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Death Battle (And sprite fight animations) (Read 1472440 times)

Started by Long John Killer, April 09, 2015, 03:59:16 AM
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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2441  November 17, 2020, 06:13:15 AM
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But Barbara isn't peak human so not much help determining how exactly much worse Batgirl is to Batman and how that compares to a real world peak human.  Either or, likely a great deal less than someone from the Spider Family.
I mean, she is considered peak human. Peak human just means "anyone who is a street-level superhero"; there's a tacit understanding that they all have absolutely perfect, Olympics-worthy bodies. It's a narrative conceit to help justify how a single person can beat up dozens of people all by themselves, with not much basis in reality.

Now, there could be variance in that category—like maybe it turns out Batman can bench press more than Nightwing or something, but that doesn't make one of those two peak human, and the other not.

Only thing I can offer there is if Death Battle wants to be consistent with its previous episodes that they claim that the average peak D.C. human is superhuman when compared to reality, likely in the Captain America.
This is where I think they get too into the weeds with analysis (but then again, it's also necessitated by the very concept of the show, so it might be unavoidable): all of that is an absurd way to look at things. No one making a DC book (or reading one) is gonna think "well I gotta remember that Green Arrow is a DC universe human and that means his body is slightly superhuman so he should be capable of running a mile in a minute", even if that very same book has them do something similarly impossible. And I dunno, taking that kind of approach feels like it violates the core concept of these kinds of "who would win in a fight" scenarios. When you get that far deep/off with the analysis, maybe it's best to take a pause and think about what you're really arguing.

It reminds me of some of the arguments on the old Comic Book Resources forum, in the board made for these kinds of matchups. I distinctly recall multiple people, in multiple threads, arguing very sincerely that Cassandra Cain Batgirl (the one who was raised without spoken or written language, and thus instead had all the language centers of her brain trained on body language, making her one of the absolute best hand to hand fighters in DC) had lightspeed level reaction times, because there were panels they could post of her dodging bullets well after they had already been fired (and other insane shit that I can't recall), as well as other crazy assertions. In particular, this kind of overly-analytical argumentation led to this one matchup that I will never, ever forget: where someone genuinely and unironically argued that given all this, Cassandra Cain could beat up 10,000 Stormtroopers, if she was placed in a huge arena with all of them attacking her at once.


I made sure to save this image that someone else made, who was trying to underline how completely and utterly unhinged this all was. Like sure, Cassandra Cain routinely did stuff in her comic that no human on Earth would ever be able to accomplish. But trying to extrapolate all those insane feats as being plain and simple facts, and to argue that you are supposed to read the Batgirl comic and come away thinking that the title character is superhumanly fast and strong, it's all just too much. At their core, "who would win in a fight" arguments are the kind of childish sort of arguments that no one should take too seriously, because you can't really do serious, detailed analysis on any of this, or it all falls apart. But then again, that is the point of this show, so I can't blame them too much; I just think when they start throwing around some of the more bizarre conclusions like this one about DC humans being superhuman, they gotta take a step back and just let things slide.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2442  November 26, 2020, 01:32:50 AM
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Oracle



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Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2443  December 01, 2020, 10:28:57 PM
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And the episode's out.



Next match is Sanji vs Rock Lee and unless they pull some more third-hand power scaling like they did for Might Guy then Sanji wins hands down.  His raw strength, speed, and endurance easily outstrip what Lee's capable of on his own, and that's without even factoring the Raid Suit he got on Whole Cake Island.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2444  December 02, 2020, 04:14:42 AM
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So I've said prior my experience with both series is limited.  Sanji's case I dropped out paying attention somewhere mid-Crocodile Dude sand villain arc and Rock around Shippuden's start.  My knowledge on the two extends to that Sanji would rather kill himself before hurting a woman, same goes for using his arms or hands in combat because "You don't use the same tools you use to cook as you do to fight" or something along those lines of reasoning, and general internet osmosis he gained fire superpowers because I guess he ate a devil fruit as well because Luffy's crew are not the brightest bulbs in the shed.  Rock's case is just his complete disregard for ninja magic instead for complete physical superiority.  But Naruto fanbase osmosis as well seems to be the consensus is he never did better than his early peak fighting Garra.  I do not know how straight-forward that correlates stat-wise, or just he dropped off in plot-relevant excellence like that series' Piccolo.  I'm inclined to believe the latter because it's shonen, 2000's King of All Shonen at that, that's how they work.

