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Vortigon from Chaos Faction (Read 8889 times)

Started by DeluxeGamer705, November 03, 2023, 09:43:28 pm
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Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#1  November 03, 2023, 09:43:28 pm
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I've been thinking about sharing a character of mine here, and here it is.
This is my version of Vortigon from Chaos Faction. He is a six-button character who features some moves from the game, notably from Chaos Faction 2.

You can get him here: https://sites.google.com/view/dxgsmugensite/characters

Any feedback is welcome, obviously.  ;D


Also known as "BartekZioomPro" (crappy name, I know).
Playin' Mugen since 2017, creating content since 2022.
Last Edit: November 03, 2023, 09:51:18 pm by DeluxeGamer705

N_N

Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#2  November 04, 2023, 04:59:33 am
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This was a nice surprise. I used to love messing around with Chaos Faction so I'm pretty glad someone made a character from that game. That said he does need some work. I tested him out for a bit and here's what I found:
- Straight Down Stomp is an infinite in the corner if you time it right.
- Ninja Star is also an infinite with good timing
- Ninja Star and Sniper Rifle miss up close
- His super sparks seem to be invisible.
- The projectile on Ninja Star seems to be affected by cornerpush which doesn't look too good.
- Flamethrower doesn't do chip damage
- The Flamethrower projectiles shouldn't have shadows
- The super portrait isn't actually bound to the screen (at least not on 1.0).
- The supers give power back
- His voiceclip PlaySnds don't use "channel = 0", meaning they can overlap with each other

Here are some other thoughts:
- Flamethrower doesn't look very good, specifically the way he shoots out like 50 helpers at once. I feel like it could be simplified into a smaller set of helpers. I also feel like the projectiles should be able to go in more than one direction.
- I think Rage Ability could use more effects. Maybe a shockwave effect when he punches the ground?
- A little hard to explain, but his moveset feels kinda... samey? Two of his specials (the ninja star and the missile) for the most part function the same, and two of his other specials (the rifle and the plank) also feel very similar to each other. Maybe give them some more unique properties? I will say that the missile's explosion damaging the opponent no matter what is a good start.
- Speaking of, Plank Swing feels kinda useless. It's basically just a normal with extra startup.
- It feels kinda weird that all his hard punches knock down the opponent because they don't look like they should. Not to mention the opponent can instantly tech from the knockdowns so it feels even more weird.

That said though, he's pretty decent overall, and I definitely feel there's potential here. I recommend studying other characters' movesets if possible in order to get a better sense of move variety. I'd be interested in seeing an update to this someday.
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#3  November 04, 2023, 08:33:36 am
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Thanks for feedback. Here's some of my responses:

