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JOE (Read 105813 times)

Started by JustNoPoint, June 12, 2014, 05:51:19 pm
Re: JOE
#21  June 15, 2014, 08:48:21 pm
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Re: JOE
#22  June 16, 2014, 12:34:30 am
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So I was thinking about how Sean said he night give Ghost Fade some different attacks.

After thinking the Ghost moves over at work I've made the following alterations.

Advancing Ghost (move that advances and ducks forward)
HCF + P - different distances press one of the following buttons at any point to cancel into attack
LP -  throw (grabs then headbutt)**
MP - Slash Elbow (over head)
SP - flurry punches (moves forward with a bunch of punches like Iced suggested)
LK - knee
MK - scythe kick (mid kick)
SK - sweep
EX - Faster and no CLSN2

Ghost Fade
HCB + P - different distances press one of the following buttons at any point to cancel into attack
LP - Quick forward elbow dash
MP - Jumping forward overhead Double Axe Handle
SP - flurry punches (moves forward with a bunch of punches like Iced suggested)
LK - knee
MK - scythe kick (mid kick)
SK - sweep
EX - Faster and no CLSN2

LP stopping the move is kind of redundant when you choose the distance by the button pressed so I removed it

All the kicks and the flurry punches would still be useful during a move that moves backwards. The throw and overhead elbow would not have been useful at all.
Re: JOE
#23  June 16, 2014, 05:05:59 am
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Updated Joe's air.

Remember, Ryu is our standard middle ground. I'm thinking he should walk slower. Quite a bit slower. His air game will not be strong but his ground game will. How should his jump be? Faster? Slower? Higher? Lower?

What all does stand.friction mess with? If it's only the opponent pushing you then maybe that should be much higher than Ryu's? Because he's so stout?
Re: JOE
#24  June 16, 2014, 10:31:53 am
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What all does stand.friction mess with?
Like yaccel, but instead of constantly accelerating you toward the ground, it constantly slows your X movement to 0. It's used when you have a dash with physics = S, a single velset at the start, and no other mean to decrease velocity, and it's also used when you're hit on the ground, after the hitvel is applied, it's what slows you down until you stop.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Re: JOE
#25  June 16, 2014, 11:01:38 am
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Nevermind then. That'd screw up a lot of stuff =p
Re: JOE
#26  June 17, 2014, 04:33:36 am
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Byakko, just to clarify that I'm doing the posadd, axis move method properly...

frame 1 has no movement
frame 2 moves 14 pixels over so x=14
frame 3 moves 4 pixels over so I move his axis in the air by 4 pixels to the right
frame 4 actually moves 42 pixels and as such goes through Ryu
so I split the 3 tick frame into 1 tick at 21 and the next frame is 2 ticks at x=21

Is this how it should be done? Or would I need to add the 4 pixels from frame 3 to frame 4/5? And is splitting frame 4 the best way to go with this? Also for the frames where I move the axis only do I need to adjust the push box width as well? So he'll push as he's moving from his axis?
Re: JOE
#27  June 17, 2014, 08:20:45 am
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Going through him isn't intentional right? I don't know what move you're doing. You can always make a pushback helper to prevent moves with a long animation that move from making you pass through. Jman has one in his Ken.

Disregard if I seem confused

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Re: JOE
#28  June 17, 2014, 10:13:38 am
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frame 4 actually moves 42 pixels and as such goes through Ryu
so I split the 3 tick frame into 1 tick at 21 and the next frame is 2 ticks at x=21
That sounds right.

Or would I need to add the 4 pixels from frame 3 to frame 4/5?
No, that'd be too much, frame 3 has its own posadd, there's no reason to delay that just to make the posadd on frame 4 bigger.
Also for the frames where I move the axis only do I need to adjust the push box width as well? So he'll push as he's moving from his axis?
The width generally doesn't need to be changed. In fact, the method I use (this whole "split the posadd in two frames and move the axis halfway on the first one" thing) is already to avoid changing the width. I toyed with doing it the other way around very early (that was back when I worked on my first character, Another Kyo, in the early 2000s), by enhancing the width just before doing a big posadd. The result was terrible because it pushed the opponent in a very weird way, and sometimes it even resulted in the posadd not being enough and whiffing after the width pushed the opponent too far.
In fact, splitting the posadd in two frames and moving the first frame's axis back is actually a way to "simulate" a bigger width on that frame, without wrecking the distance by pushing the opponent in a weird way, because readjusting the axis (instead of changing the width between two ticks) is only cosmetics and therefore, completely transparent coding-wise.

Going through him isn't intentional right? I don't know what move you're doing. You can always make a pushback helper to prevent moves with a long animation that move from making you pass through. Jman has one in his Ken.
It's a move where he takes a big step forward and punches. We want to prevent him from passing through the opponent during that big step. The helper works, but I don't really like using helpers everywhere. The "splitting the posadd" method seems a lot simpler to me. It's a bit weird to get the hang of it, but a helper seems overkill to me.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 10:16:54 am by DKDC
Re: JOE
#29  June 18, 2014, 06:50:18 pm
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Updated the 1st post. Alex also updated showing off Joe's new Kicks that Sean made!
I updated the move list with names and more descriptions of what the moves do.

