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SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update (Read 47281 times)

Started by Sean Altly, January 16, 2012, 11:57:27 PM
SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#1  January 16, 2012, 11:57:27 PM
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So I've been working on a big update for SHADEs 2 that I'm just referring to as SHADEs 2.5. I'm posting the planned updates here, and also looking for any suggestions or any other problems that people may have found that I haven't addressed yet or don't list here.

MAJOR CHANGES/ADDITIONS:

-The addition of a new, fully playable character, Dark Nation.
-Two new stages, one for Dark Nation, and a new version of the destroyed Maddicorp Lab for Omega Kane.
-More EX Characters, possibly one for every character except Dark Nation. Right now, the definite additional EX characters are:
  -EX Kane Kelly (referred to as Omega Kane)
  -EX Exile
  -EX Ruckus
  -EX Sabotage
  -EX Zenith
-New Final Boss, the aforementioned Omega Kane. He has new supers, altered specials, and is faster. He also has a lower life value to offset his advantages.
-A cinematic sequence before the Omega Kane battle showing Kane transforming into Omega Kane.
-Character-specific win quotes for everyone. Not just a few either, every character has a unique win quote for every other character.
-New DM indication system, where instead of the character flashing, the little round part at the end of the lifebar flashes. Solves a lot of PalFX problems I was having.
-Hopefully, all of the AIs will be finished as well. Kamekaze recently had me send the latest update to him so he could start working on them again.

I'd like to make a new title screen as well, but this depends on time and if I can get any help with the graphics. I know the "2" is hard to see, so rather than have to make new versions of that image, I'd rather just make a new title screen altogether.

CHARACTER SPECIFIC:

-Fray has been greatly nerfed. She has longer recovery from her counters, more startup and recovery on most of her specials, including the Energy Grenade, a smaller hitbox on the explosion part of her Energy Grenade, and a lower life value. She needed this badly as she was an extremely frustrating character to fight for many people.
-Det. Laurel's Sudden Impact now hits downed opponents. Several people suggested/requested this, so I added it.
-Sabotage and EX Wyldestar had several aerial attacks that weren't set to be high/overhead attacks. This has been fixed.
-Range increased on EX Wyldestar's Star Shine attacks.
-Adamas has less envshake on heavy attacks and less envshake on his landing states.
-Byrne has slightly longer recovery on several specials, as well as some additional start-up on several normals.
-Ruckus' Asai Moonsault is now an overhead.

There are more changes/additions, mostly minor, but I can't remember them all right now. I will change/edit this as necessary. Please tell me if I missed something vital or if you wanted to suggest any balance changes or point out any bugs.

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Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 10:50:07 PM by SeanAltly
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#2  January 17, 2012, 01:03:44 AM
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Hype, and I'll be around to look over this one as well, by next weekend I think it's fair to say that I'll probably shit out another matchup overview for SHADES 2 Vanilla, even if it did take a million years.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#3  January 17, 2012, 04:32:56 AM
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Hello Seanaltly, just a question, will you make even more original spritework on characters such as Thirteen and Ruckus to differentiate them even further from the chars you based them on?

Don´t mean to be rude, i like many of your creations, specially Snow. Respect
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#4  January 18, 2012, 02:05:30 AM
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Well, all the spritework is original, it's the animations that get borrowed from other characters, and unfortunately I am not good at making original animations. So, if I did give them different animations, they would still have to come from some other character. So to be honest, I probably won't, at least not for the SHADEs 2 update.

That's not to say certain characters won't get new animations or new moves in SHADEs 3, though. For instance, I plan on completely respriting Moses Maddigan to give him an updated look. The current Moses sprites are probably the worst looking of the bunch, so I'm taking the opportunity to give him a new outfit since I'll be making new sprites anyway.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#5  January 18, 2012, 02:56:37 AM
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Really? I think Maddigan looks pretty good, honestly the characters that look worse are either Specialist or Vesper. I don't know, but I feel it's the face. Just looks a bit odd to me compared to the rest of the characters, might be me though.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#6  January 18, 2012, 05:06:39 AM
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Omega Kane Will Probably be one of the most Challenging Bosses yet!

will there be like a Dark Aurora always following him?
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#7  January 18, 2012, 10:04:30 PM
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Well, all the spritework is original, it's the animations that get borrowed from other characters, and unfortunately I am not good at making original animations. So, if I did give them different animations, they would still have to come from some other character. So to be honest, I probably won't, at least not for the SHADEs 2 update.