So on that note....what the hell correlates the two?  Rock doesn't use any magic, let alone fire magic.  Sanji voluntarily handicaps himself, let alone Rock's whole core of his believe is pushing to be all you can be and beyond.  There's also a bit of an age gap between them, unless I drastically mistook Sanji's age at the beginning of One Piece and he's actually, like, 16.  Is it just they're the physical combatants of their respective groups?  That doesn't quite fit when you have Luffy on Sanji's side and Rock's has (had) Neji, plus I'd assume he doesn't absolve from using the basic kunai everyone uses?

Curious what the threadline between the two are, because I never pictured the two together.
Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 04:17:56 AM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2445  December 02, 2020, 05:05:11 AM
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I'm guessing the connection is "chivalrous martial artist;" Purely physical combatants with a strong code of honor.

Also the Diable Jambe isn't a devil fruit power, it's a technique where he basically kicks fast enough that his leg heats up to the point of combustion due to air friction.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2446  December 02, 2020, 06:12:12 AM
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Both of them are as accomplished in the martial arts as well as the trade of simping.

They also have non-standard eyebrows (per their resoective series) and similar backgrounds; Sanji was later revealed to be a genetical engineering failure that should have super powers like his siblings.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2447  December 04, 2020, 09:30:19 PM
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Huh, I never considered Sanji's eyebrows as an intentional standout feature per the series beyond a French stereotype the likes you'd find in a Mickey Mouse or Warner Bros. cartoon.  I thought that's all it was, manga likes to flaunt stereotypes, Sanji was just Super French anime man Pepe le Pew.  Also forgive me but I don't recall Rock being a huge ladies man.  I mildly recall him having a schoolboy crush on Sakura and kicked Sasuke's teeth in over jealousy, but that was it.  But then my experience is from reading over a decade ago and don't recall much beyond the big Garra fight anyways.

Sanji kicking faster than the speed of sound sounds.....ridiculous for a regular non-superpowered cook, but again, shonen, power creep is notorious and I only knew the guy when he was a bus boy and they were dealing with Oda's fusion of Mask of Zorro with Nicholas from Trigun ruining their ocean-sailing restaurant and making a fool out of Zoro.
Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 09:34:07 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2448  December 06, 2020, 04:16:28 AM
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You're not wrong to not remember much beyond the big Gaara fight because he really didn't do anything particularly noteworthy for the rest of the entire series.  He had like half a fight against that bone ninja guy, and then got shunted into being a background filler character just like every other character who wasn't one of the Trio of Terrible Protagonists.

Also, the flaming kick move used to be even more ridiculous pre-timeskip; it used to be he would spin in place to incite friction burns like a boy scout starting a campfire.  Yeah, One Piece is a lot of unapologetic nonsense but that's why I love it.

Spoiler: Something that might legitimately spoil the outcome (click to see content)

:EDIT:  Curly brows.



and Bushy brows.

Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 11:33:16 PM by Person Man
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2449  December 14, 2020, 09:11:07 PM
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There's the full thing.

Next episode's the season finale.  Hulk versus Broly.  Judging by the the shot of the actual animation of the fight, Super Broly from the latest movie.

So....this is going to be a short video on Broly's part if they stick to canon, and an immediately discreditable one if they lump DBZ Broly into Super Broly for a composite.  For those not in the know, DBZ Broly wasn't ever canon, but a hugely popular character from DBZ's time of popping out a bunch of OVAs.  DBZ Broly's powerset is not ever really fully explained and about 50% headcanon, such as his physical immunity to damage outside his stomach scar made shortly after birth.  But the OVAs themselves contradict canon lore and timeframes rather harshly.  Now, they do fit better with DBZ the anime with filler, because they tie in events from there, especially DBGT.  But then, DBZ Kai and Super's whole point of existing is to retroactively erase their importance to the series.

Super Broly also only exists entirely in one movie.  The manga even went out of its way to sum up the movie's events and importance in a single page panel and tell us to move on, nothing to see here.  But power-wise by simple comparison to those he fights in the movie (Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, Gogeta) and by Goku's word of mouth of him being above Beerus, he's ridiculously higher leagues above DBZ Broly.  And DBZ Broly rather effortlessly blasted away a quarter of the universe, Super Broly matched SSJG Vegeta's universal+ level rather early on and just kept going on and on from there to the point Broly and Gogeta accidently went to a separate dimension to keep their battle in check.

So in short, unless Hulk's got some REAL big boosts that I've missed since the Doomsday episode, there's going to be a whole lot of more interesting history to talk about for Hulk, maybe three lines for Broly that are canon, but the power gap is ridiculous even just going from their simplest base human/Saiyan form to their next level of power. (Super Broly matched SSJ Vegeta then freaking SSJG Vegeta in, what, 2 minutes of not a damn clue what he was even doing?)

