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Super Crazy Jam Season 3 (Read 5670 times)

Started by Wou Mugen, January 14, 2022, 05:20:01 PM
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Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#1  January 14, 2022, 05:20:01 PM
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Hi Guys
I come once again to release of the new season of super crazy jam.
with 4 new characters and 4 new stages (kazuya, kaede sol badguy and axel), apart from some details such as a cuter command list and screenpack adjustments.

link in description

Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#2  January 14, 2022, 06:06:17 PM
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Awesome!! Finally a proper kof version of Kazuya. Great work Wou.
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#3  January 14, 2022, 06:14:43 PM
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Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#4  January 14, 2022, 09:13:43 PM
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Hey, is this a compilation?
Those go in Mugen Discussion instead
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#5  January 14, 2022, 09:59:50 PM
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Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#6  January 14, 2022, 11:14:01 PM
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Awesome!! Finally a proper kof version of Kazuya. Great work Wou.

 :sugoi:

link in description

Or you can find it here:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/jtrjsm6iusy6sgr/Super+Crazy+Jam+-+Season+3.zip/file (HD)
https://www.mediafire.com/file/gb8anb8xq77is00/Super+Crazy+Jam+-+Season+3+-+Baixa+Resolu%C3%A7%C3%A3o.zip/file (lowres)

 :yesgoi:

Hey, is this a compilation?
Those go in Mugen Discussion instead

If this game is a compilation, I don't know what a fullgame is anymore  ;D  ;D  ;D

Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#7  January 15, 2022, 07:59:31 AM
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If this game is a compilation, I don't know what a fullgame is anymore  ;D  ;D  ;D
Yea, do you have have any idea how many people pass off their compilation as a full game?

This didn't look like anything special.
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#8  January 15, 2022, 08:05:30 AM
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Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 08:12:40 AM by Wou Mugen
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#9  January 15, 2022, 08:30:48 AM
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Yea, do you have have any idea how many people pass off their compilation as a full game?

This didn't look like anything special.

All the original character sprites in this game -- Leon, Logan, Sub-Zero, Kratos, Alex Kidd, etc. -- all those originals, Wou drew up himself and was assisted in coding. The other characters who are not original -- Ryu, Zero, Haohmaru, Demitri, etc. -- were modified accordingly to fit how the game plays. So while some character sprites aren't original, a lot of them are, and the gameplay is consistent.

I've followed this game's development since Season 1 (albeit quietly) and can safely say yes, this is a full game.
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#10  January 15, 2022, 08:51:58 AM
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Great work as usual!
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#11  January 15, 2022, 11:01:08 AM
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Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#12  January 15, 2022, 03:56:33 PM
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Do your best to become stronger. Become stronger, so you can do your best.

Mugen is a way for me to remain nostalgic with all of the dream matches I cooked up as a kid. It's also what I call a "Digital Action Figure Collection."
MaxBeta link=topic=155656.msg1876950#msg1876950 date=13867
Vegaz_Parrelli...also known as The Lord of the Rings.
[/quote said:
Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 10:54:34 PM by Vegaz_Parrelli
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#13  January 15, 2022, 06:14:46 PM
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did you get to watch the video?
did you know the project?
Yes
No

Still didn't seem that special to me except for like the newly sprited characters.


let's go to a checklist of what it takes to be a fullgame

exclusive characters = V
same graphic style of all characters = V
original stages = V
own screenpack = V
same combat system and gameplay for all characters = V
battle system with unique features = V
all chars hitdef with the same sprite and sounds effects = V
balance of all characters = V
all characters with intro and ending with integrated stories = V
boss who is part of history = V

what else do i need to do to make this project a fullgame?

I think neither "cards sagas" nor "hyper dragon ball z" much less "kof zillion or kof wing" are fullgames according to you
Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 06:45:38 PM by Wou Mugen
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#14  January 15, 2022, 08:51:16 PM
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Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#15  January 15, 2022, 10:11:49 PM
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Man, your work here is incredibly good!
The custom graphics for characters and stages make it awesome!

The gameplay is pleasing and fun.