We should start casting for a voice actor now! Anyone interested? Anyone know someone that might be interested? Joe is from the US. How should he sound? I'm thinking a tough Brooklyn accent myself.

And on to super discussion
Giving Up the Ghost
This move makes Joe do a flying body press type move that if misses causes him damage. But on hit he grabs them and headbutts them with his momentum then runs up their body, kicks off the opponent's head launching himself off and towards the side of the screen. He then jumps off the wall with a flying elbow drop on the now downed opponent. When he lands he hits he takes slight damage and rolls on the ground holding his ribs a bit. This move is unblockable

Max version simply doesn't cause Joe any damage

For all the Bryan Fury fans/requests out there this next super is for you guys
Out of Body Experience
Joe does a fast heavy gut punch and then lifts them up and slams them to the other side of himself. The opponent bounces back up and Joe does the spinning roundhouse from Bryan Fury and launches them toward the side of the sceen. This move can be cancelled from several other basics and specials that make him move forward

Max version
The gut punch continues to raise up similar to a dragon punch on hit or miss. Increases the damage if the opponent was on the ground but makes for a good anti air too.

I'm not fully sure where I stand on this super
"Driving up the stakes
he does a beer drinking anim, gains trailing afterimages and can combo easier after"

Since custom combos are a default thing how will this be different? Will it be more like Yun's Genei Jin where he gets infinite juggle points, and some move properties change like adding hits or becoming faster?

I also have an idea where all his basics get a "ghost" hit. For example I'd take his SP and copy it in the air with a new state number. I'd add a CLSN1 to the 2nd frame where no punch is even occurring.

Most basics would get something similar either before or after their original CLSN1. This extra hit would have it's own hitdef that would be duplicated from the actual move's hit def.

Once I figure out how this move will work I can imagine a max version. I kinda like the ghost hitting idea myself because it's unique. Maybe in game he can blink with a pal change on these frames.
Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 06:57:22 pm by Just No Point
Re: JOE
#30  June 18, 2014, 10:02:40 pm
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https://www.dropbox.com/sh/40jxw081j9vsx6v/AAAet0cumb0_WXejlF5EiYDea

All basics are finished. Most get hits are in now along with being aligned (I think)

The F+SP advancing hook punch looks odd at close range. Byakko, did I do the method you suggested correctly?

Spoiler: The code and air info in case you don't want to download him (click to see content)
Re: JOE
#31  June 18, 2014, 10:11:07 pm
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I was really hoping that since Driving Up the Stakes and Giving Up the Ghost are going to need unique animations, his third super could be made using sprites from his basics and specials. It would be easier on the already hefty workload, and (not counting SF4, where the Ultras are highly cinematic) Capcom does this for most of their super moves throughout the 2-D games.

It doesn't need to be an "auto-combo" but I'm sure something useful and interesting can be created using existing sprites.

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Re: JOE
#32  June 18, 2014, 10:21:57 pm
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Well, the 3rd super idea listed above would have no need for new sprites. If it's the Genei Jin or the extra ghost hit's I suggested. They both just tweak his current specials.

Also, that roll on the ground holding his ribs can be reused for the Flying Ghost. Only 2 supers have unique animations. The 3rd is like a custom combo
Re: JOE
#33  June 18, 2014, 10:30:20 pm
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No, I'm talking about the one called Out of Body Experience. It would need a unique animation of an uppercut that connects and then grabs the opponent and slams them to the ground. Along with the other two (Giving Up the Ghost is all unique animations, and Driving Up the Stakes is a unique animation of him drinking liquor/beer), that's three supers all containing unique animations, something Capcom almost never did in its  games.

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Re: JOE
#34  June 18, 2014, 10:48:05 pm
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For the drinking animation, you can reference Hwa Jai from KOF XIII. And for the uppercut part of Out of Body Experience, maybe you can find a moveset vid of Bryan for TTT2 that features his fisherman slam attack. I prolly read the discussion wrong, but I thought that these suggestion may help if you didn't know where to find some references.
Re: JOE
#35  June 18, 2014, 10:55:28 pm
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Have two bases.
Re: JOE
#36  June 18, 2014, 10:59:09 pm
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I linked to the references. The issue is just that it's making too many unique animations for Sean. He said he didn't mind all the attacks for ghost step but its kinda getting crazy at this point (not direct quote).

Which I understand. He's right. Typical SF would have a super crack kick, or super ghost step auto combo into all the attacks or something. They reuse animations in most super moves.