Quote
- Straight Down Stomp is an infinite in the corner if you time it right.
- Ninja Star is also an infinite with good timing
Judging from the infinite involving Straight Down Stomp, maybe I should make the move not as a OTG or attempt to slightly incrase its endlag? Maybe increasing endlag for Vortigon when he throws Ninja Star will get rid of its infinite too.
Quote
- Ninja Star and Sniper Rifle miss up close
I don't really understand that...  :???:
Quote
- His super sparks seem to be invisible.
You mean the "pos" coding? I don't really use it, but judging from it, maybe I could make the superpause use it.
Quote
- The projectile on Ninja Star seems to be affected by cornerpush which doesn't look too good.
Maybe I could attempt to make some changes to it so maybe Ninja Star wouldn't be affected by it.
Quote
- Flamethrower doesn't do chip damage
Since it basically fires 60 projectiles, I thought it would be a bit too overpowered, which is why I didn't give it any chip damage.
Quote
- The Flamethrower projectiles shouldn't have shadows
I'll try removing them.
Quote
- The super portrait isn't actually bound to the screen (at least not on 1.0).
I'll try to fix that too.
Quote
- The supers give power back
Judging from that, I guess I should make it so that no power is given when Vortigon uses any of his hypers.
Quote
- His voiceclip PlaySnds don't use "channel = 0", meaning they can overlap with each other
I wasn't sure what the "channel = 0" thing means, but now I get it. I'll try to add it to fix this issue.
Quote
- Flamethrower doesn't look very good, specifically the way he shoots out like 50 helpers at once. I feel like it could be simplified into a smaller set of helpers. I also feel like the projectiles should be able to go in more than one direction.
So I should tone down the amount of projectiles from 60 to 20 or 25? Also, I don't really know how to make it so that the projectiles could go in more than one direction, so I'm not really sure if I could do something like this.  :(
Quote
- I think Rage Ability could use more effects. Maybe a shockwave effect when he punches the ground?
I might try adding such thing.
Quote
- A little hard to explain, but his moveset feels kinda... samey? Two of his specials (the ninja star and the missile) for the most part function the same, and two of his other specials (the rifle and the plank) also feel very similar to each other. Maybe give them some more unique properties? I will say that the missile's explosion damaging the opponent no matter what is a good start.
I've tried to make them a bit slightly different, such as the ninja star being also possible to be used in the air and be an OTG, while the missile isn't and can be only performed while standing (also, the ninja star causes no knockdowns, while the missile causes hard knockdown no matter if the opponent is airbone or not). Also, sniper rifle causes hard knockdown too, while plank causes soft knockdown, but I tried to make it slightly different.
Quote
- Speaking of, Plank Swing feels kinda useless. It's basically just a normal with extra startup.
So, should I replace it with a different move, or lower its startup a bit, or maybe even try to incrase its range?
Quote
- It feels kinda weird that all his hard punches knock down the opponent because they don't look like they should. Not to mention the opponent can instantly tech from the knockdowns so it feels even more weird.
I think removing the code that causes soft knockdown could fix this weird stuff.

Quote
That said though, he's pretty decent overall, and I definitely feel there's potential here. I recommend studying other characters' movesets if possible in order to get a better sense of move variety. I'd be interested in seeing an update to this someday.

Thanks. I'll try with this. Once again, thanks for feedback.  ;D


Also known as "BartekZioomPro" (crappy name, I know).
Playin' Mugen since 2017, creating content since 2022.
Last Edit: November 04, 2023, 12:19:49 pm by DeluxeGamer705
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#4  November 04, 2023, 09:09:20 am
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Hey, this was a trove treasure what we have! Great character, besides I've played this flash game before.
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#5  November 04, 2023, 10:11:31 am
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Uh oh.
I've ran into a problem with Flamethrower.
I've removed its shadows by replacing the "Helper" coding with a regular projectile coding, but there's a problem - it now only hits one opponent instead of two at once. I tried to remove the projectiles from Flamethrower's shadows when it was still a helper-based move, but I couldn't do it, so despite the regular projectile coding fixing it, I broke it by making it hit only one opponent instead of two.  :shocked2:
I'll still try fixing it though.

Hey, this was a trove treasure what we have! Great character, besides I've played this flash game before.

Thanks! I've also played Chaos Faction before (in fact, I played Chaos Faction 2 before playing Chaos Faction 1), and both were awesome! ;D



Also known as "BartekZioomPro" (crappy name, I know).
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Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#6  November 04, 2023, 12:16:05 pm
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I've removed its shadows by replacing the "Helper" coding with a regular projectile coding, but there's a problem - it now only hits one opponent instead of two at once. I tried to remove the projectiles from Flamethrower's shadows when it was still a helper-based move, but I couldn't do it, so despite the regular projectile coding fixing it, I broke it by making it hit only one opponent instead of two.  :shocked2:
I'll still try fixing it though.
You don't need to swap the flamethrower's helper code. You can put AssertSpecial state controller into flamethrower's helper code and use noshadows flag, while also turning on ignorehitpause in the same AssertSpecial state controller.
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#7  November 04, 2023, 12:32:01 pm
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I've removed its shadows by replacing the "Helper" coding with a regular projectile coding, but there's a problem - it now only hits one opponent instead of two at once. I tried to remove the projectiles from Flamethrower's shadows when it was still a helper-based move, but I couldn't do it, so despite the regular projectile coding fixing it, I broke it by making it hit only one opponent instead of two.  :shocked2:
I'll still try fixing it though.
You don't need to swap the flamethrower's helper code. You can put AssertSpecial state controller into flamethrower's helper code and use noshadows flag, while also turning on ignorehitpause in the same AssertSpecial state controller.