Again, my only point would be about the idea these characters ar all kind of "shoto" equivalents in their own game.
But the result is very good!

Keep it up.
Do you have plans for next characters?
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#16  January 16, 2022, 01:31:54 AM
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lui

Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#17  January 16, 2022, 02:59:42 AM
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wou is the person who made these characters in the first place dark. they were made for this purpose. and the fact he is making MORE characters to fuel his game speaks on what the goal is here.
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#18  January 16, 2022, 03:01:24 AM
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This is a fullgame though lol I'm not sure what you're looking at but I see a game with characters in a consistent spritestyle and gameplay. Not sure where you're coming from with this being a compilation but it's obviously not.
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#19  January 16, 2022, 03:12:24 AM
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Man, your work here is incredibly good!
The custom graphics for characters and stages make it awesome!

The gameplay is pleasing and fun.

Again, my only point would be about the idea these characters ar all kind of "shoto" equivalents in their own game.
But the result is very good!

Keep it up.
Do you have plans for next characters?

thanks
i agree the chars are very similar a shotoo. but i promise that next chars will be diferent
I have two chars project
one I'm sure will be shown in season 4
the other will depend on the commission
I think neither "cards sagas" nor "hyper dragon ball z" much less "kof zillion or kof wing" are fullgames according to you
I put the former two on my tweet with my recommendations of Mugen Full games. But sure, let's go with that.

put my project too..
I promise you it's a fullgame :D
wou is the person who made these characters in the first place dark. they were made for this purpose. and the fact he is making MORE characters to fuel his game speaks on what the goal is here.

thanks bro
This is a fullgame though lol I'm not sure what you're looking at but I see a game with characters in a consistent spritestyle and gameplay. Not sure where you're coming from with this being a compilation but it's obviously not.

I don't think he saw much of the project
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#20  January 16, 2022, 06:59:52 AM
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Hey, is this a compilation?
Those go in Mugen Discussion instead

5 minutes of research on the topic at hand would've told you all that you needed man. If doing your own coding, ui, sprites, and stages, all made to fit the same theme and style, does not constitute a full game then I don't know what the hell does.
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#21  January 16, 2022, 07:36:31 AM
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I would have thought this problem was solved when seasons 1 and 2 were left up but let's go ahead and make it official

There is more than enough original work in these to consider it a full release

Enough discussion about whether it's a full release and more feedback
Nevermind, there's nothing I can do
Bet your life there's something killing you
It's a shame we have to die, my dear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time
What a way to go, but have no fear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time
It's a shame we have to disappear
No one's getting out of here alive
This time, this time, this time
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#22  January 16, 2022, 06:21:22 PM
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yes.. the more feedback the better
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#23  January 17, 2022, 12:20:33 AM
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Ask, and you shall receive.

I gotta say, I love the idea of a KOF Sol. But there are some hiccups I found with him that I should address.

Spoiler: Feedback (click to see content)

Besides this and Kazuya continuing his Rage Art (Lv. 2) even if his opponent isn't directly in front of him, I like the amount of effort that was put into the new characters.
ESPECIALLY Sol's sprites. You did an amazing job with him.

(Also big props for crediting SeanAltly in the def file, by the way!)
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#24  January 17, 2022, 01:03:03 AM
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Hey, Wou! Thanks for making consistent AI for your characters, that can be scaled down, so even scrubs like me can beat the game! One of the things, that bugged me about CVTW (as much as I adore it), is how all over the place AI was there, especially characters with outdated Kamekaze's AI. You've struck a fine balance by making it challenging, but not obnoxious.

Looking forward to Season 4!
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#25  January 17, 2022, 04:43:47 AM
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Ask, and you shall receive.

I gotta say, I love the idea of a KOF Sol. But there are some hiccups I found with him that I should address.

Spoiler: Feedback (click to see content)

Besides this and Kazuya continuing his Rage Art (Lv. 2) even if his opponent isn't directly in front of him, I like the amount of effort that was put into the new characters.
ESPECIALLY Sol's sprites. You did an amazing job with him.

