 2021, 12:42:32 AM
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The biggest challenge they're going to face is trying to figure out Saitama's defensive capabilities.   By that I mean that nothing has been shown to be capable of even remotely having any effect on Saitama physically, let alone actually hurting him to any degree.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2757  December 07, 2021, 12:44:12 AM
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Nothing physically.  There was that one time Popeye brought a man to suicide over all their zaniness if I'm recalling correctly, no?

No, I'm not recalling correctly, never mind.  Just looked it up again, it was a case of the guy was already suicidal, Popeye was trying to cheer him up, HIS zaniness got on Popeye's case and he murdered the guy as the episode's punchline.  Whoops.

Not that I'm a One Punch Man expert, but as far as I know, outside the intentionally loose guideline of Saitama's new upper limit can be whatever the situation demands, the limit that we do know of is ONE saying he'd be universal giving it his all at one point.  Which in a universe of building-level threats to utmost upper-limit planetary threats, yeah, that still comfortably leaves Saitama at many leagues above the rest without worry while still being a quantifiable level to place him at.  Something your Dragon Ball or Saint Seiya or Sailor Moon character would beat, those kinda of ridiculous multi-versal series, but most others would get wiped fighting against.

The weird part would be going off that example as your baseline durability feat, having to prove with a straight-face that Popeye in universal+.  I mean, toon force and all, but still.
Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 12:55:34 AM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2758  December 07, 2021, 01:30:10 AM
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If I had to venture a guess, I'd think that what DB will focus on for giving Popeye any kind of edge will be all of the weird, esoteric, borderline supernatural things Popeye is able to do via punching.  It's all toon force nonsense, of course, but Popeye can do some absolutely ridiculous shit with a punch.

Things like literally butchering a stampeding bull and building a meat market with one punch, punching a spinning industrial sawblade without getting cut, or punching a radio so hard that the guy in the broadcasting booth feels it.

Whether any of that would have any kind of effect on Saitama is another matter entirely.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2759  December 07, 2021, 04:52:12 AM
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This match-up reminds me the DB team once, years before the Ultra Instinct meme was a thing, were looking to put Scooby-Doo or Shaggy in Death Battle.  I think it was Scooby versus Courage the Cowardly Dog?  That also resurfaced for one of their Cast episodes as well.  I forgot who Shaggy was supposed to fight but point being they wanted to do an episode really trying to get into the nitty-gritty of toon force and what beats it outside assuming all cartoons are related to Who Framed Roger Rabbit and weak to The Dip.  I guess they just shelved the whole idea until they wanted to touch on it to kill Deadpool with The Mask, but I kinda want to still see what they think is a reasonable way to out-science comedy.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2760  December 07, 2021, 06:41:02 AM
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Welp. Popeye murdering Saitama is a good a finale as any I suppose. I gotta say, for a season themed around "most requested" matchups a lot of these sure feel random.