It now works fine! Thanks!


Also known as "BartekZioomPro" (crappy name, I know).
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N_N

Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#8  November 04, 2023, 04:48:53 pm
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Thanks for feedback. Here's some of my responses:

Ay no problem. I like giving feedback to creators since I feel each one has potential, newer ones especially. I'd be happy to help with any questions you might have.

Quote
I don't really understand that...  :???:
- The moves won't hit if you're too close to the opponent. (I tested them against KFM, it might be different with other characters.) This can be solved by adding a Width sctrl (in the case of both moves) or by extending the red hitbox further inward (in the case of the rifle).

Quote
You mean the "pos" coding? I don't really use it, but judging from it, maybe I could make the superpause use it.
- I was referring to how the superpause calls for an "anim = 3000". Thing is, the superpause sctrl pulls the animations from fightfx.air unless specified otherwise. Most people's fightfx don't have an animation numbered 3000, which makes it invisible. (For reference, the super sparks are typically anims 100-102.) Though if you wanted to make it invisible that's fine too.

Quote
Since it basically fires 60 projectiles, I thought it would be a bit too overpowered, which is why I didn't give it any chip damage.
- That's understandable. I'd prefer if the projectiles each did a tiny bit of chip but I can see your reasoning.

Quote
Judging from that, I guess I should make it so that no power is given when Vortigon uses any of his hypers.
- Pretty much. Adding "getpower = 0,0" to the hitdefs on Rage Ability and the Flamethrower projectiles should solve things.

Quote
I wasn't sure what the "channel = 0" thing means, but now I get it. I'll try to add it to fix this issue.
- Yeah it's not a necessary fix (especially considering most of his voiceclips are too short for this to really be an issue), though it'd be nice

Quote
So I should tone down the amount of projectiles from 60 to 20 or 25? Also, I don't really know how to make it so that the projectiles could go in more than one direction, so I'm not really sure if I could do something like this.  :(
- Here are some ideas I had regarding Flamethrower:
   - instead of making him shoot out helpers every frame you could make him shoot out helpers, say, every 3rd frame. Here's a quick comparison I made:
      - You would have to adjust the damage and whatnot, but I think it would look much better this way and still give you the desired effect.
   - As for making the projectiles go in more than one direction, I was thinking you could maybe have them randomly go up and down a little. Try replacing "velset = 4,0" in the projectile state with something like "velset = 4,ifelse(random%2, -0.5, 0.5)". You might have to adjust the Y vels a little, but that should give you a good idea of what I mean.

Quote
I've tried to make them a bit slightly different, such as the ninja star being also possible to be used in the air and be an OTG, while the missile isn't and can be only performed while standing (also, the ninja star causes no knockdowns, while the missile causes hard knockdown no matter if the opponent is airbone or not). Also, sniper rifle causes hard knockdown too, while plank causes soft knockdown, but I tried to make it slightly different.
- You bring up some fair points, admittedly I hadn't looked into his moveset too much when I made my post. Now that you mention it the projectiles are mostly fine. Though I still think they could be changed up a little. One idea I had is to maybe make the ninja star go in a slight arc?
   - As for the other two moves I brought up, they feel very similar to one another in that when you break them down they're just "wait a bit and Vortigon knocks down the opponent while staying in place". This is also another reason why I feel Plank Swing is kinda useless, it's slower than the rifle and doesn't cause a hard knockdown either.

Quote
So, should I replace it with a different move, or lower its startup a bit, or maybe even try to incrase its range?
- Some ideas I had in mind regarding making Plank Swing better:
   - make it send the opponent into a wallbounce state (KFM has some states you can use as reference for this)
   - give it better range (maybe make Vortigon move forward a little when he does the move)
   - possibly decrease the startup by a couple frames?
   - Of course you don't have to do all of these, but it'd help give the special some more purpose.