(Also big props for crediting SeanAltly in the def file, by the way!)

thanks for your feedback.. i will fix this for the next season
Hey, Wou! Thanks for making consistent AI for your characters, that can be scaled down, so even scrubs like me can beat the game! One of the things, that bugged me about CVTW (as much as I adore it), is how all over the place AI was there, especially characters with outdated Kamekaze's AI. You've struck a fine balance by making it challenging, but not obnoxious.

Looking forward to Season 4!

thanks.. and soon more news
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#26  January 24, 2022, 01:13:58 AM
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Ask, and you shall receive.

I gotta say, I love the idea of a KOF Sol. But there are some hiccups I found with him that I should address.

Spoiler: Feedback (click to see content)

Besides this and Kazuya continuing his Rage Art (Lv. 2) even if his opponent isn't directly in front of him, I like the amount of effort that was put into the new characters.
ESPECIALLY Sol's sprites. You did an amazing job with him.

(Also big props for crediting SeanAltly in the def file, by the way!)

i fixed almost everything.
tomorrow i will release the updates.

thanks for your feedback
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#27  January 31, 2022, 07:30:30 PM
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This is incredibly fun. I have some general feedback notes.

System:
- A lot of throws seem to ignore if the opponent is in blockstun, for instance if you're Sol and do Close HP and they block, you can go into WIld Throw and it's impossible to escape. I tested this with Sol and Axel at least, and it seems to be a thing with them, so it might be cast-wide? Worth looking into
- Super cancelling in MAX mode works, but I do wish it worked like KOF02UM where Super cancelling into a super costs no additional meter. There's still a lot of creativity in the MAX mode combo routing thanks to the tag system and how it works on some chars, but more freedom wouldn't hurt!

Zero:
- He has an infinite involving his Air Buster Shot. It has a lot of hitstun, reducing it might be ideal, just to a value where he can't jump up and do an air normal and combo into it again.

Alex Kidd:
- The pogo attack has an excessive amount of hitstun and blockstun allowing for an infinite if you keep looping it.

Axel:
- His jump CD (Blowback) appears to combo into itself indefinitely, I think his grounded CD also works incorrectly and allows for juggles after when it shouldn't.

Kazuya:
- I think his pre-jump (anim 40) should be a little longer. 2 frames is a VERY small amount of time and it makes doing hops with him difficult. Might I suggest 4?
- 214HP (the electric punch launcher thing) is also an infinite when done into itself repeatedly. Additional recovery frames on it should keep the move good cause it has a number of followups anyways.

Sub-Zero:
- I have to suggest this one thing, Ice Clone might be a little too strong. I think being able to cancel into it on whiff from jump normals and all grounded actions is a bit much, I think if the only thing that changed was that you can only cancel into it from moves on hit it would be fine, just not on whiff.

Oh right, for some reason Ryu can't throw Alex Kidd when he has that buff that gives him 1 hit of invincibility, but everyone else can. Fixing this would help Ryu a lot in that matchup, it's probably just a small oversight.

My friend and I have definitely had a blast with this game, Zero is so good, maybe TOO good, but I didn't wanna focus on balance stuff here since there's still additional characters coming~

Also, to add on to the feedback: I think after blocking an attack, for about 6 frames or so after leaving blockstun (aka after State 151/153), invincibility to throws would be good! KOF was pretty generous about this too and it would line up with how the game approaches block situations pretty well.

https://twitter.com/TTTTTsd_/status/1488195459466231812 Just as an excerpt, I am so glad Sol's airdash counts as a special move this combo is sooooo cool

But are there truly grown men in this world?!
Last Edit: February 01, 2022, 06:29:55 AM by TTTTTsd
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#28  February 01, 2022, 03:13:14 PM
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This is incredibly fun. I have some general feedback notes.