That's not to say certain characters won't get new animations or new moves in SHADEs 3, though. For instance, I plan on completely respriting Moses Maddigan to give him an updated look. The current Moses sprites are probably the worst looking of the bunch, so I'm taking the opportunity to give him a new outfit since I'll be making new sprites anyway.

Just as a general idea, how drastic of a change to Moses' outfit were you planning to make? I, personally, think his current duds make him seem like a more iconic villain. I could find his suit in a department store and immediately think, "That's Moses. Hope he doesn't kick my ass when I fight him next."
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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#8  January 18, 2012, 10:37:02 PM
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Nothing too drastic. The idea behind the planned outfit change is that he's becoming more obsessed with capturing the subjects and thus less concerned with his appearance. The outfit would be a button down shirt that's unbuttoned down to his chest, an unbuttoned blazer/suit jacket, slacks and dress shoes. He'd use his right hand more as well. It's just supposed to be an evolution of the character.

Snow is also getting slightly updated sprites. He'll be getting a few new animations to set him further apart from Robert. Snow is based on my appearance, and I recently cut my hair short, and I wanted to change him to reflect that. He will have a new move or two, and will be even more serious. This is also an evolution of the character, since he's become more furious with Maddigan and Maddicorp for driving Chad In Black away. His vest and pants will be color separated, and his vest will be two toned. I'm going to post a SHADEs 3 thread soon with more info on Snow and Maddigan's changes, as well as info on the planned and possible new characters for SHADEs 3.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#9  January 19, 2012, 01:41:01 AM
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Sounds like a pimpin' Moses
SHADES ver. 2012
#10  January 19, 2012, 04:53:34 AM
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Sexy. I think Ruckus should have the honors myself, to me he's always looked like he belonged in KOF but that might just be shading. Anyway I owe you on Saturday and I'm certain I'll deliver. Keep up the good work man
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#11  January 19, 2012, 05:09:37 AM
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He will have a new move or two, and will be even more serious. This is also an evolution of the character, since he's become more furious with Maddigan and Maddicorp for driving Chad In Black away.

Ahh, so that ending is canon?
Well shoot.

But yeah, the changes sound pretty neat.
Although speaking of endings, please tell me that Fray's isn't true.
:I
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#12  January 19, 2012, 05:32:12 AM
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Nah, the only "canon" endings are Kane's, just because the explanation for the Entity is true, Chad In Black's, since she won't officially be in SHADEs 3 (though she'll probably be in as a hidden or bonus character), Wyldestar's, since she won't be interested in Byrne anymore, and Byrne's, because it lays the groundwork for why Kane has to be weakened to team up with him. Everything else is just explanations or fun stuff.

Sexy. I think Ruckus should have the honors myself, to me he's always looked like he belonged in KOF but that might just be shading. Anyway I owe you on Saturday and I'm certain I'll deliver. Keep up the good work man

Well, he was the first character I gave the extra colors too when I decided that the old sprites needed updating. I was still working out the style then. Also, really looking forward to more write-ups, they will help greatly with future updates.

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Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 10:29:11 AM by SeanAltly
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#13  January 19, 2012, 06:13:15 AM
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Will one of the New Characters Be like a Huge Or Buff Guy?

Huge Like Hugo Or Abubo or Zangief?
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#14  January 19, 2012, 06:17:51 AM
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Yeah, in the SHADEs 3 thread I posted, I talk about a new character called Castle, who will be a big guy.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#15  January 19, 2012, 07:15:57 AM
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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#16  January 19, 2012, 10:28:56 AM
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It was, I got them mixed up.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#17  January 19, 2012, 08:49:49 PM
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Cool...

Will there be a vid of Castle?
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#18  January 19, 2012, 10:49:47 PM
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I never said it anywhere, but Shades 2 was seriously epic in every respect. Glad to hear there's more coming.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#19  January 20, 2012, 12:24:52 AM
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Cool...