Glad to help, and again if you have any more questions feel free to ask. I think you have something good going on here.
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#9  November 04, 2023, 05:07:16 pm
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Quote
Quote
I don't really understand that...  :???:
- The moves won't hit if you're too close to the opponent. (I tested them against KFM, it might be different with other characters.) This can be solved by adding a Width sctrl (in the case of both moves) or by extending the red hitbox further inward (in the case of the rifle).

Ah, I see. Good choice.  :neutral:
Quote
Quote
You mean the "pos" coding? I don't really use it, but judging from it, maybe I could make the superpause use it.
- I was referring to how the superpause calls for an "anim = 3000". Thing is, the superpause sctrl pulls the animations from fightfx.air unless specified otherwise. Most people's fightfx don't have an animation numbered 3000, which makes it invisible. (For reference, the super sparks are typically anims 100-102.) Though if you wanted to make it invisible that's fine too.

I've just realized that earlier today. I have changed the "anim" coding from 3000 to 102 and now the super spark appears without any problem.

Quote
Quote
Since it basically fires 60 projectiles, I thought it would be a bit too overpowered, which is why I didn't give it any chip damage.
- That's understandable. I'd prefer if the projectiles each did a tiny bit of chip but I can see your reasoning.

I've made a few changes for it. They will be explained below.

Quote
Quote
Judging from that, I guess I should make it so that no power is given when Vortigon uses any of his hypers.
- Pretty much. Adding "getpower = 0,0" to the hitdefs on Rage Ability and the Flamethrower projectiles should solve things.

Good choice.  :)
Quote
Quote
I wasn't sure what the "channel = 0" thing means, but now I get it. I'll try to add it to fix this issue.
- Yeah it's not a necessary fix (especially considering most of his voiceclips are too short for this to really be an issue), though it'd be nice

Oh, ok.
Quote
Quote
So I should tone down the amount of projectiles from 60 to 20 or 25? Also, I don't really know how to make it so that the projectiles could go in more than one direction, so I'm not really sure if I could do something like this.  :(
- Here are some ideas I had regarding Flamethrower:
   - instead of making him shoot out helpers every frame you could make him shoot out helpers, say, every 3rd frame. Here's a quick comparison I made:
      - You would have to adjust the damage and whatnot, but I think it would look much better this way and still give you the desired effect.
   - As for making the projectiles go in more than one direction, I was thinking you could maybe have them randomly go up and down a little. Try replacing "velset = 4,0" in the projectile state with something like "velset = 4,ifelse(random%2, -0.5, 0.5)". You might have to adjust the Y vels a little, but that should give you a good idea of what I mean.

Good choice about that  "velset = 4,ifelse(random%2, -0.5, 0.5)". Also, I've already done a few changes to it by lowering the amount of projectiles from 60 to 20, and although Vortigon still fires it every frame, the "time" in the animation when Vortigon fires it has been changed from 1 to 3, making him fire very slightly later.

Quote
Quote
I've tried to make them a bit slightly different, such as the ninja star being also possible to be used in the air and be an OTG, while the missile isn't and can be only performed while standing (also, the ninja star causes no knockdowns, while the missile causes hard knockdown no matter if the opponent is airbone or not). Also, sniper rifle causes hard knockdown too, while plank causes soft knockdown, but I tried to make it slightly different.
- You bring up some fair points, admittedly I hadn't looked into his moveset too much when I made my post. Now that you mention it the projectiles are mostly fine. Though I still think they could be changed up a little. One idea I had is to maybe make the ninja star go in a slight arc?
   - As for the other two moves I brought up, they feel very similar to one another in that when you break them down they're just "wait a bit and Vortigon knocks down the opponent while staying in place". This is also another reason why I feel Plank Swing is kinda useless, it's slower than the rifle and doesn't cause a hard knockdown either.

Ninja Star going into a very slight vertical distance sometimes exactly? Also, I could try doing some changes for Plank Swing (will be explained below too).