System:
- A lot of throws seem to ignore if the opponent is in blockstun, for instance if you're Sol and do Close HP and they block, you can go into WIld Throw and it's impossible to escape. I tested this with Sol and Axel at least, and it seems to be a thing with them, so it might be cast-wide? Worth looking into
- Super cancelling in MAX mode works, but I do wish it worked like KOF02UM where Super cancelling into a super costs no additional meter. There's still a lot of creativity in the MAX mode combo routing thanks to the tag system and how it works on some chars, but more freedom wouldn't hurt!

Zero:
- He has an infinite involving his Air Buster Shot. It has a lot of hitstun, reducing it might be ideal, just to a value where he can't jump up and do an air normal and combo into it again.

Alex Kidd:
- The pogo attack has an excessive amount of hitstun and blockstun allowing for an infinite if you keep looping it.

Axel:
- His jump CD (Blowback) appears to combo into itself indefinitely, I think his grounded CD also works incorrectly and allows for juggles after when it shouldn't.

Kazuya:
- I think his pre-jump (anim 40) should be a little longer. 2 frames is a VERY small amount of time and it makes doing hops with him difficult. Might I suggest 4?
- 214HP (the electric punch launcher thing) is also an infinite when done into itself repeatedly. Additional recovery frames on it should keep the move good cause it has a number of followups anyways.

Sub-Zero:
- I have to suggest this one thing, Ice Clone might be a little too strong. I think being able to cancel into it on whiff from jump normals and all grounded actions is a bit much, I think if the only thing that changed was that you can only cancel into it from moves on hit it would be fine, just not on whiff.

Oh right, for some reason Ryu can't throw Alex Kidd when he has that buff that gives him 1 hit of invincibility, but everyone else can. Fixing this would help Ryu a lot in that matchup, it's probably just a small oversight.

My friend and I have definitely had a blast with this game, Zero is so good, maybe TOO good, but I didn't wanna focus on balance stuff here since there's still additional characters coming~

Also, to add on to the feedback: I think after blocking an attack, for about 6 frames or so after leaving blockstun (aka after State 151/153), invincibility to throws would be good! KOF was pretty generous about this too and it would line up with how the game approaches block situations pretty well.

https://twitter.com/TTTTTsd_/status/1488195459466231812 Just as an excerpt, I am so glad Sol's airdash counts as a special move this combo is sooooo cool

thanks for the feedback.
as soon as i get home i will fix things.
but they will probably only be ready for the next season.

I saw some of your videos, and I loved some combos you did, that I didn't even think of them  :bjugoi:
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#29  February 01, 2022, 03:32:28 PM
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thanks for the feedback.
as soon as i get home i will fix things.
but they will probably only be ready for the next season.

I saw some of your videos, and I loved some combos you did, that I didn't even think of them  :bjugoi:
No problem! I have some additional notes here. If you're wondering how I tested frame data, I just had the training dummy block, and then paused the game and held "Up" with both characters, using scroll lock to frame advance and see how much faster one character jumped before the other.

System:
- I think rolls should be largely universal. Some characters have better forward/backward rolls and others like Alex Kidd just have them worse. I think the distance and speed of the rolls can be different per character but I think they should be a uniform 33 frames of duration (most characters already have 33 frame rolls so I figured this would be the most sensible solution?)
- The input detection feels mostly ok, but I think specials and supers involving quarter circles are a bit too generous. It's tough to go from a crouching normal to a standing command normal (Axel Crouch Light Punch into his Double Kick, for instance).

Alex Kidd:
- Capsule C feels a bit too strong in my opinion. I think the idea is really neat, so I can only propose that it absorbs one PROJECTILE instead of just one attack period. The super should work similarly (invincibility to projectiles for its duration) simply because you can earn back the meter you spent on the super after you have it, so realistically the character can constantly make himself invincible to anything but throws in its current state and it's a little good.
- Both crouching light punch and crouching light kick could use additional recovery, probably match them up to the standing versions cause they're REALLY fast in comparison so they're just generally better? Also think the startup of his crouching light kick and crouching light punch could probably be swapped because his Crouching Light Kick being his fastest light normal while also having nearly the best range of them all is odd.
- The heavy version of Power Bracelet could use additional recovery frames. It's plus on block point blank (+3 even) and from really far distances its double digit! It could probably stand to be pretty minus if unspaced and + on block when used from certain distances.
- I think Capsule A's duration could probably be shortened a little bit, it lasts QUITE a long time. Would probably still be an amazing super if it lasted about half as long given what it does.