Will there be a vid of Castle?

Not for a while, I haven't even started him. He's planned for SHADEs 3, so he's a ways off. I still need to make SHADEs 2 as good as possible and put some work into CvTW.

I never said it anywhere, but Shades 2 was seriously epic in every respect. Glad to hear there's more coming.

I really appreciate that, thanks. Definitely more to come, it's what I got into Mugen for.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#20  January 20, 2012, 05:03:59 AM
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Yeah, forgot to say that this game is great, and that you pulled it off well.

Although is it odd that I'm encountering EX Snow more than regular Snow.
In fact, I don't recall encountering him at all. :S
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#21  January 20, 2012, 05:12:28 AM
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That's because some characters weren't included in the order select since they don't have updated AI.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#22  January 21, 2012, 09:45:07 AM
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Oh ok.

The Character Known as "Dark Nation"... he sounds like a worthy opponent.

And Omega Kelly Kane (EX K.Kane) he reminds me of orochi

what else new fighters will we see in SHADES 3?
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#23  January 21, 2012, 10:13:41 AM
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There's a SHADEs 3 thread right next to this one. There's info on more characters there.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#24  January 24, 2012, 08:21:21 AM
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When it comes to balancing the roster keep in mind that nerfing one person only makes another better. I'm not saying don't nerf anyone but keep in mind its also about the players learning how to adapt and deal with matchups. I personally feel that's the problem with people today lol. Patches are so easy to do that people can easily keep yelling nerf pls instead of learning how to deal. But I'll be spending some time with these chars adjusting AI and what not and I'll be sure to give you my personal opinion of their changes.
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#25  January 24, 2012, 08:56:59 PM
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Its only the completely out of hand characters that he's nerfed like Chad in Black and Fray. With the rest tho I think he's done a fine job of balancing personally
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#26  January 24, 2012, 09:01:35 PM
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Yeah, I mean, Wyldestar and Det. Laurel will be getting some buffs too. I know it's nearly impossible to do, but I'd really like my game to be very well balanced in the end.

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Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 09:20:52 PM by SeanAltly
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#27  January 24, 2012, 09:13:32 PM
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good luck on the update sean, can't wait to check it out when your ready to release :)
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#28  January 24, 2012, 09:18:17 PM
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well fray was a sub boss, so her being good really wasn't that big of a deal to me. I knew how to beat her so I never really had a problem. I KNOW chad was very good as I told sean that months ago lol
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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#29  January 26, 2012, 05:02:44 AM
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Well, when I was working on Chad's moveset for SHADEs 2, I kept looking at it as the type of moveset that would be hard to master, but if it was, would be extremely useful. I figured she would have a high learning curve with high reward. For some reason, AI not having to deal with learning curves never really occurred to me until later on. The AI didn't need to memorize the commands properly and the locations that Lost Soul/Dead Rising appear and so on. That was the problem I think. Most people that I've talked to say they have a hard time learning to play well with Chad, but then you see the AI tearing ass and what not. Anyway, she definitely needed nerfed.

Fray, while intended to be a sub-boss, was not intended to be as annoying as she ended up being. It didn't have anything to do with the AI either, it was that her moveset is TOO good. She has those projectiles that cover multiple distanced and areas, PLUS the counters. Even characters with counters like Geese and Rock have those easily avoided ground skimming projectiles. Plus, Cazaki pointed out how hard it is to deal with Ups and Downs, along with a command grab to punish you even if you can get in close, and you end up with a moveset that has no real weaknesses. I'm going to have to really evaluate her moveset and see if I can modify it to be more fair without changing her too radically. Because honestly, how many characters do you see that have multi-directional projectiles, Geese-style reversals for every situation, AND a command grab? That's really all my fault for trying too hard to cover every base and ending up covering them too well.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#30  January 26, 2012, 12:08:07 PM
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It's great to see you back in action pondering changes to a fantastic release.