So it's not like I've never sprited before. I can make that particular super move. I want to be sure he has the Brian Fury moves because so many have asked for them and his current move set doesn't have any. Once all the sprites are finished there should be more than enough for me to make this animation. Frankenspriting and completely original frames.
Re: JOE
#37  June 18, 2014, 11:03:42 pm
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The F+SP advancing hook punch looks odd at close range. Byakko, did I do the method you suggested correctly?

Okay, yeah, the f+HP looks extremely weird. I think that when you split a sprite in two frames and moving one, you didn't move the correct frame, and then you skipped a posadd.

Let's take the transition from the first to second sprite, for example.

If I look at the current alignment of the sprites, if I wanted to make the posadd look good, I would need to move the second sprite -see X axis- 32 pixels forward. But that's too big, bigger than the width, and if the enemy is in contact with your width and is too small themself, a posadd of 32 pixels would slip past them - your axis would be sent behind their axis. so we split that sprite in two elements.

I'm adding an extra frame, where the one in the middle is moved forward a certain amount of pixels (here, 17). So if I still want the animation to look good, I want to move that sprite forward to reach the total of 32 I noted earlier. So on that second element, I use a posadd of 32-17=15. With both the offset and the posadd, the sprite will look like the left foot is still on the same spot it was on the first element.

Then, the third element is the same second sprite, but back to an X axis of 0 (as opposed to the axis offset of 17 above). My objective here is to have this left foot be in the same position it was in the first element (and the second). From the first element, I noted that I wanted a total posadd of 32 ; then on the second element, I used a posadd of 15 with an offset on the sprite of 17. This should have resulted in the left foot moving 32 pixels forward - so at the same spot it was in the first element.
Now, the third element needs to catch up, and it only needs a posadd of 17 pixels - the amount of the offset from the previous element.

... Looking at your constants, you use a width of 16, so I'll change all the above values to 16 (since 16+16=32 just the same as 15+17=32), but I'm keeping the description above so that it's more obvious where I use which value.

Likewise, on element 5 to 7, I wanted a total posadd of about 38, so element 6 has an X axis of 18 and a posadd of 20 (total 38, element 6 looks like it moves 38 pixels forward as I want it to), and element 7 has an X axis of 0 and a posadd of 18, so between elements 5 and 7, the total posadd is 38, which is what I want.
.... Yeah, 20 is still too big for the width of 16. To make it perfect, you can split it once more adding one more element.

Here's a quick fix for those two bits :
Spoiler: The AIR (click to see content)
(watch out, I moved the clsn2 boxes around a bit quickly when I moved the alignment of the elements I fixed, so you may want to take a second look at them)
Spoiler: the CNS (click to see content)
There's the same weirdness from elements 7 to 9, try to fix it the same way. Use the onion skin on the first frame (element 7) to move the next one (element 8 ) so that the  foot that's planted on the ground stays keeps its position, that gives you the total posadd, then split that in the same way I did.
Don't hesitate to use the pause key and then the scroll lock key to see the elements and at which point they move forward. You want to see the foot that's on the ground stay in the same spot all the time. Do that all the time for this stuff.

By the way, you've got alignment issues. In most animations, the left foot (viewer's right) is above the ground by a few pixels. You should align the sprites so that both feet touch the ground - in the stance, for example, the left heel needs to touch the ground.
If I struggled to the end of my determination, to the end of my way of life with my followers, if the result is ruin, then this ruin is inevitable. Grieve. Shed tears. But you cannot regret.
Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 11:13:06 pm by DKDC
Re: JOE
#38  June 18, 2014, 11:07:06 pm
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JNP wanted me to post my plans for the crouching and aerial basics. They're pretty straight forward but here they are.

Crouching

LP - Left jab
MP - The kidney punch-type move in his SF1 spriteset
HP - Uppercut Elbow, like Gill/Urien/Abel's cr.HP
LK - Right shin kick, good for pokes
MK - Slower, stronger version of LK (saves on animation, Capcom does this all the time)
HK - Sweep

Aerial

LP - Elbow, comes out quick, stays active for a long time
MP - Downward Punch
HP - Spinning Elbow, hard to describe but I have a clear picture in my head, kind of like Kyo's throw where he slams you and then elbow drops you, think the last part but as an aerial attack
LK - Knee, would sort of look like a Tiger Knee, could have a high hitbox, good for intercepting people mid air
MK - Left straight kick, would be his go to for cross-ups
HK - Here I would re-use the crack kick animation because it would be a good, strong air normal and would help with the work load, but now that it's a special move I guess I'll need a new kick, so I'll come up with something

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Re: JOE
#39  June 18, 2014, 11:14:20 pm
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You can reuse crack kick. It's also possible that some of the kicks from the ghost step would work good for it. Oh and you get to reuse the knee move for jump LK and ghost step's rising knee too!

EDIT: Byakko, thank you I'll take another look and apply the feedback.
Re: JOE
#40  June 18, 2014, 11:48:05 pm
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I animated the stance
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty