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Street Fighter - General Brainstorming topic - (Read 121495 times)

Started by FeLo_Llop, March 19, 2014, 12:13:32 am
Re: Street Fighter
#61  March 23, 2014, 04:15:44 am
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I'm ok with target combos, but most "chains" aren't coded right. You usually end up with just lp-mp-hp when you should be able to chain into kicks too. It feels awkward and lazy to me. Ibuki and Dudley are examples of lots of tcs done right.

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Re: Street Fighter
#62  March 23, 2014, 04:48:20 pm
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I would like to say that the perfect chain IMHO is the tekken style. It may not allow SUPERlong combos, but at least gives people the chance to perfrom a difficult combo from an easy start..

That said, Viper's portrait:


And Bonus. Sketchy roster. There's a lot of slots, I know. Just a placeholder(don't panic!)



Still lacks a background, letters for names, etc, etc...I thought keeping the sprite without NOT mirroring in both sides, so we can put the flag, and few stuff, but this is optional :/.

Have a nice day!!
I swear there was something cool here!!
Re: Street Fighter
#63  March 23, 2014, 04:50:01 pm
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looks like a good start and the flag would definitly be a nice addition
-STREET FIGHTER VI WAITING ROOM-
-DRAGON QUEST XII WAITING ROOM-
Re: Street Fighter
#64  March 23, 2014, 09:31:43 pm
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Looks fantastic. The design choice is stylish yet simple, and the placement of everything is perfect so far. And of course the portraits are nicely done.
Re: Street Fighter
#65  March 24, 2014, 01:43:01 am
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It seems no one read this :P :

Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty

Putting -ISMs would be the best  IMHO, so any player could be confortable with any character and etc. I'm aware that it would be extra-coding and not always easy to do. I know...OR making a common system but changing executions. For example, Leap Attack could go from MP+MK to LP+LK, leaving Focus as it is in SF4. Blocking and SFZ's "parry/block" could be merged in one, since their properties are similar. Well, not that simlar. Blocking allows you to be able performing a nice combo from it while SFZ's "block" only allows you a hard hit.
- SFZ:

I've read the spoiler :P
Again, I don't want to step on your toes here but you'll have to think of me as the "budget". We have to keep this project simplistic if we want it to be an easy to join in community project. Not to mention grooves would be impossible to balance where 1 solid system would be a lot easier.

So I want to ask if possible for a compromise. That's a big part of a community project. How about we solidify 1 system? We develop the characters with the mechanics we decide in mind. Many of the mechanics that get cut could be coded as a var in a common cns. So those mechanics would only need to be coded once and activated with a var in a separate config cns. Basically if you wanted the other mechanics you turn them on in the config file like Rajaa did with Necro.
Now, for convenience to the project the mechanic has to be a universal mechanic that does not need character or move specific values.

It wouldn't be ISMs. But it would allow you to create your own ISM/system if you wished. Would this be acceptable to you?
Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 01:48:12 am by Just No Point
Re: Street Fighter
#66  March 24, 2014, 01:24:43 pm
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One way to approach the boat load of -ISM type stuff would be character by character. It sounds ludicrous and MUGEN-tastic. but hear me out. Try narrowing down those options to a generalized system-wide list, then adding certain ones to characters in a way similar to Capcom vs. the World's special technique button. Ryu might get a focus attack (dat wind punch), while Ken might get pseudo-chains in the form of a larger selection of target combos. Rose and Yun could get V-ism combos in the form of Soul Illusion and Genei Jin, while Bison's Psycho Crusher could function like SFxT's chargeable super moves. Combo breakers for Karin and Gouken by modifying the uses of their counter attacks, A-ism/X-ism/SF4 Ultra supers by character to accent their playstyle (lots of balancing and rebalancing to make it work, if it's even possible), leap attacks for characters without a lot of specials that rely more on command techniques (looking at you, Guile), et cetera. It would take a lot of trial and error to get it right, though. Might be a dumb idea. I'unno.
Re: Street Fighter
#67  March 24, 2014, 01:40:27 pm
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That would require lots of balancing and wouldn't be worth the effort. A config file or set system is better imo. Or isms lol. A, 3, and 4. You can have your focus attack and your universal overhead too. Though A might get screwed as the only one that had air guarding :p

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thanks again Vans/Jesuszilla!
Re: Street Fighter
#68  March 24, 2014, 05:49:13 pm
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Yes...keeping things as simple as possible is the best choice. Let's remember two examples from previous games:

- SF2 had a standar gameplay with no one doing "crazy" stuff, or things from other g...what? Claw had an evasive movement, a la KoF.
- SFZ had those -ISMs and awesome gameplay options, but no one had an speciffic reversal mov...Karin. Karin was able to "reversal" rival's attacks.

So, a choice(if decided by us all, etc) is having chars with Focus Attack, others with reversals, chain combos, etc...Not necessary a total revamping or superbalancing IMHO, f someone can perform a (long) chain combo, just put his/her attacks a bit weaker. Those who perform focus, just add an invencivility during this movement, because of the amount of time to prepare it. If X has block, don't allow an evasive maneuver.

I think, this way every character would look more unique and can change the way of playing for some clones, converting them into something more of their own. See Tekken. Even Devil Jin and Kazuya has a similar moveset, D. Jin is able to do a reversal movement while Kazuya not. Miharu's attacks lacks the fluidity of Xiaoyu's, but in the other hand she's not THAT opened to reversals; etc.

I swear there was something cool here!!
Re: Street Fighter
#69  March 24, 2014, 06:33:09 pm
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I could helping out with this project some. I don't have tons of time but I am sure I can contribute some where.
Re: Street Fighter
#70  March 25, 2014, 04:11:26 am
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good looking stuff man :) very well done as always.
Re: Street Fighter
#71  March 25, 2014, 09:19:24 pm
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Adding a mechanic to a character that needs a buff wouldn't be ruled out. In SFA3 Gen and Guy still have chain combos. In SVC Hugo has a parry. SF4 Ibuki and Viper have super jumps. It's not unheard of. But those will still need to be added with thought to the character's balance. Not to meet a quota making sure all mechanics are implemented in one way or another.

Back onto the mechanics

Spoiler: Balthazar's suggestion (click to see content)
Okay here are my concerns/feedback for this.
NO dash? Dash is in the latest 2 SF games. It really adds a nice dynamic to the game. Giving another option to get in closer and making the game a bit faster paced.
Sidestep hasn't been in any SF game unless we want to say it comes from SF EX :P
SFA3 Air Juggle would probably not work well without air guarding.
Picking 1 super from 3 would probably need something else like having different numbers of bars/different lengths like in SF3. Otherwise it'll be like in SF4 and for the most part people just pick the better more practical super.

Here is my idea for the system. This does not over rule your ideas. It's just to move discussion. I'll fold real fast if you press me on any mechanics =p
(This will be based more on your suggestions)

-dashing.
-air/ground recovery after knockdown (though more cinematic then the standard 'flips and floats'.
-hold back for all close range attacks.
-SFA3 juggle system
-air blocking
-throw attempt/whiff animation, done by fwd/bwd+2P / 2K or LP+LK (config file potential)
-safe fall/throw escape/throw recovery).
-Guard meter/guard crush.
-Stun meter.
-!NEW!-throw counter (after succesfully performing a safe fall/throw escaqe, come right back into p2's face and counter).
-SFA's Zero Counter (costs 1 bar).
-SFA2's Custom Combo (costs 1 bar, like EX's Excel Combo. No 2 bar/3 bar version). Length of time could change depending on super selected as well MP+MK
-SFEX's Guard Break (slow, unblockable attack costs 1 bar).
-EX Specials
-Multiple Super Combos for each character, but only 1 available ingame due to a selection (similar to SF3) different supers would allow more stock and/or different length super bars
-HP + HK for taunt
-start for movelist/pause
Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 10:19:01 pm by Just No Point
Re: Street Fighter
#72  March 25, 2014, 09:30:10 pm
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Sounds pretty good to me, though with dodging/evading, I kinda ment the SNK mechanic. SF EX didn't have any sort of dodging as far as I can recall :P
I put it in so more close-quarter, dodging and countering fighting would be promoted. Though parrying is extremely cool too.
I initially left the dashing out to go back to basics a little, but do agree it's a cool feature that should probably be included.