I suppose Hulk's greatest helping factor is the never-ending on again, off again debate of Toriyama and co. just picking a lane if Saiyans can breathe in space or not.  DBZ Broly sure doesn't mind, DBZ filler and DBGT don't.  Super recently brought it up again about Goku and Vegeta sufficating out in space in the Moro arc.....presented by Vegeta, the unreliable narrator.  So who knows which side they'll pick on that one.
Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 09:14:51 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2450  December 14, 2020, 10:19:58 PM
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Unless it's world breaker hulk then rip hulk
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2451  December 14, 2020, 10:52:49 PM
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They are probably gonna scale him to Beerus from Galaxia fight,which can destroy the universe and then say that dragonball universe is larger than ours,in case they do that,does Hulk have any feats that can give him the edge? I wonder if they get One Below All stuff included in Hulks feats,dont remember what they actually were
Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 10:56:29 PM by BurningSoul
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2452  December 14, 2020, 11:22:57 PM
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So I have not read this One Below All stuff before, but I have just now browsed a bit of his stuff on the wiki, and that would seem to fall under DB's "No outside help" guideline.  Feats from forces outside Hulk's control should not count for much beyond establishing a plausible limit to his growing strength and what timeframe that would require to reach that point.  Which....if from what I'm reading is correct, is some billions of years.  Not to mention if this One Below All isn't also granting Hulk some form of boost whilst in control of his body.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2453  December 15, 2020, 03:03:52 AM
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I would describe the One Below All interfering with the fight not as "outside help" but instead "outside malice" because it's very much not on the Hulk's side, but yeah. They are totally distinct entities, and it's not even a situation where the Hulk is dependent upon the One Below All for power or whatever (in the way Juggernaut's power source is coming from the Elder God Cyttorak, for example). The full extent of the relationship between Gamma mutates like the Hulk and the One Below All is still somewhat ambiguous, but from what been shown so far in Immortal Hulk hasn't really been anything that would help the Hulk in this fight. Nothing new, at least : the World Breaker stuff from an earlier run is still probably Hulk's best bet for this fight.

That is unless they somehow are able to justify using the Hulk shown in the flash-forward in Immortal Hulk #25: where it's the universe that comes after the current Marvel universe. The Marvel universe as we know it is merely the latest iteration of a universe that has been lived and died many times before; it goes through a big bang -> big crunch -> big bang cycle. The previous version of the universe is where Galactus comes from: as Galan of Taa, he was the last thing alive in his universe and was thus chosen to survive into the next (where he was reborn as Galactus). In Immortal Hulk #25, it shows a potential future where that has happened to the Hulk; this future Hulk killed the other competitors (Franklin Richards, Mr. Immortal, etc.) who were "supposed to" be the last things alive in the universe and thus become the new Galactus-type entity of the next iteration of the universe, but Hulk instead has stolen that role and gained those powers instead. In that next iteration, this cosmic Hulk is known as the "Breaker-Apart"—and unlike Galactus—destroys planets recklessly and without reason; it's completely unstoppable, leading to some of the last survivors of its rampage to send a warning message backwards in time to the previous universe to try and prevent the Breaker-Apart's existence.

That entity would probably outmatch most anything from DBZ, but that thing isn't actually the Hulk in any way, shape, or form: it's a hollowed out shell of the Hulk, possessed by the One Below All. The One Below All probably has vast cosmic powers of its own, but it's basically locked up forever in a hell dimension or whatever, and so it needed the Hulk to get the big Galactus power upgrade; it couldn't just possess the Hulk and give it its own powers. Moreover, the steps to grant the Hulk those cosmic powers literally took the lifetime of an entire universe, and also required the Hulk to first become possessed by the Leader (working for/with the One Below All). It's unclear at what point the One Below All personally takes over the Hulk's body from the Leader since the current arc of the comics is literally in the midst of this Leader-possesses-Hulk storyline, but the One Below All is definitely in control by the time of the next universe; there will probably be some very involved process of prepping Hulk for possession by it or something. Long story short, turning the Hulk into the Breaker-Apart is not something that could just be done in the middle of a fight as a powerup or whatever.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2454  December 21, 2020, 05:03:42 PM
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So are other fight shows still a thing here or is this now solely Death battle content

Because we missed a few XvX fights on Hyuns dojo's channel

Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2455  December 21, 2020, 10:14:16 PM
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I have no grievances with posting them, that's the point of the thread.  There's just less to say about them or discuss the finer points of their results than Death Battle in general.  Just "Oh, that's cool of them".

But to contribute for something non-Death Battle, I've taken a liking to Hyourinjutsu's strictly Dragon Ball related versus videos.  Does Super's content better than Dragon Ball official does.  He manages to make me interested in Goku Black, something the anime failed at.