Zero:
- I think Far Standing Strong Punch should probably start up about 2 frames slower. It's REALLY fast, has an amazing hitbox, and is great on block. 4 frames of startup might be a bit too good for all that it does currently.
- All buster shots, air or grounded, could probably use a bit less blockstun and hitstun. They lead to really strong loops and generally just lock the opponent in place for a bit too long. I know I mentioned the air one in a post prior, but I feel like the grounded ones are similar. I think the charged up Buster can stay the same though, to keep the utility.
- Zero can cancel his Crouch Heavy Kick into command normals before it even connects (on whiff). Probably just a minor oversight. He can also juggle out of it which probably isn't intended behavior.

Demitri:
- Crouching Light Kick needs MUCH more recovery I think, like around 5-6 frames? It could probably start up a little bit slower too given its massive range.  In general I think his light kicks just could all use some extra recovery frames but Crouching Light Kick needs it the most.
- The hitbox on his fireballs should be shrunk to match other projectiles. It's really hard to roll past them sometimes and jumping over them is quite difficult as well.
- I think Bat Cover should start up just a little slower, like 1-2 frames. Everything else about it is fine, I like the risk/reward on it (it's awful on whiff but AMAZING in a lot of scenarios).

Lara Croft:
- Close Heavy Kick has no pushback on block. Kinda odd.

Logan:
- I think his divekick needs a bit more startup and more recovery, maybe a height restriction too of some kind? I imagine they could be tuned to work a lot like Seth from KOF 02UM, but as it stands right now they're pretty wild IMO, very safe and very good. They don't infinite on hit but without a guard cancel it's hard to get Logan off.
- Slide Kick is +12 on block which I just assume is an accident involving the blockstun, but figured I should mention it.

Sol:
- Crouching Light Punch has very little blockstun. Its hitstun is fine, but based on what I'm seeing it might be a case of the hitdef not having a guard.ctrltime value or something of the sort, since MUGEN (for whatever reason) defaults blockstun to the same value as the slidetime and not the hittime. It's weird, but I feel like that ended up happening here and it's made his crouch jab a little less safe than intended I imagine.
- Crouching Light Kick could probably stand to have about 2 more frames of recovery
- Crouching Heavy Kick is missing a hurtbox on its last recovery frames
- I think the Heavy version of Fafnir should have less recovery. It has more startup but the frames on hit/block are the same. It would be cool if it was like, kinda safe on block-ish and on hit it was more positive than the Light version, since comboing into it isn't really possible. It's meant to be some kind of frame trap I assume (just like regular Fafnir) so it would make sense to buff it up a bit. The Light version is fine though~

Axel:
- Same as the above with Sol, his Crouching Light Punch has the same thing going on, and his Standing Light Punch does too.
- Crouching Light Punch is REALLY plus on hit, might need a bit less hitstun? I'd say in return, you could let him rapid fire his crouch and standing jabs like other characters can, it's strange that he can't
- Light Tiger Knee's hitbox is kinda big, I think it could be matched up to the Heavy version and would be a lot more reasonable.

Sub-Zero:
- Ice clone should probably go away if Sub Zero gets hit out of the move, since the Ice Clone helper appears on Frame 1 it's impossible to actually punish him for doing it next to you.
- Crouching Light Kick only cancels into one of his special moves, I imagine allowing him to cancel into the others would be ok here too? If Ice Clone is gonna be nerfed I feel like he could have a good low confirm.
- His air fireball makes him completely invincible, probably just a case of a missing hurtbox.

Kazuya:
- I think all of his light normals that aren't Standing Light Kick could probably stand to have a couple extra recovery frames and their blockstun looked at. Crouch Jab seems...unintentionally high in terms of frame advantage.