Quote
Quote
So, should I replace it with a different move, or lower its startup a bit, or maybe even try to incrase its range?
- Some ideas I had in mind regarding making Plank Swing better:
   - make it send the opponent into a wallbounce state (KFM has some states you can use as reference for this)
   - give it better range (maybe make Vortigon move forward a little when he does the move)
   - possibly decrease the startup by a couple frames?
   - Of course you don't have to do all of these, but it'd help give the special some more purpose.

Wall bounce from Plank Swing? Going slightly forward with lowered startup? Good choice! In fact, I've done that before with two of my characters I released some time before Vortigon's development has even started.  ;D

Quote
Glad to help, and again if you have any more questions feel free to ask. I think you have something good going on here.

Thanks. :mhappy:


Also known as "BartekZioomPro" (crappy name, I know).
Playin' Mugen since 2017, creating content since 2022.
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#10  November 04, 2023, 05:31:59 pm
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Good work on Vortigon! Chaos Faction is one of my childhood games and I'm glad someone is giving attention to it.

I have some thoughts for his gameplay:

- Normals should chain into each other more, like for example, I can't chain light punch to light kick but I can with air light punch and air light kick. Kinda weird ehhh

- Sniper Rifle should have more range or something, it feels pointless to me since you have Ninja Star and Missile Shoot that can do better

- Plank Swing is completely useless, N_N already mentioned that but honestly there's no point in using that move in a fight wowee

- Personal opinion of mine, I think Rage Ability should feel more of an earthquake super by changing the hitbox like this:



I don't think there's anything else to point out since N_N took care of the rest, but I'd still say you did a good work! Keep it up!
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#11  November 04, 2023, 05:41:53 pm
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Good work on Vortigon! Chaos Faction is one of my childhood games and I'm glad someone is giving attention to it.

I have some thoughts for his gameplay:

Oh hey! Chaos Faction is also one of my childhood games, and I sometimes play it even to this day just to bring some memories back. Those were times.  ;D
Anyways, now for the answers for feedback:

Quote
- Normals should chain into each other more, like for example, I can't chain light punch to light kick but I can with air light punch and air light kick. Kinda weird ehhh

Hmm... maybe I could try something like this? It could improve his comboability a bit!

Quote
- Sniper Rifle should have more range or something, it feels pointless to me since you have Ninja Star and Missile Shoot that can do better

I've tried doing it by making it easier to connect when close to the opponent, but maybe I should also increase it by making the sniper rifle's red line longer and extending the hitbox to be the same width as it? (yes, the hitbox is based on the width of the red line that appears on frame 2)

Quote
- Plank Swing is completely useless, N_N already mentioned that but honestly there's no point in using that move in a fight wowee

I've gave it a few changes by making it cause hard wall bounce instead of soft knockdown and lowered its startup a bit. Oh, he also now moves forward a little.

Quote
- Personal opinion of mine, I think Rage Ability should feel more of an earthquake super by changing the hitbox like this:

Hmm... I don't remember it being an earthquake move in Chaos Faction 2, but I might try making it to be like this, unless someone suggests to leave it as it was before.

Quote
I don't think there's anything else to point out since N_N took care of the rest, but I'd still say you did a good work! Keep it up!

Thanks! ;D


Also known as "BartekZioomPro" (crappy name, I know).
Playin' Mugen since 2017, creating content since 2022.
Last Edit: November 05, 2023, 08:23:34 am by DeluxeGamer705
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#12  November 04, 2023, 05:49:24 pm
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Quote
Hmm... I don't remember it being an earthquake move in Chaos Faction 2, but I might try making it to be like this, unless someone suggests to leave it as it was before.

I barely remember anything from the games since I haven't played them for ages, feel free to prove me wrong tho!
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#13  November 04, 2023, 06:04:59 pm
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Quote
Hmm... I don't remember it being an earthquake move in Chaos Faction 2, but I might try making it to be like this, unless someone suggests to leave it as it was before.

I barely remember anything from the games since I haven't played them for ages, feel free to prove me wrong tho!


I've checked it out, and it wasn't. When I performed the rage ability where the character slams the ground, the opponent could only be hit when close (but they didn't have to be exactly in the front!). So I tried to recreate it for Vortigon.