Oh right, also, Hulk's preview is out.



And now Broly's.



So yeah, outright fusing the two, down to saying they're the same guy in different circumstances.  Hah, no.  DBZ Broly sure as hell doesn't get no Ikari state.  And I sure hope they're not planning on compositing Dragon Ball Heroes' SSJ4 Broly into Super's Ikari.  Fair enough to say to this one isn't creditable already, regardless who wins.
Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 11:20:19 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2456  December 23, 2020, 11:18:08 PM
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OH MY GOD HE'S SO GODDAMN COOL



Looks like they're using DBS Broly as the baseline here.  I haven't been following Super at all so IDK how much that one differs from the original recipe.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2457  December 23, 2020, 11:30:00 PM
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Quite a fair bit.  DBZ's non-canon status stretches the whole character's existence, so along with his showings in his two movies (Bio-Broly doesn't exactly bring much to the table.  It was a failed clone in every way) giving him your basic base form, SSJ1 and his exclusive Legendary form, various spin-off media has thrown SSJ2, SSJ3 and SSJ4 at him.  Super doesn't get 2 through 4, but he does get Ikari, basically the canon replacement for SSJ4's reconnection with Oozaru minus acknowledging GT's existence.  He does have a Legendary form, minus the limitless power growth, so.....hell of a lot that helps?  The power growth just seems to be inherent to Super Broly's existence outside of his green haired form, so not much it offers outside recognizable fan service in existing.  But his Ikari form matches post-ToP Goku and Vegeta's Blue god forms, and outright turns Goku's ki against him, so, he's ridiculously more powerful than the Broly from Z.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2458  December 23, 2020, 11:47:39 PM
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They did mention that in Super, Broly is a *little* more sympathetic, but he still has absurd levels of power... He took down both SS Blue Goku and Vegeta with relative ease.

The biggest difference between Z and Super versions of him is that while the Z version of him is nothing more then a berserk monster, the Super version of him doesn't want to fight unless he has to.

Another thing to add is his 'Wrathful' state - Which is basically taking the strength and power of a Saiyan in Giant Monkey Form and shoving that into an actual Saiyan.
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2459  December 28, 2020, 07:29:48 PM
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Anyways, here's the full thing.



Yeah.....got a number of issues with it, but whatever at this point.  Amused they skipped over the space survivability question and physical invulnerability question altogether for Broly, considering Dragon Ball's back-and-forth with those.

Got some teasers for next season at the end.  I see Cloud, Luke Skywalker and Steven Universe.  Can't place the others immediately.

Well, the obvious go-to for Cloud is Link.  They've commented for years on the previous one being a poor example of a Death Battle episode prior, most viewers I'm inclined are to agree.  It was a level 99 Dissidia Cloud with base starter equipment versus every Link fused into one with every item from all the games at once that he could not have.  Plus it was also strangely condescending to both FFVII fans and Legend of Zelda fans, so I dunno who wins in the end with that episode?  I'd hope this will be FFVII Cloud up to Advent Children with nods to FFVII Remake's additions versus OoT-MM Adult Link with his gear through those two adventures and what can be gleamed from Twilight Princess of his elder years.  And give them their actual freaking stuff, your Master Materia, your Fierce Deity Mask, etc.

Luke's a bit more vague.  They already did Harry Potter as movie pop culture's leading stars for generations.  Will have to wait and see what they plan for him, as is it can go in any number of directions.

Steven Universe....cool, we're getting another Aang situation.  Except he has willingly killed in the past.  Well, the two I would place him for are Finn the Human or Star Butterfly.  I can comment on Adventure Time stuff, I know jack about Star vs The Forces of Evil, other than it too is inspired by Sailor Moon to the point of being a knock-off.  And people also hated its ending akin to World War III.  But that appears to be a common trend in cartoons these days, I guess.

I mean, there's also the way out there idea of Steven versus Phos from Land of the Lustrous, due to its numerous comparisons to SU, but I imagine they don't have the resources for that in either 2D or 3D.  Also that'd be on Carnage vs Lucy levels of weird match-ups.
Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 08:21:35 PM by Long John Killer
Re: Death Battle (And sprite fight animations)
#2460  December 28, 2020, 10:54:24 PM
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I'm not really feeling that calculation of base goku being able to destroy the universe,it was combined power of goku and beerus colliding so I think actual strength should be divided into 2,and goku was only keeping up with beerus after he dropped from god form to a ssj,if his base was strong as his god form,once he went ssj he should have been stronger but it was the same as before ,so I think the final measurement also should have bene divided by 50 since its the SSJ multiplier to get the base form output.So I think broly was kinda buffed.