Kratos:
- Nemean Cestus Punch should probably extend Kratos's hurtbox out a bit more. I've noticed the Blue clsn seems to dip backward and it makes the move really hard to actually challenge.
- Nemean Cestus Punch should also have a touch more recovery as it's a little safe on block for what it is.
- Crouching Light Kick should probably have a bit more startup and recovery for its reach

Lucy:
- I think she's fine, but I do think some of her light normals should start up a bit faster. Her fastest is Frame 5, and most characters have a Frame 3 normal in this game. She should probably have at least one, or maybe a F4 one?

Hanzo:
- I think his Close Strong Punch should have a more generous activation range.

Tag mode:
- I've noticed you can tag in on block, but it doesn't cost any meter? It probably should cost 1 bar, considering you can't tag on block if you don't have 1 meter anyways. I think it'd balance out doing stuff like Kyo's invincible move > tag, or really any of the DPs in the game into a tag.

This feedback was all gleaned from the cumulative efforts of my friend and I after a shared like 4-5 hours of straight up match-play and probably an additional 3-4 hours of me practicing the game on my own time.

As for the combos, yeah, the system is really freeform. At first I thought Sol's airdash was just a cute little nod, but the moment I learned it was considered a special move in MAX mode the gears in my head started turning. It's super fun.

Any character I didn't mention I either forgot something important maybe or just think they're perfect already. Generally the only consistent thing across the cast is just, checking the recovery of certain light normals and the blockstun so they're not a little TOO plus/good.

I look forward to seeing what you add in next. This project is immensely cool, and I think the aesthetic being consistent across the entire roster just makes it that much more interesting and fun. It also just gets people interested, KOF Kratos just as a concept is super unique and intriguing to people, I cannot count the number of times I've had to link the release video cause someone's definitely just asked WHAT IS THIS I NEED TO TRY IT as a result of how nice it looks.

But are there truly grown men in this world?!
Last Edit: February 02, 2022, 12:12:49 AM by TTTTTsd
Re: Super Crazy Jam Season 3
#30  February 06, 2022, 01:24:26 PM
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You've done an amazing job with all the sprite work. :thumbsup: It's a shame I wasn't around to see the release of most of these characters.

Some quick observations:

System
- Some things are misplaced in 4:3 aspect ratio. Maybe you should just disable those resolutions (if Ikemen allows that)
- "Exit" option in Training mode does the same thing as "character select" (Ikemen bug?)
- The "Ikemen must restart to enable these changes" (or something) message when you change video resolution is disabled
- Must be an Ikemen bug, but if you bring up the Menu and then use the Pause button, the game is unpaused with the Menu still active

Sub-Zero
- Ice "fireball" Clsn1 is too big. It's hard to jump over it

Haohmaru
- Has no tag out animation

Ryu
- Denjin Hadouken stunning even if blocked is too cheap
- Correct name for "Seichuu Nidan Tsuki" is Kyuubi Kudaki (the former is the SFA3 elbow attack). Also F+a is an odd command for it, is there a reason?

Logan
- Voice volume is lower than other characters
- Fatal Claw could use playerpush = 0. Also has the wrong command in the movelist
- Screen flashing in Berserker Barrage X kind of hurts my eyes (may apply to other moves in the game)
- Level 2 Berserker Barrage X feels just a little too long

Zero
- His CD attack only hits on the first active frame, so the range isn't as intended
- Some of his command attacks have the same name as Ryu. Not sure if intentional
- Chain Rod is not listed in the movelist
- I understand why you made Chain Rod not cancel from normal attacks, but that feels odd and there are other ways to prevent infinites
- Seems weird that "Evoke Friend" pauses the game, being a special
- "Shoot Enemy" seems the same for weak and strong versions

Kratos
- Army of Hades right away feels like the strongest move in the game. It's too good
- Blade of Olympus does 21 hits and feels like it plays the hitsound 21 times simultaneously
- Does Rage of the Titans have any weakness?

Alex Kidd
- His Level 3 is one of the neatest things I've seen in Mugen. :) But I think it should use a timerfreeze assertspecial (may apply to other long moves in the game)