The air/ground recoveries being more cinematic would also contribute to things looking just slightly more realistic/involved, with characters doing unique things like twisting their bodies, rolling, direct-counter-attacking, what have you. Anything to do away with the standard air flip and get it over with.
The rest of the list I agree with, how about other people? What do you think?

Again, I'm a front-runner of thinking out a general system (though there can still be character-specific differences), rather then having Isms, Isms are dumb.
Re: Street Fighter
#73  March 25, 2014, 09:33:05 pm
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Didn't SF EX have side step? Or am I remembering wrong? 3D plane side stepping to be clear.
Re: Street Fighter
#74  March 25, 2014, 09:35:15 pm
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I like JNP's list, I would just add the SF3 parry.

I didn't know Hugo in SvC had a parry.
Re: Street Fighter
#75  March 25, 2014, 09:42:16 pm
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Again, I'm a front-runner of thinking out a general system (though there can still be character-specific differences), rather then having Isms, Isms are dumb.
I'm with you on this. I like isms, but it's not practical for the scope of the project. Knowing 1 set general system will make it easier to balance the characters accordingly. For simple tweaks like adding a parry or disabling airblock an optional config file can be made. But in developing the characters this potential will not be used for their movesets, balance, and meta games

I like JNP's list, I would just add the SF3 parry.

I didn't know Hugo in SvC had a parry.
I don't really like the parry mechanic as it takes away characters long range fighting potential. Would be easy to add with a config file though. And/or character specific
Re: Street Fighter
#76  March 25, 2014, 09:51:21 pm
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Didn't SF EX have side step? Or am I remembering wrong? 3D plane side stepping to be clear.
No, it didn't have it. And it wouldn't be feasable in a 2D mugen game anyway :P

For Parrying, a config could be nice. Maybe. Having a big influencal thing like parrying be character-specific however would kind of go against the idea of having a fullgame, it'd feel too much like a compilation imo. The whole point of making a fullgame is having the characters share the same style and system.
Re: Street Fighter
#77  March 25, 2014, 10:14:18 pm
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I wasn't a big SF EX player. Only EX1 on PS1 :P A 3D side step would have to be adapted and altered for 2D but that's mute since it didn't have it.

A character specific parry could be nerfed/edited as well. Hugo's parry was towards plus 2P for high and down plus 2k for low. It was a special attack as such. That's not saying we HAVE to implement a parry to someone. That will be dealt with on an individual basis. It would probably be more fun to make a unique move for x character instead of give a parry if we wish to buff someone with a new move.
Re: Street Fighter
#78  March 25, 2014, 10:19:48 pm
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A question and a wild idea: Are we aiming for "pure" system mechanics? Or the idea of mixing or changing how they work is plausible?

I was thinking if we come up with a mix of some mechanics, like parry + focus. Parry in the way you perform it, how many hits you can stop but adding an extra element to it, like gray life for every attack parried, so it's a little more risky if you fail parrying a complete string.

Just trying to think out of the box; might be fun.
Re: Street Fighter
#79  March 25, 2014, 10:24:54 pm
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That's completely possible. Me and Balthazar's list is still a WIP and can easily be altered. I think the only thing we need to stay within a guideline on is to make sure they are based on SF mechanics. This project feels kind of like a big community tribute to SF as a whole. Adding SNK specific things would feel off. Mixing, combining, and tweaking current SF mechanics is a smart evolution of this project. Along with new mechanics like the attacking get up attack Balth expressed.

Also to note. The stuff we allow in the config file should be looked at as CVS2's groove create. Or SF3's extra mechanics options. Just extra fun. The core game will not use them but you can turn them on/off as an option.
Re: Street Fighter
#80  March 25, 2014, 10:35:36 pm
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I think we might decide if we are only counting the system mechanics from SF "canon" games, because CVS has a lot of stuff not present in other games, like running or dodging (obviously SNK Grooves are ruled out, but Capcom grooves also have stuff from KOF and such). My stance is to rule out them.