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Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#14  November 04, 2023, 07:38:27 pm
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I approve.
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#15  November 06, 2023, 04:03:47 pm
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Vortigon has been updated to v1.1!
Here's the changelog:


- Tried to remove an infinite involving Straight Down Stomp and Ninja Star.
- Flamethrower's projectiles no longer have shadows.
- Speaking of Flamethrower, it now causes chip damage and its amount of projectiles has been lowered from 60 to 20. Also, Vortigon fires the flames very slightly later, with each flame going up or down a bit instead of just forward.
- The Hypers no longer give Power if they connect.
- Vortigon's voicelines now play randomly when he performs any of his Normals and Straight Down Stomp.
- The super sparks are now visible when Vortigon is about to use a Hyper.
- Plank Swing has been modified:
-- Vortigon now moves forward a little when he swings the plank. Distance varies depending on the button pressed.
-- Instead of causing soft knockdown, it now causes hard wall bounce.
-- Its startup time is slightly shorter.
-- However, the pausetime when it connects has been slightly increased, with the pausetime for Vortigon's opponents being lowered. This was due an attempt to try to eliminate an infinite that was created by it.
-- It now pushes opponents into a slightly longer distance.
- Ninja Star and Sniper Rifle should now be easier to connect when Vortigon is just in front of the opponent.
- Vortigon's comboability is now better - he is now able to cancel all of his Normals into different ones. The best way is via the "zig-zag" pattern.
-- However, due to this, all of Vortigon's Normals' damage output had to be lowered to prevent any overpowered combos.
- Sniper Rifle's range has been increased a bit.
- Strong punches no longer knock down the opponent.

Make sure you re-download him on my Mugen site. Enjoy!  :)


Also known as "BartekZioomPro" (crappy name, I know).
Playin' Mugen since 2017, creating content since 2022.
Last Edit: November 18, 2023, 02:59:26 pm by DeluxeGamer705
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#16  November 27, 2023, 08:43:22 pm
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Vortigon has been updated to v1.2!
Changelog:

- Missile Shoot's missile and flamethrower's projectiles are no longer affected by guardpush.
- Various A.I. changes.
- Flamethrower's startup is now shorter.
-- Speaking of Flamethrower, its projectiles' position was made more closer to the firing spot (or whatever), making them easier to
connect when close.

Make sure you re-download him on my Mugen site. :)


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Playin' Mugen since 2017, creating content since 2022.
Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#17  November 28, 2023, 02:08:29 pm
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Vortigon has been updated to v1.2.1, fixing an oversight where the explosion from Missile Shoot's missiles was still affected by guardpush if the opponent hit it and the explosion's hitboxes managed to hit the opponent. Sorry about that! :)


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Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#18  January 01, 2024, 12:05:47 pm
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For the start of 2024, Vortigon has been updated to v1.3!
Changelog:

- Vortigon's comboability has been expanded; now Vortigon can cancel his standing strong kick (regardless of which hit) into crouching
light punch.
- All of Vortigon's standing and crouching normals (with the exception of his crouching strong kick) push the opponents into a shorter
distance to make them easier to connect.
- Tried to remove another infinite involving Ninja Star, where Vortigon could trap his opponent in the corner if he cancels his punches
into stronger ones and then into Ninja Star with good timing.


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Re: Vortigon from Chaos Faction
#19  February 04, 2024, 08:00:06 pm
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Another update, this time v1.4!
Changelog:

- Changed the damage dampener.
- The amount of Sniper Rifle's variations has been lowered from 3 to 1, since the animation was the same for every variation. Also,
its startup has been lowered, and the hitbox was made slightly more closer to Vortigon's hurtboxes.
- Vortigon's normals now push opponents into further distance.
- Adjusted the A.I.
- The hyper portrait now binds to the screen.
- Flamethrower's startup has been lowered, allowing it to combo from his standing and crouching normals.
- It is now possible to cancel Vortigon's light and medium normals into specials and hypers.


Also known as "BartekZioomPro" (crappy name, I know).
Playin' Mugen since 2017, creating content since 2022.