Best of luck to your update.  :sugoi:
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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#31  January 26, 2012, 01:45:35 PM
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Great news, guess sooner or later i have to update the review article
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#32  February 02, 2012, 04:00:04 AM
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Is every character and stage from S.H.A.D.E.s of Manhattan 2.5  getting fixed, balanced, and/or updated?
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#33  February 04, 2012, 07:44:39 PM
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All the characters that need balance tweaks will get them. I think it's just the Maddigan Office stages that need fixing, where they cut off a bit on the top, but that's an easy fix that I might have done already, I just can't remember right now. There will be two new stages, Omega Kane's alternate version of the Maddicorp Lab, and a completely new one for Dark Nation. It will also include my favorite stage from SHADEs 1, Chase the Express.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#34  February 05, 2012, 02:41:53 AM
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It will also include my favorite stage from SHADEs 1, Chase the Express.

I can't wait to have that back! Always loved Robot Rock blaring in the background while I beat up on the Specialist.
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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#35  February 05, 2012, 06:58:18 PM
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It already is on the normal Shades 2 game. :P
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#36  February 06, 2012, 03:27:41 AM
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Is it really? I totally forgot I already had it in the game, whoops. Maybe I'll include another stage from SHADEs 1 then. Any suggestions?

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#37  February 06, 2012, 04:59:09 AM
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Is it really? I totally forgot I already had it in the game, whoops. Maybe I'll include another stage from SHADEs 1 then. Any suggestions?

Is Adamas' stage from SHADES 1 in SHADES 2?

The market one, I forget what it was called.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#38  February 06, 2012, 05:00:47 AM
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It's called "Gypsy Part of Town," and no, the only stage from SHADEs 1 that's in SHADEs 2 is Chase the Express.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#39  February 06, 2012, 05:08:44 AM
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A lot of those stages we bad to be honest, I honestly think the only good ones were Chase the Express, Gypsy Part of Town, and Moses' stage. Actually the under the bridge ones weren't too bad, I think the night version might also be worth a good mention.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#40  February 06, 2012, 05:10:19 AM
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 >:(

My favorites were the Under the Bridge ones, although I know the people in the daytime version clashed badly.

Also, I don't see what was bad about most of them since many of them were almost completely taken from other games, like the ones from Rage of the Dragons (The Noise Factory, At the Drive In), the one from SVC Chaos (Hollowed-Out Hallowed Grounds),  X-Men vs SF (Big Rotten Apple, Sewer), and so on. I know they had clashing art styles, but viewed individually, I don't see what was bad about any of them.

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Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 05:15:01 AM by SeanAltly
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#41  February 06, 2012, 06:18:45 AM
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So which characters were you planning on giving sprite fixes? I think Vesper's head, specially her chin, should be fixed a little. Unless she's supposed to have a big chin that is.
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#42  February 06, 2012, 09:25:30 AM
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Well, for SHADEs 2.5, I probably wasn't going to really do anything with sprites. Mostly code stuff, plus the new character snd stages, and finished AI. Vesper and Zenith will probably get a few touch ups in SHADEs 3 though.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#43  February 08, 2012, 12:09:39 AM
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So with all that said can you tell us what the EX characters will be like, or perhaps how far along you are with 2.5? Or perhaps I've asked too many questions
Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#44  February 08, 2012, 01:11:22 AM
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Well, as you can see from the ones in SHADEs 2 already, the EX characters are different versions with moveset changes and such. The EX characters usually use existing sprites, just to be clear, because if I have to make new sprites for them, I'd rather make a whole new character. That doesn't mean that I never make new sprites for them though. I just only do it when needed. As far as specifics, I can tell you the following about the ones I've made already, spoiler'd since it's a big wall of text:

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Anyway, as far as progress on the update goes, all that's really left to do is EX Zenith and the storyboard explaining Kane's transformation into Omega Kane. Kamekaze is working on finishing the main cast's AIs so that the arcade mode will have mor evaried fights. Dark Nation is done and might get a solo release soon.

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Re: SHADEs of Manhattan 2.5 - Plans for a Big Update
#45  February 08, 2012, 02:07:07 AM
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The new DM has no name yet and is a very SNK-ish full-screen super where he creates a ton of energy pillars. Think of an even bigger, longer lasting version of EX Adamas' Diamond Uprising DM. Don't worry, it's not too cheap, it doesn't do a ton of block damage and can be seen coming. But if it hits, it does decidedly boss-esque damage.

How's "Abaddon" sound for this bad boy?
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